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 Rydria wrote:

 Roknar wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Basic Emperor's Children marines with Icon of excess seem good, 190 pts for a 10 man squad of initiative 5 marines, with 4+ FNP, Fearless, and a roll on the combat drug table, which can give them +1 WS, BS, S, T, A, I,

Death Guard Marines are incredible also (Likely even better than the EC ones), 170 pts for a 10 man squad of toughness 5 marines with 5+ FNP and fearless but with a -1 to initiative.

How are they better? The EC marines could end up with T5 and I5 with a 4+ fnp and fearless, so they're better on every front except for the lack of relentless.

The death guard marine squad is 20 pts cheaper ?

They should also have poisoned close combat weapons and (I think) blight grenades.

a fat guy wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 Roknar wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Basic Emperor's Children marines with Icon of excess seem good, 190 pts for a 10 man squad of initiative 5 marines, with 4+ FNP, Fearless, and a roll on the combat drug table, which can give them +1 WS, BS, S, T, A, I,

Death Guard Marines are incredible also (Likely even better than the EC ones), 170 pts for a 10 man squad of toughness 5 marines with 5+ FNP and fearless but with a -1 to initiative.

How are they better? The EC marines could end up with T5 and I5 with a 4+ fnp and fearless, so they're better on every front except for the lack of relentless.

The death guard marine squad is 20 pts cheaper ?

They should also have poisoned close combat weapons and (I think) blight grenades.

basic CSM don't get those, those are Plague marine exclusive weaponry.

Yoyoyo wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:
Back from fat-American dinner and going through questions. THanks for your patience and aweseomeness. Figured better if I just post here than have it lifted.

Hope you enjoyed your dinners and 1-4 margaritas...

My question is about force building restrictions. Reference the Formations that were formerly in the Black Legion supplement :

- The Bringers of Despair
- The Chosen of Abaddon
- The Hounds of Abaddon
- Daemon Engine Pack
- Cyclopia Cabal
- The Tormented
- Black Legion Warband

Are these all available to all the Traitor Legions, barring their legion-specific restrictions?

these stay special to BL only



re: WE relics
WE - relics
Talisman of Burning Blood (25) bearer's unit can move 3” more in move, run and charge;
GOREFATHER (30)[S+2, AP2, Armorbane,murderous strike(to-wound 6 = instant death, 2-handed, unwieldy];
Crimson Killer (20)pistol 12” S7,AP2,soulblaze;
brass collar of Bhorghaster (20) bearer nullify on 4+ to deny. If you nullify that, that psyker suffers perils
Bloodfeeder (30) crazy S+1,AP2 axe does 2D6 attacks but each roll of 1 is a wound to you no armor saves;
Berzerker's Glaive (30) S +2 AP3 demon weapon, specialist weapon, 2-handed, melee, epitome of rage (bearer gains FnP & IWND but loses Indep Character rule


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
Any change to the Khorne Lord of Skulls? Is it still a ridiculous 888 points?

haha, no


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Roknar wrote:
@VeteranNoob: Could you please clarify the Speartip strike rule for Black Legion?
Does the guaranteed first turn deepstrike also apply to vehicles the warlord is embarked on?
And does it apply to all units, that is to say, including vehicles?

Just says if this is your primary detachment any DS units come on 3+ on turn 1. On top of this, if your warlord has DS (like, terminator?) you can choose to automatically pass his units reserve roll on turn 1. But nothing more specific than that I'm afraid.

Oh my. Talisman of Burning Blood (25) bearer's unit can move 3” more in move, run and charge; so that's an extra 9 inch movement oO. 12 for zerkers. Sweet

a fat guy wrote:
How does the Night Fighting rule work for the Night Lords exactly? For example, I could just turn on Night Fighting for turn 3, and then it'd be gone the following turn?

Do they block out the sun somehow?

You just get nightfighting as normal rules, except you want it, you automatically get it. No Mr. Burns in power armor to block out the sun...

VeteranNoob thank you for putting the effort into spoiling traitor legions for us all, you have made me personally a very happy Slaanesh player.

yeah, I'm still dancing between forums so apologies if wires get crossed. Some may be cross-posting and helping on my behalf Personally, as a HH lover, I love this book. But I think DG, NL, BL, and EC, and especially AL come out winners. IW require some maneuvering but even though fortifications have barrage, that smacks of clear future-proofing to me. My personal vote for lowest is WB. But just IMO.

Can you confirm that Bloodfeed is a flat 2d6 attacks (so ignoring the characters attack value)? As opposed to +2d6.
Also it would be great if you could compile the relics of all the legions in a post like that
Thanks again for your time man ^^

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
And Death Guard makes CSM appealing.

Sure, you lose the poisoned weapons and blight grenades....

