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No,not really. So in othe word if someone make a mecha, we just have to find the earliest mecha design and said that the person got ripped off?

This days unless it is absolutely blantant we can't exactly say something is ripped off, after all we have used all of our cash generating idea

AvatarForm wrote:
As for IP... stormtroopers anyone?

What about them?

Retrias wrote:No,not really. So in othe word if someone make a mecha, we just have to find the earliest mecha design and said that the person got ripped off?

This days unless it is absolutely blantant we can't exactly say something is ripped off, after all we have used all of our cash generating idea

That is WHY you can't sue over it, It is everyones IP! GW sues small mini companies, coz they can, feth them
Small mini companies that are doing more than they are to further the hobby...they see a hole they fill it. And get fething sued.
Never forgetting in the early 90's late 80's GW appropriiated others "IP" and fething sold it in a magazine!

Kanluwen wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:
As for IP... stormtroopers anyone?

What about them?

Indeed are you talking about the models or the name?

If the answer is "yes" to either of the above you might want to check google

...stormtroopers anyone?

Sure, I'll eat anything

Ruckdog wrote:

kronk wrote:GW stole the idea for tyrranids and IG from Starship troopers.

Are you talking about the movie? IG and Tyranids already existed at that point. Eh, I would still say that GW got the idea of Space Marines from Starship Troopers, the book .

Starship Troopers is a novel written bei Robert Heinlein in 1959. I guess it was pretty much the standard work for any SciFi nerd, back when 40k was designed.

@Skinnereal: The basic idea behind it and the champions. Even the design of the Chaos Warriors. And the aesthetics.

The newer helmet designes (practically all non-beakies) are ripped off from Darth Vader.

Point at anything from RT regarding Chaos or aliens that are not Dwarfs, Orcs or Elves. In 9 times out of 10 it will be something that Lovecraft (or his successors) or Moorcock thought up.

Tyranids are a combination of StarCraft and Alien (and, consequently, H.R. Giger.)

StarCraft ripped the idea of 40k off, and GW in turn ripped the design of the Zerg off.

This could go on forever.

GW got away with it because they were either too insignificant or the original IP holder just thought it wouldn't be worth the bother. On the other hand, GW protects its so-called IP by classical bullying. They pick fights with people that won't fight back, AKA fans that create websites and very small companies. Which is why they act like headless chickens in an actuall lawsuit.

Kilkrazy wrote:I remember Genestealers being introduced in Space Hulk (1989).

The genestealers from one of the moons of Ymgarl. Back then they were only a pencil drawing, and had tentacles instead of a face, and were only found on one world. (Ymgarl.) Its a random creature in RT. By the time of Space Hulk they had faces.

Imperial Guard are clearly just humans in body armor with lasers. GW just ripped off The Epic of Gilgamesh for these "humans".

And, armor wasn't even their idea. They just stole that from the Ancient Greeks.

And, lasers are just focused light. So, GW got that idea from the Big Bang.

Must re read my translation of the Epic of Gilgamesh
- missed the bit about lasers

The Sumerians were a tad before the Ancient Greeks

The truth is, Britain in the late 1980s to early 90s was a pretty depressed place. The loss of traditional industries led to high unemployment and times were tough for a lot of people.

GW's fluff writers were no exception.

There simply wasn't the time or money to sit back and imagine a deep, rich, original background.

It was a hand to mouth existence. They were forced by circumstances to grab ideas from wherever they found them. The same applied to artists just as much.

Thus, all the core ideas and visualisations were secondhand or borrowings from prior work.

Fortunately for the modern game, the boom of the mid 90s and LoTR bubble provided GW with the cash to transform the fluff base of their game. Nowadays GW has a robust, original body of work to defend. They also have the cash to take on those predators who would shamelessly steal ideas such as power armoured soldiers, Eldar, insectoid alien monsters and the like.

Kilkrazy wrote:Thus, all the core ideas and visualisations were secondhand or borrowings from prior work.

I have white dwarfs from 1985-86 and in those there are art works featuring Space Marines... or at least what ended up being called Space Marines. The same art works appear again years later in the Rogue Trader book. They must have been bouncing those ideas around for quite a few years before they grew into 40k.

