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iproxtaco wrote:Without some form of navigator, the Tau will not achieve full Warp travel. The Nissacar are not navigators, the Kroot don't trust them, and they do not have access to human navigators of any skill in which to ask for their aid, or any at all. Plus, they have nothing like the Astronomican.

They can do as much research as they want. It'll be useless without a navigator.

Of course, they could easily go down the road of the Tyranid or Necron FTL, which is a lot more achievable.


I love that map, really puts into perspective how small the Tau actually are. The Imperium could easily delegate the resources to crush them. But that's for the other thread.

Even a scorpion fits into a larger picture.

-Loki- wrote:Not really. They kind of 'skim' the warp. While its safer, it's also far, far slower. They really can't navigate the warp properly because it's impossble without something like the Astronomican and Navigators.

1:5 the speed of imperial travel.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

-Loki- wrote:

rockprime wrote:

-Loki- wrote:Not really. They kind of 'skim' the warp. While its safer, it's also far, far slower. They really can't navigate the warp properly because it's impossble without something like the Astronomican and Navigators.

They actually do have navigators of a psychic nature.
See: Nicassar.

Nicassar aren't psychic navigators at all. They're highly psychic, but they aren't navigators. They don't have interstellar travel ability.

The Nicassar ships known as Dhows are small maneuverable yet elegant yachts propelled by the psychic powers of the captain. But they lack any real interstellar capability. As such, they are often towed by Tau ships, and also provided with upgraded Tau weaponry, or they will travel slowly for centuries while in hibernation.

They're even slower at space travel than Tau. They're not a replacement for the Astronimican and Navigators. Think of it as psychic sublight travel.

Well no, because of their being towed, they move at the same speed. It's like if navigators slept on the outside of the ship, since the dhows are attached. I wonder how powerful a standard nicassar would be by Imperial mesure? gamma, beta level psyker maybe?

im2randomghgh wrote:1:5 the speed of imperial travel.

No matter how much you like putting forth this uncited statement, an Imperial craft can go across an entire segmentum in one jump (the source for THIS, by the way, would be the Rogue Trader roleplay-- and indeed, this can even be done without the Astronomican, even if it is a bit more difficult on the Navigator in question). This is something the Tau cannot do. They are, effectively, confined into their tiny little empire of a few dozen planets.

They have always been thus. Their FTL technology is inferior, much like many other aspects of their technology, such as their power armor, which is incredibly bulky to the point where it's larger than TDA despite containing a Tau who's smaller than a human.

Kilkrazy wrote:A bunch of species including humans conquered the galaxy without using warp drive and the Astronomican.

Humanity used warp travel before the Astronomican.

im2randomghgh wrote:Well no, because of their being towed, they move at the same speed.

Yes... they're being TOWED. They are not guiding the Tau

im2randomghgh wrote:I wonder how powerful a standard nicassar would be by Imperial mesure? gamma, beta level psyker maybe?

Most assuredly not. A gamma level psyker is exponentially more powerful than a Nicassar would be-- an entire race of Gamma level psykers would be set upon by daemons faster than you an Ork can yell WAAAGH! just before a good fight.

Kilkrazy wrote:
2. The Medusa V campaign ended with the Ethereals forbidding further research into warp technology.

How did Tau get to Medusa V in the first place? High-jack some Imperial ship?

Brother Coa wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:
2. The Medusa V campaign ended with the Ethereals forbidding further research into warp technology.

How did Tau get to Medusa V in the first place? High-jack some Imperial ship?

Probably trough a long journey.

im2randomghgh wrote:

-Loki- wrote:Not really. They kind of 'skim' the warp. While its safer, it's also far, far slower. They really can't navigate the warp properly because it's impossble without something like the Astronomican and Navigators.

1:5 the speed of imperial travel.

Evidence?

-Loki- wrote:

rockprime wrote:

-Loki- wrote:Not really. They kind of 'skim' the warp. While its safer, it's also far, far slower. They really can't navigate the warp properly because it's impossble without something like the Astronomican and Navigators.

They actually do have navigators of a psychic nature.
See: Nicassar.

Nicassar aren't psychic navigators at all. They're highly psychic, but they aren't navigators. They don't have interstellar travel ability.

