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2 Hqs

Big Mek Kff, Pk

Big Mek Kff, Pk

Elite

15 Kommandos, Snikrot

Troops

6x30 Boyz, Nob,Pk, bosspole.

Heavysupport

2 big guns 1 lobba one cannon 45 points here that i play around with


Idea is have the Bike meks giving the extra pk and running boys down the field with a 5+ cover. The big guns are just an
afterthought really I put them in there to just give some weapon support for the boys. I would like to have squad of lootas but they are so expensive. Also running 6 troop choices is great for tournys, because of scoring units.

Plan with the kommandos is tie up and probably kill some unit that has potential to kill my boyz easy. I figure 180 wounds is so many wounds that getting them all across the field would not be a problem.

As said in the title, Give me some input and ideas.

Meks aren't combat monsters, a burna would be better and use it as a power weapon

5+ cover save is nothing to write home about. You want to do a ork walking list then kan wall is the best. Kanz get 4+ cover from big mek, kanz give 4+ cover to boyz

Lootas rule and provide supporting fire and long range fire. Also good against medium armour too.

Big gunz I think are a waste.

Nice having plenty of troops, but six is too much. Share the love else where.

I don't rate kommandos. 6+ save on foot isn't good.

yeah I totally forgot about the burna thing been playing tau to long. That would save 20 points right there.

Another thing i was wondering is why you dont like the Kommandos. With that set up I have killed 1-2 expensive units a game with just them, because of ambush and snikrot reroll rules. I will say i have never had them survive, but they are a great distraction.

I am not opposed to lootas. Honestly, there is nothing like them. I mean 48 inch range, and 45 high str shots. Its just sexy, but i am just saying. Its an expensive squad.

I have heard about the Kans I guess i just dont see there coolness.

Now I do see they are vehicles giving cover to the boys. I do see you get a 4+ cover to them from kff. Which makes them a lot better. The only thing I dont understand is the ws 2.

See I like to run my boyz every turn, and waagh the last one. Kans are shooty, and have a, wtf, 2 ws. Although they have a 3 bs.

I get that they are nice shooting, but for the purposes of getting across the field giving cover to the boys, they wont be able to shoot if you are running them every turn.

o hai thar.

There's a lot that you need to know that I would write except that I wrote a lot of it just a little bit ago in another thread here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/263869.page#1095340. Read my post and take sage advice from it.

Beyond that, there's a few specifics to make on your list.

1. Drop the Big Meks with the KFFs. They belong in a mechanized list giving 4+ cover saves to vehicles.

2. Drop one of your boyz squads and instead do this: 29 Gretchin + 2 Runt Herders = 107 points. String the entire squad of gretchin along your front lines and have them move then run every turn. The rest of your army now gets a 4+ cover save because the enemy is shooting through a unit. And if they shoot at your gretchin....onoes. Who cares?

3. What kind of boyz do you have? If you're taking a foot-slogging list, they need to be shoota boyz, not slugga boyz. That six point model with an assault 2 shoota can lay down withering fire, and since your six point model has a 6+ armor save and only I3 on the charge, you NEED to do anything you can to thin the ranks of what you're about to charge. On the charge isn't bad, but if it goes a second turn where you're not STR3 I2 with 2 attacks....life is sucking for you.

4. Without any HQ choices now, you have a few options. I personally believe that Ghazghkull Thraka belongs in almost every ork army list. He'll give you a full 6" on your Waaaugh! and make your entire army fearless for a full round. That negates your need for bosspoles. For a footslogging list, you might also want to consider Old Zogwort. He is TERRIFYINGLY awesome in a foot-slogging list.

5. Drop your heavy supports; those guns just aren't worth it.

6. The REASON Killa-kans has been suggested is because you need an answer to monstrous creatures, vehicles, deep-striking stuff, terminators....that's your killa-kans. A squadron or two of killa-kans with Grotzookas have ridiculous amounts of killing power, and you need an answer to the really big stuff. If you assault a carnifex with a unit of 30 boyz, with a Nob with a PK attached....most likely, you're still going to lose.

7. Kommandos: Very awesome unit, I pretty much always take Snikrot. However, if you take this unit without taking the two optional burnas, you're pretty much wasting the unit. Those count as power weapons in close combat, and except for Snikrot, your Kommandos are striking at I3. You *NEED* to win combat, and those burnas go a long way towards evening the odds in combat resolution.

