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Hi All

This is my current 500 point IG list

HQ
CCS - 50
LasC - 20
Camo cloaks - 20

Troops
Vets - 70
3x GL - 15
Vets - 70
3x Flamers -15
Vets - 70
AC - 10
Forward Sentries - 30

Fast Attack
Hellhound - 130

I've got a game against a friend of mine tommorrow and was looking for some general advice or tactics.

My oppponent runs a foot slogger army so i'll probably drop the LasC for an AC and two GL's. If his list is ladt like the last time I saw it he'll have a mob of shoota boys, a mob of slugga boys, a warboss and lootas.

Last game his loota's did a lot of damage, but I don't reall y want to ignore his boys.

Any and all advice welcome.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
What i'm thinking is if I get to go first I either try to get a shot off from hellhound into the lootas or I supress the lootas with the two autocannons while the hellhound goes for the boyz.

If I go second I'll probaly have to hide my hellhound for his first turn.

This is the wrong subforum for armylists, maybe a mod can move it. But in the meantime-

I would ditch the camo cloaks. In a 500 pt game, you are dedicating far too many points toward an upgrade of questionable value.

Against footslogging orks, I would use plain platoon squads- Something like a platoon with 2x platoon squads blobbed together, with 2 mortars and 2 GLs. Give the Platoon command squad 4 flamers/GLs.

Hellhound is good, you can also try a Griffon mortar which will have a similar effect except you can hide it and indirect fire all game. Up to you.

Ultimately, the main thing you need is BODIES. In that army I only count about 35 guys. Fine for MEQs, not for guardsmen! Remember an army of T3 5+ sv guys do not stay alive for long, you need to balance it out by having more of them.

Thanks for the reply. always appriecated

If this is the wrong place for this post apologies. I posted here rather than Army list becasue I was more concerned with tactics than the list itself. I am quite happy with my list.

I think using Infantry Platoons in 500 points is questionable. Your talking 130 points for 25 guys with Lasguns and BS 3, for 130 points you get 10 vets with BS4 3 GL's and an AC for 95. Yeah you get extra bodies but you only need them if you plan on getting assualted or shot to pieces. The BS4 and more special weapons stops the assualting (well thins them out before hand) and the Camo stops the getting shot, last game i played his Loota's did the most damage. They pretty much wiped out my CCS and most of a AC vet squad.

Sorry getting off the point, apart from changing my entire list any tactical advise. Especially with Dealing with Lootas.

You have no way to fight anything with Sv3+ or Sv2+. You will lose horribly to anyone playing marines, necrons, sisters, GK, CSM... etc etc. Basically all this list can do is fight mechanized horde armies... which is basically orks. And it will do moderately well against footslogging armies that can't take out your hellhound, so orks, nids... etc. If the orks bring a few deffkoptas, or the nids bring a MC... Emperor help you.

List simply doesn't have anything to answer a lot of different types of lists to be any good.

Specifically against orks, like I said, you can deal with a mech list alright... but any fast infantry units, or really large mobs and you are done for.

Tactically?

Your list has nothing to threaten lootas. He out ranges you completely and if you get close, he will destroy you in hth if what you say is true about what he is bringing.

Best advice would be split into individual squads and hug terrain for the 4+ cover you will need against lootas. Roll lots of 4's.

If you want to entertain places to swap your list out.

At those points, I would loose the camo and the forward sentries and the las cannon. I would go with 4 gl or 4 flamers in the command. I would also probably swap the hellhound for something with a bit more range to effect the lootas...either the previously mentioned griffon, or a basilisk or even a Stock leman russ. The LR has some serious considerations given that it sounds like your opponent will be hard pressed to hurt it unless he closes with it in hth.

Either way, i would arm that vehicle with the H. flamer option to give the thing a dual purpose of dealing wiht lootas first and helping with on rushing hordes later.

Depending on the mission, I would deploy with the idea that I will force him to commit and keep enough spacing between my squads to prevent him from pulling off a multi squad charge. Liberal use of Move Move Move and Running to move the squad he is commiting to with his assaults to give you that second turn of shooting.