But you gain more bodies, just as resilient and can bring along a relentless Heavy Weapon...

The purist in me says that they shouldn't exist. There aren't "Plague Marines" and then "Death Guard Marines that aren't Plague Marines". All Death Guard are Plague Marines. It's not as if there are Thousand Sons Marines and then Marines with the Mark of Tzeentch.

How so? Isn't it like with berzerkers? Every world eater is a berzerker, but not every berzeker is a world eater. So you 'd have deathguard that are all fully bloated but also bloated guys that aren't deathguard. which in game turns could be either plague marines or marines with the mark of nurgle.

 VeteranNoob wrote:
yeah, I'm still dancing between forums so apologies if wires get crossed. Some may be cross-posting and helping on my behalf Personally, as a HH lover, I love this book. But I think DG, NL, BL, and EC, and especially AL come out winners. IW require some maneuvering but even though fortifications have barrage, that smacks of clear future-proofing to me. My personal vote for lowest is WB. But just IMO.

I'd argue IW actually did pretty well, there chapter tactics may feel abit incomplete, but the Oblitirator troops + the Oblitirator within 12 being able to fire twice relic could end up being really strong, especially if it stacks, with the cult of destruction formation allowing for obliterators to fire 3 times in 1 shooting phase, they also gained 6+ FNP which makes them bit more tanky.

 Rydria wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:
yeah, I'm still dancing between forums so apologies if wires get crossed. Some may be cross-posting and helping on my behalf Personally, as a HH lover, I love this book. But I think DG, NL, BL, and EC, and especially AL come out winners. IW require some maneuvering but even though fortifications have barrage, that smacks of clear future-proofing to me. My personal vote for lowest is WB. But just IMO.

I'd argue IW actually did pretty well, there chapter tactics may feel abit incomplete, but the Oblitirator troops + the Oblitirator within 12 being able to fire twice relic could end up being really strong, especially if it stacks, with the cult of destruction formation allowing for obliterators to fire 3 times in 1 shooting phase, they also gained 6+ FNP which makes them bit more tanky.

that's quite true!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Roknar wrote:
Can you confirm that Bloodfeed is a flat 2d6 attacks (so ignoring the characters attack value)? As opposed to +2d6.
Also it would be great if you could compile the relics of all the legions in a post like that
Thanks again for your time man ^^

confirm bloodfeed is flat 2D6 attacks, ignoring your normal A characteristic. You still gain plus 1 on charge, and such.
re: relics, working on that. need a bit of time.

Berzerker's Glaive (30) S +2 AP3 demon weapon, specialist weapon, 2-handed, melee, epitome of rage (bearer gains FnP & IWND but loses Indep Character rule

Ahh... my old friend. It is good to see you.

Shame you had to bring your slowed cousin Bloodfeeder to the party.

Man i wish Fabius Bile could have been used in a EC army, I would have loved to have had some drugged up EC super warriors

VeteranNoobMade, a few questions:

1. Generally speaking, what is the fluff of the Talisman of Burning Blood?
2. What are the EC and DG Relics?
3. Do IW get anything special for Havocs? We're getting some crossed wires here and I just want to make sure.
4. Are there any rules for dedicating/marking vehicles/Helbrutes/Daemon Engines/anything like that?
5. Which of the Legions can get Daemons aside from 1KSons?
6. How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

 Roknar wrote:
How so? Isn't it like with berzerkers? Every world eater is a berzerker, but not every berzeker is a world eater. So you 'd have deathguard that are all fully bloated but also bloated guys that aren't deathguard. which in game turns could be either plague marines or marines with the mark of nurgle.

Your own logic defeats itself. I'm not saying all Plague Marines are Death Guard Marines. I'm saying all Death Guard Marines are Plague Marines. Since when are there Death Guard Marines that weren't Plague Marines?

Veteranoob can you break down the Slaanesh relics and Warlord Traits? On the Combat Drugs last all game?

Also do the Legions get to re-roll their warlord traits?

Well the original vets are, but they recruit new marines too. I see that saying to refer to the original legionnaires only. The new guys would also be deathguard, just not quite as far along on the bile-scale. They'll get there eventually, but yea.

Veteranoob, what are the new Daemon Weapon relics, and who gets them?

It's always nice to slaughter Imperials with a friend, even if he wants to kill you!

Anyone else noticed that Night Lords can get 2+ cover bikers, by combining there legion traits with the +1 cover save armour relic ?

Thanks for the review. As a CSM player who's army usually includes 80+% of my points into CSM squads, I'm really happy with how this is all looking.

