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Hey folks!

I just got back from the SVDM GT, and have a bit of time to make some conversions to get my list optimized for my next event.

Here's what I'm planning.

HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka (In Battlewagon with Burnas)
HQ: Big Mek + KFF + Powerklaw + Grot Oiler (In Battlewagon with Nobs)

Troop1: 16 Ork Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw
Troop2: 12 Ork Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw/Bosspole in Trukk with Boarding Plank / Reinforced Ram
Troop3: 10 Gretchin + Runtherder
Troop4: 7 Nobs with Cybork Bodies, equipped as below:
-Painboy/Ammo Runt
-Waaaugh! Banner/ Ammo Runt
-Bosspole / Kombi-Rokkit
-Powerklaw
-Powerklaw / Kombi-Rokkit
-Big Choppa
-Big Choppa / Kombi-Rokkit
-Dedicated Transport Battlewagon Identical to heavy supports

Elite 1: 15 Burnas
Elite 2: 5 Lootas
Elite 3: 5 Lootas

Fast 1: Deffkopta + Twin-linked Rokkits + Buzzsaw
Fast 2: Deffkopta + Twin-linked Rokkits + Buzzsaw
Fast 3: 3 Warbuggies with Twin-linked Rokkits

Heavy 1: Battlewagon with Deff Rolla, Boarding Planks, Grabbin' Klaw, Big Shoota, Armor Plates
Heavy 2: Battlewagon with Deff Rolla, Boarding Planks, Grabbin' Klaw, Big Shoota, Armor Plates

-------------------------------
This is a return to my mechanized roots. The FAQ confirmation of the deffrollas helps quite a bit, and I feel comfortable downsizing my Lootas into MSUs because of the added anti-tank I'm getting from a warbuggy screen as well as from the deffrollas.

Yeah it's solid, personal tweaks would be 2 burnas to the squad of 5 lootas and 1 from 15 to 5 - reasoning is that 15 templates is gravy 13 is still one of them "seriously how many hit?" moments and the lootas is for distrabution, it means you squad can do that little bit more, worst case you're going to get 20 shots (22 with changes) but really losing 1 off the bigger squad to boots the tiny one a little will give great returins on the average, 8 and 14 the 8 has such a better (60%) chance of doing something now while the 14 has only lost 6.66% effectiveness if you get what I mean?

Also I'd have Grot riggers on the Non big mek wagon as a What If? moment keep the buggers rolling. But I don't know where your going to find the 5 pts =P

Dashofpepper wrote:

I know Kevin Nash will read this and tell me that two units of 30 Lootas will do more damage than the changes I've made statistically, but I'm trying to pad my ability to hit multiple targets.

I think it looks pretty good. I am also a fan of Rockitt Buggies I just never have enough points to get them into my lists.

My only major point of contention is the second grot unit. I like to run one because they can grab a close objective (they are quite good in capture and control), but the chances a second objective also being in grot range is highly unlikely. In KP games they are strictly a liability. I think a 5th troop is a good idea here since your other troops are so squishy but I don't see a second grot really addressing that problem.

Maybe you can run some nobz or something? You have ghaz so they could score for you seems like a decent choice.

Just having fun with your list here:

HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka (In Battlewagon with Burnas)
HQ: Big Mek + KFF (In Battlewagon with Boyz)

Troop1: 18 Ork Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw/Bosspole
Troop2: 11 Ork Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw/Bosspole in Trukk with Reinforced Ram
Troop3: 11 Ork Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw/Bosspole in Trukk with Reinforced Ram
Troop4: 10 Gretchin + Runtherder
Troop5: 4 Nobz + Painboy (Cybork Bodies, Powerklaw, Bosspole, Big Choppa) in Trukk with Reinforced Ram

Elite 1: 8 Burnas
Elite 2: 15 Lootas
Elite 3: 5 Lootas

Fast 1: Deffkopta + Twin-linked Rokkits + Buzzsaw
Fast 2: Deffkopta + Twin-linked Rokkits + Buzzsaw

Heavy 1: Battlewagon with Reinforced Ram, Boarding Planks, Big Shoota
Heavy 2: Battlewagon with Reinforced Ram, Boarding Planks, Big Shoota

Man, do you hate my burnas or what.

Nobs would change the flavor of the list quite a bit.

HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka (In Battlewagon with Burnas)
HQ: Big Mek + KFF + (In Battlewagon with Boyz)

Troop1: 16 Ork Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw
Troop2: 12 Ork Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw/Bosspole in Trukk with Boarding Plank / Reinforced Ram
Troop3: 12 Ork Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw/Bosspole in Trukk with Boarding Plank / Reinforced Ram
Troop4: 10 Gretchin + Runtherder
Troop5: 3 MANZ in a Trukk

Elite 1: 15 Burnas
Elite 2: 14 Lootas

Fast 1: Deffkopta + Twin-linked Rokkits + Buzzsaw
Fast 2: Deffkopta + Twin-linked Rokkits + Buzzsaw
Fast 3: 3 Warbuggies with Twin-linked Rokkits

Heavy 1: Battlewagon with Reinforced Ram, Boarding Planks, Grabbin' Klaw, Big Shoota
Heavy 1: Battlewagon with Reinforced Ram, Boarding Planks, Grabbin' Klaw, Big Shoota

The more target saturation that you can provide, the better. Shaving off 6 lootas and the dangling KP of that Grot squad nets you a nasty throwaway unit- the Meganobs will make short work of any non-PW unit that you throw them at, vehicle or otherwise. Having a PK on a Big Mek sounds like a great idea, until you think about how long he'll last in combat. He has a 6+ save and 2 wounds. Your basic slugga boy has a good chance of killing him before he can swing, and you know more than one slugga will be aimed at your sole KFF. Lock him in the middle of your mob, or have him leave it before combat. He is not worth losing.

I've never had a situation where 14 lootas couldn't do the same job I'd send 15 after- actually, I favor 13 strong squads, but I couldn't use the 15 extra points in any meaningful way.

Dash,

You are getting there! (seriously) Play experience obviously clarifying what you find useful. dropping the third battlewagon and replacing it with a squad of 16 boys basically satisfies my criticisms of the list, and I think a 15 and a 5 squad of lootas is very neat thinking, if you are able to deploy them well. Personally I would trade out the burners for plain old boys, but that's merely my opinion, its your army and if you find the burners are helping win games, no one can argue with it...

OTG.

You've said it yourself, bigger loota unit.

I would also put ghazgkull in with the 16 boyz unit too. Why? Well the burnas strength is in mass templates. So they'll be hiding in the wagon dropping down the pain and ghazgkull has no buddies for when he bails out. If the burna boyz assault then next turn they'll possibly get minced. Mass template for the win!

I took a mix of trukks and wagons before and it didn't quite work. The weak trukks either speed ahead and get shot and the boyz inside will die pretty rapidly. Or they hide behind wagons and don't use there high speed well.

I've since dropped them and gone all battlewagon, I now have 4 wagons speeding together with a big mek for a cover save with a scouting party of deffkopters and ranged covering fire from lootas. Have you thought about taking mass battlewagons instead of trukks? I did find my list to be stronger without them.

The list itself isn't bad although is some units in there I wouldn't take such as the 3 warbuggies in a squadron as thats just going to lead into trouble, for you.

Couple things worth noting:

1. Ghazghkull is with the burnas specifically so that I have a powerklaw in each battlewagon. My battlewagons *are* mobile anti-tank powerklaw delivery systems via boarding planks, and putting the KFF with the boyz and Ghazghkull with the burnas accomplishes this.

2. I realize that a KFF mek won't last long in close combat. I don't ever intend him to get there. The reason I gave him a powerklaw is because when my boys jump ship to go assault something, my big mek doesn't go with them - he stays in the battlewagon. Rather than having an empty battlewagon, I was planning on using the KFF Mek to trundle around and continue whacking on tanks with his powerklaw. Hell, it doesn't matter what vehicles of mine survive, I can pile the KFF mek in there and have an effective single-model anti-tank unit.

I haven't tried it before, but I fancy the idea. By the end of the game, Ghazghkull pretty much guaranteed to be out of his battlewagon, the boyz probably are too....once the wagons are empty, they have no real utility in my games; I'm trying to keep them purposeful.

I don't really get what the grotz are for. Could I get an explenation. I'm truly curious.

The gretchin are cheap troop choices meant to stay in reserve as long as possible, then get objectives late game. An objective in cover, with gretchin going to ground for a 3+ cover save on it isn't bad. They also serve to protect Lootas from being assaulted with a physical screen; all depending on whom I play against and what the mission calls for.

My current list has one unit of gretchin, and a total of four troop choices (including the gretchin). It feels thin on troops, so I was trying to flesh it out with another scoring unit. Gretchin *are* weak - no argument there, but my goal is for a 40 point scoring unit.

Dashofpepper wrote:Man, do you hate my burnas or what.

Nobs would change the flavor of the list quite a bit.

I'm not sure how it changes a whole lot other than adding a quality CC unit that this army doesn't really have short of Ghaz.

The unit also happens to score which solves your low troops problem. I'm of the opinion that if you're going to run a warboss and ghaz it's kinda silly not to take advantage of scoring nobs. I would have suggested MAN but I know you don't own any.

I don't hate burnas I just don't know how you can achieve a 5th troop that doesn't suck without cutting points there.

I'm going to revisit the nobs idea.

