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So I would really like some C&C on this I know its just an image not the actual model. I just wanted to get some feed back on the VDR rules and the feel and look of the tank before I made it. If the feedback is good if not go back to the drawing board.

FLUFF
Long story short the Predator Eradicator was built in small numbers when the Dark Angels Task Force on Vraks found their tank crews getting caught in a more traditional tank combat role. The standard Destructors lacked the penetration power with auto cannons to fight Traitor Legion Leman Russ battle tanks. The Predator Annihilators faired little better in the small urban areas the tanks were eaten alive with small confined spaces and thier long range weapons that they had. Thus the Eradicator was built. The solution was that Dark Angel techmarines mounted a predator destructor(autocannon) on top of the up armoured Vindicator. The powder charge was increased to 3 times the size of the normal autocannon round. (which you can see in the picture) this limited the autocannon to a very slow rate of fire but a new and increased armour penetration.

Rules
The Eradicator will play just like a standard vindicator now except that the autocannon will only get 1xd6 instead and have the a strenght of 8 (so it hits hard but not as hard as a lascannon) of the standard 2xd6 but when you roll on the penetration/damage table the autocannon gets 2d6 instead of one.

so what do you guys think?

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/c...reradicator.jpg[/IMG]

Your link doesn't work.

thanks for letting me know about the pic

It doesn't really make any sense to have a hybrid between a Predator and a Vindicator. Have you seen the internal diagrams? Where would all the ammunition go? Where would the turret basket go?

If the tank in your profile picture is any indication, you can do better than this. I'd suggest something more like a Predator with a beefed up autocannon, something more reminiscent of the autocannon of Rogue Trader and 2nd edition days: something like a cross between an autocannon and a battlecannon:

Predator Heavy Calibre Autocannon
Rng: 48" S8, AP3, Ordnance, Blast 2.

And then basically increase the calibre of the Predator's Autocannon.

Sounds fun model wise, Vindicator with a tank turret on top, rather like the M3 which hull mounted its large bore cannon and had a much smaller gun in the turret.

As to the rules its a vindicator with a vanquisher gun turret (str 8, rolls 2d6 for AP)? If so, I'm not a fan, very mixed bag, and it adds a whole new random sort of gun to the Marine list, when they already have weapons for every situation.

Jack

well allowing for all the engineering problems i would not mess with the gun stats... if the autocannon is too weak, mount a single las or stick with the Annilator turret. Like the ideal of the M3, big hull mounted gun and lighter turret mounted weapon... but do you really need a tank with a turret mounted gun with a range of 48" and a hull mounted 24" gun? what other main weapon option can go into the hull? maybe a Medusa main gun and a autocannon turret would be better? also a severe off set of the turret tot he left side of the hull would help make all the gubbinz fit better in the hull.

well the marines dont have any cool tanks, and looking at the diagram my picture doesnt show it but the turret will be off centered , its warhammer it doesnt have to fit ammo, 10 marines in a rhino please. On the logistic end though the turret would not have a basket for crew and such the loading breach would take most of the room so it angles to a 45 degree angle to reload. the vindicator gun only has to hold 5 rounds which leaves at least 20 rounds for the autocannon. the m1a1 abrams only carries 40 rounds for its main gun so this tank just has to survive the lenght of a 40k game. the auto cannon is like a vanquisher except it has half the range 40" instead of 72".lastly the vindicator was chosen becasue as far as the fluff would go the advanced up armour kits on the vindicator would help its all around survibility but i am open to more suggestions so keep them coming thank you.

Okay, keep in mind that this is just my opinion but...

1. Off-centre turrets suck.

2. I think you've fallen into what I'd call the "Ork Converters Trap" by which people use the fluff to excuse sloppy conversions. It seems you can produce good conversions, if your pict is any indication, so I don't get why you would take the silliness of 40k and extend it instead of trying to produce something consistent with it. If you look at the Imperial Armour book diagrams, for example, you'll find that 10 Marines fit quite easily in a Rhino, while the interior of a Vindicator is pretty crowded with the Demolisher Cannon, its ammunition (something like 11 shells in all!), bracing, and the ventilation system.

