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Made in ca
Implacable Black Templar Initiate





Ottawa, Canada

When i first saw the plastic Valkyrie model i joked with my brother that it would be awesome to buy one and convert it into a Spectre/Spooky style gunship. That was ages ago and this christmas while exploring Dakka i found a blog by Deewalla (found here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/259820.page ) which had done just that... or at least had started to do just that. The blog is pretty old and incomplete. I was inspired so off to ebay i went. There i was able to buy a Valkyrie for about $30 Canadian and with a little plasticard, glue and ideas taken from Insaniak and LBursley i got started on an Imperial Guard Valkyrie Spectre.

After countless campaigns against the endless Ork Waaaghs throughout the galaxy it became clear that while the Waaagh was effective while en masse, smaller Ork gatherings are easy to disrupt and annihilate through night time attacks from the air. While larger Waaaghs can be very technologically advanced, most generally lack the equipment and or ability to effectively defend from air assault during the night. At first Vulture Gunships, and Valkyrie Vendettas were used for such operations, but the design of these aircraft meant that only strafing runs were possible and the aircraft spent much of their fuel circling an enemy positions in order to line up for the next run.
To better use their time on target, Valkyrie gunners upgraded there heavy bolters to more power assault or punisher cannons and pilots of these aircraft began to circle targets allowing these weapons to be used continuously. To up the power even more, and to better penetrate thicker Ork armour and buildings some crews added an artillery piece or lascannon.
And with that the Valkyrie Spectre was born. With dedicated weapon hard points and the combination of rate of fire, penetrating power and the psychological fear the Spectre circles Orks settlements and camps like and avenging angel from heaven, raining fire and lead unto those unfortunate enough to have ventured into the night.

Bring the Rain

anyway so i am thinking: an earthshaker cannon (or something like that... i don't think there are any rules in 40k for 105 howitzers), a punisher cannon, and either an autocannon or a lascannon, all side mounted, and with a fully functioning and realistic interior that is going to accessible and visible thanks to a removable roof.
As of today i have finshed most of the weapons (las needs some work and the earthshaker which is from forgeworld arrived warped and needs some straightening, but over all everything is done.) And the side of the cargo area which will have all the weapons poking through, i just finished today.
One of the most difficult aspects of this build is the wings of the Valkyrie itself. As most of you know the wings are bent downward and although very pretty, the wings of a C-130 are straight and well out of the way. This has made me wonder whether i should alter the wings so that they are straight, or straighter. Doing this would open up a can of engineering headaches... how to move the landing gear, what to do about the wingtip engins... and on and on... but that is later. For now i am focused on the inside of the Valk.

Anyway, here is what i have got so far.
[Thumb - AC-130H_Spectre.jpg]
A Spectre gunship from the side

[Thumb - img_7958.jpg]
my Punisher Cannon with a scale reference

[Thumb - img_7959.jpg]
Autogun

[Thumb - img_7961.jpg]
Forgeworld autocannon that i order... you can see that is slightly warped

[Thumb - img_7962.jpg]
Left side of the Valkyrie

[Thumb - img_7963.jpg]
a few rivets to keep things looking neat and consistent

This message was edited 25 times. Last update was at 2010/04/20 16:17:29


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Made in ca
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





Vancouver

Sounds like an awesome idea, the punisher cannon looks ace!


95% of teens would go into a panic attack if the jonas brothers were about to jump off the empire state building copy and paste this if you are the 5% who would pull up a lawn chair grab some popcorn and yell JUMP BITCHES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Made in be
Renegade Kan Killin Orks






Belgium

That's a nice punisher, looking forward to the rest.
Maybe you should widen the wings a bit with plasticard? That way the downward slope at the end would be less of a problem, not to mention that a valk carrying this much heavy gear would need more lift then a regular valk.

If brute force doesn't help, you're not applying enough!

A Squeaky Waaagh!!

 
   
Made in au
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant





An unknown location in the Warp

i love that punisher cannon



No pity.
No remorse.
No bacon.

 
   
Made in ca
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





Ottawa, ON

CommissarKhaine wrote:That's a nice punisher, looking forward to the rest.
Maybe you should widen the wings a bit with plasticard? That way the downward slope at the end would be less of a problem, not to mention that a valk carrying this much heavy gear would need more lift then a regular valk.


Considering the bird likely drops its heavy bolter "sponson" guns because of the lack of side doors now; as well with all this equipment it would definitely not be transporting 12 man squads loaded to the nuts with equipment into battle; I wouldn't see it as an issue for the Valk to carry the weight of those three weapons. Unless he tries to make it a Vendetta as well with the 6 lascannons strapped to it.

