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Hey guys i play some 40k with my friends as an imperial guard player, everybody plays marine equivalent armies.
They have agreed to let me proxy an ork army to see if i might want to start putting one together. we are playing
a 3v3 game with orks marines and chaos(1k sons) vs wolves eldar and chaos(nurgle)

i have ahold of a codex but i honestly have no idea what to do to create an effective ork army(ive never even played against orks)
they are letting me do pretty much full proxies of everything, we have a black reach set but thats not alot. So I come to you
to ask for some help in a list.

Thanks in advance,
Ennkay

take alot of boyz! boyz is the strengh of the orks! and add a warboss or convert him to a big mek with KFF. use guardsmen as replacements for the boyz if you are allowed to do that of course.

i can take approx 140 gaurdsmen boyz, borrow termies for nobs? i think they are the same base

This is ground level. Well in the book they have examples of army builds. Ork armies come in different flavors. First off is this a Mech ork army or a foot sloggin army. If it's a mech army you want things like 4 orks boyz truck units, a KFF big mech, battlewagons with nobz, or burnas or other elite to flavor. If you are a foot slogger than most people build a kan wall. 2x3 killa kans one with all rokkits one with all zookas, at least 3 units of boyz hopefully at full 30 model count, a KFF mech, and or warboss and or Ghazzy with some elites to flavor.

If you want a shootey build then make everything shootey (shoota boyz, lootas etc) if you are making an assault army then make all assault (slugga boyz, nobz, mega nobz, burnas).

The mantra is boyz before toys. Orks work best when they have a high model count.

You want to get the charge in assault. That's when orks shine.

Every boyz unit needs a power klaw and a boss pole nob. A nob unit should have a painboy, 1-3 power klaws, at least 1 bosspole, and the rest to flavor (try and get a waagh banner since they are great). Try and make each nob model configured uniquely to take advantage of wound allocation rules.

The PKs are your anti armor solution. Ork shooting caps at str 8 with the rokkit (except zapp gun but they are risky).

Try and keep your transports cheap since they will most likely blow up fast anyway. Maybe one big shoota, a boarding plank and/or grabba klaw.

Try making a list and we will critique it.

<Appended>

Everything in the ork codex is good except flash gitz. It's the popular opinion that flash gitz are crap. Too expensive for what they do and they steal a heavy slot that could be used for better units.

Another nice build is a battlewagon spam unit. Since it has a 20 model capacity you could field 3 battlewagons from the heavy support slot to transport 60 ork boyz across the board. With another Battlewagon from a mega nob or nob units and you have alot of AV14 on the board.

Remember to read how the ork waagh rule and ork mob rule works. They are important.

Looted wagons are controversial in their usefulness. The boomgun is nice, but the AV is terribly low for such an expensive unit and the "don't touch that rule" will screw you probably once per game on average.

sorry about the formatting, i do this stuff in excel. but this is what i came up with
1500 point list total so far: 1497

Gazzy 225

Big Mek 100
KFF 50
mega blasta 15

boyz mob 219
x30 nob 10
boss pole 5
power claw 25
eavy armour 5

boyz mob 219
x30 nob 10
boss pole 5
power claw 25
eavy armour 5

boyz mob 219
x30 nob 10
boss pole 5
power claw 25
eavy armour 5


nobz
nob 1 power claw 25
eavy armor 5
nob 2 power claw 25
twin linked shoota 5
nob 3 power claw 25
shotta/scorcha combi weapon 5
painboy 30
nob4 waaagh banner 15
nob5 bosspole 5
nob6 big choppa 5
nob7 shotta/scorcha combi weapon 5
nob8 twin linked shoota 5
nob9 eavy armour 5
twin linked shoota 5
nob10 eavy armour 5


killa kan 50
rokkit 15

killa kan 50
rokkit 15
killa kan 45
zooka 10


i ended up running low on points at the very end and gave the nob leaders 'ard boy armour, idk if it even matters worth a damn though.
any help you guys give me would be cool

Erm i cant read it very well... From the looks of it you need a unit of specialised orks but you have a good core of boyz, that is the main thing, but be careful not to take too many as ordanance of gunlines may make a mockery of your army. Consider mounting some 20-ork units in BWs.

i dont think i have the ability to use a battlewagon, cant think of anything to proxy it as, but i appear to have misread how i can give every nob a cybork body.. back to the drawing board methinks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i edited the list a bit, but im something along the lines of 57 points short of 1500, what should i fill that with?