8. If you decide to take squadrons of killa-kans, keep a single mek with a KFF; put him in a unit of boyz between two squadrons of Killa-kans, where they both get obscured status (4+ cover saves) and you'll have significantly ramped up your killing power.

9. As for having six troop choices in a tournament because of scoring and objectives....you ALSO win if you table your opponent, and a good ork player can do that more often than not. You're right about the Lootas though. Lootas are awesome in a shooty ork list. You're not making that are you? If you want a virtually broken list, put three squads of lootas in three battlewagons, a mek with a KFF in the middle one, lots of guns on the battlewagons, and ring the whole thing with a giant squad of gretchin to prevent anyone assaulting your battlewagons and you have a firebase that can pour so much gunfire down range that you're going to have to borrow dice to keep track of it all.

I like the idea of a squad of killa kanz with the list . Seems to fit the stompy / green tide feel very well, imho. Maybe a bit better than the big gunz you have in there right now!

Kans aren't intended for H2H, they're just gun platforms for you to fire Grotzookas/KMBs into enemy units before an assault wave hits them.

Essentially Killa Kans are one of those few units in the Ork codex that are hard to justify leaving out. All my defeats have been Pyhrric Victories thanks to these babies, and my victories have usually been enabled by being able to shoot off that Battlecannon from that there Defiler, or killing that Shas'O/Crisis Suit Unit before the last turn rush for objectives.

Huh, I like your post that you linked a lot of good information there.

I guess the reason I never used Ghaz. is I do a lot of footslogging armys with orks and I Never liked him running by himself or slowing down the squad. I know, I know put him in a BW. The fearless stuff for a turn is very nice. That can make or break a game. He gets what 7 attacks on a charge all cant be saved by most units. Rolling 2s to hit so you are probably getting 5 to 6 unsavable insta death wounds.

You did spark my interest with the 3 BW and fill them with lootas and a big mek.
Does it look something like this.
BigMek
11 lootas
12 lootas
12 lootas

3x BW with Killakanon, Armor plates,Deathrolla, Lobba, 4 big shootas. Maybe redpaint and grot riggers I dont know how to work out the tactics of it all yet.

with say 2 squads of 30 grots i messured it out and you can actually wrap the 3 BW with 2 rows, but you will have leadership problems. They will probably run off the board when they get bellow half though. I know runtherder with grot prod, but like you said if they do wow 100 points lost.

I thought about adding to this Ghas with Some boys in a truck, I dont know. I figure you got about 700 points after you buy all that Lease a lot of stuff to play with. Maybe some bikers, or a lot of koptas.

I am a little conflicted on the shoota boys as you suggested. As I have never personally used them, even though i have about 60. In the FAQ says they are rapid fire so that would dramatically change the tactic with using them. In the book it a says assault 2, 18", but the FAQ says rapid fire 24" practically a bolt gun.

I have a question for you though. If you are running a Big Mek could you technically run Deathdreads as troop choices and have them. I.e Use them to take Objectives. Still using the grots as living shield. Feasibly, you can take 2 big Meks and have 2 Deathdreads and still field the 3 BWs. Hell you can take a Nob mob as a troop choice and run them around with Ghaz.

I like your idea, about the BW, and I will try it, but I still am concerned about having enough scoreing units.

Okies, responding to your questions:


1. Shoota boyz are assault 2, 18" range. Its in the codex, and nevermind whatever else you read somewhere. The firewarrior used to be the king of "most efficient model" but the shoota boy has taken over. Six points for a T4 model, STR4 on the charge with an assault 2 weapon. For a foot-slogging unit, these are the way to go.

2. Ghazghkull works in a foot-slogging army too. Ghazghkull has slow and purposeful, which says to treat the model as if its moving through difficult terrain (2D6). However, if you read the rules for ICs, all ICs also have skilled rider and move through cover, which means that you get 3D6 instead of 2D6. Your units move at the speed of the slowest model, so if you stick him in with a unit of foot-slogging boyz, they move at the speed of 3D6. That's not very slow.

