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I can't speak for Total Wargamer or their own various issues but as we are discussing these kind of things and we have been brought up in the conversation, I'd appreciate your indulgence to address a few points if I may.

It is difficult to run a successful business in the wargaming and tabletop hobby world - especially when you get to the size we are at Wayland Games (Europe's largest independent retailer in the industry). This is made more difficult when online behemoths such as Amazon are able to give a distorted set of expectations to customers as to when an order would be delivered. Amazon and their like are massive. Compared to our industry they have a degree of sophistication and logistical support that could swallow all of the major companies involved in wargaming in the blink of an eye. The only company that comes close to them in terms of size is Games Workshop, but then you are comparing a 200 million dollar business with a 70+ billion dollar business. Not even remotely in the same league.

We usually hold the best part of two million dollars of stock at any given moment. That said, with roughly 25,000 product lines available to customers on our store - it is not possible to hold multiple items of each in stock at any given time. We do try and hold some stock of the more popular ranges, but even then restrictions placed on us by key manufacturers on aspects such as the number of times we can order in a week or the amount we are allowed to order, can make maintaining that surplus stock very difficult.

Most of our customers come to our site to purchase, at a reasonable discount, miniatures and games by some of the most well known manufacturers in the industry such as Games Workshop, Battlefront, Privateer Press and others. We are not what most would call a 'deep discounter', nor do we offer large chunks of our inventory at 30% off or more. Though there no doubt is a short term appetite for huge discounts - we don't think they are sustainable either by the industry itself or by any business in particular. Poor financial and stock management has been the downfall of several of the larger retailers in the tabletop gaming market as well as many of the smaller ones.

Providing the most sought after products to a wide customer base is one of the things that Wayland tries really hard to do. When these are supplied by large manufacturers, they have (on the whole) reasonably developed supply infrastructure but are all to often let down by poor stock levels or distant manufacture in Asia which causes certain lines to go out of stock for long periods of time. When this happens there is usually little or no information being passed onto distributors or retailers. Even companies like Games Workshop will on occasion misjudge the popularity of certain products and have difficulty in supplying them (remember the Tau Empire launch issues from last year?)

Delays in supply are not limited to the big boys however.

A key part of our mission is to try and offer as wide a range of products as possible. Many of the products we have on our site aren't available anywhere else, or are difficult to find. We are able to use our position to bring to the community many new ranges that otherwise might not get the recognition they deserve. We have a design and marketing team who work closely with our Operations team to try and show this miniatures in the best light possible - with coverage in newsletters as well as on our site.

This wide range and high profile does come with its own inherent difficulties. Some of these new manufacturers cannot supply the products as quickly as larger companies can (for a variety of reasons). This can cause some delays when such a product is included in an order with ranges that we already have in stock or can get into stock quite quickly (typically 3-9 working days for most of our inventory). Despite their initial confidence and promises, it can mean that these rangers take far longer to materialise (or in some extremely rare cases fail to materialise at all).

Our strategy is one of long term growth and development. We believe that customers need to have a number of retail brands they can trust - and we understand that at times that trust has been sorely tested. We are trying to do better, and although there are doubtless those who will seek any opportunity to throw stones our way, we genuinely want to work to improve things. Because of this we've invested almost 100,000 GBP in staff and technology to improve our customer experience. Regardless, as a retailer we are only able to work with the information we are supplied.

We have a six person operations team (of which I am part) who spend every working hour of every working day speaking to customers, manufacturers and suppliers trying to get new and existing ranges into stock so that we can supply them across the world. We have dedicated customer service staff with tools such as our helpdesk, email, social media and live chat in an effort to make us the most accessible and most communicative retailer in the industry.

We don't always get it right, but we are working hard to try and improve with each customer we speak to. Those who may have had a negative experience in the past I ask to try us again, you will notice a positive change (I hope!).

Thanks for your time.

Though this is straying a tiny bit off topic from totalwargamer (who, as mentioned, have had their own issues). Customers are quite happy if they're kept informed about things, even if there is delays.