I *do* hate the idea of taking a tiny squad of nobs though. A minimal squad of gretchin is 40 points.

A minimal squad of nobs is 60 points for 3 models before upgrades, before you even get into the transport. With this in mind, I've always run 10 nobs, individually equipped, which makes them a super expensive deathstar unit...which isn't what I want in my army.

Dashofpepper wrote:I'm going to revisit the nobs idea.

I *do* hate the idea of taking a tiny squad of nobs though. A minimal squad of gretchin is 40 points.

A minimal squad of nobs is 60 points for 3 models before upgrades, before you even get into the transport. With this in mind, I've always run 10 nobs, individually equipped, which makes them a super expensive deathstar unit...which isn't what I want in my army.

5 Nobs with the loadout I put up there is pretty resilient. You have full wound allocation. You have 5+ invulnerables and you have FNP. They have to kill 2 of them to force a test and when they do you have a BP so you can reroll a failed LD save. It's going to be pretty difficult to remove that unit short of multiple str 8 shots or AP 1 or 2.

It's kinda a middle ground. Obviously far better and more pricey than 10 grots but it's half the cost of the 10 man nobstar unit too.

I also don't think it's perfect. I'd prefer MAN I think. But I'm just working within the confines of what you have available and frankly Cybork + FNP is pretty darn good too. Heck I wish by mega armored nobs had cybork and FNP. How nice would that be?

Well, the 500-lb gorilla in the room, if you're talking about saving some points, is Ghazghkull. Your call, but running with your theme, you could run:

HQ:
Big Mek w/ KFF (85)
Warboss w/ PK, BP, Cybork, Squig (115)

ELITE:
Burnas x 15 (225)
Lootas x 15 (225)
Lootas x 5 (75)

TROOP:
Sluggas x 18, nob w/ PK, BP (148)
Trukk Boyz x 12, nob w/ PK, BP; Trukk w/ BP, Ram (157)
Trukk Boyz x 12, nob w/ PK, BP; Trukk w/ BP, Ram (157)
Trukk Boyz x 12, nob w/ PK, BP; Trukk w/ BP, Ram (157)
Gretchin x 10, Runtherd (40)

FAST ATTACK:
Deffkopta w/ TL RL, Buzzsaw (70)
Deffkopta w/ TL RL, Buzzsaw (70)
3 Warbuggies w/ TL RL (105)

HEAVY:
Battlewagon w/ Ram, Big shoota, GK, BP (110)
Battlewagon w/ Ram, Big shoota, GK, BP (110)

1849

Dropping Ghaz basically turns one gretchin mob into another trukk mob and turns his 7 S10 attacks into 44 S4 and 4 S9 attacks on the charge. I guess I would ask you how much you *need* Ghaz's waaagh, fearless, and 2+ invulnerable save.

Skar if he's not gonna run Ghaz or any nobs I'd just dump the second HQ entirely and put the points towards more Lootas.

I like Skarboy's list, looks pretty awesome to me.

This is starting to look really good. I like it, anti-tank is better with the PK on the Mek (plus it looks cool) and the buggies, but I don't know how much better it is. I'd rather have more buggies but if you find the Deffkoptas to be more useful, use them.

Have you tried it out yet? I like the idea of Nobs, or even MANs since they're cheaper.

Regardless, I think your getting there.

I was just thinking about the possibility of cutting down my burna squad, and then they just killed two units of three zoanthropes and a spore pod in one round of shooting.

You could drop just 2 or 3. Thats still enough hits to destroy just about anything, and those points would be useful.

Dashofpepper wrote:2. I realize that a KFF mek won't last long in close combat. I don't ever intend him to get there. The reason I gave him a powerklaw is because when my boys jump ship to go assault something, my big mek doesn't go with them - he stays in the battlewagon. Rather than having an empty battlewagon, I was planning on using the KFF Mek to trundle around and continue whacking on tanks with his powerklaw. Hell, it doesn't matter what vehicles of mine survive, I can pile the KFF mek in there and have an effective single-model anti-tank unit.

Is there some special rule I am oblivious to?

With the boyz and mek in the battlewagon, they are one unit. They disembark as one. You can't unload the boyz only and leave the mek in the wagon.

imweasel wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:2. I realize that a KFF mek won't last long in close combat. I don't ever intend him to get there. The reason I gave him a powerklaw is because when my boys jump ship to go assault something, my big mek doesn't go with them - he stays in the battlewagon. Rather than having an empty battlewagon, I was planning on using the KFF Mek to trundle around and continue whacking on tanks with his powerklaw. Hell, it doesn't matter what vehicles of mine survive, I can pile the KFF mek in there and have an effective single-model anti-tank unit.

Is there some special rule I am oblivious to?