If you really want to screw over his lootas, take a leman russ eradicator (the one with the strength 6 ap 4 cannon that ignores cover saves IIRC.) One good hit from that puppy and those lootas are going to be hurting bad, and Orks can do nothing to stop it from firing until they get into melee. A hidden colossus or, for a cheap option, a gryphon heavy mortar, can similarly hurt them badly (especially if he doesn't have 15 and has to test the lootas' Ld 7 against ordnance barrage pinning making him Ld 6 for pinning checks) but these can be taken out by the lootas unless they're hidden.

I'd dump the hellhound, camo cloaks, and forward sentries to afford it.

He can't have that many lootas, and have a threatening amount of boyz in 500. What's his exact list?

Thanks to everyone for replying.

As most of you predicted I got pwned, seriously messed up, dead as a duck. I'm in the middle of doing a report which I will post later if any of you want a blow by blow account. It's my first though so might not be up to scratch.

Lt Lathrop: Always a pleasure. All I can say is LOL you helped me build it. In your defense though it was originally designed to fight mech orks but my opponent switched tactics due to lack of funds and I failed to adapt my list.

Your list has nothing to threaten lootas

Shotgun: How right you were. First turn I killed 3 of his 8 lootas with my AC vets and and AC I put in the CCS squad instead of the LasC. Tried to hug terrain and for what its worth Forward sentries worked really well, the AC vets actually won the assualt. Your right about the Lehman Russ though I really could have used one.

Culler: Probably will dump the Hellhound. Have to have a look at the eradicator.

Pika_Power: He had 8 in the end, I will be posting his whole list in my report if your curious.

Thanks everyone, you have all made valid points and I will definatley be rethinking my army. I'll start a new army list thread if any of you wish to comment assist. I'll post the list he used there as well so you know what i'm up against.

Linkies to both new threads please.

If your out to just beat your buddy bring really any tank with 14av at 500 points dealing with a tank with 14av is danm tough. Even more so for orks as the only real way to take it down is with a PK which you can avoid.

But at the same time haveing a tank with av 14 at 500 points really isnt fair ether. in my eyes anyways.

As a few others have said what you really would try and get is just more bodies.

He will prolly only have one squad of lootas so target saturation is a good tactic to take him down.

But really if the terrain allowes it and your able to sneak a hellhound around till you can get close enuff one template should be able to take most of them out.

SpankHammer III wrote:Lt Lathrop: Always a pleasure. All I can say is LOL you helped me build it. In your defense though it was originally designed to fight mech orks but my opponent switched tactics due to lack of funds and I failed to adapt my list.

I refuse to take credit for any list that lost a game... especially against orks, which are my specialty. Clearly, you did something wicked wrong.

So... let's start from the top. What are you fighting, and what do you have to fight it with? And we will go from there.

Pika_Power: here is the link to the battle report, sorry haven't had a chance to start a post for my army list yet. I've got limited access to the internet and I'm going to Brussels for a week tomorrow so it might be a while before I post it. I have got two new lists ready though.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/277238.page

Eos Rahh: Did think about bringing a Lehman Russ, but I've come up with two new lists one has less bodies and a chimera, the other is a all infantry list.

Lt Lathrop: LOL don't blame you, your right I made mistakes. Mainly with my hell hound haven't used it before and wasn't really sure what to do with it, my indecision meant in got pwned.

If I get a chance before my holiday I'll post the new lists. Thanks everyone.

Did you drive it too close to the orks and it got melee'd down? I learned that lesson. That's why I never take the second flamer, I always use the HBs on the hull... so it can stay at its max range over 12" away.

Just looking over your opponents list...
Moe’s Mob
HQ = 90
War Boss
Slugga
Power Claw
Hvy Armour

Troop 1 = 91
Shoota Boyz – 11 models
One big Shoota
Nob w big choppa
Boss Pole

Troop 2 = 109
Slugga Boyz -14 Models
Big Shoota
Nob
Big Choppa
Boss Pole

Elite = 120
Loota’s – 8 models

Elite = 90
Komandos – 6 models (started in reserve)
2x Burners

The two troop choices are quite small/weak for footsloggers. Your vets should be able to handle them as they approach fairly easily, and your hellhound should be able to basically ace almost an entire squad with its template each turn.