For example, say, l do make that order of a bunch of different things from different companies and, all I see is a little 'Awaiting Stock' comment on my order history for weeks at a time. I may be rather miffed at this. However, if it is, say, one random blister that's holding up my £100 order, I'd quite like to know that. - It may very well be that I added it in on a whim because it looks cool, than it being a vital lynchpin in my gaming plans for the next year. So, a wee note/comment saying, "sorry, this things holding it up, ring us up and have a chat" can be pretty good.

(Albeit, bringing it back to topic, TotalWargamer last I heard had turned their phone line into a robot).

I ordered a bunch of Dropzone Commander models before Christmas from Wayland as gifts, one of these I picked up was the Kodiak vehicle. I came back a week or so later, saw that it was now at the sort of out of stock label (whatever it was), so, I run up Wayland, inquired about my order where, yeah, the guys there said that it was the Kodiak holding things up. So, a couple of minutes afterwards, I'd swapped it out for some other models for the same price, order was sorted, I was happy and....

Christmas was saved!

Yeah, sorta. It was a Christmas gift to myself. - But still, the sentiment is there.


To be honest, Wayland are getting a bit better at that now than most other companies, as with my last order with them, after a period of time, I did get this email

you placed with us here at Wayland Games. Unfortunately we are still waiting on your products to arrive at our warehouse from the supplier and this has meant that your order will not be with you within the 3-9 Working days we would typically expect it to be.

You have our sincere apologies for this delay. You do not need to take any further action at this stage, rest assured we are working with our suppliers to get your products with you as soon as we can. We will update you next week with either confirmation it has been dispatched to you or an update with how your order is progressing.

Best Regards,

Wayland Games.

Which, you know, isn't bad at all. Especially since it arrived 2 days later, but hey, the thought counts.

In any case, communication good. Communication that is... Not Entirely Honest. (like, "we'll get your order out next week" "your refund has been processed, it's your bank delaying it.") Very bad.

Yeah. If you guys placed a note with similar contents as your (Jake Wayland)'s post on the front page of your website, I'll bet your customer e-mails would go down by half.

That being said, one thing that really annoys me about Wayland is that some of their products - which have been permanently out of stock for at least a YEAR, are still listed on the website with the Out of Stock sticker. That's annoying, as they then still continue to show up in search results and give the customer a false glimmer of hope for one split second. Like the Space Marine Whirlwind, or the Citadel Moonscape.

Thanks Sir Arun,

I appreciate that while it can be briefly frustrating that there are unavailable products listed on the site, feedback has indicated that it is better to provide this information rather than not have the products listed at all and cause customers to repeatedly contact us asking about them.

Of course it would just be easier if certain manufacturers allowed us to stock their entire range, but apparently that's not possible!

Thanks

I ordered from Total Wargamer on 13th Jan. Spoke to them once a week since then regarding my order and each time they said they'd be posting my order within a couple of days. I've just received an e-mail from the today explaining that the items are out of stock and they're awaiting delivery before sending me my items. Appalling customer service. Will never order from them again. I've requested a full refund.

Tried them once, waited THREE weeks whilst they were 'awaiting stock' and each time I e-mailed I got a different excuse.

One was about stock, one was about recent additions to the family (which if you ask me shouldn't interfere with your -job-) and one was the order still being processed.

Ordered elsewhere, got within a week.

TWG just seem intent on taking money then never delivering.

No, I'll take issue with that.

To my knowledge, nobody has failed to get either their product or their money back from TWG, certainly don't think anyone in this thread has been in that situation.

The issue with TWG is poor comms and extremely slow delivery/refunds, not taking people's money - which is a very different and much more serious accusation.

Also, while I'd agree that it is likely an excuse in this context, I assume you've never had a baby or run a small business if you think that it would be possible for one not to interfere with the other at least a little, especially a newborn.

 azreal13 wrote:
No, I'll take issue with that.