Eldar Own wrote:Erm i cant read it very well... From the looks of it you need a unit of specialised orks but you have a good core of boyz, that is the main thing, but be careful not to take too many as ordanance of gunlines may make a mockery of your army. Consider mounting some 20-ork units in BWs.

That's why footsloggers in 5th edition usually run a kan wall. Boyz run behind the kans with a KFF giving the kans cover. Also running boyz behind a grot screen is effective. They will have to blow through your kan wall, but by the time they work through the wall hopefully you are in counter charge range with the boyz.

You need at least 6 kans for a good kan wall with a KFF mech to be competitive (you need to cover your entire front rank). Either drop the nobz unit in this list or make them cheaper. A full nobz unit is hard but it's an expensive target without a transport.

I say add 3 kans (all the same type of weapon per unit) and add the KFF big mech HQ then you have a good list. Also you could replace the nobz with kommandos (snikrot if you can afford him) to disrupt gunline armies while your footsloggers waagh run across across the field.

You don't need the heavy armor on the boyz unit nobz, since they will have a large amount of boyz bodies to soak up wounds. That saves some points.

<append>

blast templates are unavoidable. If you aren't going mech you need to compensate by bring large numbers to the table and making sure you don't bunch up models. If the army spams template weapons you are in trouble no matter what you do. Asside from the kommandos option you could also run deffkoptas. Scout move 1st turn armor popping is a great options (make sure they go flat out during scout move incase you go second), or an outflank to split your threats is always nice. Deff koptas need to be small suicide squads. 1 to 2 koptas both with TL rokkits. One kopta should have a buzzsaw to assault rear armor after firing the rokkits. It will scare your enemy and force him to deal with the koptas instead of your boyz for a while.

If you really want to run that full up nob unit on foot then make 2-3 vanilla nobz. That gives you a cheaper dump bucket for instant death wounds.

<append>

Ghazzy is a slow and purposeful movement unit. The only way he will get across the field in a timely manner is with his waagh bonus. Most people run Ghazzy or any other mega armor model in a transport to counter act their slow movement. You might want to consider down grading to a regular PK warboss or a KFF big mech. Ghazzy is a monster though in CC.

Ennkay wrote:i dont think i have the ability to use a battlewagon, cant think of anything to proxy it as, but i appear to have misread how i can give every nob a cybork body.. back to the drawing board methinks

You can give cybork bodies to Nobs for +5pts as long as there is a painboy in thier unit.

phillosmaster wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:Erm i cant read it very well... From the looks of it you need a unit of specialised orks but you have a good core of boyz, that is the main thing, but be careful not to take too many as ordanance of gunlines may make a mockery of your army. Consider mounting some 20-ork units in BWs.

That's why footsloggers in 5th edition usually run a kan wall. Boyz run behind the kans with a KFF giving the kans cover. Also running boyz behind a grot screen is effective. They will have to blow through your kan wall, but by the time they work through the wall hopefully you are in counter charge range with the boyz.

You need at least 6 kans for a good kan wall with a KFF mech to be competitive (you need to cover your entire front rank). Either drop the nobz unit in this list or make them cheaper. A full nobz unit is hard but it's an expensive target without a transport.

I say add 3 kans (all the same type of weapon per unit) and add the KFF big mech HQ then you have a good list. Also you could replace the nobz with kommandos (snikrot if you can afford him) to disrupt gunline armies while your footsloggers waagh run across across the field.

You don't need the heavy armor on the boyz unit nobz, since they will have a large amount of boyz bodies to soak up wounds. That saves some points.