All DG are Plague Marines, and when somebody joins the DG they offer themselves to Nurgle and are given the viruses that make the Plague Marines. It's similar to joining the World Eaters and receiving the pain engines, etc. I'll find the source when when I have time, but it's not new lore. I suppose having non-Plague Marines as 'inductees' would be appropriate enough. That being said, I'm not too fond of ordinary Chaos Marines taking away the focus from Cult Troops in a Cult Legion detachment.

You are a god among men who Veterananoob so thank you!

My main question is around the demon engine auxiliary consistently listed as one of the 8 standard auxiliary formations and I'm curious what that is. Thanks!

Also, does just the black legion war band which you list as being able sub chosen for chaos marines the only one that gets that option? IE can a Death guard war band sub plague marines or similar per legion? Thanks!

 Marshal Loss wrote:
All DG are Plague Marines, and when somebody joins the DG they offer themselves to Nurgle and are given the viruses that make the Plague Marines. It's similar to joining the World Eaters and receiving the pain engines, etc. I'll find the source when when I have time, but it's not new lore. I suppose having non-Plague Marines as 'inductees' would be appropriate enough. That being said, I'm not too fond of ordinary Chaos Marines taking away the focus from Cult Troops in a Cult Legion detachment.

The problem with that logic is that Plague marines for some reason lose the ability to use heavy or other weapons.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
All DG are Plague Marines, and when somebody joins the DG they offer themselves to Nurgle and are given the viruses that make the Plague Marines. It's similar to joining the World Eaters and receiving the pain engines, etc. I'll find the source when when I have time, but it's not new lore. I suppose having non-Plague Marines as 'inductees' would be appropriate enough. That being said, I'm not too fond of ordinary Chaos Marines taking away the focus from Cult Troops in a Cult Legion detachment.

The problem with that logic is that Plague marines for some reason lose the ability to use heavy or other weapons.

they're in disrepair, just like the drop pods and such! still though, relentless is great. fire bolters/plasmas/AUTOCANNONS AND SUCH (on the normal troopers) and charge in to wipe up. sweet.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
All DG are Plague Marines, and when somebody joins the DG they offer themselves to Nurgle and are given the viruses that make the Plague Marines. It's similar to joining the World Eaters and receiving the pain engines, etc. I'll find the source when when I have time, but it's not new lore. I suppose having non-Plague Marines as 'inductees' would be appropriate enough. That being said, I'm not too fond of ordinary Chaos Marines taking away the focus from Cult Troops in a Cult Legion detachment.

The problem with that logic is that Plague marines for some reason lose the ability to use heavy or other weapons.

No problem at all, the final virus leaves them allergic to any heavy weapons!

Instead of modifying, here's a new post with spell names, all relics and some clarifications. I'm almost off to bed so hope this helps and I can do some questions for a few minutes then tomorrow as available. Cheers!

Did this fast as fans cracking the whip behind me so pardon auto spell errors, if any abbreviations don’t make sense ad just ask if you have any questions. Thanks, fans for your support and patience!

Codex Supplement: Traitor Legions $35 USD pre-order Dec. 3, available Dec. 10

Disclaimer: I’m not a competitive beat-face player but love themed armies and fluff and when that marries into a playable force I can use on the tabletop I’m happy. I’m also only recently become a CSM player last week with WoM and Thousand Sons release (army already being built and getting some paint). However, I am a Horus Heresy nut and if any of you have listened to this podcast before (Combat Phase podcast) you’ll know how I love me some heresy. If you are looking for new rules for Heresy models from FW or plastic GW HH products then I’m afraid to tell you that is not here. As I’ve said before, no new models accompany this or the Codex: Imperial Agents books this week or next, however, in 2017, so few weeks away…we should have quite a good first quarter (at the very least). That said, as a Heresy player I’m impressed with most of the flavoring given to these legions. Some like Alpha Legion or Death Guard (my 30K army) or even World Eaters are pretty sweet enemy opinion. But you decide for yourself.
The episode of Combat Phase (www.combatphase.com) with this review is coming soon but in the meantime for all who are chomping at the bit, let’s begin...

Book contents
Most of the book is data sheets and even more is creating the 9 legions to give you themey armies, special rules, artifacts, warlord traits, objective markers, expanded Nurgle and Slaanesh lore for DG & EC respectively.This means, like Tzeencth, now 6 + 1 primaries power. As with Wrath of Magnus, you can make any CSM army into a specific legion given certain modifications, then the army gains additional special rules and when an army is composed of at lest 1 core and 1 auxiliary formation you get a formation with extra benefits. If you warlord is from this legion detachment it becomes your primary detachment and all in the primary detachment gain the benefits. Just with recent supplements an example is given when building a legion force where a gamer has a collection of models and the example walks through how he/she would separate models into a primary detachment with the bulk and a HQ & 2+ troops at least to for a CAD which gains objective secured.