Forge World had these things carrying Sentinels into combat; mounting punisher cannons under each wing, and a number of other configurations; so I think a single punisher with an Autocannon would do easily. Though I'm not sure about the other gun, its ammo would be limited but then the thing would only fire once a turn so six rounds couldn't be THAT heavy for a "lifter". Probably add fluff that the engines were replaced with some newer design, so paint flames on the tail boom with racing stripes on the hull (that's right, make it go faster!)


My concern isn't how this is going to turn out ((cause its off to a great start)) its how the rules would work for it. The way in which a Spectre 130 gunship operates is much more like a strafing run; where it just circles over head pummelling you to hell ((literally)). Toss in that the Valk uses skimmer rules and this Spectre action would make it much more a Flyer. Bah, there's so many little things with the valk rules as it is . In any case the model looks awesome; can't wait to see this one done .

"Of course I have, have you ever tried going insane with out power? It sucks! Nobody listens to you." 
   
Made in gb
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

Now this sounds like one hell of a fun conversion

Can't wait to see it develop.

   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Ottawa, Canada

For the rules dilemma i was thinking you could use the original rules for a Valk from IA 1 when it was coinsidered a orbital lander and a flyer. Or would that rub people the wrong way?
   
Made in us







Cadia

It's not even that it's the *rules* that rub me the wrong way.

A helicopter or VTOL loaded with that kind of heavy armament just would not work, without significant re-engineering or modification. The whole reason it works with the AC-130 "Spectre" and the AC-47 "Spooky" before it is that they were:
A) Prop-driven vehicles, allowing it to loiter better and work better in the close air support role. The real exception to this rule has been the A-10 Thunderbolt--which is slow enough due to its armor that it just *works*.
B) Both were originally designed for heavy cargo hauling operations, and the cargo capacity ripped out so that the guns could be added in.


If you REALLY want to make a Valkyrie "Gunship" variant?
Think of something like the Pavehawks or Pave-Lows, where they're uparmored(sacrificing their speed for armor), and upgunned.

Bolt the rear ramp in a permanent down position, have maybe a quad linked autocannon turret in that rear ramp area. Bolt the side doors open with the autocannons there. Things like that.

Just my opinion though. It looks good, if unpractical
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Ottawa, Canada

Just my 2 cents towards Kanluwen, the Valk is pretty much just the Harrier of the 40k universe. Considering it is in the fluff a orbital lander it is made to carry heavy loads, and since its suppose to land them into BATTLEZONES i would take it as being able to move fast even when at full capacity. If thats the case then why would it not work carrying a lighter load of weapons instead of cargo/troops/ammo/etc.

Also the whole 40k universe makes no sense when saying "it wouldnt work because the real life version of.."
   
Made in us







Cadia

Mikhail Zablikov wrote:Just my 2 cents towards Kanluwen, the Valk is pretty much just the Harrier of the 40k universe. Considering it is in the fluff a orbital lander it is made to carry heavy loads, and since its suppose to land them into BATTLEZONES i would take it as being able to move fast even when at full capacity. If thats the case then why would it not work carrying a lighter load of weapons instead of cargo/troops/ammo/etc.

Also the whole 40k universe makes no sense when saying "it wouldnt work because the real life version of.."

Except it's *not* really an "orbital" lander(it's an atmospheric craft with *limited* exoatmospheric capacities. It has to be conveyed to the ground via mass landers to operate from there at full capacity), and in order to carry heavy loads(Sentinels, Tarantula turrets, or Cyclops demolition vehicles) it had to give up its wing-mounted hardpoint weaponry for Fuel Tanks.

And you're right. It is pretty much "just the Harrier of the 40k universe". Except that's really the Vulture's role.
So, I guess it's actually *not* "the Harrier of the 40k universe".
It'd be more like the V-22 Osprey of the 40k universe, I guess. It *can* have an armament. It *can* operate as a fast mover which air-drops personnel/equipment. Or it *can* operate like a helicopter.

But I digress.

It wouldn't work while carrying that "lighter load of weapons" because of the fact that y'know...that massive Earthshaker cannon's recoil works both ways. Firing a massive cannon doesn't rock the AC-130 because of the fact that the AC-130 has it specially bracketed, alongside of the mass of the vehicle itself to compensate.

*That's* part of my issue with the theory of a Valkyrie 'gunship'. That and the fact that there *is* a gunship variant in the Vendetta, and then there's also the actual Vulture gunship which is designed for the role.
   