<append>

blast templates are unavoidable. If you aren't going mech you need to compensate by bring large numbers to the table and making sure you don't bunch up models. If the army spams template weapons you are in trouble no matter what you do. Asside from the kommandos option you could also run deffkoptas. Scout move 1st turn armor popping is a great options (make sure they go flat out during scout move incase you go second), or an outflank to split your threats is always nice. Deff koptas need to be small suicide squads. 1 to 2 koptas both with TL rokkits. One kopta should have a buzzsaw to assault rear armor after firing the rokkits. It will scare your enemy and force him to deal with the koptas instead of your boyz for a while.

If you really want to run that full up nob unit on foot then make 2-3 vanilla nobz. That gives you a cheaper dump bucket for instant death wounds.

<append>

Ghazzy is a slow and purposeful movement unit. The only way he will get across the field in a timely manner is with his waagh bonus. Most people run Ghazzy or any other mega armor model in a transport to counter act their slow movement. You might want to consider down grading to a regular PK warboss or a KFF big mech. Ghazzy is a monster though in CC.

unfortunately i cannot field that many kans, ill be using dnaughts to proxy them, so would you recommend switching gazzy to just a warboss with a PK and then fielding several nob squads with 1 pk,boss pole, and a waaagh! banner?

What you are describing really isn't a good 5th edition army. You don't want nobz leading the charge across the board. They will get shot up, and they are too expensive for that. What your footsloggin army needs is a screen to run behind, which is why you needed the kans. We got to protect those boyz somehow. No transports and no kan wall means we have to get creative. What do you have to work with for proxy? Also what kind of armies do you face? Then we can determine where the problem areas lie.

again i will be playing against space wolves eldar and plague marines. ive been doing more and more thinking, and ive heard of Nobz on motorcycles being really great. but i am probably going to throw this list out and restructure it for sunday.

I meant what type of armies are they fielding. Do you see alot of armor? alot of template weapons? Eldar are tough because you are an assault army on foot. Eldar are fleet and fast and will probably be able to dance around you. The Bikes would help. I would have suggested bikes, but it didn't sound like you had anything to use as proxy for a bike.

Nobz on bikes are good. Putting the nobz on bikes fixes two problems. 1) it gets them across the field faster so they don't get shot up as much. 2) It make their survivability go up with the toughness bonus and the other ork bike bonuses to saves. This combine with the painboy and cybork bodies makes a really really hard unit.

It's also really expensive so it's a trade off. People usually concentrate their fire and template on them to try and take them out because they are a hammer unit.

If you are going the nob biker route then why not try a ork biker gang build. Wazdakka(spelling) is a great HQ and bikers become scoring with him in the build. Take him and a couple biker boyz squads (pk/bp nob) and a few small nob biker squads(pks/painboy/cybork/waaghbanner) with maybe some buggies or koptas for rokkit support. This way your entire army will get into combat at the same time, which will be much more effective. Templates will still be the bane of your existance, but that's a fun list to play.

its a friendly group, but we always make fun of the eldar player for being terrible. he fields some pie plates but usually nothing too substantial. just outta curiousity, how many bikes would i be looking at fielding?

a friendly group means you shouldn't be too worried about fielding a truly competitive army.

I'd say at least 2 full units of biker boyz. They are expensive.
at 1500 pts you could field something like this:

HQ
Wazdakka (lets you take war bikers as troops) - ~180
Warboss-Warbike-cybork-PK (lets you take nobz as troops) - ~135
TROOP
5 Nobz -warbikes - all cybork - 1 painboy - 2 PKs - 1 waagh banner - 1 big choppa - 1 bosspole - ~405
12 biker boyz - nob - PK - bosspole - ~340
12 biker boyz - nob - PK - bosspole - ~340
Fast Attack
3 warbuggies - TL rokkits - ~105

The point cost is by memory, but I think it's pretty close.

I'm talking outside my experience. I've never tested this build, but that's 3 really stong units (nobz, waz and 1 boyz squad, warboss and other boyz squad), and a bunch of TL rokkits for shooting anti armor. It should be able to do some damage.

This thread was very helpful. i have been in the mood to start a xenos army but completely unsure which one.