3. Every Ork army list needs some kind of "wtfpwnage" unit. Something that can stand up to monstrous creatures, dreadnoughts, terminator squads....Ghazghkull on the Waaaugh! fills that role nicely. A squad of burna boyz does too, but they're not a good unit for a foot-slogging army.

4. What every foot slogging unit needs is a squad or two of Stormboyz. Read their rules; they go zoom zoom zoom REALLY fast. If you can afford points and want to try something fun/reckless try Zagstruck. Deepstrike and assault on the turn you deep strike (if you're in assault range). Its risky though, but you're Ork.

5. Gretchin benefit from the leadership of their runt-herders. Don't take two units....honestly, the only purpose of grots to to screen your other guys. Take one to absorb bullets. Have them go to ground and get 3+ cover saves if you can so you can lol while your enemy wastes fire on them.

6. Your biker idea - don't do it. Biker boyz are horribly expensive and inefficient. Biker nobs are the same, for a plethora of reasons I've detailed in other posts you can find here on the first page of the forum in other ork army lists. If you want to take nobs, stick them in a trukk or a battlewagon.

7. Deffdreads count as troop choices if you take a Big mek, but they're still vehicles; vehicles can contest an objective, but cannot hold it.

8. Your battlewagon idea is messed up. Battlewagons are either meant to be stationary shooting platforms or fast-moving assault platforms to deliver assault troops into close combat as fast as possible. If you're going to use them as platforms for Lootas, then there's a few things to take into consideration. Deffrolla is wasted because you're not moving or ramming stuff; armor plates are pointless because neither a 1 or a 2 are meaningful to you while stationary, nor red paint (stationary shooting platform). There's really two configuration options to base your choices on.

A.) Assault Battlewagon: Red Paint, Reinforced Ram(Or deff rolla if your store says they work on vehicles), and a couple of big shootas (add a kannon if you like) - the purpose of the guns is just to absorb weapon destroyed results to keep you from being immobilized and unable to deliver your payload.
B.) Shooting Platform: A killakannon doesn't make you non-open topped, that's just an 'Ard Case. You want to be open-topped so that you don't have to worry about firing points so everyone can fire out. Also, big shootas are wasted because you have LOTS of dakka; if you're using Lootas, that's freakin' 45 guys with D3 shots per turn at STR7 AP4. If you want to add something useful, add rokkit launchers and either kannons or Zzap guns so you have some potential MEQ killers or vehicle killing. Killa-kannons are *really* personal preference. They're expensive, cost as much as a demolisher cannon for less deadliness, and at BS2, tend to scatter more than usual. However, for a pure shooty list, try it on for size like this: Battlewagon, Killa-kannon, 4 Rokkit Launchers, Kannon.

Take three battlewagons, deploy them in a trident formation like this: \|/ so that front armor is facing across the field. Put 15 Lootas in each battlewagon, a Mek with a KFF in the center battlewagon. Give him a few grot oilers; your 6" bubble of KFF extends to the other battlewagons, and if you have the backs of the battlewagons touching, the Mek with the KFF can attempt repairs on the other guys. The effective control radius of a model extends to the hull of they vehicle they are in (for example, a squad of burnas in a battlewagon can put the flame template at any point on the battlewagon). IE, the Mek in the middle can attempt repair on any battlewagon touching the hull.

9. Deff Dreads are a common flank-protecting unit here. They count as troop choices (that can contest but not hold). Close combat weapon and a flamer - no need to fear genestealers outflanking or anything crazy, and those STR10 CC claws can lay the smack down on anything.

10. That leaves your shoota boyz. Exposed units, but you need to have troop choices to take objectives. Basically, I have these guys advance from cover to cover, puking out massive amounts of firepower if anything gets close enough to be shot at, but I don't dump them into assault unless I'm absolutely sure I can win, and do so without compromising my strategy or army integrity.

That just leaves your shooting. You have 45 Lootas with a 48" range with D3 shots that can pour out up to 135 STR7 shots per turn. You're weak on anti-tank, so you can take some out-flanking deff-koptas with twin-linked rokkits to snipe at rear armor. You've got 12 rokkits across your battlewagons that can toast any MEQ and double-toughness most of 40k's offerings, and a unit of gretchin surrounding you will prevent someone from outflanking or deep striking and getting free hits on your rear armor for you not having moved. Not to mention at least 60 boyz able to crank out 120 shots per turn....there's a lot of dakka.