Korraz wrote:

Ruckdog wrote:

kronk wrote:GW stole the idea for tyrranids and IG from Starship troopers.

Are you talking about the movie? IG and Tyranids already existed at that point. Eh, I would still say that GW got the idea of Space Marines from Starship Troopers, the book .

Starship Troopers is a novel written bei Robert Heinlein in 1959. I guess it was pretty much the standard work for any SciFi nerd, back when 40k was designed.

@Skinnereal: The basic idea behind it and the champions. Even the design of the Chaos Warriors. And the aesthetics.

The newer helmet designes (practically all non-beakies) are ripped off from Darth Vader.

Point at anything from RT regarding Chaos or aliens that are not Dwarfs, Orcs or Elves. In 9 times out of 10 it will be something that Lovecraft (or his successors) or Moorcock thought up.

Tyranids are a combination of StarCraft and Alien (and, consequently, H.R. Giger.)

StarCraft ripped the idea of 40k off, and GW in turn ripped the design of the Zerg off.

This could go on forever.

GW got away with it because they were either too insignificant or the original IP holder just thought it wouldn't be worth the bother. On the other hand, GW protects its so-called IP by classical bullying. They pick fights with people that won't fight back, AKA fans that create websites and very small companies. Which is why they act like headless chickens in an actuall lawsuit.

You were doing so well up to the starcraft comment, the Tyranids were out before starcraft came about, also at this time Blizzard was a very small games developer and Games workshop was pretty large (it was steamrolling the table top industry).

If the the whole blizzard/gw lawsuit thing is true then GW infact designed them anyway.

No.

Times were ripe for Sci-Fi, and they (GW) were young and hungry with nothing but good ideas and fun.

They were gamers back then, not the faceless conglomerate D bag corperates that they are today.


It was a different time back then. The "IP" Idea was pretty alien to most of us. It was more of a line of thinking like- "Hey thats a great idea, think I can try that out for a game?"

and it was pretty much open season based on the time, the medium, films books, gaming, etc.


It was the time of the necromancers....



GDW, Avalon Hill, Heavy Metal,AD 2000, TSR, FASA.....


good times, mans..... good times.

Daston wrote:

You were doing so well up to the starcraft comment, the Tyranids were out before starcraft came about, also at this time Blizzard was a very small games developer and Games workshop was pretty large (it was steamrolling the table top industry).

If the the whole blizzard/gw lawsuit thing is true then GW infact designed them anyway.

Tyranids are older. The OLD Tyranids. Look at the New Style Nids. SC was released in 1998, 3rd Edition Nids 2001. The jump is extreme, the new Nids were different in nearly every way. A certain zerg-like style is undeniable.

All I remember of Tyranids in RT and 2nd were Genestealers and their cults, and Gaunts with guns.
The next time I looked, years later, Zergs had poured in, and Tyranid was a word I had to relearn from scratch.

The Greyknight Dreadknight looks like a Parents with one of those Baby Harnesses.

I allways felt the Tau took alot of imspration from the Starship troopers mobile infantry (book)

Just read that first chapter, the aliens sounds just like the tau and the mobile infantry sound just like the tau battle suits.

A Roger Dean album cover also looks very close to the edge.


http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?p=70190

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:A Roger Dean album cover also looks very close to the edge.


http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?p=70190

That comparison is pretty fragile. I don't think GW were going for the one on that cover.

lol
Well done htj

Tyranids before Starcraft:


Starcraft:


Tyranids after Starcraft:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Tyranids before Starcraft:


Starcraft:


Tyranids after Starcraft:

Good Job HMBC

Smacks wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Thus, all the core ideas and visualisations were secondhand or borrowings from prior work.

I have white dwarfs from 1985-86 and in those there are art works featuring Space Marines... or at least what ended up being called Space Marines. The same art works appear again years later in the Rogue Trader book. They must have been bouncing those ideas around for quite a few years before they grew into 40k.

My thread was a spoof, really, however the basic point stands. Oodles of GW's claimed IP is based on or takes inspiration from earlier work.

