Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

We are all aware of Games workshops recent legal assault on every website that could possibly contain either actual offenders or people just promoting a long dead (out of print) game they spent money on and decided to promote.

While I understand that GW has the right to viciously enforce their IP, they also wouldnt be worried about the worth of these games if it wasnt for the hard work of the people who enjoy these games and actively support them on their own time. Time which I do not see GW rewarding in any way other than their actions saying "Even though we abandoned this as a lost bit of IP long ago, thanks for helping make the IP on this old gak worth something, sucker. Give me that before I sue your ass so hard you wont gak for a week!"

I have recently received a few emails, PMs and other communication regarding this issue for support I have done regarding space hulk. One person (who I will credit if he wishes to be known) sent me this excellent link to Board Game Geek (The Board Game Geek website is basically the mecca of not only boardgaming, but more and more with each passing day merely gaming in general. From seriously old to the new hotness.) :

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/48933

Its a compilation of GW seriously grievous slaps to the faces of every person who has EVER supported their games. Obviously there are ways around this issue, and as we all know "You cant stop the signal".

Until GW takes steps to rectify actual IP violation through innovative means, they will continue to violate their consumer base who work VERY hard in promoting products (both old and new) that they not only love, but bought with their hard earned money.

In my not so legally informed opinion there is a very serious breach of not only common usage here but of common sense as well, one which is being over-zealously enforced to the point of threatening their own IP. If there is nobody to promote these games, then the value of the IP is surely lessened.

GW's beancounters and lawyers are classic examples of the old adage: "knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing".

So GW want to run things in a "business-like" manner. Fine. Then instead of a "fan" I will simply become a "customer". And take my custom elsewhere to another company that choses to place real value on my continued enjoyment of their product.

Clearly GW have travelled so far from their roots they have entered another country.

They have morphed from a company run by gamers who didn't understand business into a company run by businessmen who don't understand gamers, and ultimately now ionto a copany run by businessmen who don't even understand good business. Rule number one of good business: don't piss off your customers!

Well, dopey businessmen, do you understand this: I STOPPED BUYING YOUR PRODUCTS A COUPLE OF YEARS BACK. I WON'T START BUYING THEM AGAIN UNTIL YOU LEARN TO BEHAVE YOURSELF WITH DECENCY AND COURTESY TOWARDS YOUR CUSTOMERS.

Clear enough GW board members? I would have thought even a lawyer would understand the implications of that statement.

As an addendum, I really hope that someone stands up and challenges GW over this. They seriously have NO COPYRIGHT over actual rules. It is IMPOSSIBLE to copyright an idea (i.e. how to play a particular game), only the actual phraseology and artistic expression of the rules. So work someone else has done in collating and condensing rules is copyright of the fan who wrote it, not of GW and GW have no right to request its removal from the public domain. Obviously they have copyright over their own original artwork (but not over photographs of that artwork) and certain names can be trademarked, but there are easy editorial solutions to getting around that issue - i.e. take the names out and replace them with non-trademarked ones! And in any case, there is a very strong case that using trademarked names in a review is actually "fair use" and nothing GW can prevent.

Someone needs to stick two very large fingers up to GW and to make them get the feth out of work that is not theirs to claim opyright over!

Obviously GW want to retain as much control over their IP as they can so they can sell it on to 3rd parties. But doing so by actually claiming copyright over items that they do not have any actual copyright over is a complete douche move and something that deserves to earn them a kick in the nuts!

Jesus... they're going after everything. Excel files for making a Tau army list? Space Crusade summaries. fething Car Wars?

My God...

Wow, I feel I've had my head buried in the sand for so long.

According to the GW site, you can't even get a tattoo depicting their IP? Really. Would they really stoop so low as to sue someone for having a tattoo? Or, you can't start a gaming club and call it the 'Warhammer Club'. Really? Did they just hire a bunch of overzealous young attorneys trying to flex their knowledge?