The book opens with some fluff for the Long War and a page with killer artwork for each of the 9 legions presented here. We see the usual inclusion of high quality art and photography of models engaged in combat we’re used to from GW. This is a supplement to codex Chaos Space Marines so any new datasheets here replace what is in CSM. New wargear is on pages 135-136. The new rules vehicle squadrons from Traitor’s Hate are included where Chaos vindicators and predators can be taken as a squadron. I think especially the vindicator one is best, and would be quite fluffy in an Iron Warriors list.

Very fluff choices, all around in my opinion. Legions hating their old Heresy enemies, how they score, relics and traits but especially primary detachment rules.

Vindicators: 120 base/for 2nd & 3rd models (minimum cost: 360 pts) - gains Linebreaker Bombardment: Instead of firing all 3, select 1 vindicator to fire the demolisher cannon which now becomes 24”, S10, AP2, Ordinance but uses the 10” Apocalyptic Blast template and Ignores cover

Predators: 75 base/ for 2nd & 3rd (minimum cost 225) if all 3 predators are on field they gain monster hunter and tank hunter.

General layout formations reflect the fighting style of each legion, taking into account how steeped in Chaos they may be. So without further ado

Legions- every legion has 6 exclusive warlord traits, artifacts, tactical objectives, rules for CSM in their legion army, and if its detachment is the primary detachment allows them to re-roll legion warlord trait.
For formations I’m not copy/pasting all so see the first occurrence of the general formations for details)

1. Black legion
CSM become black if: Abaddon is the only unique; any unit that can take VotLW do so at no cost; Psykers (games goes for Demon psykers)from Nurgle, Slaanesh, or Tzeentch can choose to generate all their spells from these lords respectively
Gains: Endless hatred (units w/VotLW have Hatred; but also can re-roll failed to-hits every round of close combat vs. unit which contains armies of imperium in it); First among traitors (Chaos Termies & Chosen are troops)
Designer’s note: The Black Crusader warlord trait provides preferred enemy space marine which includes everything from factions: Space Marines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Legion of the Damned, SWolves)
Warlord: Warlord & friendly w/in 12”have pref enemy SM (see designer’s note above); Warlord can refill Chaos Boon/Gift of Mutation but accept result; gets shooting template S4, AP5, assault 1, soul blaze, 1 use only (LAME!); gets It Will Not Die!; melee weapons gains instant death on to-wound roll of 6; Warlord & friendly w/in 12” stubborn
Artefacts: -
Crucible of Lies (25) -1T but re-roll invuln saves of 1
Eye of the Night (75) once per game, in place of shooting range infinite, S5, AP 4, Heavy 1, lg blast, haywire, maelstrom, ignores cover, 1-use only
The Hands of Darkness (50) instead of cc use SX2 AP1 melee, armorbane, flesh bane, instant death
Last Memory of Yuranthos (30 Psyker only, gain 1 mastery level, this new spell must be sunburst pyromania) , declare range, 12” charge 2, 18” charge 3 if perils using boosted range auto-death, no roll
The skull of Ker’ngar (40) gain eternal warrior and adam will
The Spineshard Blade (30) S user, AP3 melee, demon weapon, quicksilver (+1 initiative in cc)
Black Legion Speartip - Heralds of the Black Crusade (all non-vehicles gain fear and crusader); Speatrip strike(Deep Strike can try to come in 1st turn on 3+, if Warlord has DS his unit auto-pass turn 1 DS reserve)
1+ Core Black Legion warband (1 lord, -1 sorcerer, 2-6 SM and/or chosen, 1-3 raptor/warp t, 1-3 havocs/helbrutes)- roll twice on boon& choose 1 or both results); Hounds of Abaddon (1 Lord, 1-3 Kh berry, 1-3 CSM, 1-3 raptors, warp t, or bikes combo) - once/game can run & charge same round; charge roll of 8+ before mods +1 str during assault phase
1+ Aux Lost & Damned, Helforged wrack, Deamon Engine, Heldrake Terror, Cult of destruction, Fist of the Gods, (Raptor Talon, Terminator annihliation Force, Spawn (1-3 spawn)
0-5 Command Bringers of Despair (Abby + termies- termies get WS5, charge roll 8 = +1 str assault ), Cyclopian Cabal (3-5 sorc- each pay phase can cast shroud of deceit, gets bonus dice per sorc w/in 12”. [pick non vehicle enemy w/in 30’ not locked in combat, make that unit shoot as if it were yours ), Chosen of Abaddon (1-4 lords/sorc, unit of chosen or terms for each lord/sorc——joined units are fearless, each Lord or sort gets free boon role before deployment refill spans & apotheosis ), Lord of the Legion (1 of following: Abaddon, Chas Lord, Sorcerer, dark apostle or demon prince)
tactical objectives:
1VP for destroying a unit in turn; 1 VP if enemy failed morale/pin/fear; D3Vp if kill IndChar; D6 & 1VP if you get that obj [common Chaos one]; 1VP if kill unit/D3 if killed by VotLW; 1Vp if manifested power, D3 if conjuration, D3+3 if summoned a Greater demon

