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Which Primarch would you say would win in one on one martial combat? Basically, weapons included (not to the extent where they shift the balance too much) and pre-heresy/daemon primarchs.

This would also be ignoring psychic powers and ranged weaponry, ie. in a close combat duel, which primarch is the best?

I think we can rule out Ferrus Manus and Magnus as they were both defeated in such combat and some might argue that sanguinus could be ruled out also, however it could be argued as to the extent of Horus' change as a result of Chaos. Also, in terms of Mortarion, being 1v1, his deathshroud are not included, nor are the lost primarchs or the emperor.

Personally I feel that it's either Fulgrim (bested Ferrus, sought perfection, defeated an avatar (don't mention Calgar!) and was a skilled swordsman), or Leman Russ ( arguably almost on par with the Emperor, bested Magnus, undeniably powerful, ruthless and skilled and I'd swear I read that he was the best Primarch in CC when they apparently duelled one another). However I can't imagine it's coincidence that these are also the Primarchs of the chapters/legions I collect.

Anyways, which Primarch would you say would win in a duel?

It's Robute...Gulliman......
and don't forget about the Lion!
Or Petarubo.
And noone mention Rogal Dorn.

Although many will argue this and even i know it won't be true, i'll say Alpharius, with the argument that the guy will plan every microsecond of that battle, and for every possible strike he would already have a counterattack at the ready.

And for those of you that will say he got wtfpwn by Rowboat, i'll say bring forth proof

I would have to say Dorn might be very tough to bring down, I don't think he would give up at all in a fight. I would also bet he would be a fairy good swordsmen due the history of the imperial fists.

aka_tizz wrote:Although many will argue this and even i know it won't be true, i'll say Alpharius, with the argument that the guy will plan every microsecond of that battle, and for every possible strike he would already have a counterattack at the ready.

And for those of you that will say he got wtfpwn by Rowboat, i'll say bring forth proof

Now there's a good one!

Actually, I think we've been told a few times that if it isn't Angron, then it is only 1 or 2 others...

Actually, I think that quote is from CORAX in the new RAVEN'S FLIGHT audio book. (Corax is, incidentally, quite the bad ass in that audio book!)

He basically mentions that 'we're screwed if Angron's here!' and that only primarch "x and y" would even have a chance of defeating him...

Sadly, I can't remember who "x and y" are!

Off the top of my head, four contenders...

Russ, because of his keen instincts and his experience in close combat fighting. He's the ultimate mix of brutal force, finesse and self control

Angron, because he's the guy you really don't want to see swinging an axe at you, and because of his high threshold for pain

Sanguinius, because of the extra mobility his wings could provide, and because apparently he was a fighter of great finesse

Perturabo... because nobody ever walked away from a full storm bolter clip at point blank, and because he's the only one who could have been planning a showdown like this for decades...

Alpharius wrote:

He basically mentions that 'we're screwed if Angron's here!' and that only primarch "x and y" would even have a chance of defeating him...

Sadly, I can't remember who "x and y" are!

Yes, Angron ( being the berzerker psycho ) is the top dog. My guess as to the challengers X and Y? Lemann Russ certainly. Not sure about the second one, maybe Sanguinius.

Sanguinius. I think he'd use Angron's anger against him.

I say Magnus wins. It's not his fault he's the biggest and the strongest - he doesn't even exercise.

I think you're right - "X and Y" might have been Leman and Sanguinius...

I'll do some checking...

I didn't even think about Angron until Alpharius mentiond him his is an HH book I need to read... If everyone is at the top of their game I honestly don't think Russ could take him, it would be like that dual between Lucious and (Loken?).

For the record I think that only reason that Sanguinius lost to Horus is that he would be pleading for his brother to stop the war, or he would refuse to strike a killing blow. There is no reason to discount him from this discussion.

Gulliman is a schoolar, how would he be the best in H2H?

The battle you're thinking of is Lucius and Tarvitz (I think though Lucius did lose to Loken as well). In the end, tactics lost to skill, so if anything it proves that Dorn, Alpharius, and Rowboat are all contenders.

This dispute won't be ended for a simple reason. While each Primarch has strengths and weaknesses, in the end, they were made to surpass one another in some way. Each would exploit the other's weakness. Hell, I'd say even Lorgar, who was known for his speech not battle prowess, has a chance purely because he also has an analytical mind.

Horus!!!

