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Made in us
Sacrifice to the Dark God Tzeentch



New York

Hey, I'm a relatively new 40k player (3 months) that started playing with my friends. I started 40k by playing horde style Ork lists, but I'm interested in building and using mech based army lists. I have been lurking around DakkaDakka and a few other 40k forums, but I haven't found much advice towards building lists that are smaller than 1850. I found that I'm struggling to include enough in a 1500 point game for mech Orks. Anyway, the following is my list. Any criticisms and suggestions are welcomed:

HQ: Ghazghkull (225) = 225
(Battlewagon A)

HQ: Big Mek (35) = 95
+ kustom forcefield (50)
+ grot oilers x2 (10)
(Battlewagon B)

Elite: Burna Boyz x15 (150) = 225
(Battlewagon B)

Troop: Slugga Boyz x18 (108) = 143
+ (upgrade) Nob; power klaw (35)
(Battlewagon A)

Troop: Slugga Boyz x12 (72) = 157
+ (upgrade) Nob; power klaw, bosspole (35)
+ Trukk; boarding plank, ram, red paint job (50)

Troop: Slugga Boyz x12 (72) = 157
+ (upgrade) Nob; power klaw, bosspole (35)
+ Trukk; boarding plank, ram, red paint job (50)

Troop: Slugga Boyz x12 (72) = 157
+ (upgrade) Nob; power klaw, bosspole (35)
+ Trukk; boarding plank, ram, red paint job (50)

Heavy: Battlewagon A (130)
+ big shoota x1 (5)
+ boarding plank (5)
+ deff rolla (20)
+ red paint job (5)
+ grabbin' klaw (5)

Heavy: Battlewagon B (125)
+ big shoota x1 (5)
+ deff rolla (20)
+ red paint job (5)
+ grabbin' klaw (5)

Fast: Warbuggies x3 (90) = 105
+ twin-linked rokkits x3 (15)

1500
(This list has been updated by the suggestions up to post #7)
-
There is no rams in my list because we never use any difficult terrain in my group of players.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2009/11/19 07:38:12


 
   
Made in gb
Never-Miss Nightwing Pilot





In the Webway.

Sounds like a good list. I would put burnas+Mek in a truck. Make 1 slugga boy unit number 20 and put in a BW. Swap some of the slugga boy squads with either lootas, deffkoptas or dreads.

"The stars themselves once lived and died at our command yet you still dare oppose our will. "-Farseer Mirehn Biellann

Armies at 'The Stand-still Point':

Cap'n Waaagggh's warband (Fantasy Orcs) 2250pts. Waaagghhh! in full flow... W-D-L=10-3-3

Hive Fleet Leviathan Strand 1500pts. W-D-L=7-1-2 Nom.

Eldar armies of various sizes W-D-L 26-6-3

 
   
Made in gb
Plastictrees



UK

Looks like a good list. Remeber to make Ghaz assault something different than the slugga boyz in his BattleWagon


I would give DashofPepper a PM, as he is very good and runs a mech ork list.

WARBOSS TZOO wrote:Grab your club, hit her over the head, and drag her back to your cave. The classics are classic for a reason.
 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Only suggestion I would make.. and it's just an observation really

Boarding planks on trukks seems a waste to me. I don't plan on having my mobs in the trukks long enough to use them. If I'm in assault range, I'd rather jump out and charge.

I like armour plates because it keeps my trukk moving if I'm stunned, but if you don't have the points, I'd still take the ram over the planks.

Trukks can be weapons in their own right. Use them to tank shock lower leadership units. Or tank shock to push units into assault range. Or to block other units from joining melee against your mobs who are already in CC. And at worse, use them against other vehicles. move 18 inches is till str 6 attack. That'll take out a good number of vehicles if you can hit the rear. Ram a dreadnaught and you've got a decent chance to take out a 200 point model with a 50 point trukk... and if you don't, well, you're not out much since an empty trukk has already done it's job - gotten your boyz into real combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The boarding plank on the battle wagon makes sense to me. It's got the armour to take some shots while you get Ghaz up close to whatever you want to pop.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/18 21:40:41


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

*cracks his knuckles*

I'm having a glass of wine, a plate of sliced sharp cheddar cheese, and listening to Static-X while relaxing so you get your own feedback rather than links to book-length posts I've already written.