I've tried taking a Big Mek with a Shokk attack gun in the mix; that large blast template is also randomly good and bad. YMMV, so try it on for size and see how you like it.

My advice - take it all like I've described and play a friendly game of annihilation with someone; start simple. They've got to cross the board to you or have a shooting fight, and you're decced out to win that fight. Get comfortable with having a static firebase and how to run it, then try a game of sieze ground / capture and control. Ease your way into a new play style. As for your battlewagons presenting front armor across the board, remember that if someone shoots at your vehicle and are in a facing arc they can't see, you get a 3+ cover save. Melta-guns are the most threatening, but anything even trying to get close enough to do that will get a withering fusillade of fire. As for the most common tank-killing weapon in the game (the Lascannon) lets talk about those statistics.

Lascannon takes a shot at you, ballistic skill 4, needs a 3+ to hit: 67% chance to hit
Against AV14, needs a 5+ to glance, 6+ to penetrate, or a respective 33% and 16% chance.
You have a 50% chance of ignoring the result with a cover save.
With a glancing hit, its -2 on the damage table, +1 for being open-topped, so minus 1. You don't care about stunned, shaken, weapon destroyed or immobilized, which means they need to roll a 6 to destroy the vehicle. Anything less, you can probably repair with youg big mek. That's a 16% chance to do anything meaningful.
With a penetrating hit, its +1 on the damage table, meaning a 4,5,6 can ruin your day, or 50%.

If you multiply all those together, you get this: A lascannon shot has less than a 3% chance of doing anything meaningful to you. I think that's all my typing for the night.

Man you like to write a lot. So much to read. Still good things though.

I appreciate your input.

Ill play around with the shootas boys. 60 str 4 shots, and then 90 str 4 attacks means dead w/e, so we will have to play around with it.

I think you can only fit 12 lootas into a Bw with the killakanon so i am guessing your doing a 11, 12, 12, Big mek set up, but still like I said I haven't worked with a Ork mechanized army much. I will try it though. My though about the death rolla was to use it if my opponent deep strikes kills grots moves up like 1 inch away. I tank shock them giving them d6 str 10 hits and if they fail they get another d6 str 10 hits. Thats a lot of insta death going on. Hell I think that would rock Almost and instant deep strike killer. And if i keep my moving to 6 inches a lot of those guns will be shooting this turn too. Maybe its just the old ork in me that just likes sending a vehicle kareening into very unlucky space marines.

Completely agree with what you said about the red paint and armor plates. Like i said havent played with them in the immovable

I will have to read the IC rules again. If so thats pretty sexy. Think its 66 percent chance to roll a six on slow and purposeful +move through cover.

That's pretty fascinating about the Big mek repair thing. Honestly I have never used a mek to repair just for SAG and KFF.

Thanks again for writing so much, and offering so much good information I will reference it a quite a few times I am sure.

An 'Ard Case reduces the transport capacity to 12. A Killa-kannon does not confer an 'Ard case. I made that mistake when I first started playing too, but its a mistake. You can still fit 20 models into a battlewagon with a killa-kannon on it.

Dashofpepper wrote:An 'Ard Case reduces the transport capacity to 12. A Killa-kannon does not confer an 'Ard case. I made that mistake when I first started playing too, but its a mistake. You can still fit 20 models into a battlewagon with a killa-kannon on it.

In the BW text there´s a line:
A BW with a killkanon has a capacity of 12 - pag. 55. Codex Ork.

Also you can't take it as a dedicated transport for nobz and mega nobz if you've got a killkannon. So many nerfs for a gun that really isn't that great to begin with.

It can still be a dedicated transport....there's no line about it not being able to.

However, the purpose of nobs is to get up to the fray, meaning that you're moving at speeds fast enough to negate the point of having a killakannon. Just not a good idea to take one.

page 98 in the nobz box

"alternately they may take a BW as a dedicated transport vehicle, though it may not have the killkannon upgrade"

same thing in meganobz. I thought I was going crazy there for a minute.

I don't blame you for misremembering though considering it would be silly to field nobz in a killkannon BW. Mixing shooty and assault in the same unit let alone the same army.