Obvious, my bet would be on Russ, just cuz he's my Primarch, but that aside, I would say Horus or Sang, but leaning more towards Horus.

Leman Russ never lost two anyone but the Emperor close combat is his forte ...the Lion doesn't count... Fulgrim...the "perfect warrior" killed an avatar and 2 primarchs (surprised no one mention him) and whats the obsession with Sanguinus and Angron they both don't have any primarch kills and Angron IMO is probably the weakest because of his fighting stye.

I agree with laugher, Angron's rage and foam at the mouth form of fighting would easily be picked apart by more technically sound primarchs such as Fulgrim or Sanguinius or Russ.

Its hard to say but i think that Fulgrim would definitely be tough to match in one on one combat.

Remember, the Emperor's children perfect ALL forms of war so Fulgrim would have noted his brothers' fighting styles and learned a specific form of swordplay to counter each individual style of the other primarchs.

-Lasfire

I'm pretty sure we're talking Pre-Heresy here. And if so, Fulgrim wasn't the champion killer everyone is thinking he was. He wasn't godly until he got the daemon-sword, so I'd say he actually isn't great.

And the idea Anngron has no fighting skill is absurd. He's a ragetastic beast, but he knows the difference between a wide stance and an obvious guard. He does have a fighting style and you can bet it revolves around throwing his weight into his attacks, exploitable but very hard to do when he's hitting so hard and so fast.

Alpharius wrote:I think you're right - "X and Y" might have been Leman and Sanguinius...

I'll do some checking...

After listening to the Audio book all day painting, Corax says that," only Horus and Sanguinius had any chance."

So, I think Sanguinius would be the toughest. Horus was only able to kill him and the Emperor with the help of the Chaos gods.

Just Cause it is typically me to say it
KHAN.
why. He and russ would be an awesome fight.
They Both grew up savage warriors more the soldiers.
I mean Khan took on Palatine hunter party by himself and unarmed. and just to be a jerk he send back one guy with the head of his son with a note.

Vulkan.

Before you call the Asylum, let me explain. Vulkan in my mind is possibly one of the most "well rounded" of the primarchs. By that, I mean he can do a lot of different things-He's quick thinking, he's strong, he's used to pain, and he's such a great craftsmen he would have access to some of the most potent weaponry. His only real weakness would be his pride-believing he could take on anyone. So, I think Vulkan would stand a good chance against any of his brothers, even if he wasn't the overall victor.

Pfft, Angron will wreck your gak anyday.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Pfft, Angron will wreck your gak anyday.

Yeah, I'm probably wrong anyway.

Sanguinus and Fulgrim,I heard that even the Leman Russ told that Sanguinius was better swordsman than him,while better in sword I think that Sanguinius would lose against Russ in unarmed combat.

Rashim wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I think you're right - "X and Y" might have been Leman and Sanguinius...

I'll do some checking...

After listening to the Audio book all day painting, Corax says that," only Horus and Sanguinius had any chance."

So, I think Sanguinius would be the toughest. Horus was only able to kill him and the Emperor with the help of the Chaos gods.

Thank you!

So, there you have it!

Personally, I think Sanguinius is the Man.

And I think we'll eventually find that out at some point in the HH series.

Well, what weapon does Russ use? An axe? I think its him, even though Fulgrim sounds pretty freaking powerful.

Also, Horus killed Sanguinius, so shouldn't he be higher. I surprised he hasn't been mentioned more.

I'd like to point out that Fulgrim defeated an Avatar (and a Wraithlord), and his brother while under the influence of a daemon weapon containing the essence of a Keeper of Secrets: you know, causes Instant Death if you so much as cut your finger.

Nurglitch wrote:I'd like to point out that Fulgrim defeated an Avatar (and a Wraithlord), and his brother while under the influence of a daemon weapon containing the essence of a Keeper of Secrets: you know, causes Instant Death if you so much as cut your finger.

Could be the reason.

Its Mangus... He can turn your mind to pudding and then come over and put a boot in ur @$$..... Dont mess why pyskers... May be whimpy on the outside but inside there going too Mind&^&%( you....

Horus, Mortally wounded the emprah and all . . . You can't ignore his chaos powers any more than you could ignore Sangs wings.

StarGate wrote:Its Mangus... He can turn your mind to pudding and then come over and put a boot in ur @$$..... Dont mess why pyskers... May be whimpy on the outside but inside there going too Mind&^&%( you....

Yeah, except this is CC, no pysker powers.