2 - Alpha legion (happy with this fluff/rules!)
Must: if no unique, no marks, if so get VotLW free, sorcerer can choose all powers from it’s God’s discipline
gains: Forward Operatives: Chosen become troops; Chosen, CSM, cultists gain infiltrate; Many Heads of the Hydra:if warlord slain pick a new friendly character from AL detachment or formation. He generates warlord trait immediately. Can do this as long as you can. Opponent won’t get Slay the Warlord if they haven’t killed last remaining warlord from this
WT: can gain infiltrate; once per game friendly AL character w/same “type” as you and can swap their positions; from turn 2 pick a reserve unit to come on auto for each turn; stealth warlord; cultists w/in 12” get furious charge & FnP 6+
relics:
The Mindveil (30)start of your move move 3D6 immediately, can take you from combat & enemy cannot consolidate;
Blade of Hydra (30) S user AP 5,melee, demon weapon, rending, multi headed (every roll of 6 to hit generate another attack—these do explode! so, until you don’t roll a 6)
Viper’s Bite (15) 24” S5 AP2,rapid fire
The Drakescale Plate (25) armor gives 2+ save w/2+ invuln vs. flamer weapons;
Hyrda’s Teeth (15) bolter gets blast, ignore cover, poison 2+;
Icon of Insurrection (25) give friendly cultists w/in 12” zealot.
army: Hidden deployment (all non-vehical) shrouded 1st turn; cult uprising (cultist units destroyed on 4+ back into ongoing reserves)
Core: Chaos warband
command: Lord of Legion
aux: 8 formations (see Black Legion)
tact obj: capture enemy/unclaimed building; your cultists get destroyed gain VP, destroy a DS,H&Run, Outflank or scout unit; your infiltrators kill a unit; get into enemy deploy zone; kill character (more for more characters)

3 - Iron Warriors
must: no unique, no marks take VotLW, Psykers from gods (see above)
gain: Blood feud: VotLW re-roll failed to hit every combat round vs. Imp Fists, but IF get Hatred YOU; iron w/in, iron w/out: VotLW gain 6+ FnP, Patrons of technovirus: Obliterators and Mutilators are troops; siege masters: units re-roll armor pen vs buildings it didn’t glance or pen. +1 damage big roll result; IW havens, obits, mutilators get tank hunter
WT: FnP 4+; Fearless; give your terrain piece +1 cover; Friendly Oblits w/in 12” can fire twice in consecutive shooting phases; WL + unit have split fire & counterattack while in cover; friendly vehicles get It WND w/in 6” WL
relics:
Warpbreacher (25) warp smith can possess a vehicle each turn as daemonic possession vehicle equipment;
Nest of Mechserpents (20) warp smith only in challenge, resolve first 2 hits normally if both hit remainder of attacks have Instant Death;
axe of forge master (25) S +1 AP2 melee, armor bane, master crafted, unwieldy;
Fleshmetal exoskeleton (30) armor 2+ + gains IWND;
Cranium malevolous (30) at enemy shooting phase enemy vehicles w/in 2D6’ of bearer suffer automatic haywire hit, no cover allowed;
siege breaker mace (25) S+2 Ap 4, concussive, masterccraft, siege breaker - signal S10, AP 1 attack melee
army: master annihilation: barrage and word weapons can choose to re-roll scatter die; intractable brotherhood: all non-veh are stubborn; on or in fortification gain fearless instead
cor: chasse warband
command: Lords of legion
aux: Stronghold (1-3 fortifications + others
tact obj: VP if kill unit even partially w/in 18” your table edge; VP if kill unit that was controlling an obj; VP if your oblits/mutil destroyed a unit; roll die and get that obj; Vp if enemy forts/buildings lost HP (more if more);destroy enemy vehicle
(more is more)