The Nicassar ships known as Dhows are small maneuverable yet elegant yachts propelled by the psychic powers of the captain. But they lack any real interstellar capability. As such, they are often towed by Tau ships, and also provided with upgraded Tau weaponry, or they will travel slowly for centuries while in hibernation.

They're even slower at space travel than Tau. They're not a replacement for the Astronimican and Navigators. Think of it as psychic sublight travel.

Well no, because of their being towed, they move at the same speed. It's like if navigators slept on the outside of the ship, since the dhows are attached. I wonder how powerful a standard nicassar would be by Imperial mesure? gamma, beta level psyker maybe?

Melissia wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:A bunch of species including humans conquered the galaxy without using warp drive and the Astronomican.

Humanity used warp travel before the Astronomican.

Exactly. They didn't need the Astronomican.

Other factions didn't use and don't use the Warp.

Neither the Warp nor the Astronomican is required for FTL travel. There are different methods available.

Merely speculation, perhaps it is the subordination of humans to the Emporer that makes them dependent on the Astronomican nowadays.

The only difference is that Imperium is losing contacts with world beyond the range of Astronomican.
And we all know what happened after the Dark age of Technology when all contact was lost.

Brother Coa wrote:The only difference is that Imperium is losing contacts with world beyond the range of Astronomican.
And we all know what happened after the Dark age of Technology when all contact was lost.

The Emperor united mankind and went on a killing spree across the Galaxy, claiming a majority for his Imperium?






Sounds great! Let's wreck the thing straight away!

The Imperium does not need the astronomicon to travel in the warp, it is just helpful. They can be much more accurate now with their jumps.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:A bunch of species including humans conquered the galaxy without using warp drive and the Astronomican.

Humanity used warp travel before the Astronomican.

Exactly. They didn't need the Astronomican.

Other factions didn't use and don't use the Warp.

Neither the Warp nor the Astronomican is required for FTL travel. There are different methods available.

Merely speculation, perhaps it is the subordination of humans to the Emporer that makes them dependent on the Astronomican nowadays.

That was before the age of strife when the warp was in a bit better condition to what it is now. Look a the war between the Old Ones and the Necrons. Before their war the warp was described to be smooth as a glass but they messed it up. The Eldar creating Slaanesh along with the bloodshed of the age of strife probably made the warp worse thus facilitating the need of the Astronomican. The Astronomican is needed for accurate and fast travel for short range journeys and safe, fast, reliable and accurate for long journeys.

Look at this map - http://www.joachim-adomeit.de/wh40k/spacemap/map.html

Do you really think an ftl system that is good only for at most a sector can be used in managing a empire the size of the Imperium?


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As for conspiracy theories about the Astronomican being a form of control. Remember that the Emperor was trying to create a webway connection for the Human race that Magnus destroyed.

Their is only two races that do not use either the warp or a psychic mode of ftl and those are the Tyranids and the Necrons. Their is a new alien empire that is rising, I forgot the name, who is trying to steal from the Imperium - Navigators and the Warp drive so they can conquer Imperium space.

Except the Fall of the Eldar and the creation of Slaanesh ended the Age of Strife, instead of beginning it. The creation of Slaanesh caused the Warp to basically expend most of its pent up energy creating the Eye of Terror, thus caling it enough to allow for the Great Crusade.

It is unkown how humanity travelled the galaxy prior to the Age of Strife, we do know they used the Warp, but beyond that we don't know anything.

ChrisWWII wrote:Except the Fall of the Eldar and the creation of Slaanesh ended the Age of Strife, instead of beginning it. The creation of Slaanesh caused the Warp to basically expend most of its pent up energy creating the Eye of Terror, thus caling it enough to allow for the Great Crusade.

It is unkown how humanity travelled the galaxy prior to the Age of Strife, we do know they used the Warp, but beyond that we don't know anything.

Unless fluff has changed, the age of strife while caused by a number of factors, it primary cause was the beginning of the final stage of the Fall of the Eldar empire. The eye of terror was caused by Slaanesh's birth which blew away the warp storms but this doesn't mean the warp was made 100% calm again. The warp was able to be used for travel once more but it perils were made worse.