Made in gb
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

Personally, so long as it looks good (which it is shaping up to do so) it is all good.

The Imperium is vast and solutions to problems will be created based on the knowledge and materials to hand. After all, even something like the LR MBT has a million variations and patterns, despite being an STC tank.

I personnally have been thinking of creating a space based IG company with exoatmospheric capabilities, including a number of specialist craft with all sorts of weapons/equipment mounted on them.

Some of it would not make much sense in-atmosphere, but then it is just a game

   
Made in us







Cadia

SilverMK2 wrote:Personally, so long as it looks good (which it is shaping up to do so) it is all good.

The Imperium is vast and solutions to problems will be created based on the knowledge and materials to hand. After all, even something like the LR MBT has a million variations and patterns, despite being an STC tank.

I personnally have been thinking of creating a space based IG company with exoatmospheric capabilities, including a number of specialist craft with all sorts of weapons/equipment mounted on them.

Some of it would not make much sense in-atmosphere, but then it is just a game

Like I said, it looks great. It just doesn't make sense to me and would nag at me endlessly
   
Made in us
Xenohunter with First Contact





Milwaukee

Lets just face it, not everyone is going to like a valk whipping around the edge of a 8x8' board pummeling them to hell.

 
   
Made in ca
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





Ottawa, ON

Kanluwen wrote:
Like I said, it looks great. It just doesn't make sense to me and would nag at me endlessly


Yeah, but there's no reason it shouldn't make sense; why can they fit an AC130 with howitzer's today but not the same weapon essentially ((but larger)) to an aircraft in the future?


Two things I'm going to note:

1. A10 was not built with "heavy cargo" in mind; a General literally saw the Gau 8 and said "build me a plane to carry that." So they built one around it. The A10 shines at low speeds and altitude over every other combat aircraft in the sky; its large surface area wings gives it the stability to hammer the &^%$ out of any target you put in front of it. Then again, the Gau8 fires enough ammo that it actually slows the aircraft down, another reason for the large wings to prevent air stall from said hammering. Where its engines are located are for several reasons including masking heat signature, protecting from ground AA fire, as well because its a slow and low kick your teeth out your butt-hole, engine failure occurs easily; its rear exterior mounts makes it easier for USAF to swap out engines and put the plane back in the air faster and sooner than attempting to repair damaged engines straight away.

2. The biggest factor to the AC130 firing a howitzer with out getting knocked out of its own stability is its weight. Recoil can always be dealt with by weight, this is true of ANY gun. Considering the build construction material difference between the AC130 which is all sheet metal against the solid thick steel armor that makes up the Valkyrie fuselage/wings, its easy to
see how a Valk could weigh in as much as an AC130 which means it would likely have the ability to handle firing said cannon with out the dangers of recoil being as high as one would think. Not to mention it has those thrusters on the wingtips that could be programmed for bursts to fire in sequence with the cannon.


back to rules, the only thing that would really suit for this thing to be "fair" is making it a flyer with no transport capacity and something like an airstrike where it fires everything it has in a single target; maybe do something like the death strike missile where its blast diameter is decided by dice. Everything in that circle takes a STX, APX hit or something. Again, cool model; and because its the future ((not to mention like I said, FW has punisher cannon Valkryies)) weight/design are easy things to get around, but the thing that's going to be hard at the end of this build is rules for using it.

Then again, I'm looking at alternative models for playing games; such as M109 Paladin's and Warrior MCV's. Some work on retooling them a bit to make them fit into the 40k universe smoothly and boom. Being different IS fun .

p.s. sorry didn't realize I had made another wall of text .

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/01/16 23:15:08


"Of course I have, have you ever tried going insane with out power? It sucks! Nobody listens to you." 
   
Made in us







Cadia

Punisher cannon Vultures don't equal Punisher cannon equipped Valkyries.

Vultures and Valkyries, while having the same nose and wings, along with tailbooms--are *not* the same thing, no matter how much you want them to be. Vultures are as different from Valkyries as Cobras were from Hueys.

And if you're going to try to correct someone, please read/quote their comments fully.
A helicopter or VTOL loaded with that kind of heavy armament just would not work, without significant re-engineering or modification. The whole reason it works with the AC-130 "Spectre" and the AC-47 "Spooky" before it is that they were:
A) Prop-driven vehicles, allowing it to loiter better and work better in the close air support role. The real exception to this rule has been the A-10 Thunderbolt--which is slow enough due to its armor that it just *works*.