----------------------

You've done some things right, and some things wrong in several ways.

1. Ghazghkull has mega-armor, and counts as two models. If you're sticking him into a battlewagon, the remaining transport capacity is 18 models. As it stands, you have 19 Orks. Cut one off.

2. You have Deff Rollas on your two battlewagons. Don't get used to the idea. Some venues say that Deff Rollas may not be used against vehicles as absurd as it sounds (and violates the rules), and some rule that it may. Don't put these on your battlewagons without pre-approval from a tournament organizer that its ok, or word from your store owner where you play friendly games that their ruling is the same. My advice for you would be to take them off for now, and learn how to play without them; as you discover venues where its ok, use them.

3. By the same token, don't get comfortable with the idea that you don't need reinforced rams because you and your friends don't play with difficult terrain. The rest of the 40k universe does, and ALL terrain that has any features is difficult terrain. Orks are crazy drivers; do you honestly believe an Ork trukk can go flying through a forest full tilt without even the CHANCE of slamming into a tree and getting stuck? While many places have house rules (as yours apparently does), don't build your army list to cater to or take advantage of house rules that won't apply anywhere outside of your small group.

4. Put another way, you're learning 40k, getting into bad habits now would be disastrous once you start playing in even friendly tournaments. Please....learn to play by the rules, and THEN make exceptions. With that in mind, I would encourage you to put red paint onto your trukks, along with reinforced rams on both them and the battlewagons. Taking out the deff rollas should free up the points to do so.

5. Bosspoles: Why? With Ghazghkull in a mechanized army, you have a 27" assault range. That means that YOU get to dictate the course of the battle. Typically speaking, you're going to spend one turn flying up the field 13", then hoping your KFF gets your vehicles through the shooting that follows. Turn 2, you're going to fly forward up to 13", deploy out 2", bellow out your Waaaugh! and take a free 6" fleet, then assault 6". That's 27", or 40" range on two turns. YOU dictate what gets assaulted, where, and when. The turn you Waaaugh! and charge (it will be no other way) your entire army is fearless for that turn and the following enemy turn. Bosspoles are meaningless here. Armies without Ghazghkull need bosspoles; armies with Ghazghkull don't need them. On the turn you Waaaugh! and charge, one of two things will have happened:
a.) You used your 1500 points like a wrecking ball and absolutely ruined about half of your enemy, meaning the rest of the game is 1500 vs. 750 and a mop-up operation
b.) You didn't use your 1500 points like a targeted wrecking ball, and are voluntarily bending over to examine a broken model on the floor while your opponent finds a new use for the main gun on his predator tank.

IE, either you will decide the game on the turn you charge, or you won't. Either way, you don't need a bosspole with Ghazzy in your army.

6. Did I mention that you should put red paint on your trukks? The entire purpose of your vehicles is to deliver you as quickly as possible into combat. What could be better than getting there 1" faster?

7. Boarding Planks: Ignore jester1525. If you disembark and charge a tank, you have 12 boys swinging at it along with a nob and powerklaw. The boys can't EVER do anything more than glance a vehicle. the nob can handily penetrate and blow it up. If you explode a tank, and your boys all take STR3 hits; you're going to get wounded on 33% of them, or 4 on average, with a 16% chance of saving. Is saving 1/3 of your squad from death worth a 5 point piece of wargear? Especially when the enemy vehicle is packing troops of their own that will countercharge and wipe your boyz unit out. The whole point to mechanized ork assault....the whole reason it wins is because the ORKS get the charge. If you disembark and start charging vehicles, you're giving up the momentum. Don't do it.

8. Armor plates: Ork vehicles are a joke. AV10 all the way around on your trukks and open-topped giving a free +1 on the penetration chart to anything shooting at you; the chances of you being stunned is 16%; not worth the 5 point piece of wargear. Much more likely, you're either going to take an obscured save and ignore it, or you're going to take it in the face and roll on the ramshackle table. You have better things to spend points on. Also keep in mind that an Ork Trukk costs 35 points. Every piece of wargear has its uses, but you have to balance cost and survivability; I've found the balance to be red paint, boarding plank, reinforced ram.