With the boyz and mek in the battlewagon, they are one unit. They disembark as one. You can't unload the boyz only and leave the mek in the wagon.

They're only one unit as long as they stay in unit coherency. So, as long as he moves the unit at least two inches away from the vehicle, his mek is no longer considered part of that unit.

Argnoth wrote:They're only one unit as long as they stay in unit coherency. So, as long as he moves the unit at least two inches away from the vehicle, his mek is no longer considered part of that unit.

They still have to disembark together. They still have to move in coherency. If he assaults with that unit, the mek goes with them.

Unless someone can show me a rule that states otherwise...

imweasel wrote:

Argnoth wrote:They're only one unit as long as they stay in unit coherency. So, as long as he moves the unit at least two inches away from the vehicle, his mek is no longer considered part of that unit.

They still have to disembark together. They still have to move in coherency. If he assaults with that unit, the mek goes with them.

Unless someone can show me a rule that states otherwise...

It says if an IC is in a vehicle, he is part of the squad, but when they diembark, he can leave the squad and stay in. This should be in the transport rules.

Snikkyd wrote:It says if an IC is in a vehicle, he is part of the squad, but when they diembark, he can leave the squad and stay in. This should be in the transport rules.

Holy freaking crap.

I had completely forgotten that. Thanks for pointing that out for me. Good grief.

imweasel wrote:

Snikkyd wrote:It says if an IC is in a vehicle, he is part of the squad, but when they diembark, he can leave the squad and stay in. This should be in the transport rules.

Holy freaking crap.

I had completely forgotten that. Thanks for pointing that out for me. Good grief.

Yes, ICs leave the squad during the movement phase, which is also when you disembark

I run a list quite similar to the OP's but have 2 battlewagons filled with boyz and only trukk boyz mob. Works out great, but I never really knew what to do with my wagons after dumping the crew. (FLGS doesn't allow deff rolla vehicle ramming) Giving the Mek a PK and boarding plank is pure genius and something I am defiantly gonna include and test out this week!

I also swear by my burnas in a battlewagon. Most opponents under estimate only 8-10 ork sitting in a wagon until in unleashes burny hell and loose a squad. Suddenly every gun on the table turns off the boyz onto that wagon with the wonderful 4+ save.

Not to veer off topic, but I am contemplating trying out a full squad of tankbustas in a battlewagon instead of the burnas. Curious if anyone has had any experience with this?

kowbasher wrote:I run a list quite similar to the OP's but have 2 battlewagons filled with boyz and only trukk boyz mob. Works out great, but I never really knew what to do with my wagons after dumping the crew. (FLGS doesn't allow deff rolla vehicle ramming) Giving the Mek a PK and boarding plank is pure genius and something I am defiantly gonna include and test out this week!

I also swear by my burnas in a battlewagon. Most opponents under estimate only 8-10 ork sitting in a wagon until in unleashes burny hell and loose a squad. Suddenly every gun on the table turns off the boyz onto that wagon with the wonderful 4+ save.

Not to veer off topic, but I am contemplating trying out a full squad of tankbustas in a battlewagon instead of the burnas. Curious if anyone has had any experience with this?

Yes - at 2500 points its quite effective because you have the FoC slots and points to support it, and need those tankbustas up at that point level. Below that, I think Lootas are more appropriate. They don't answer land raiders, but below that point level you'll likely only ever see one or two, and you can arrange a timely meeting with Ghazghkull or a Warboss (or even some nobs).

imweasel wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:2. I realize that a KFF mek won't last long in close combat. I don't ever intend him to get there. The reason I gave him a powerklaw is because when my boys jump ship to go assault something, my big mek doesn't go with them - he stays in the battlewagon. Rather than having an empty battlewagon, I was planning on using the KFF Mek to trundle around and continue whacking on tanks with his powerklaw. Hell, it doesn't matter what vehicles of mine survive, I can pile the KFF mek in there and have an effective single-model anti-tank unit.

Is there some special rule I am oblivious to?

With the boyz and mek in the battlewagon, they are one unit. They disembark as one. You can't unload the boyz only and leave the mek in the wagon.

That was gonig to be my concern as well. Although I also wanted to praise Dash for his use of a PK on a Mek for moblie BW anti-armor.

What would be the disadvantages of having two 10-man loota squads instead of one 15-man and one 5-man?

I can think of some advantages:

- Harder target priority for your opponent
- Easier deployment (unless your cover is really small)
- Better chance at taking out two vehicles a turn.

Kveldulv wrote:What would be the disadvantages of having two 10-man loota squads instead of one 15-man and one 5-man?

I can think of some advantages:

- Harder target priority for your opponent
- Easier deployment (unless your cover is really small)
- Better chance at taking out two vehicles a turn.

The 5 man unit may not draw a lot of fire as your opponent fixates on the 15 man unit.