4 Night Lords -again, for me, fluffy as gak!
must: same as above
gains: In midnight clad: VotLW gain fear, night vision. stealth; Skyborne horror: raptors are troops; Terror tactics: enemy locked in combat w/you must -2 leadership for Fear
WT: H7Run; re-eroll to-wound 1 in assault; Hatred; re-roll cover saves; WL&unit get HoWrath; Rampage
relics:
scourging chain (10)melee weapons gain shred;
Claws of Black Hunt (40) Ap3 rending/shredding master-crafted claws;
Curzes Orb (20) (ha!) re-roll 1 on run, hit & wound;
Stormbolt Plate (20) 2+ armor (cover improves by 1);
Viox Daemonicus (30) enemy w/in 6” -1 Ldsh & -1 from reserve rolls
Talons of Night Terror (20) each fight sub phase make additional D3 attacks (or D6 if turn you charged) S user AP5, melee, shred
army: Strike Hard/Fast: re-roll failed charge; Nocturnal Warfare: You assure Night Fight if want…during that turn all your non-vehicles cover improved by 1
core: Chaos warband OR Raptor Talon
command: Lord of Legion
Aux: the 8
tac obj: kill a character, make successful charge, your DS reserves kill a unit, destroy enemy in assault (D3 for 3); D3 if kill at least 2 units controlling obj; enemy fails pin, fear or moral (improves)

5 Word Bearers - tactical objectives are higher reward for them, I think.
must: no unique, units w/mark already can't play, though those w/option to upgrade mark may do so, VotLW; same w/psykers & demon Psyk = their gods
gain: unholy pact: possessed are troops; also you harness on 3+ to manifest conjuration from deamon(malefic); Blood Feud: VotLW re-roll hits vs. Ultramines each round but ULTYs hate you; Profane Zeal: WB units w/in 6” of Dark Apostles gain zealots
WT: Zealot or allow zealots to refill to-hit in cc; psyker 1; 1 unit w/in12” gets counterattack, fearless, furious charge, relentless; Adam Will & Fearless; You or friendly w/in12” can add/subtract 1 from the 2nd die in Boon Table; gain immediate boon

-WB relics
skull of monarchia (15) bearer & unit can re-roll to-hit rolls in CC vs. armies of imperium, and if vs. ultramarines can also reroll wounds.
crown of blasphemer (30) 4+ invuln, adam will, fear
malefic tome (10)know 1 additional power from demon(maelific)
script of erebus (15) once/game start of any psy phase generate D6 warp charges
Baleful iron(15) units must re-roll successful chrages at you/unit and lose bonus charge attack
curded Croszius (35) melee S+2, consussive, Bane of Men (you have pref enemy: armies of imperium)
Core: chaos warband, L&Damned
command: Lord of Legion
aux: The 8
obj: your zealots make a charge; your demon kills a unit in assault; kill enemy character; D3VP for successful conjuration; D3 VP if you control obj enemy did; 1VP if you roll on boon table (improves)

6 World Eaters (Blood for the Blood GOD!!!)
must: only Kharn; no psyker scum; only mk Khorne; VotLW, Demons must be of Khorne
gain: Berzerker Horde: Khorne Berz are troops; Blessing Khorne: VotLW have adam will; Butcher’s Nails: VoLW have fearless & furious charge
WT: Rampager; each boon table roll can instead boost attack stat by 1; at end of enemy charge subphase your unit can charge; re-roll hit/wound in challenge; locked in combat gain FnP & Eternal Warrior (yeah baby!); you $ friendly Mk Khorne w/in 8” charge 3D6 & pick highest

WE - relics
Talisman of Burning Blood (25) bearer's unit can move 3” more in move, run and charge;
GOREFATHER (30)[S+2, AP2, Armorbane,murderous strike(to-wound 6 = instant death, 2-handed, unwieldy];
Crimson Killer (20)pistol 12” S7,AP2,soulblaze;
brass collar of Bhorghaster (20) bearer nullify on 4+ to deny. If you nullify that, that psyker suffers perils
Bloodfeeder (30) crazy S+1,AP2 axe does 2D6 attacks but each roll of 1 is a wound to you no armor saves;
Berzerker's Glaive (30) S +2 AP3 demon weapon, specialist weapon, 2-handed, melee, epitome of rage (bearer gains FnP & IWND but loses Indep Character rule

army: Blood Mad! after deploy/inflitrate but before 1st player starts turn all non-vehicle units can make immediate 2D6move(roll separate); ALSO non-veh & walkers can always re-roll failed charges
coe: haps warband, maelstrom of gore
command: Lord of legion
aux: 8
obj: deny witch; kill enemy controlling an obj; 3+ your units made charge; kill enemy in challenge (improves); destroy unit (improves); destroy in assault