The "beaky" helmet is based on the mediaeval bascinet style of helmet. Today's SM helmet is a mixture of Star Wars stormtrooper and Darth Vader. The whole armour style is similar, actually.

Fact is, of course, that it's impossible to design any remotely realistic rigid armour for the human body without it coming out more or less the same way. The Star Wars armour is clearly similar to mediaeval plate.

To what extent all of this invalidates GW's claims would be a matter for the courts.

Kilkrazy wrote:The "beaky" helmet is based on the mediaeval bascinet style of helmet. Today's SM helmet is a mixture of Star Wars stormtrooper and Darth Vader. The whole armour style is similar, actually.

Similar, but with bigger shoulder pads.

Kilkrazy wrote:I remember Genestealers being introduced in Space Hulk (1989).

They've got an entry in RT, an account of their similarity to creatures discovered on Ymgarl, IIRC.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Not quite
They issued a C&D iirc or at least asked them not to sell the Lammasu.
Raging Heroes assented and pulled the head (oo-er missus)

But otherwise, I agree.
The hypocrisy is staggering. What's that saying?
What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine.

something like that any road.

They issued a C&D, which means, "do what I say in this letter or I'm filing a lawsuit on these grounds." Raging Heroes didn't want to get sued, so they pulled the head option. For most small companies the mere threat of a lawsuit is sufficient to force compliance because they have no way to reasonably afford a defense. So you threaten with something that would be hideously expensive and potentially destructive to the company on a cost basis while proposing a resolution that, while completely unjustified, is merely damaging to the company and not destructive.

You see the same thing with patent trolls. You want to threaten (file) a lawsuit that will cost a huge ton of money with potential damages high enough to threaten the company while offering a settlement that allows the company to continue its existence guaranteed (until you sue them again on another patent).

If the the proffered unreasonable resolution would potentially destroy the company, then the company has little incentive to give in to your unreasonable demands and a great deal of incentive to fight it out in court. Compared to the prospect of a lawsuit, pulling the Lammasu head option was an incredibly easy solution, and therefore an attractive business move. The only reason to have fought it would have been the principle of the thing.

This is why GW doesn't sue or threaten to sue large companies on unreasonable grounds. Those entities have the resources to contest a lawsuit and thus do not have to simply give in to the demands. They have more options.

Bullockist wrote:Myabe i'm wrong but i don't remember genestealers in RT.

They're in the RT book but the head design changed radically for Space Hulk.

rockerbikie wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Tyranids before Starcraft:


Starcraft:


Tyranids after Starcraft:

Good Job HMBC

Hey, Starcraft is a total Ripoff of almost any show/movie ever made, anyway. The ideas and concepts are from 40k, Starship Troopers, Aliens, Diablo, Lord of the Rings and Apocalypse Now. The quotes are from Alien, Apocalypse Now, Arte Johnson, Rowan and Martin’s Laugh-In, Contact, Full Metal Jacket, Independence Day, King of the Hill, The Magic School Bus, RoboCop, The Rock, Platoon, Die Simpsons, Star Trek, Star Wars and Frankenstein Junior.

Kilkrazy wrote:The "beaky" helmet is based on the mediaeval bascinet style of helmet. Today's SM helmet is a mixture of Star Wars stormtrooper and Darth Vader. The whole armour style is similar, actually.

Fact is, of course, that it's impossible to design any remotely realistic rigid armour for the human body without it coming out more or less the same way.

I agree, despite how similar Marines can appear to storm troopers I don't really believe there was much deliberate copying involved. I think the original marines were probably derived much more from the 2000 AD stuff (which was popular at the time) than from Star Wars. Rogue Trader was certainly influenced heavily by 2000AD, with its hive gangs, and dark humour. I recall there was even an illustration of a space marine arresting an 80s style punkrocker for anti-establishment graffiti (in today's 40k he would most likely have just been burned on site for being a heretic). Space Marines seemed to drift closer to storm troopers in style during the 90s, but now they seem to be drifting away again into something more akin to Space Knights.

Can we all just accept that , There is no more sufficiently original Idea in the Sci Fi business?