   
Made in ca
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





Ottawa, ON

By that I would have to quote EVERYTHING said; instead of one comment . I'm pretty sure we don't need to have the same information written 20 times on the same page .

As for the Vulture/Valkyrie, my bad I remembered it being on one and thought it was the Valk.

But, at the same time FW has rules for drop sentinels in Valkyrie's as well in addition to their weapon specs; so weight wise I'm sure this non-existent futuristic aircraft which we don't have any real specs on; could do anything the builder's imagination wants it too . As one said its just a game.

The only thing I would argue with your reqouted information that you wish I pay more attention is this:

Prop-driven vehicles tend to have larger surface area wing patterns; this grants them stability at lower and slower speeds. Increasing the surface area of the wings and adding jet specced engines for the job the AC130 could operate using jet rather than prop driven engines. The costs for said refits are such that this would not make sense for modern aircraft deployment. I would also state again that firing the howitzer on the AC130 is controlled by the weight of the aircraft more so than its "special bracket" which does more for keeping the guns recoil from ripping itself out of place.


Anyway let's stop thread jacking its a cool build, it leaves me wondering what rules will be agreed on; and when its going to be done so I can oggle the finished pictures!

EDIT: DAMNIT! wall of text again...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/01/17 00:37:24


"Of course I have, have you ever tried going insane with out power? It sucks! Nobody listens to you." 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Kanluwen wrote:Punisher cannon Vultures don't equal Punisher cannon equipped Valkyries.

Vultures and Valkyries, while having the same nose and wings, along with tailbooms--are *not* the same thing, no matter how much you want them to be. Vultures are as different from Valkyries as Cobras were from Hueys.

And if you're going to try to correct someone, please read/quote their comments fully.
A helicopter or VTOL loaded with that kind of heavy armament just would not work, without significant re-engineering or modification. The whole reason it works with the AC-130 "Spectre" and the AC-47 "Spooky" before it is that they were:
A) Prop-driven vehicles, allowing it to loiter better and work better in the close air support role. The real exception to this rule has been the A-10 Thunderbolt--which is slow enough due to its armor that it just *works*.




"without significant engineering"

nobody implied that they just put a cannon into the side of a valkyrie. Like a predator to a rhino, a basilisk and hellhound to a chimera, having same (or similar) hulls does not mean that the internals are at all similar. Since he blocked off the open part, there is no way of knowing what recoil dampening and stabilizing equipment is on the unit.
   
Made in ca
Implacable Black Templar Initiate





Ottawa, Canada

Wow, it seems i need to step in and mediate my own blog before this debate gets out of hand.

For clarification, it is not an earthshaker cannon, it is an autocannon taken from the salamander scout, and a quick reference to the codex shows R 48", S 7, AP 4 and it is Heavy 2. So i think we can agree that the Valk is definitely capable of carrying this along with the other weapons. I really don't understand why there is a debate over the ability of the Valk to carry a heavy load... whether it counts as a skimmer or a flyer it is effectively a transport aircraft, it is so easy to come up with some fluff to explain how it is able to sport some big guns and the ammo they need...
to better allow the Valkyrie the power to weight ratio and increased altitude required for the new tasking, techpriest reworked the powerplants to increase their output.
see how hard was that?
anyway my biggest issue is whether the Valk is to be counted as a skimmer or a flyer. As a skimmer, the use of the Valkyrie is going to be limited to being a target. Categorizing it as a skimmer doesn't make sense (even a standard Valkyrie doesn't make sense as a skimmer... grav tanks are skimmers!) In my mind the Valk is a flyer. So with flyer rules in use my Valk will swoop in, lay down some fire and the bugger off to start another run. What i don't like about this rule is that it fails to allow the Valk to utilize its Spectre design... instead of swooping in and strafing i want to be able to circle the board and fire continuously.

The other issue that arises is do i treat all the weapons as independent or do they all fire at one target and scatter/cause collateral accordingly? I like Dracheous' idea
the only thing that would really suit for this thing to be "fair" is making it a flyer with no transport capacity and something like an airstrike where it fires everything it has in a single target; maybe do something like the death strike missile where its blast diameter is decided by dice. Everything in that circle takes a STX, APX hit or something.

I think that would keep things simple. But if i mount a lascannon maybe i will make it so that the autocannon and the punisher fire into a target area while the las can target something specific like a tank or bunker that is within the line of sight. what do people think?

