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Which re-roll do I use?

I have a squad with a Commissar, which is also within range of a regimental standard. The squad takes casualties and fails its leadership check.

1. Which re-roll do I apply - the execution or the standard?

2. Can I apply both, and if so which one do I apply first? Is Sarge copping it in the back or what?

For point 1, my line of thinking is that the RS would apply first, as the Commissar's execution only takes place if the squad is going to flee otherwise. The RS insipres them to fight harder, so its like they never broke in the first place.

As for point 2, I've always played that you can never re-roll a re-roll, is this still true in 5th ed? I played a ton of 2nd a bit of 3rd, totally missed 4th with a 6 or 7 year hiatus.
This would make the commissar's execution rule (or the RS depending on the answer to point 1) redundant, at least while the squad is within range of the RS, although the squad still benefits from his ld9.

Only one reroll - page 2 of the main rulebook. ;-)

I'd say you use whichever reroll you wish as neither source states it takes precedence over the other. If you fail the Comissar is still going to execute someone for it but you can't get a reroll of a reroll so they will fall back.

My 2 cents at least.

Neither has a precedence. I would recommend the standards, due to it not costing you a model in the unit.

There are two lines of thought:

1. Both the Commissar and the Standard's effects kick in at the same time after you fail the leadership test the first time. You get two rerolls, only one of which you can use, and one dead sergeant.

2. The Standard can be applied before the Commissar. If this second leadership test is failed, then a sergeant dies and you get a second reroll, which you cannot use.

The INAT FAQ agrees with the second interpretation, so that's the one I use.

Taken from by website, WargamingFAQs.Com:

IG.32.03 -- Q: If a unit containing a Commissar fails a Morale check but can re-roll that test (such as with a Regimental Standard), can they do so, or does "Summary Execution" immediately kick in?

A: A model is still removed via "Summary Execution", regardless of the method that the squad employs to gain a re-roll, as the removal is a result of failing the morale test in the first place. Remember that you can only re-roll a dice once. [R.a.W]

Gwar, gotta admit we're gonna disagree on this one. Commissar doesn't shoot someone until after the unit fails a test. If I choose tho use the Satndard for a reroll, I havne't failed a test if I pass the reroll, so the Commissar doesn't shoot.

don_mondo wrote:Gwar, gotta admit we're gonna disagree on this one. Commissar doesn't shoot someone until after the unit fails a test. If I choose tho use the Satndard for a reroll, I havne't failed a test if I pass the reroll, so the Commissar doesn't shoot.

Nothing kicks in. If a unit fails a test, the Commissar executes somone. It happens when it happens. You have to fail a test in order to re-roll, and before you re-roll (or at the same time, matters not) the Commissar is bolt-pistoling the poor guardsmen of highest rank.

Now, in terms of which re-roll to use? One in mandatory (Commissar) and one is optional (Regimental standard). Although upon further reading whilst the Commissar entry does indeed say "must" there is no "may" I thought would be including in the Regimental Standard entry.

So one reroll and sarge eats it. Thats what I expected. Thanks guys.

The commissars one pissed off dude.

Razerous wrote:

don_mondo wrote:Gwar, gotta admit we're gonna disagree on this one. Commissar doesn't shoot someone until after the unit fails a test. If I choose tho use the Satndard for a reroll, I havne't failed a test if I pass the reroll, so the Commissar doesn't shoot.

Nothing kicks in. If a unit fails a test, the Commissar executes somone. It happens when it happens. You have to fail a test in order to re-roll, and before you re-roll (or at the same time, matters not) the Commissar is bolt-pistoling the poor guardsmen of highest rank.

Now, in terms of which re-roll to use? One in mandatory (Commissar) and one is optional (Regimental standard). Although upon further reading whilst the Commissar entry does indeed say "must" there is no "may" I thought would be including in the Regimental Standard entry.

Except that you haven't failed until after the standard reroll. Just like you don't have to make an armor save on a gets hot roll of 1 if you are allowed to reroll it unless the reroll is a 1. It's as if the first roll never happened. Well, if it never happened, why is the Commissar going to shoot someone?

don_mondo wrote:

Razerous wrote:

don_mondo wrote:Gwar, gotta admit we're gonna disagree on this one. Commissar doesn't shoot someone until after the unit fails a test. If I choose tho use the Satndard for a reroll, I havne't failed a test if I pass the reroll, so the Commissar doesn't shoot.

Nothing kicks in. If a unit fails a test, the Commissar executes somone. It happens when it happens. You have to fail a test in order to re-roll, and before you re-roll (or at the same time, matters not) the Commissar is bolt-pistoling the poor guardsmen of highest rank.

Now, in terms of which re-roll to use? One in mandatory (Commissar) and one is optional (Regimental standard). Although upon further reading whilst the Commissar entry does indeed say "must" there is no "may" I thought would be including in the Regimental Standard entry.

Except that you haven't failed until after the standard reroll. Just like you don't have to make an armor save on a gets hot roll of 1 if you are allowed to reroll it unless the reroll is a 1. It's as if the first roll never happened. Well, if it never happened, why is the Commissar going to shoot someone?

Because the Commissar shoots them before you would get a re-roll in the first place. So you can expand that to include any re-roll as all re-rolls are the same.

don_mondo wrote:

Razerous wrote:

don_mondo wrote:Gwar, gotta admit we're gonna disagree on this one. Commissar doesn't shoot someone until after the unit fails a test. If I choose tho use the Satndard for a reroll, I havne't failed a test if I pass the reroll, so the Commissar doesn't shoot.

Nothing kicks in. If a unit fails a test, the Commissar executes somone. It happens when it happens. You have to fail a test in order to re-roll, and before you re-roll (or at the same time, matters not) the Commissar is bolt-pistoling the poor guardsmen of highest rank.

Now, in terms of which re-roll to use? One in mandatory (Commissar) and one is optional (Regimental standard). Although upon further reading whilst the Commissar entry does indeed say "must" there is no "may" I thought would be including in the Regimental Standard entry.

Except that you haven't failed until after the standard reroll. Just like you don't have to make an armor save on a gets hot roll of 1 if you are allowed to reroll it unless the reroll is a 1. It's as if the first roll never happened. Well, if it never happened, why is the Commissar going to shoot someone?

And by that reasoning:
1. You roll to hit, and the result indicates that the shot would miss.
2. You say, "Aha, I have a rule which says I can re-roll misses."
3. You're logic kicks in and says that it's not a miss until after the re-roll, therefore you can't re-roll. Thus negating the ability to re-roll.