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Ok, let's start off with paladins against one of the most competitive tournament lists currently right now....Space Wolves Missile-spam!

Before we begin, I'd like to thank SabrX for being my play-testing partner in these games. SabrX is normally a Tau and Witch Hunter player, but to help me out, he also played a variant of my Space Wolves and Tyranids as well. Keep in mind that this is the first time SabrX has played my Space Wolves and only the second time he has played my Tyranids. His main experience with them is in playing against them.

Then again, this is also my 1st time playing a true Draigowing army as well.

Also, there will be some proxying in these games, but I will try to keep it to a minimal. I don't normally run GK terminators/paladins nor do I run Draigo.


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Ard Boyz Practice Game #1 - Draigowing vs Njal Space Wolves


Grey Knights 2500 List #3 - Draigowing (My list)


The terminators with the cyclone missile launchers are my warding stave paladins. The red terminators are the ones with the Brotherhood Banners. Heavy weapon terminators (with assault cannons and heavy flamers) are toting psycannons instead. I used Lysander as Draigo and assault terminators as my master-crafted daemonhammer guys.


Draigo
Librarian - Might of Titan, Sanctuary, Shrouding, Warp Rift

Psyfleman Vendread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo

10x Paladins - 4x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, Banner, Warding Stave, 2x MC-Hammers, 3x Halberds, 3x Swords
10x Paladins - 4x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, Banner, Warding Stave, 2x MC-Hammers, 3x Halberds, 3x Swords
1x Paladin - MC-Hammer
1x Paladin - MC-Hammer
1x Paladin - MC-Hammer

Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo


I decided to modify my original list slightly, dropping 1 soladin for some upgrades including psybolt ammo and master-crafted hammers.



2500 Space Wolves Njal Missile-spam




Njal
Run Priest - Jaws, Stormcaller
Run Priest - Meltabombs, Jaws, Murderous Hurricane

Dreadnought - TL-Lascannon
Dreadnought - TL-Lascannon
3x Wolf Guards - 3x Combi-meltas, 3x Power Fists

5x Grey Hunters - Flamer
5x Grey Hunters - Flamer
5x Grey Hunters - Flamer
7x Grey Hunters - Mark of the Wulfen, Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Rhino (+Wolf Guard)
7x Grey Hunters - Mark of the Wulfen, Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Rhino (+Wolf Guard)
7x Grey Hunters - Mark of the Wulfen, Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Rhino (+Wolf Guard)

Land Speeder Typhoon
Land Speeder Typhoon
Land Speeder Typhoon

6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers, Razorback w/TL-Lascannon
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers, Razorback w/TL-Lascannon
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers, Razorback w/TL-Lascannon


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Scenario #3 - Armies That Go Bump in the Night!

Mission: This mission has a random mission objective. You don't know what it is until the beginning of Turn 3, when you roll for it: 1-2 Kill Points, 3-4 Table Quarters, 5-6 Terrain Features. Kill Points is self-explanatory. In Table Quarters, whoever has the most scoring units in a table quarter takes that quarter. In Terrain Features, you must have a scoring unit within 3" of the terrain to claim it. One thing of note is that there are no contesting here. Both armies may claim the terrain feature.

Massacre = 5 or more KP's than your opponent, hold 3 or more table quarters than your opponent or control 3 or more terrain features than your opponent.
Major victory = 3-4 more KP's than your opponent, hold 2 more table quarters than your opponent or control 2 more terrain features than your opponent.
Minor victory = 1-2 more KP's than your opponent, hold 1 more table quarter than your opponent or control 1 more terrain feature than your opponent.

Deployment: Spearhead

Initiative: Grey Knights


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Deployment:

Draigo makes 2 dreads scoring with Grand Strategy - 1 regular and the vendread.

My deployment:

Paladins combat-squad. I leave my 3 soladins (single paladins) in reserves. They will deepstrike.


Space Wolf deployment. BTW, we played the hills as true-LOS hills and not area terrain. To get up there is a 3" difficult terrain move.


Another perspective of the Space Wolf deployment. 5-man grey hunter units will embark onto the long fang lazorbacks on his Turn 1.

He fails to seize the initiative and we begin.


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Grey Knights 1

Do you hear the sound of death approaching?


Dreads wreck 1 lazorback and shake another one. My paladins stun one of his lascannon dreads with their psycannons.


Another psyfleman dread blows away the cyclone missile launcher on the middle speeder. The paladins that are out of shooting range run.


Space Wolves 1
Njal gets some useless power from his Lord of Tempests special ability.


Space wolves mobilize. The shaken razor acts as a screen and pops smokes.


More SW movement.


I forget to cast Shrouding, but it's his missiles that insta-kill 2 paladins from Draigo's unit (the front squad). Unfortunately for my opponent, that's all his 19 missiles and 2 twin-linked lascannons are able to do.