This really makes me a sad person.

GW follows the motto treat em mean keep em keen.

I think it works. sadly.

I have to say if they ever shut down dakka, Then Ill probably stop playing.

This is sickening behaviour, this company is wildly out of touch with the ideals of good customer service or any kind of relationship with it's fanbase other than that of an abusive pimp.

They can issue more and more threatening letters to the very fan base that has supported them all these years, they can find more and more small indy companies to beat on.

What they do not understand is that those who are attacked are talking to one another and to the rest of us, because GW refuses to acknowlege the existance of the internet other than as a risk to their cash milking because it is 'outside their control'. Instead of seeking means of cooperation they seek to bully and cow the very people who have paid their wages for the last 30 years.

We will show them the error of their ways.

Make a stand, cease your GW purchases, seek out new games and new miniature manufacturers. Expand your interest, stop being a 40ker and become a WARGAMER.

Spread the word, fight the power, become the signal.

Spend your Christmas money elsewhere. I urge you to try new systems or alternative ranges but failing that, just get something that isn't a GW product, a computer game or a bottle of scotch or the complete DVD series of that show you used to love.

Deny them your money when they treat us all like dirt.

Agreed.
As already said, its stupid that they actually ruin the fun of gaming, and that is making them better.

PS. Seriously, you cant have a tattoo which says Warhammer(insert question mark).

I better go paint something, before I do something really drastic... like closing buglands and trash my GW stuff...

Navarro, seriously, you have the greenstuff skills to sculpt an entire range of your own bugs or work in conjuction with those nice folks at Trollforged miniatures to produce a range of 'Hivemind Tyrant-swarms' alternative 28mm heroic scale space horror aliens...

Well I won't be buying anything new for the foreseeable future.

Chainsaw Warrior? I mean seriously GW, you're never going to bring that back.

As for some of the others, barmy. I assume all the Warhammer Quest fan sites have been hit with the extra rules and new warriors?

I might have some of that on my new PC, not 100% though, will need to check.

They *can't* bring back Judge Dredd and Rogue Trooper unless they pay thr licences to have the right to them again. I'm not even sure who the IP belongs to in those cases.

Wow, talk about strom trooper moves....

Howard A Treesong wrote:They *can't* bring back Judge Dredd and Rogue Trooper unless they pay thr licences to have the right to them again. I'm not even sure who the IP belongs to in those cases.

Both would be 2000AD/whoever publishes that comic.

Like what was said up above, I really hope that someone challenges GW on this.

They'd gone too far and now it seems that they're going the whole 9 yards. What's next?

Probably telling Dakka and CMON and Warseer to take down their respective galleries because it has pictures of their models.

:edit: You should post this on Warseer. Will probably get deleted though. :/

i can't stand them even more as of late.

Can you ahev something that pertains to warhammer? I know a guy who has the khorne symbol tattoed on him is he getting sued.

Vladsimpaler wrote:Like what was said up above, I really hope that someone challenges GW on this.

They'd gone too far and now it seems that they're going the whole 9 yards. What's next?

Probably telling Dakka and CMON and Warseer to take down their respective galleries because it has pictures of their models.

:edit: You should post this on Warseer. Will probably get deleted though. :/

It will have to come to that if they are serious of protecting their IP, its only a matter of time if they keep going. and when CMON or dakka gets a mail, i quit buying alltogether and switch to other companies..

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:They *can't* bring back Judge Dredd and Rogue Trooper unless they pay thr licences to have the right to them again. I'm not even sure who the IP belongs to in those cases.

Both would be 2000AD/whoever publishes that comic.

Aye, but did the rights for the whole game revert back to them effectively allowing them to publish the game or do Games Workshop hold rights to the game mechanics while 2000AD hold the rights to the Dredd/Rogue images? Meaning it can never see a release unless one side buy rights from the other? I don't know, the same applies to the Doctor Who games and anything else they licenced. Anwyay, none of these stand a snowball in hell's chance of being re-released.

