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G'Day folks, I've just finished work on my new Space Marine list and I wanted you folks to give it a look and tell me what you think. ^_^


Army: Codex Space Marines
Name: Emperor's Purebloods
Icon: A golden teardrop shape on a black background.
Story: The army is based on a surviving number of loyalist Emperor's Children who got lost in the warp just prior to the Heresy and who came back into normal space 100 years ago.
After much interrogation by the Inquisition and having been brought before the Golden Throne itself for final judgement, they were given the opportunity to prove themselves in the defence of humanity and to increase their numbers.
At the present time their numbers have grown to nearly 600 battle ready marines, and the chapter was first active during the 3rd war of Armageddon.
Concept: The army is designed to deal with most other army types, it is strong against heavy armoured vehicles and tries its best to deal with swarms of infantry. Most of the army is about conserving points for more models, rather than spending them on upgrades.

Headquarters 1 - Space Marine Captain - 118 Pts
1 Captain with Frag Grenades, Iron Halo, Krak Grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm Bolter

Headquarters 1+ - Command Squad* - 142 Pts
1 Apothecary with Chainsword, Narthecium
1 Company Champion with Combat Shield, Power Weapon, Storm Bolter
3 Veteran Marines each with Storm Bolter
*Entire squad equipped with Bolt Pistols, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

Troops 1 to 4 - Tactical Squad* - 700 Pts (175 Pts ea)
Combat Squad 1
1 Marine Sergeant with Chainsword, Melta Bombs
1 Space Marine with Flamer
3 Space Marines each with Boltgun
Combat Squad 2
1 Space Marine with Missile Launcher
4 Space Marines each with Boltgun
*Entire squad equipped with Bolt Pistols, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

Troops 1+ to 4+ - Dedicated Transports - 300 Pts (75 Pts ea)
1 Razorback with Search Light, Smoke Launchers, Twin-Linked Lascannons

Troops 5 - Scout Squad* - 150 Pts
Combat Squad 1
1 Scout Sergeant with Chainsword
1 Scout with Shotgun
3 Scouts each with Combat Blade
Combat Squad 2
1 Scout with Heavy Bolter
4 Scouts each with Bolter
*Entire squad equipped with Bolt Pistols, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

Troops 6 - Scout Squad* - 150 Pts
Combat Squad 1
1 Scout Sergeant with Chainsword
1 Scout with Shotgun
3 Scouts each with Combat Blade
Combat Squad 2
1 Scout with Missile Launcher
4 Scouts each with Sniper Rifle
*Entire squad equipped with Bolt Pistols, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

Fast Attack 1 - Attack Bike Squad* - 120 Pts
3 Attack Bikes each with Heavy Bolter, Twin-linked Bolter
*Entire squad equipped with Bolt Pistols, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

Fast Attack 2 - Attack Bike Squad* - 150 Pts
3 Attack Bikes each with Multi-melta, Twin-linked Bolter
*Entire squad equipped with Bolt Pistols, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

Heavy Support 1 to 2 - Whirlwind - 170 Pts (85 Pts ea)
1 Whirlwind with Search Light, Smoke Launchers, WMM Launcher


Any constructive criticism would be appreciated.

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

If it's successor Emperors Children I would expect some CC units for sure. Some assault marine really. But that's just IMO.

For the troops I might go:

Tactical Squad
10x; Lascannon; Meltagun; Sergeant has Meltabombs; Razorback w/ TLLC

That way you can sit back the LC squad and go mobile tankhunting with the razorback + meltagun team.

The ML + Flamer Can still work well though. MG + ML would be very good too. You could give the sergeant a combi-flamer + MB then have both anti-tank + anti-horde in the form of a combi-flamer. I actually REALLY like this build. I do understand (I will suggest something expensive again below) that you are going to cheap so just the build you have or the one above is good.