Grey Knights 2

Draigo casts Psychic Communion to try to delay the soladins from coming in. Even with a -1 on the reserve rolls, 1 soladin comes in here (in the lower-right table quarter) and takes a wound to dangerous terrain.


Another soladin comes in on the lower-left table quarter (my deployment zone).


Doom is getting ever closer! Draigo and librarian joins the back squad.


This time, my dreads wreck 1 rhino and shakes a lazorback. Paladin psycannons explode the screening lazorback. 2 hunters die in the explosion but remain unpinned. I also shoot down 2 long fangs with one of my paladin squads.


Space Wolves 2
Again, Njal gets some useless power from his Lord of Tempests special ability.


Space Wolves take the offensive and move into position to Jaws my paladins. Unfortunately, SabrX makes a mistake here, moving 1 unit of grey hunters into Njal's path (he had intended to jaws Draigo's squad).


Grey hunters put 2 wounds on my paladins with bolters. Luckily, one of their meltas misses and I 5++ the other melta shot. I believe it is the long fangs that shake my vendread.


Other SW shooting put 1W on my 3-man paladin unit and 3 wounds on my large squad, including 1 on Draigo. Surprisingly enough, it was the flamers and bolters that did damage. None of the insta-killing shots - meltas, missiles and lascannons - got through.

He then tried to Jaws my paladins. I corrected him on trying to jaws through his own guys and let him pick another target. Unfortunately for him, all my targets were within range of my dreadnought's Reinforced Aegis (this came as a little bit of a surprise for him). Thus, all 3 of his psykers failed to get off Jaws on LD6 psychic tests.


Grey Knights 3
We roll to see what the mission is and we get Table Quarters. Vendread tries to Fortitude off his shaken result but Njal blocks it!


My last soladin deepstrikes into his deployment zone (the upper-right table quarter).


Doom is impending! Draigo breaks off on his own.


There is no escape.


First of all, I blow up his screening lazorback with a dread. I also wreck one of his dreads.


Then I blow up Njal's ride and kill a few grey hunters from both 8-man squads (all with psycannons). I also put 1W on his rune priest.


One of his grey hunter units would then fail morale and fall back.


Finally, onto assault! Only 1 of my paladins squads are able to assault. The other paladin's target just fell back so they stay out in the open.


I only have 3 guys in range to fight (of which 1 is the banner without a force weapon). I whiff badly, only managing to kill 1 (his rune priest who had to get into base with me). He, in turn, puts 1W on my hammer and we tie combat.


Here, Draigo assaults 1 grey hunter unit and my paladins assault another. I wipe them both out and spread out with my consolidation.


Space Wolves 3
Njal finally gets something useful from his Lord of Tempests special ability - Howling Cyclone. However, all my unengaged units pass Morale and just shrug it off.


Dreadnought comes out to play. 1 rune priest splits off from his squad. Njal takes 1 wound. I'm not quite sure whether it was from dangerous terrain or rolling snake-eyes (1,1) for his psychic test.


Anyways, he Jaws Draigo, who just happened to be out of Reinforced Aegis range. I then roll a '6' for my initiative test and Draigo dies just like that. His other rune priest also tries to Jaws but fails due to Reinforced Aegis.


Remember when I said all my guys passed morale from Howling Cyclone? I lied. The 3-man paladin unit fails and fall back. However, they will automatically regroup next turn.


He insta-kills 2 paladins with 1 lascannon and 1 missile.


Finally, his dread assaults. My warding stave laughs it off but I am unable to hit it in return.


Last but not least, my paladins kill all but 2 grey hunters. They would fall back and I would consolidate 6" towards the hill where his long fangs are.


Grey Knights 4

3-man paladin unit auto-rallies.


Paladins climb the hill to go after his long fangs.


Revenge is ours! I psycannon Njal to death for killing Draigo.


I also psycannon his other rune priest to death (he failed a lot of saves).


Paladins shoot down 3 long fangs. Luckily for me, they stick around.


Without any rune priests left, my soladin casts Holocaust on his 2-hunter unit. It then scatters onto his 8-hunter unit and kills 3! Cool, I can still assault.


Paladins wipe out both squads of long fangs. 1 survives but is sent packing. My paladins then consolidate down the hill. Soladin kills 1 grey hunter and remains locked in combat.


Finally, without Njal or any rune priests around to cancel my psychic powers, I cast them with impunity. After 2 Hammerhands and 1 Might of Titan, I immobilise, stun and also take off the DCCW from his dread. My librarian survives his dread's attack even without a warding stave (that was before I took off his DCCW).


Space Wolves 4

The beginning of the end. His lone long fang continues fleeing and is barely on the board.


Speeders climb on top of the building and try to take out my scoring dreads.


His hunters gang up to try to take out my lone soladin (they've a power fist wolf guard in that unit). He is trying to prevent a massacre.


Both speeders fire 4 missile shots at my scoring dread without cover. They only manage to immobilize him.