9. Your Burna Boys: Please, please please make this a unit of 15. 15 burna boys means a successful MULTI-ASSAULT. That's a 50% increase in size for a lynchpin unit in your army. If you're having trouble with points, drop a big shoota from each battlewagon too; remember that your big mek gets a 4+ attempt to fix a weapon destroyed or immobilized result every turn, and if he's inside a battlewagon his control radius extends to the hull of the vehicle, and if the vehicle is in base contact with another vehicle....he can fix that one too. These guys really need to be a unit of 15, it makes a world of difference.

If you take off the bosspoles, a big shoota on each battlewagon and the deffrollas, you're left at 1,421 points. Adding 5 burna boys puts you at 1,496. Spend three points and add an ammo runt to Ghazghkull for 1,499. You're sitting at bare-bones vehicles, but give it a try. If I were to change anything from there, I would drop a complete troops choice (you have FIVE in 1500 points), and use those 147 points to add reinforced rams to every vehicle except the two battlewagons which get deffrollas (55 points total), add red paint to every vehicle (25), add a kannon to each battlewagon (20), add a boarding plank on Battlewagon B and give the Mek with the KFF a power klaw (30 points) which leaves 35 points. From there I'd put a grabbin' klaw on each battlewagon (5-10 each), and maybe some big shootas.

Alternatively, stick with the barebones (Albeit with boarding planks, reinforced rams, etc) and add a Deffkopta or two into your fast attack slots with twin-linked rokkits that will either take a scout move pre-turn 1, turbo-boost up the field to be in enemy rear armor on turn1, or use them to outflank and still be in enemy rear armor on turn2-3. My lists typically have 1-2 deffkoptas in them just so that they can mess with rear armor.
------------------------
On that note, this bottle of wine is now empty and my plate of cheese is bare, and the entire Static-X album has expired to the very last song (December) which I don't like, meaning that I've probably been on the soap box long enough.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/11/18 22:37:51


   
Made in us
Major






far away from Battle Creek, Michigan

Follow Dashofpepper's recommendations Boarding planks are great. A nob using a boarding plank crippled the mighty Bjorn the super space wolf dreadnought in one of my games at the Irish GT.

I'm actually not the fond of burnas but use them and see how they go.

PROSECUTOR: By now, there have been 34 casualties.

Elena Ceausescu says: Look, and that they are calling genocide.

 
   
Made in us
Sacrifice to the Dark God Tzeentch



New York

Thank you for the suggestions, especially extra thanks to Dashofpepper. Oh, and as for Deff Rollas... my group does not allow it to be used against vehicles until GW clarifies it.

Dashofpepper wrote:*cracks his knuckles*
If I were to change anything from there, I would drop a complete troops choice (you have FIVE in 1500 points), and use those 147 points to add reinforced rams to every vehicle except the two battlewagons which get deffrollas (55 points total), add red paint to every vehicle (25), add a kannon to each battlewagon (20), add a boarding plank on Battlewagon B and give the Mek with the KFF a power klaw (30 points) which leaves 35 points. From there I'd put a grabbin' klaw on each battlewagon (5-10 each), and maybe some big shootas.

Alternatively, stick with the barebones (Albeit with boarding planks, reinforced rams, etc) and add a Deffkopta or two into your fast attack slots with twin-linked rokkits that will either take a scout move pre-turn 1, turbo-boost up the field to be in enemy rear armor on turn1, or use them to outflank and still be in enemy rear armor on turn2-3. My lists typically have 1-2 deffkoptas in them just so that they can mess with rear armor.


Maybe, it's my lack of experience with playing mech Orkz, but would losing an extra unit of Boyz for bolstering the rest of my army be worth it (or even adding the Deffkoptas)?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

I think so.

You're going to face three scenarios in 40k; two are objective based and one is annihilation based. When I place objective markers for either capture and control or seize ground, I place them all as close as possible to each other, in the middle as much as possible; as a wrecking ball army, I want all the objectives as close together as possible so that I can concentrate my army in one place to win. This sort of makes it almost unfairly in your advantage; even if you're playing seize ground and you get 1 objective to your opponent's two, or two to their three, or you get two each....YOU control where the cluster is.