I think this is ridiculous treatment of their customers and fans, and to think theyre a PLC!!

I say we spread their IP's around as much as we can to give em' a real job to do!

The JD board game was a great game, but there are other Judge Dredd and Doctor Who games and figures.

It wouldn't be hard to make your own set of JD if you wanted. The artwork is the big problem. The rules are very simple.

Someone commented on our club board that he hears they just renewed their copyrights, and a friend speculated this all may have something to do with that.

Alrighty then.

It's time we took a stand Dakka. If we let this continue, GW may decide that Dakka Dakka itself is infringement, and Lord knows that none of us want this great site to close down.

I'm writing a letter to Jervis Johnson right now, and I suggest you do so as well. I don't care how long he's been with GW, what they're doing right now is insanity. Soon, maybe CMON might not be allowed to have GW models on the site, the words Warhammer won't be allowed on the site, etc.

We as hobbists cannot simply watch as GW tries to control any and everything they can. They need to know that veterans and new players alike are mad as hell.

Cryonicleech wrote:Alrighty then.

It's time we took a stand Dakka. If we let this continue, GW may decide that Dakka Dakka itself is infringement, and Lord knows that none of us want this great site to close down.

I'm writing a letter to Jervis Johnson right now, and I suggest you do so as well. I don't care how long he's been with GW, what they're doing right now is insanity. Soon, maybe CMON might not be allowed to have GW models on the site, the words Warhammer won't be allowed on the site, etc.

We as hobbists cannot simply watch as GW tries to control any and everything they can. They need to know that veterans and new players alike are mad as hell.

I agree with you except for the whole "Dakka Dakka being an infringement". There is a TM next to Dakkadakka which means that GW can't get all uppity over us.

So if they want to try and screw with us, well, they're doing so at their own risk! (I actually hope that they try so that they fail terribly. )

That's good to know, at least.

God, will it ever end!
(end dramatics)

Seriously though, they are taking this crap a little too far. They get billed, hourly, for all the legal work so I have to ask where's the business payoff in bullying smalltime webboards that promote their products?

Howard A Treesong wrote:They *can't* bring back Judge Dredd and Rogue Trooper unless they pay thr licences to have the right to them again. I'm not even sure who the IP belongs to in those cases.

Mongoose Publishing have the rights to JD But is Rebellion who deside where Rogue Trooper goes.

Ok, first of all, the whole Tattoo thing is based on the fact that they "assume" you paid a thrid party to detail the tattoo on your body, this is the breach of their I.P, as it effectively means a thrid party (unassociated with GW) has earned an income from their I.P.

Now, it would be (practically) impossible to sue anyone for having a tattoo made, for one thing, they have the legal duty to PROVE you paid a third party to complete the tattoo! Unless the Tattoo artist was "stupid" enough to declare on their tax records that they completed a WH40K (for example) tattoo on your body, there is actually no viable proof a financial transaction took place......you could say, I tattoo'd myself, in a one off spurt of artist genius, that I have absolutely no chance of repeating.....job done.

So from an I.P point of view, some of it is impossible to actually police and even harder to take to court.

On the other point of continued support of GW. Well, its great that people are taking this opportunity to spread their wings and search for alternative products....whether that will dent GW overal output, is and should be neither here nor there, as soon as you break away from their strangle hold on your hobby, the freer you will be!

Kilkrazy wrote:
The JD board game was a great game, but there are other Judge Dredd and Doctor Who games and figures.

It wouldn't be hard to make your own set of JD if you wanted. The artwork is the big problem. The rules are very simple.

JD has is special to me because it was the first GW game I ever played, probably aged about 6. The first game in their Warhammer canon was Space Hulk which we had a couple of years later.

Where are the apologists?

right here-- maybe you guys are over-.. umm.. maybe they're just.. you really shouldn't all be so rash.. err.. I got nothing.