The scouts I'm a bit iffy on. Let me throw this idea out to you. Make the scouts:

Scout Squad -
10x; Segeant has Combi-Melta + Meltabombs; 4x Shotguns; 4x Snipers; Rocket Launcher

Now the squad combat squads into a sniper + rocket team and a shotgun + melta captain. Then drop the HB ABs for LSS and you have a suicide melta squad + support sniper squads. Not bad. I do really realize though that you don't want to spend points on upgrades which is why if anything i would reccomend to still take LSS squads but give the scouts combat blades like you have them (drop the one random shogun guy idk what he is doing ) and maybe a HF on the LSS and make them assault squads that can krak rear armor.

I like the MM AB and they could work well with the suicide scout meltas (they don't have to suicide all the time though and could be careful and go for a tankbust later).

The only REAL things I dislike about this list are the Whirlwinds. Idk why I personally am not a fan but other than maybe dropping them to beef up other units I just don't have very much to say how to replace them. A dreadnought or maybe HB or ML devs if anything.

If it works for you then go for it, but I will say that you're fielding a TON of softish killpoints.

IMO it needs more melta. Not a whole lot more, but some. Overall you've got a good balance. You get outstanding range with all of those TL-LC on the Razorbacks so you can afford to swap the MLs in the Tac squads for Multimeltas.

EzeKK wrote:The only REAL things I dislike about this list are the Whirlwinds. Idk why I personally am not a fan but other than maybe dropping them to beef up other units I just don't have very much to say how to replace them. A dreadnought or maybe HB or ML devs if anything.

The real reason I have those is that I have a real problem at my local club with Tyranid, Ork and Imperial Guard swarm armies and the Whirlwinds help to drop their numbers greatly, if they weren't a problem I'd probably have a squad of Seraphim w/ Melta Bombs.

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

Captain: LC + say…a combi-weapon would be fine IMO, but a stormbolter seems like a meh piece of equipment.

Command Squad:
I don’t think you can purchase a stormbolter for the Company Champion.
Vets with storm bolters is pretty meh.
They have not bite, they do not threaten, their durability is a novelty and generally don’t look like they will perform.

Tactical Squads:
So 4 exactly the same squads? Maybe change it up for some weapon diversity?
Don’t forget you don’t have to combat squad.
Razorbacks: TLLC are pretty expensive for the Razors, while the TLHB are prob. second most cost effective unit in the SM army list.

Scouts: they look ok, but sniper rifles mesh a bit more with the Hvy bolter as well as the ML

I don’t know you want to label everything as combat squadded.
Combat Squad should be an option that the squad has, not the purpose of the squad.
What happens when you don’t want to combat squad, then you have combat scouts that are only body bags and can’t contribute offensively, or wasted hvy shots if they need to go combatty.

Fast Attack:
GOLD MINE, I love attack bikes, they will do you proud.

Whirlwinds: They are sort of meh, I suggest a WW and one Dakka Pred to add some variety.

Thanks for you comments Sancthud.

Captain:
See I've always hated Combi-weapons (with the sole exception of the Shoota/Skorcha), I mean they always seem overpriced just for one shot from a weapon that any of my Tactical Squads or the Command Squad could be carrying for a much cheaper price. I mean why pay double the price for a one-shot Flamer when the real deal is an option (and as mentioned with Tactical Squads, free)?!?

Command Squad:
From memory it was mentioned somewhere that Company Champions are in the same boat as the Standard Bearers, they can be given options prior to being upgraded. The Storm Bolters aren't too bad, they're cheap, have a good range for a special weapon, are assault weapons and are a definate improvement over the standard Bolter. The squad offers good support for the Captain, able to move and shoot each Turn leading up to the inevitable assault, plus the Apothecary gives them all a 50% chance of survival everytime they fail their normal Sv (excluding PW, ID and AP2/AP1 attacks).

Tactical Squads:
The lack of variety comes from two places, with the Special Weapons I really didn't want any Meltaguns due to the short range and extra cost, nor did I want a Plasma Gun which is even more expensive, runs the risk of killing it's owner and isn't an assault weapon. In regards to the Heavy Weapons I was more focused on the versitility and longer range of the Missile Launcher compared to the other options. I already had 3-4 each of Heavy Bolters, Lascannons and Multimeltas and I dislike Plasma Cannons due to the same reasons as Plasma Guns with the added problems of being even costlier and inaccurate.