I love statements like "Tau technology is inferior" when their baseline armor is on par with veteran carapace armor, while they sport a baseline weapon superior to an Astartes Bolter.

Won't even mention the comedy that is the plasma comparison....


Tau FTL being in the spotlight only highlights a lack of travel the Tau don't need at present. The ability to jump from Terra to Macragge might be a useful asset to an Empire with massive distance between worlds. But for the Tau, such technology is pointless, all it would do is harm their allied races with an affinity to the warp.

When the day comes that the Tau need to create technology to make longer, faster jumps, rest assured, the Tau will create it, and it will most likely be yet again, superior to its Imperium technological counterpart.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:.....??......??..... etc etc ....

When the day comes that the Tau need to create technology to make longer, faster jumps, rest assured, the Tau will create it, and it will most likely be yet again, superior to its Imperium technological counterpart.

I am sure GW does a good job in fulfilling dreams.
Just not yours.....

BeefCakeSoup wrote:I love statements like "Tau technology is inferior" when their baseline armor is on par with veteran carapace armor, while they sport a baseline weapon superior to an Astartes Bolter.

Won't even mention the comedy that is the plasma comparison....


Tau FTL being in the spotlight only highlights a lack of travel the Tau don't need at present. The ability to jump from Terra to Macragge might be a useful asset to an Empire with massive distance between worlds. But for the Tau, such technology is pointless, all it would do is harm their allied races with an affinity to the warp.

When the day comes that the Tau need to create technology to make longer, faster jumps, rest assured, the Tau will create it, and it will most likely be yet again, superior to its Imperium technological counterpart.

Again you Tau players indulge your Tau mary-sue dream. These kind of statements make me wish GW would create a campaign where I could take my Ork army and fighting along side other Ork players, launch a massive Waaaaaagh!!!!!!!! into the Tau empire and basically genocide the entire Tau race and their allies. I never said the Tau are inferior in tech to the Imperium; I said that their tech is inferior to the Necrons. When we discuss the 40k universe we use fluff or rpg books, not codex stats as those were created for balance.

Firewarrior armour is now on par with high grade Carapace? Ha. Where do you get this from?
Longer range and better accuracy, not power per shot or rate of fire, if the Astartes were given a choice between a long barrelled low rate of fire and accurate plasma rifle or a short range, high power and good rate of fire bolt-gun with a huge variety of ammunition types, they would choose the bolter.

Yeah, the whole argument is negated simply because
"the Tau don't need it!"
And? Their method of FTL is STILL inferior to the Imperiums.

You can't know that they will just suddenly invent it because there's a need for better FTL. That's speculation and wishful thinking, not confirmed fact of any sort.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:I love statements like "Tau technology is inferior" when their baseline armor is on par with veteran carapace armor, while they sport a baseline weapon superior to an Astartes Bolter.

Won't even mention the comedy that is the plasma comparison....


Tau FTL being in the spotlight only highlights a lack of travel the Tau don't need at present. The ability to jump from Terra to Macragge might be a useful asset to an Empire with massive distance between worlds. But for the Tau, such technology is pointless, all it would do is harm their allied races with an affinity to the warp.

When the day comes that the Tau need to create technology to make longer, faster jumps, rest assured, the Tau will create it, and it will most likely be yet again, superior to its Imperium technological counterpart.

Again you Tau players indulge your Tau mary-sue dream. These kind of statements make me wish GW would create a campaign where I could take my Ork army and fighting along side other Ork players, launch a massive Waaaaaagh!!!!!!!! into the Tau empire and basically genocide the entire Tau race and their allies. I never said the Tau are inferior in tech to the Imperium; I said that their tech is inferior to the Necrons. When we discuss the 40k universe we use fluff or rpg books, not codex stats as those were created for balance.

It's mary-sue dreaming to imagine a race that has a vehicle on par with an Emperor Class titan, a rifle that surpasses the bolter, and suits that set the standard for face clucking in the 41st could yet add one more crazy ass invention to their already beast arsenal?

An invention that Necrons already have?

Yeah it is. All of the above things are Mary-sue dream wishing.

Locking thread for off topic.