7Thousand Sons - EXACTLY THE SAME AS WRATH OF MAGNUS SO SEE THERE

8 Death Guard (yeah, baby!!) Count the Seven!
must: Typhus only unique; only Nurgle marks; VotLW; DP need Mk Nurgle; psykers can take all from Nurgle
gain: Gift of Nurgle: VotLW gain fearless & FnP but -1 initiative (doesn’t affect Typhus or Plague marines); Inexorable Advance: VotLW get relentless; Lords of Plague Host: Plague Marines are troops
WT: FnP;IWNDie; +1 W; Eternal warrior; improved Poison by 1; units w/in 7” get contagion
relics:
PPuscleaver (10)poison 2+ weapon;
plague skill Glothia (15) once/game range 8” S1 AP - assault 1,poison 2+ lg blast
Pandemic Staff (30); poison 2+ staff[range template S1 Ap5 assault 1opison 2][melee S+2 AP4, melee, concussive, poison 2];
Dolorus Knell (25) start friendly fight sub phase give units fear; give a dude fear,
Poxwalker Hive (20) at start of each turn FnP to friendly cultist w/in 7”. can’t run or shot rest of game but have FnP & fearless. & D3 cultists come back to life;
Plaguebringer (35) AP3 poison 4+ deamon weapon
army: Disgustingly Resilient: re-roll FnP rolls of 1; Cloud of Flies: ranged hits more than 18” away give you stealth rule for resolving attack
core: Chaos wdrbamd; Plague Colony (Typhus + 3-7 plague marines—gain fear & enemy units w/in7” reduce I & WS by 1 in fight phase, if 7 plague marines add -1 Toughness to that)
command: Lord of Legion
aux: Lost and the Damned + 8
obj: Vp if 3+ your units on enemy table half; make 7 FnP rolls; kill unit w/weapon or psychic power using poisoned; name a IC and VP if he lives; D3Vp if you control EXACTLY 3 obj; kill 7 models (improves)
Access to full discipline of Nurgle 6 + primaris

9 Emperor’s Children
must: only Luciius unique; need mk Slaanesh; only mk Slaamesh; VotLW; psykers & demons can take full from Slaanesh expanded discipline
gain: fueled by sensation: VotLW gain Fearless & FnP6+ (units w/icon of excess make that FnP4+), VotLW if slain n fight sub phase before it swings gets 1 immediate attack; Matsers Kakophoni: Noise Marines are troops
WT: gain Warrior; +2 Init; all 1 to FnP of WL & his unit; Gain Fear & melee opponents take fear on 3D6; +1 attack each team you lose a wound (returns if healed); can auto-pass look out sir!
relics:
Intoxicating elixir (25) make D3 rolls on combat drugs, cumulative, ;
Shriekwave (20) gun 12” S8,AP2, assault D6, mental trauma (before attack target takes ldsh test and f failed you re-roll these to-wound);
soul snare Lash (20) soulsnare- (to wound 6 is AP2/instant death) if range( 6” S4 AP5 assault 2, sousnare) or melee S user AP5 melee, soulsnare
Endless Grin (10) you have fear, enemies w/in6” -1 leadreship;
Bolts of ecstatic vexation (15) bolt weapons gain blast, ignores cover and pinning;
Blissgiver (30) AP3 catatonic trance - target must pass ldsh test/wound or die
army: combat drugs! roll after deployment for all your non-vehicles
1- +1 WS
2- +1 BS
3- +1 Init
4- +1 S
5 - +1 T
6- +1 A
core: chaos warband, Kakophani (Lucius or Ch Lord, 3-6 noise marines—get split fire & all sonic weapons gain shred. If take 6 noise marines they also get +1 St guns)
command: lord of legion
aux: lost & damned + 8
obj: destroy enemy w/noise weapons; kill enemy in challenge; kill a unit falling back; Vp per unit fails morale, fear, pinning (max 3); your enemy picks obj marker and D3Vo when you take it; D3 VP if your enemy controls no objectives (improves)


--Nurgle Disciplne
primaris: Nurgle's Rot [1]
nova, doesnt affecr mk Nurgle or demon Nurgle S2, AP5, assault D6+1 (Poisone 4+)

Weapon Virus malediction 24" target unit's gain Gets Hot [1]
Fleshy abundance blessing friendly psyker w/in 14" imediately regain D3 wounds lost earlier
Blades of putrefaction blessing range 14" unit's melee weapons gain poison 4+, or poison 2+ if they already had 4 [1]
Gift of contagion meldeiction enemy w/in 48" - roll on table to reduce their stats [1]
Plague wind witchfire 12" s1 AP 2, large blast poison 4+ [2]
Curse of the Leper friendly or malediction, range 21", +1 or =1 t strength & tough





-Slaanesh Discipline
primaris Sensory overload witchfire 24" S4, AP4, assault 4, blind, concussive, pinning [1]
Hysterical Frenzy blessing 12" roll on table for bonus Init, str, or att [1]
Delightful Agonies blessing 12" gain FnP 4 [1]
Symphony of Pain malediction 21", takes 1 BS and WS from target, any sonic weapons shooting this targeted unit add +1 str (cumulative!) [1]
Sonic shockwave nova 9" S5 AP4 assault D6,pinning, ignores cover [1]
Aural Onslaught beam, 18" S8, AP2 assault 1, menal anguish (before attack, target takes ldsh test and if fails you reroll to-wounds here) [2]
Apoplectic Glee witchfire 24" S-special AP - assault 1, ignores cover, ecstacy (no roll to wound, rather all non-vehicles hit themselves using their own unmodified strength [2]