Razorbacks:
The problem here is that cost wise Twin-linked Lascannon Predators are expensive and take up Heavy Support slots, the Razorbacks on the otherhand are far cheaper, lose a point of AV here and there and gain transport capacity. I do agree with your Twin-linked Heavy Bolter Razorbacks comment, but due to their vulnerability and speed I prefer Attack Bikes.

Scouts:
I agree with your Heavy Bolter comment here as well, but in this case it came down to me having only the 2nd Edition metal Scouts in my collection. There's enough similarities with those models, especially with the Bolter armed Scouts, that I wanted some more variety in the squads (hence also the Shotgun Scouts). On a side note that Missile Launcher Scout once lasted three Turns whilst being swamped by a squad of Termagants.

Combat Squads:
The whole reason I've work my army around this rule is because I hate wasting too attacks caused by having a Heavy Weapon, either because the squad moved and it can't be used, or because the squad would be better off going into assualt than firing the Heavy Weapon, this way the Heavy Weapon only skips firing due to movement when movement if preferable to being destroyed and the assault half of the squads can do their thing. I understand it makes them weaker as squads, but it also gives them more mobility and independance, plus the potential to claim more objectives.

Whirlwinds:
As I mentioned with the Razorbacks above, I just find Razorbacks a cheaper option to Predators, if I had the point left over I'd probably do as you suggested before and add a Heavy Bolter Razorback to the Command Squad, or possibly some more Attack Bikes. As I've mentioned before Whirlwinds help me stop the swarm armies that I regularily have to deal with at my local club and when not dealing with those armies I swap them out for a tank hunting Seraphim Squad.

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

Captain:
Yes, tacs get it for free, but they only get one.
When you are able to bring 2 weapons of the same type to bear, it’s not twice as good, but 4 times as good. (Based on Force Concentration) So being able to bring a special weapon to where you need it is a powerful thing, well worth the points.

Command Squad:
What ever floats your boat. To be honest and blunt, I think they are wasted potential.
Don’t overestimate FNP and storm bolters IMO.

Tactical Squads:
Meltaguns: kills tanks good. Well worth the…what? Handful of points?

Razorbacks:
The difference is 2 points of frontal AV for roughly 25 points. And you do have an extra hvy slot open, so that’s not a problem.
What’s the point of transport capacity if it’s just gonna shoot?
If it has a TLLC it should be maximizing range, not moving forward, if you move forward to shoot, then you are not transporting the guys at full potential. If you transport guys at max speed, you don’t get to shoot.
The opportunity cost is big with the TLLC Razor, with the TLHB it’s not as big.

Combat Squads:
It has its pros and cons, I feel there are more cons, hence that’s why I say it’s an option. Whatever floats your boat. I think it’s inferior to plan on continuous combat squadding, esp. if you are only using one tactical squad.

Your Captain is meh. Will get stomped on quickly, give it a relic blade for those S6 attacks, throw on a storm shield for a 3+ invulnerable save - nasty little bugger.

Terminators are better than a command squad, command squad gets on invulnerable saves.

Drop the lascannons on the Razorbacks, keep them cheap as they're easy to pop. Throw in some meltaguns on your tact squads along with the odd power fist, makes them nasty against vehicles. If you want anti infantry go flamer, heavy bolter and perhaps even a Land Raider Crusader.

Give the scouts with the heavy bolter hellfire rounds. Your scouts in combat squads will get mullered and act as nothing but one turn road humps most likely.

Attack bikes seem ok to me.

I've never used Whirlwinds, but with a lot of mech armies about they see less use, and you need to crack open armour first. Those multimelta attack bikes will be a high target along with the lascannon Razorbacks.

Small note:
I would say a storm shield should be an upgrade only if you have points remaining... it's a pricey upgrade for a minor boost to inv saves on a capt.