Anyway, i don't mind a debate about the rules but i would like to remind people that debating whether a Valkyrie configured this way is even "possible" is kind of superfluous. If this is a universe where Warlord Titans are welcome, then it can be safely assumed that a small transport craft can be reconfigured into a flying artillery piece. And besides... i am building it whether it is actually possible or not, so lets try and find some rules to govern it!

and finally, the latest work done
[Thumb - img_7964.jpg]
Some sensors and scanners on the left hull

[Thumb - img_7965.jpg]
note the pivot points for some shock absorbers where the autocannon will go

[Thumb - img_7966.jpg]
test fit

[Thumb - img_7967.jpg]

[Thumb - img_7969.jpg]

[Thumb - img_7970.jpg]
battery pack for the Lascannon

[Thumb - img_7971.jpg]

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/01/17 06:29:17


Suffer Not The Unclean to Live  
   
Made in au
Member of the Malleus





Australia

enemy ac-130 above !!!

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i am the right hand of my emperor,
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Made in us
Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle






I personally thing that AC-130's are the sickest military aircraft in the skies. That said, i think that you should have the gun representing the 105mm howitzer be a bit bigger. It seems to be about the same size as the punisher cannon, when really, it should be much bigger.

Overall though, i love it. just have a bit of an issue with the size of the artillery piece.

Keep up the good work

Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.

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Made in ca
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





Vancouver

Its lookin' amazing.


95% of teens would go into a panic attack if the jonas brothers were about to jump off the empire state building copy and paste this if you are the 5% who would pull up a lawn chair grab some popcorn and yell JUMP BITCHES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mekboy wrote:Tzeentch: Full house! Yay!
Deciver: Straight Flush! Yay!
Eldrad: Four of a kind! Awww!
Creed: Warhound titan. Die, xenos scum!







 
   
Made in gb
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

Still looking good for me

Will there be ammo storage racks on the other wall?

You might also want to consider putting some slide rails on the floor so that the guns can be withdrawn into the ship for atmospheric entry (if required), to prevent damage to them, perhaps also for in flight barrel changes/repair/etc too. And I have just thought that if you do that, you will need some kind of sliding hatch to cover the gun port too.

If you are not going to include a service crew, servitor arms suspended from the midline of the cabin roof would look suitably fantastic

Man, I love this conversion so much just for the cool ideas it has been giving me, let alone the cool model it actally is

Keep up the good work.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/01/17 13:00:01


   
Made in gb






Essex, UK

loving this thread, really like the detail on the guns etc.

Keep up the good work, looking forward to seeing more.


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Made in us
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot






West Virginia

WHOO! Those guns look great once theyre online! keep up the good work, this is very interesting stuff.

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Made in us
Xenohunter with First Contact





Milwaukee

So, now I want a Vendetta with plasma cannons.

Who's going to beat me to putting a vanquisher cannon in this?

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





haha, this is the greatest post ive seen in a while, its gonna look awesome, keep the updates coming!


Current Projects: Pre-Heresy Dreadnaught / Blood Ravens Honor guard / Rhino / scratch built drop pod /  
   
Made in gb
Servoarm Flailing Magos





Earlobe deep in doo doo

This is an utterly cool model and I can't wait to see more although I have to admit that the Marauder Destroyer always seems like a Spectre to me.....

"But me no buts! Our comrades get hurt. Our friends die. Falkenburg is a knight who swore an oath to serve the church and to defend the weak. He'd be the first to tell you to stop puling and start planning. Because what we are doing-at risk to ourselves-is what we have sworn to do. The West relies on us. It is a risk we take with pride. It is an oath we honour. Even when some soft southern burgher mutters about us, we know the reason he sleeps soft and comfortable, why his wife is able to complain about the price of cabbages as her most serious problem and why his children dare to throw dung and yell "Knot" when we pass. It's because we are what we are. For all our faults we stand for law and light.
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Manhunter





Military

thats so awesome

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Kanluwen wrote:It wouldn't work while carrying that "lighter load of weapons" because of the fact that y'know...that massive Earthshaker cannon's recoil works both ways. Firing a massive cannon doesn't rock the AC-130 because of the fact that the AC-130 has it specially bracketed, alongside of the mass of the vehicle itself to compensate.

*That's* part of my issue with the theory of a Valkyrie 'gunship'. That and the fact that there *is* a gunship variant in the Vendetta, and then there's also the actual Vulture gunship which is designed for the role.


Ahhh... has anyone considered how much recoil those 20+" cannon on the 40K tanks generate?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/01/18 00:36:22


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My job here is done. 
   
Made in us
Xenohunter with First Contact





Milwaukee

As an afterthought, I think you should greenstuff that FW autocannon to have a nozzle the same size as the standard one.

 
   
 
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