To my knowledge, nobody has failed to get either their product or their money back from TWG, certainly don't think anyone in this thread has been in that situation.

*Waves* Me, me, me.

I got my money back from my bank.

Fair enough, but I'd still mark that up to incompetence rather than theft, which is a huge difference.

 Compel wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
No, I'll take issue with that.

To my knowledge, nobody has failed to get either their product or their money back from TWG, certainly don't think anyone in this thread has been in that situation.

*Waves* Me, me, me.

I got my money back from my bank.

And I'm guessing your bank got their money back from TWG?

I'm awaiting an order from total wargamer. Despite knowing the reputation it was a considerable bulk order so the discount was a big decider.
As it happens the discount was gone from the site when I came to order, so I messages twg on fb enquiring about future sales, to which they very quickly replied an error had been made and they processed an override to reinstate the discount. I proceeded to order, now two and a half weeks later I'm still waiting I have been in touch to be told the supplier is waiting on a component before shipping them to twg at which point it will be express shipped to me,

If it weren't for the reputation it wouldn't be an issue (delays happen), so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Will I order again? It will depend of the promise of delivery this week is kept

Ah, Wayland, still up to their old tricks. Made an order on the 30th with all items "Available" and lo behold, today I get one of those notes saying they're still awaiting stock. Let me guess... they're busy moving their warehouse?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Ah, Wayland, still up to their old tricks. Made an order on the 30th with all items "Available" and lo behold, today I get one of those notes saying they're still awaiting stock. Let me guess... they're busy moving their warehouse?

Hi Lord Blackfang, to be frank I think your tone is a little harsh. I know of no other retailer in this market more open and communicative than Wayland.

We carry as Jake mentioned over 25,000 lines. It is simply impossible for us to keep all of them in stock at all times. The funds required would be an unreasonable and would not generate enough return to justify. We also don't have unlimited resources. Add to this that the wargames market has one of the least sophisticated supply chains in the modern world and you are left with the situation as it is now.

As has been mentioned on here before and it states it clearly on our website, available means we believe its available or is on its way for us in a restock. If there is a number next to it then it means we have spare stock immediately available, and if you order an item that indicates that the items are in stock you will pretty much have the items dispatched same day. We get almost no information from suppliers as to what is and isn't available. And that is the case for pretty much every range we carry. As an example an order placed late last week with one supplier had 2.5% of the stock available. Yes Two point five percent.

Re your mention of warehouse move, we are in our fifth warehouse since we opened our doors, the last move was a truly epic task and anyone who has visited us will be able to confirm that a lot of work went into the buildings and infrastructure. We have never made excuses we have always been open honest and available to respond to customers. We hope that we need to move every year However we moved this time (nearly 2 years ago now) so that we had a huge amount of room to expand into, and any growth will be taken up by acquiring more warehouses on our existing estate. As I have said before we are not perfect but I cannot believe any entity tries harder in this market than us to always do the right thing.

We have loads of changes planned over the next few months and every one is focused an making us more communicative and easier to shop with.

Sorry, "tricks" might have not been the best word and I didn't mean to imply any sort of fraudulent behavior if that's how it came across.

Your product line is impressive and that's what ropes me in about once a year when I can't find something anywhere else, but I'm sorry to say it's always an aggravating experience.

An update on my order: I previously requested a refund after being messed around but heard nothing from them. I then e-mailed them again telling them I'd hand the issue over to my bank if they weren't going to refund me asap and they promptly responded saying they had already refunded. They hadn't. They then said they'd 'check with their payment vendor' and came back to me to say the vendor has an issue with their refunds at the moment and I may not get my refund for 14 working days but they weren't really sure.

An absolute disgrace from start to finish. I'll never attempt to do business with them again.

Just so there's no confusion, I want to point out that the above poster is talking about Total Wargamer, not Wayland.

This is about Total War Gamer

I ordered some items two weeks ago. Luckily it is pay the courier so not paid for them till I get the item

I items were pre released dwarfs, I did not expect the items to be shipped till saturday or monday and for them to come late this week or maybe next week.