15 points for a 3+ invulnerable save is hardly pricey, captain becomes a lot more durable in combat.

Yea, but he already has a 4++.
I would say it's a great buy if he didn't have an inv. save. But if you are hurting for points, this is the first thing I'd drop.

Alot? Really? It's like 16%. It's like Extra armor, and you know how many people hate paying for that.

See, what would really help is if you guys could also suggest the sort of armies where this list won't work. The main armies I deal with are either Troops heavy Ork, Tyranid, Witch Hunters and Imperial Guard armies who only have the occasional vehicles or Space Marine and Necron armies which have lots of small expensive units bolstered by some light/medium armour vehicles, with a single Land Raider or Monolith.

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

I was thinking, would it in general, be better to replace the two Scout Squads with a full Seraphim Squad as indicated below.

Fast Attack 3 - 297 Pts
1 Veteran Superior with Powersword, Purity Seals, Twin Bolt Pistols
2 Seraphim each with Twin Hand Flamers
7 Seraphim each with Twin Bolt Pistols
*Entire squad equipped with Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades and Melta Bombs

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

LSWSjr wrote:I was thinking, would it in general, be better to replace the two Scout Squads with a full Seraphim Squad as indicated below.

Fast Attack 3 - 297 Pts
1 Veteran Superior with Powersword, Purity Seals, Twin Bolt Pistols
2 Seraphim each with Twin Hand Flamers
7 Seraphim each with Twin Bolt Pistols
*Entire squad equipped with Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades and Melta Bombs

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

Seraphim suck.

If you want some backbone grab IST's or Celestines or Dominions or even regular Sisters. Putting these units in immolators brings even more pain to the table!

Your list won't work against:

RAF
Twin Seer Council / Single Council
Waveserpent BL spam
Alphastrike Guard
Anti-Mech heavy guard
Hyper-Competitive Daemons
Immolator Horde

The reason for the above is that they can deal with what you have very easily. Light armor. Fiends and DP's run through AV10-11 and so does every other thing on this list. You can ask why about each but each can deal with light armor like it's not there.

For more backbone I just suggest less potatoes and more meat. AKA less of the "I haz lots of tacticals!" and more "I have this unit X which can blow you up + a lot of tacs!"

The command squad is really bumming me out. If you want them good grab a meltagun storm for them.

I still think Meltagun / LC would benefit you better on tacs and fit more with the theme TBH.

The scouts should be, like you analyzed, dropped. I think that again, you should maybe make the HB AB MM's or grab some LS from there. Dropping the scouts + whirlwind might get you enough for 3x DP dreadnoughts. Even taking 3x Rifleman dreadnoughts (double AC) would be good.

Taking more "troops" to replace the scouts seems a little to much on the redundant side. You have 40 marines, making it more without giving them a focal point or backup, you're really hoping those marines do VERY well. The problem with your marines to it that they are setup to be backup. With being combat-squadded how they are they are better served supporting then doing the heavy hauling. That is another reason why I think you'll have trouble.

Getting a focal point or more backup for the tacs is critical.

I actually have a squad of Celestians and a Canoness for my 2250 version of this army. The reason I suggested the Seraphim though was I thought with all the Melta Bombs and faster movement, they'd be another tank destroyer.

It's already been noted the my Missile Launchers and Lascannons may not be the best for AV14 units, so I thought I'd focus them on light vehicles, character units and Monstrous Creatures whilst focussing the Multi-Melta Attack Bikes Squad and Seraphim Squad on the heavier tanks. With that said alternatively I could buy another Multi-Melta Attack Bike Squad and still have 150 Pts to either keep a Scout Squad or buy something else.

That last thing said though will have me going out to buy some more Attack Bikes first...

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

Well... attack bikes are worth every penny IMO.

As to WH allies, I'm one to stick with the a single codex.

Multiple Melta bombs are nice, but needing to assault a tank to do it?
I don't know, that is one dead Seriphim squad, assuming they make it to their target in one piece.

I second EzeKK's post, when in doubt, more troops.