That means YOU get to decide where on the battlefield the fight is taking place; hopefully as concentrated as possible.

D3+2:

3 Objectives: You either have two placed 12" apart, or you place one 12" away from an opponent's objective so that two are 12" apart, and your opponent places a third wherever. With 3 objectives on the board, two of them are easily taken and controlled by you.
4 Objectives: See above.
5 Objectives: See above. Even if you have 2 to their three, you're able to put 3 objectives within 12" of each other, creating a tight area to fight over which is your orky bread and butter.

A single squad of trukk boys within 2" coherency (and bases being 1") can cover 36". That means that a single squad of trukk boyz can daisy chain and hold three objectives. Point being: Losing a squad of trukk boys means you're down to four troop choices, which is still plenty. In 1850, I'd have 5 troop choices (and add Snikrot+Kommandos) but for 1500 points, 4 troop choices is plenty.

There are only three scenarios you're going to see in 40k; annihilation, capture and control, seize ground. Here's how I play them:

Annihilation: Sweet! My 1500 points flies across the battlefield and crashes into an enemy flank with Ghazghkull on the charge; they wipe out half the enemy army, and my opponent belatedly realizes that the game is pretty much over. Some vehicle losses may happen, but after a few games, you'll learn what your army can take on and what it can't with how many units; IE, losing two trucks and having two boy squads dismounted is meaningful, and practice will show you how it changes what you assault.

Capture and Control: Even MORE sweet! My objective goes as close to the middle of the table as possible; if my opponent placed first, it goes 24" away from his inside my deployment zone, as close as possible. I ignore my objective and focus on tabling my opponent; it works very well - people will split their armies - some to take yours, some to hold theirs, meaning that they're voluntarily sacrificing a segment of their army into your hungry orkish maw. After I eat however much of their army they just suicided at me, I either continue with my efforts to table them, or use a de-trukked boy squad to sit on my objective while the entire rest of my army goes and takes away theirs / kills them.

Seize Ground: I already explained this one.

Basically, I treat ever game like annihilation. With the ability to move a trukk 19" per turn, there's no need to worry about objectives until late game, and you can string boys out to hold more than one objective. Don't worry overmuch about dropping a troop choice, especially at your level. What you gain in return is *very* worthwhile; more durability on your vehicles, and some VERY important outflanking or scouting anti-tank.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also to the OP:

Someone else had a similar list to yours that I critiqued heavily; you could benefit from checking his list and reading some of the comments: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/265245.page#1113036

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/19 00:54:23


   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Okay, here's my problem with the boarding planks. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If I've got 4 trukk full of boyz charging up the flank, my goal is to get them out of the trukk and into hand to hand combat as fast as possible. Once in hand to hand, my opponent can't fire at those boyz. Once I have disposed of my opponents main force, it's mop up time. At that time, assuming I've got a trukk left, I can hop in and chase down his tank, killing it at my leisure.

Or

I can charge 3 trukks full of boyz into the flank and have the other trukk charge at the tank, attempt to blow it up, but for the most part, leave most of my boyz with nothing to do. At the same time, I'm not hitting that flank with everything I've got and taking the chance that I'm not going to decisively win that combat.

That's how I've always looked at boarding planks. On Battle Wagons with Ghaz, I can see it. Or even having one or two of them on trukks, but seems like I'm better off wiping his troops off the table and then chasing down the last bits, including the tank.

Besides, I figure as flimsy as trukks are, I'd just assume not try to assault something from them unless I'm getting everyone out and into CC.

I do absolutely see the point of not taking the armour. If I'm going to get hit, most likely I'm losing the truck anyways, so why bother.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Going back through and reading it again, I absolutely see the point of not disembarking to attack transports. Hadn't really thought of that, but I'm new to 5th edition and not quite used to so many mech armies (3rd didn't seem to have them as much - either that or I just can't remember 10 years ago that clearly.)

Having re-read that, I'm still not convinced that it's the best piece of wargear for a trukk, but I can see the point better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/20 06:26:10


 
   
 
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