The 6 kommando squad is basically junk. No pk/bp, 33% chance to come in from the wrong side, and 2 ranged wounds will probably run them off. I could see the 2 templates doing some damage if he ran them right up to the side of your line, but he really shouldn't get there.

8 lootas, while decent for this point level, really shouldn't be burning up the table. Especially since you killed nearly half of them on turn 1.
If they shoot at the hellhound (they should) they'll average 16 shots -> 5.3 hits -> ~.8 glances and ~.8 pens -> .27 and .53 of seriously stopping the hound if it's in the open. They should do junk damage to infantry in cover as well, 2-3 wounds if you don't feel like going to ground. They're dangerous, but the cost of them and the kommandos is really hamstringing the rest of the list (1pk? pft).

After reading the first turn of the battle report, I feel awfully sorry for the beating the ork player is about to take. Half the lootas dead, hellhound about to be in range, no damage done to the IG? GG orks. I was quite surprised when they managed to run you down.

Your opponent seemed to get aweful lucky on run rolls, loota shot rolls, pen/damage rolls, and morale checks. You also made some tactical mistakes, though you spotted many of them and without pictures or more detail it's hard to give specific advice.
Note that the hellhound is fast: it can move 12" and still fire its main gun (and require 6s to be hit in melee). I can't believe you never managed to get a template shot off on such a small board with the extra 12" of range... even immobilized the hellhound can cover ~half the table.

That and try to play on a more sizable field... 3x4 is half the size of a standard table and noticeably favors the orks (and let the kommandos run you over the turn they arrived). You should also try to get a more sizable amount of terrain (or play at a LGS with some) as it changes the game quite a lot.

CCS w/2x flamer - 60 pts
Chimera with ML/HHF- 55 pts

Vet Squad w/shotguns and 2x flamer - 80
Chimera with ML/HHF- 55 pts

Vet Squad w/shotguns and 2x flamer - 80
Chimera with ML/HHF- 55 pts

Psyker Battle Squad - 60
Chimera with ML/HHB - 55 pts

Turn 1 you fire multilasers and heavy bolter at the Lootas. 4 MLs and 1 HB should deal 6 wounds on average, meaning between 3 and 6 Lootas die depending on if they have cover or not. If they don't have cover, you just gutted his fire support and can basically ignore it. If they do have cover, hit him with the Psyker Battle Squad's leadership nuke and watch them run off the table at Ld 3, or use their Soulstorm ability and toss a large blast into a Boyz mob.

On turn 2, with as small a table as you play on, you should move 12" and deploy your flamers and gut at least 1 mob but probably 2. Use the PBS to drop a leadership nuke on any mob under 10 models and watch them run off the table.

Since your transports moved 12", your opponent hits them on 6's only and also has no real shooting to deal with them. Tank shock non-Power Klaw models to get a nice blob for your hull heavy flamer to fry.

By turns 5-6 you should have tabled your opponent. He has nowhere to run to that your flamers can't catch them.

I'm assuming he doesn't have 4 chimeras and a PBS... fun as that looks

Why would you take shotguns? You are in a Chimera. Emperor save you if you think it would be a good idea to get out of said Chimera and try to assault anyone from that position, especially without any melee weapons. Makes no sense.

Lt Lathrop - nah that wasn't it, wasted two turns basically. I flip flopped about trying to rush him or to hide until he was closer and it just ended up gettng shot. i need to be more aggresive.

Gokamorka - I agree with everything you said his list ain't all that and I should of done better. I agree so much with the need for a bigger table, those Kommandos would have got a shot off on a normal 4x4 table, well at very least i wouldn't have lost an entire squad. I think the cronic misuse of my hellhound was my down full, but i'm still learning. My opponent is new to 40k but used to play fantasy so think he might be a step or two ahead of me at the moment.

Sourclams - thanks for the list, as gorkamorka guessed though I don't have any psykers or chimera. Will probably get a chimera when the new models come out in March. Only just started looking at Psykers, I am starting to like the look of them. Was originally put off because they are dirty wytch scum

All here is a link to my new army lists. As I said earlier this will be last time I get a chance to post for a week but please feel free to rip them apart. Try to avoid making buy too many new models though

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/277592.page#1308760