3. I like the idea of a Predator with a Vindicator's upgraded side armour, particularly if you use the side armour from a Vindicator kit. I think it helps a Vindicator look more like a tank than a Rhino with a turret slapped on it. But sticking both a mini-Vanquisher Cannon and a Demolisher Cannon on a Rhino chassis is going into Ork Converter territory. Better to just have extra glacis plating.

4. Besides the Predator Annihilator pattern is already the tank-hunter of the Predator tank patterns. I think you'd do better to go with a light tank, with the kind of light rapid-fire battlecannon I suggested. I might even suggest that you add a Machine Spirit to the machine, rule-wise, to make it a mobile tank rather than the tank-destroyer that the Annihilator is, and to distinguish it from the Destructor.

ok i like your ideas and i am glad we can hash this out. i do better with guard tanks, but my inspiration comes from the M3 Grant or Lee depeds on your nationality lol. I but at the same time i have never liked the lascannon its kinda gay looking lol sorry. I was in the military for a long time and there is something about a tank shooting thats sooo awesome. The Panzer VI "Panther" took a smaller calibre gun then the "scary" tiger tanks because it increased its powder charge. I want to use the vindicater because it is heavliy armoured and like you said it looks more like a tank less like a rhino. I guess even making this and shortening the autocannon and keeping its standard rule set.

Well, I think you're onto something with combining the Vindicator and Predator kits, but I think that the Demolisher Cannon is going a little far in combination with the Predator Autocannon turret. Using the Vindicator armour pieces is definitely a good idea though, as the Predator really does need more armour.

I mean, if it does resemble a regular Predator in its layout, then it can do double-duty as a regular Predator. But if you're going to leave off the sponsons, and they won't work with the extra armour plate, then adding a bigger gun in place of the autocannon is the way to go. It shouldn't be too hard to find something that looks halfway between an autocannon and a battlecannon.

I'm not a fan of the 40k fixation on twin-linked weapons myself - maybe something for anti-aircraft work, but otherwise kinda silly, and perhaps even homosexual in a musical theater kind of way. But if you want a hull-mounted secondary weapon then it might be something to consider the twin Heavy Bolter mount from a Land Raider sunk into the hull glacis plating where the Demolisher Cannon would otherwise be.

Well i just dont know what to do then lol. I think it would look like the M3 Lee if i built it like i said which is what i want but i want a rule set and fluff that wont cause people to hate me if you know what i mean. So help lol

Find a way to put the demolisher cannon in the predator turret?

Then you have something that looks unique and can be used as a vindicator with no problems.

A vindicator with a turret mounted Heavy Bolter (or normal Autocannon) would be fine by me, and very similar to the M3. My only objection before was the introduction of a new weapon.

Jack

Ok so changing alot but here is my new idea ditching the demolisher and adding a small calibre vanquisher cannon, same ruleset as the standard vanquisher. So its got vindicator armour and NO sponsons allowed and the vanquisher cannon

That works, and you can add something like a co-axial autocannon... Also should add a little extra length to the turret to allow for higher kick from the gun...

That's a pretty cool image. The bigger gun in the turret says "Tank", while the armoured flanks make it look more aggressive. Where would you get the gun?

I still think the Heavy Bolters would be a good idea: they can count as Heavy Bolter sponsons in normal play, but looking at the Land Raider Heavy Bolters and the Vindicator glacis plates I'm not exactly sure how it would work without extensive cutting.

Rules-wise, it might be something to have it as an ordinary Autocannon with Rending. Or even:

Eradicator Autocannon:
Rng: 48" S:8 AP:4 Ordnance 2, Rending

Fluff
The Eradicator Autocannon is a heavy-bore automatic cannon sharing many components with the standard pattern Autocannon typically employed on Space Marine Predators. However, aside from a greater calibre and more robust breach, the Eradicator Autocannon fires punishing salvos of special shells. These shells are designed to penetrate and then explode, breaking open armour, and allowing the Eradicator to chew open the armoured beasts that are its chosen prey.

About the name: Isn't Eradicator the name of a type of Leman Russ?