We get the 4 psy lores from before, and expanded Nurgle and Slaanesh disciplines plus primaris.
It’s a nice supplement and I think die-hard players of these legions will love it and do much better in game but also, more importantly, enjoy their games more. Yes, formations that are generic are in Traitor’s Hate, legion specific ones are in here, however, as are expanded Nurgle and Slaanesh lores. Thousand Sons are same as WoM. I love heresy and fluff so I give this a
4.7 (I like Nurgle)/5




GW’s description from NZ page
Description
The Traitor Legions of the Chaos Space Marines have waged terrible wars of hate and vengeance upon the Imperium of Mankind for ten thousand years. From the Daemon worlds of the Eye of Terror, they plot the destruction of the empire they once helped to build. They have neither forgotten nor forgiven the loyalists, nor the False Emperor whom they serve. These warriors will not rest until the galaxy is burning, and the Emperor’s putrid carcass is cast down from the Golden Throne into the filth where it belongs.

Codex Supplement: Traitor Legions is a 136-page, full-colour softback supplement to Codex: Chaos Space Marines. It contains a wealth of additional content and rules that any Chaos Space Marines army can use, with a huge array of rules for all nine of the Traitor Legions.

In The Book

- Datasheets for the following models:
- Kharn the Betrayer
- Ahriman
- Exalted Sorcerer
- Tzaangors
- Rubric Marines
- Scarab Occult Terminators
- Khorne Lord of Skulls
- Magnus the Red

- 26 Formations for Chaos Space Marines
- Chaos Warband
- Maelstrom of Gore
- The Lost and the Damned
- Helforged Warpack
- Heldrake Terror Pack
- Cult of Destruction
- Fist of the Gods
- Raptor Talon
- Terminator Annihilation Force
- Favoured of Chaos
- Trinity of Blood
- The Chosen of Abaddon
- The Bringers of Despair
- The Hounds of Abaddon
- Daemon Engine Pack
- Cyclopia Cabal
- The Tormented
- Black Legion Warband
- War Cabal
- War Coven
- Tzaangor Warherd
- Sekhmet Conclave
- Ahriman’s Exiles
- Rehati War Sect
- Plague Colony
- Kakophoni;

- Chaos Artefacts, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives and an exclusive Detachment for each of the 9 Traitor Legions;

- Updated Disciplines of Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh, as well as the Sinistrum, Heretech, Ectomancy and Geomortis Psychic Disciplines;

- Armoury of the Chaos Space Marines.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 buddha wrote:
You are a god among men who Veterananoob so thank you!

My main question is around the demon engine auxiliary consistently listed as one of the 8 standard auxiliary formations and I'm curious what that is. Thanks!

Also, does just the black legion war band which you list as being able sub chosen for chaos marines the only one that gets that option? IE can a Death guard war band sub plague marines or similar per legion? Thanks!

They laid this out weird, gotta say. Demon engine is BL only. As I went back through relics, BL is boss! Matches my idea of the fluff. Wouldn't feth with them.
For BL Chaos terminators and Chosen, both are now troops.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

caelim wrote:
Veteranoob, what are the new Daemon Weapon relics, and who gets them?

It's always nice to slaughter Imperials with a friend, even if he wants to kill you!

see new post withe everything in.

Quick question about the Word Bearers relics:

Can a Daemon Prince take the Crown of the Blasphemer? They can't take a regular sigil, that's why I'm asking.

Is the Cursed Crozius really 35 points just for a power maul with preferred enemy(Imperium)? Or does it have other bonuses or better AP than a regular power maul?

 Sersi wrote:
Veteranoob can you break down the Slaanesh relics and Warlord Traits? On the Combat Drugs last all game?

Also do the Legions get to re-roll their warlord traits?

all legions get the re-roll their legion warlord trait
EC Warlord
gain eternal Warrior;
+2 Init;
add 1 to FnP of WL & his unit;
Gain Fear & melee opponents locked in cc w/warlord & his unit take fear on 3D6;
+1 attack each time you lose a wound (returns if healed);
can auto-pass look out sir!

I'm liking the option to add some ranged relics.

I'm a bit sad about the IW. Obliterators suffer from point bloat and awkward weapon rules. Overall my favorite legion is one the lower levels of this release but that's ok. Maybe they'll get more stuff come 8th.

Alpha Legion/DG/EC seem to be the standouts to me. If Night Lords had gotten hit and run added in that would have been in the upper tier too.

Seems a solid release.