But trying to get ahold of the customer service for TGT is non-existent . 4 days, an e-mail every day to them and still no response. Can not phone them due to they put all calls to an automatic answering phone.

There might be a high volume of calls to them reason why they gone to e-mail only. But then you expect them to answer the e-mails same day if not 2 days later.

Just my 2 cents

Placed quite an order (225 pounds, damn it) mid November 2013. Starting to worry about it 2 weeks later (estimated delivery delay). Still did not receive the order yet (mid april 2014). Nevertheless every mail I sent was replied quickly and politely. Now that GW is very restrictive about Webstore only article I believe I will never receive the finecast that were part of the command (and most ironically motivated this first and last command on their site) and I have to find how to replace it with other plastic articles if I hope to be delivered one day (at best).

Flee away from total wargamer ! There are other retailers with almost as good a discount (20 or even 25%), those 30% discount from total wargamer look very attractive but are really not worth the pain in the ass.

As i have said before:

When i ordered stuff, i did have one item not turn up.
Upon being informed of this, they sent it promptly.

I would buy from TWG again.

Right now I have ordered some stuff from this site and it has yet to be shipped, even though I bought the items on 30th last month. Sent an email asking for information of shipping times but TW hasn't replied it it yet. This deeply annoys me because I have bought from them 3 times already and they had much faster delivery

You can't say you weren't warned....

Had problems with an order, asked for a refund, had problems with refund, bank involved finally got my money back.

Would never consider using TWG again, terrible customer service.... scratch that terrible service full stop.

 azreal13 wrote:
You can't say you weren't warned....

PP has shown themselves to not really care about selling their product outside America, so I guess the last orders were just lucky.

That doesn't make any odds, you've purchased from TWG, if they're offering things for sale that they can't easily source, and they're not up front about the availability or are poor about communicating order progress or processing cancellations and refunds, NONE of that is related to PP and any perceived notion you have of whether they care or not.

For the record, people in a position to know say that PP have a very chaotic production facility, and so they struggle to produce a) as much product as they should and b) enough product to meet demand, so while there is a recognised problem with PP stock, it isn't that they don't 'care,' quite the contrary they will care very much about getting stock everywhere that wants to buy it, they just can't right now.

Nothing to do with TWG repeatedly letting down customers though.

 azreal13 wrote:
That doesn't make any odds, you've purchased from TWG, if they're offering things for sale that they can't easily source, and they're not up front about the availability or are poor about communicating order progress or processing cancellations and refunds, NONE of that is related to PP and any perceived notion you have of whether they care or not.

For the record, people in a position to know say that PP have a very chaotic production facility, and so they struggle to produce a) as much product as they should and b) enough product to meet demand, so while there is a recognised problem with PP stock, it isn't that they don't 'care,' quite the contrary they will care very much about getting stock everywhere that wants to buy it, they just can't right now.

Nothing to do with TWG repeatedly letting down customers though.

PP's products for Europe will be sourced from Cerberus in Liverpool.

I've also had BBB times I've used total way gamer first time it took over a month to get my order which meant it missed my sins birthday and second time I gave up asked for a refund and then had to fight to get my money back as they kept saying they had already refunded!

It's not the way I'd run a business

Apart from this site, who would have the best discounts in Privateer Press product?

Total Wargamer in my experience don't give a stuff about fulfilling orders, they're happy to take your money and then just leave you hanging. Doesn't matter how long you wait(2 weeks or 2 months), they just give you the 'it'll be in stock soon' answer when you contact them. You then wait another week or two and get the same answer again. It even takes weeks and several emails to get them to give you a refund. Either they're just really bad at their jobs, or they're doing something fishy...

Seeing this thread just made me remeber that back in June 2013 they look my £30 with nothing to show for it!

After 4 weeks of constant emails asking where my Eldar codex was I just gave up...

American Express got my money back for me.

Take my advice and leave well alone....Darksphere are reliable