I was brain storming with my pal not too long ago and we figured that a Battle Wagon mech lists was the best way to go. Tons of boys, PKs, waagh Banners etc. All BWs should have red paint job. The way we figured you were getting a turn two assault with tens of boys every game

So it has come to my attention that in terms of biker models, space marine, eldar, dark eldar, chaos etc. we only have about 8 between 6 of us. Its back to the drawing board for me. You guys said it would take 6 kans to make an effective wall? Approx how big are canz on the table, what would be an effective way to proxy them? ogryns? dreadnaughts?

would a good list be something like

warboss pk cybork

nobz Waagh! painboy cybork bosspole x2?

4 30 man boyz squad w/ nob with pk bosspole

and a big mek with a KFF?

i mean we play on a standard 6x4 so it should be terrible difficult to march 12 inches and start krumpin

u could use 2 guys together to simulate a bike if your full on proxying, id try out bikes if i were you its quite strong.

you get a warboss on bike with 8-10 nob bikers with a painboy cybork bodies, and you give each nob a different set of wargear for example nob 1 has a choppa and a kombi flamer, nob 2 has a power klaw, nob 3 has a power klaw and a kombi rocket.. you do this to make them harder to kill, if you do it right a 10 man nob squad with warboss can take 11 wounds before losing 1 nob.

suppliment that with some kommandos and snikrot that come on the table behind them and wreck somthing, for 1500 points id suggest maybe 10 kommandos with snikrot.

you wana fill out with some boys for sure as many as you can fit in, preferably on trucks. Id also get a squad of shoota boys to hold an objective on your side. Obviously this isnt a detailed list but it should give you some direction.

For full-on proxy action, why not some cardboard cut to size? As many bikes as you want, and you can even draw a B on them! The other day, my buddy forgot his rhino and we discovered a 25 pack of cnd cigs is pretty much exact same. Now he's got as many rhinos as he wants lol!

See the Tactics forum for a thread called 'Orky Army Ideas' where i describe my buddy's 1500 pt army...

Its getting close to game day and i think i have something i am happy with

wazdakka gutsmek 180

warboss 0 140
bike 40
pk 25
cybork 10
eavy armor 5

6 nobz 120 415
cyborks 25
warbikes 150
painboy 30
4 big choppa 20
power klaw 25
power klaw 25
waaagh banner 15
boss pole 5

Warbikers
12 300 340
nob 10
pk 25
bosspole 5


Warbikers
12 300 340
nob 10
pk 25
bosspole 5

warbuggies 90 105
3 warbuggies
rokkits 5
rokkits 5
rokkits 5

may be a little tough to read but its essentially the biker list mentioned above, except with an extra nob and a bit more wargear to fill a point gap.
Any more help you guys can give would be appreciated

Howdy doody.

There are two nearly perfect Ork army lists posted in the forums here (what the hell is dakkadakka coming to?!?).
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/265266.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/265245.page

Read both of those and contemplate. While biker nobz as an ork army list require less models and can be quite powerful and hard to deal with....warbikers aren't where you want to be. You can build an ork army list with 22 models. That's two ork warbosses and twenty nobs on bikes. You want them all individually customized for wound allocation, and here's my favorite configuration:

Nobs:
1. Painboy
2. Bosspole
3. Waaaugh! Banner
4. Powerklaw
5. Powerklaw + Ammo Runt
6. Powerklaw + Kombi-skorcha
7. Big Choppa
8. Big Choppa + Ammo Runt
9. Big Choppa + Kombi-skorcha
10. Normal Nob

After a LONG, LONG time testing, I've found that to be the optimal point and utility combination. In doing so, you'll have 10 T5 nobs with two wounds each, and you can literally fail 10 wounds without losing a single model.

Tack on your two warbosses on bikes and you've got your two HQs and two troop choices, and a full army list in 22 models.

By my count that puts you at 1,520 points.

One change you might consider that puts you back under the points limit and gets you more S8 attacks that will hit more often.

The change is to replace your Buggies, with 2 squads of two Kannons. They are small units and in the back, so they likely won't be targeted like the buggies would be rushing up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Then again, I defer to Dash for all things Orky. So try his idea first. xD

Dashofpepper wrote:Howdy doody.