I quite like that idea. it would make sense for marines to have a long range big gun, to breach enemy walls and fortifications to make way for their battle brothers to storm in.

get rid of the pintle bolter though, and make it coaxial. coax rules, if I remember correctly, say that if you hit the target with storm bolter fire before the main gun fires, the main gun counts as twin linked. this represents the storm bolter's tracer rounds being used to verify accuracy.

i love the co axe rules but i thought it was for apocolypse only but oh well, i actually wanted to use a heavy stubber as a coaxe, the gun will be made from the forgeworld vanquisher i know a guy who works really well with resin and i will get him to scale it down just a hair in size, i like the fluff though. I thought eradicator cause i looked up destructive synonyms and thats the best sounding. also the IG tank is the exterminator.

If you're going for a completely new vehicle, then using the Apocalypse rules for coaxial weapons sounds like a really good idea, although I'd suggest going for a Heavy Bolter instead either a Heavy Stubber or Storm Bolter as a Space Marine coaxial weapon. Mind you the Storm Bolter would have compatibility going for it, as a 'counts as' pintle mount.

According to the new Imperial Guard Codex the Leman Russ Eradicator is the one with the Eradicator Nova Cannon, a sort of souped-up Conqueror Cannon. The Leman Russ tank with the Exterminator Autocannons is indeed the Exterminator. I'd suggest a non-Leman Russ name though. I'm wracking my brains though, and I can't really think of much along the lines of Destructor and Annihilator. I thought Masticator, but joke names never work that well. How about:

Assassinator (okay, this sucks, but I'm using synonyms for Destruction...)
Extirpator
Subjugator
Distintegrator
Eliminator

Latin words for destroyer:
Vastator
Perditor

Other ideas:
Liquidator
Subjugator
Abolishor
Eliminator
Expungor

Are you using the 3rd Edition VDR for points cost ect or something else?

I forgot about the eradicator, hmmm thanks for the name ideas guys, how about the Predator Calamitious. I am gonna be using the newest VDR ruleset. I like the heavy bolter as a coaxe idea too

Desolator

I know there's a ship in BFG with that name but we're miles from that game here...

lol yeah well "Predator Calamitious" it is i guess, i really hope if some one comes up with a better name please pass it along. or "Predator TUSK (Tank Urban Survivability Kit) due to the up armour from the vindicator

Nurglitch wrote:It doesn't really make any sense to have a hybrid between a Predator and a Vindicator. Have you seen the internal diagrams? Where would all the ammunition go? Where would the turret basket go?

If a razorback can mount a two las canons on top and still have space for five marines, why couldn't you substitute that space for a d. cannon?

i agree

Nurglitch wrote:It doesn't really make any sense to have a hybrid between a Predator and a Vindicator. Have you seen the internal diagrams? Where would all the ammunition go? Where would the turret basket go?

... .

I don't think realism is a major cpncern.

There aren't any GW designed vehicles that would work in reality

thats what i think like th ebasalisk where is all the ammo and if you say its below then its not combat effective cause the crew wouldnt be able to reach ammo fast enough

An idea if you want to go with your original hull design. Make it a standard Battle cannon. Look at a LRBT turret. If they fit in that, it would fit in yours. Fluff would be a damaged Vindicator had it's Demolisher replaced with a salvaged battle cannon as a field repair. The turret from damaged predator was added after the tank was found to be effective, but more firepower was desired to counter the weaker gun. Add a pintle storm bolter and you have the SM version of the M3

Kilkrazy:

Sure, but for a certain squint-eyed value of 'reality', the Forgeworld Imperial Armour books tend to give nice cutaway diagrams of how stuff might fit into vehicle hulls. Remember that it's just not the weapons, but ammunition, reinforcing struts, spare lengths of track, and so on.

Remember that a Razorback has a small turret basket, eliminating its fire points as well as reducing its carrying capacity by four Marines. And it loses its ability to repair itself. I'd expect that carrying capacity given over to spare lascannon barrels, capacitators, and a special super-sized alternator feeding off the chassis' power plants.

I don't know why, but I just find this hobby more fun when people work with the level of realism given, rather than throwing realism out the window just because it isn't premium grade-AAA historical realism.