There are two nearly perfect Ork army lists posted in the forums here (what the hell is dakkadakka coming to?!?).
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/265266.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/265245.page

Read both of those and contemplate. While biker nobz as an ork army list require less models and can be quite powerful and hard to deal with....warbikers aren't where you want to be. You can build an ork army list with 22 models. That's two ork warbosses and twenty nobs on bikes. You want them all individually customized for wound allocation, and here's my favorite configuration:

Nobs:
1. Painboy
2. Bosspole
3. Waaaugh! Banner
4. Powerklaw
5. Powerklaw + Ammo Runt
6. Powerklaw + Kombi-skorcha
7. Big Choppa
8. Big Choppa + Ammo Runt
9. Big Choppa + Kombi-skorcha
10. Normal Nob

After a LONG, LONG time testing, I've found that to be the optimal point and utility combination. In doing so, you'll have 10 T5 nobs with two wounds each, and you can literally fail 10 wounds without losing a single model.

Tack on your two warbosses on bikes and you've got your two HQs and two troop choices, and a full army list in 22 models.

you know, i really like this idea! Being as this is my first time playing orks, how might i deploy them and play them? are they a big horde? or are they two split task forces? This probably seems like a fantastic idea for me to field, if you guys could once again now instruct me on how to best utilize these units i would be very pleased.
Thanks in advance.

The way to play that is simply charge forward in a line with PK's on the end and multi assault things. You will usually tear things to shreds and have enough toughness to shrug off shooting.

As for how to deploy and play them, you'll figure it out pretty fast on the table.

T4(5) models can shrug off a lot of stuff. They have a 4+ armor save for being on bikes, a permanent 4+ cover save from their exhaust smoke, and you should give them cybork bodies for 5+ invulnerable saves.

These guys can move 12", shoot, then assault. The models for bikes are big enough that you can spread out and multi-assault several things...you *want* to be in close combat.

Typically, these guys start their first turn by roaring 13-24" across the board (turbo-boosting) which grants a 3+ cover save. Then, on turn 2 they assault....as much of everything as they can handle. You'll get a feel for that after a while. That's basically it; there's no particular tactical play behind it.

Thanks for helping me put this together Dash, im having one problem making the list. Im pricing the biker nob squads at 660 a pop, i am pretty sure this is correct, but im trying to hook in the two warbosses on bikes. im finding myself about 20 points shy of 1500, i am allowed to go 5 over though. Am i supposed to drop some cybork upgrades in order to fit these warbosses in? or how do i do this madness

if its just a friendly game 5 points over is probably fine, up to ur opponent. If you need to drop somthing i would say somthing like an ammo runt or somthing like that.

Your two squads are 656 points apiece as I built them, that puts you at 1312 with 188 points to spare. A warboss(60), on a bike(25), with a powerklaw(25) with Cybork Body(5) is 115. Two of them would be 230 points.

Your list would now be 1542 putting you 42 points over. Drop the normal nob (#10) from each to free up 45 points each (or a total of 90 points). You'll use 42 of those with your warbosses, leaving 48 points. Either give your warbosses attack squigs and figure out what to do with the rest, or put one nob back into one of the squads.

So everybody just packed it in and left for the night, the list worked fantastic! if only my team-mates lists were up to par....at any rate i ended up facing a large force of space wolves and eldar. The mob of nobz tore through everything in their way, terminators , ajack, even the avatar was stomped pretty gud. They were steam rolling pretty well up until they hit a road block of Bjorn the fel handed who gave me some rolling issues. My second squad which was locked in assault was met by a priest who jaws of the world wolfed, which is the absolute bane of these units... All in all it was very fun.
Thanks guys!

Glad it went well. A full up nob biker army is mean. Expect alot of crying if your opponents can't find a way to field it's counter.

I still like the kan wall the best. I just get nervous with the biker lists having that few models on the board. Plus kans and dreads are awesome. If only they would release a plastic kit for them. They either hurt your wallet buying them or sucked up your time converting them.

If you like the biker list then forgeworld makes a biker boss model and nob biker models, which you can use to fill out your army if you don't feel like converting alot or only using the biker boyz box for everything.