Long fangs frag my paladins. I believe they only manage to put 1W on them.


His last speeder can only see my non-scoring dread and fire at it, immobilising it as well.

Lastly, his grey hunters assault my lone soladin....and fails to kill him! My librarian unit also finishes off his dread thanks to Might of Titans and consolidate into both his and my table quarters.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


With that, we ended the game because it had probably already exceeded the time limit and had we continued, I might have tabled him next turn.



I've got the upper-left table quarter (from my perspective) with my immobilised, scoring dread.


I've got the lower-left table quarter (my deployment zone) with my vendread and 3-man paladin unit.


I've also got the lower-right table quarter with 1 soladin hiding in the terrain and out of LOS.


Finally, in the upper-right table quarter (his deployment zone), he's got 2 grey hunter units locked in combat with my soladin (the 3rd unit is falling back and so doesn't count). Meanwhile, I've got 3 paladin units and the soladin there and take that quarter 4-2 as well.


I also got +1 for killing an enemy HQ and +1 because he has no units in my deployment zone for a 22pt Massacre.



Massacre to the Grey Knights!!!

Nice. Way to take it to the wolves. Once you took out those priests it was game over.

That was one of those games where you knew what was going to happen before the game started. The wolves had hardly any AP 2 weaponry. Swap out the missiles for las cannon and actually make the gray hunters useful by giving them 2 melta's or even plasma's and suddenly it is a game, also Njal and a rune priest have to be the 2 worst characters he could have brought against you, yeah they will shut down some of your powers but they will also get shut down in return leaving assault which clearly your HQ's were good at.

This is not going to help you win the next round.

i cant seem to find the sister battle report, has it been posted yet?

nice pictures! I got a bit confused in there a few times with ultramarine termies but nice use of aegis defenses

I thought you can't use Aegis against Jaws as Jaws is following a path without "nominating" or "targeting" any specific units!?

Draigo dying on 6 is classical!

I really like the use of the warding stave in your Paladin squad. I am going to try it out on Wed myself.

I can't believe how many games you have played, I hope you have time for all the battlereports, especially the one against the sisters. The sisters army looks untouchable, there are so many 3+ armor models!!!

canadianone wrote:i cant seem to find the sister battle report, has it been posted yet?

No, not yet. I switched up the reports. The Sisters battle report will be next, and then probably Draigowing vs Tyranids.

sudojoe wrote:hrm... wierdly enough after reading the objectives, dragowing would actually sound better though I don't have enough experience with them myself. Mostly been purifiers build myself though this thread is making me think of picking up some pallies... I always had a soft spot for stormshields.... (all 1 of them w/o crusaders lol)

Anyways, I was state side till I moved to Japan with the hobby. There are several hobby shops around Tokyo (see yellow submarine hobby store)with some good selection of products. There is a very avid modeling community here with tons of paints and terrain builders. There are alot of different models including the classic Gundam/Macross to more interesting builds like insect robots (that I think would fit into a tau army quite well!) Wargaming is a small subsect of the massive amount of minatures fans out here. Japan made mini's are extremely detailed and some of the dioramas are really incredible. (not even mentioning the hentai stuff...)Wierdly enough, I found that citadel minitures are still pretty competitve as you can get pretty creative with what you are doing. Alot of the models here are based on various manga / anime and alot of WW2 and current military / commercial vehicles which I find most people just copy the origional paint schemes exactly including authentic WW2 vehicle camo pattern discussions.... octopus cammo pattern anyone?

Yeah, Japan definitely is home to models, miniatures and manga. How's the gaming community? Can you find people to play against? Do the locals play? I find it interesting to see how widespread the hobby is. There's another fellow gamer on these forums from Shanghai, despite the lack of the BRB and codices in Chinese.

PraetorDave wrote:Nice. Way to take it to the wolves. Once you took out those priests it was game over.

Actually, it was probably over even before then. When all his missiles, lascannons and meltas only managed to kill 2 paladins the previous 2 turns, I knew I could get the massacre as I was inflicting heavy damage in return with my dreadnoughts and psycannons.

IG88 wrote:That was one of those games where you knew what was going to happen before the game started. The wolves had hardly any AP 2 weaponry. Swap out the missiles for las cannon and actually make the gray hunters useful by giving them 2 melta's or even plasma's and suddenly it is a game, also Njal and a rune priest have to be the 2 worst characters he could have brought against you, yeah they will shut down some of your powers but they will also get shut down in return leaving assault which clearly your HQ's were good at.

This is not going to help you win the next round.

My requirement for these practice games is that the list must be a balanced, all-comer's list. After all, in a tournament setting, you never know what you may face. The space wolf list wasn't designed especially to combat the new grey knights or, more specifically, Draigowing. Rather, it is a proven, tournament-worthy list designed to take on all-comers, whether that be mech, horde, foot, land raider-spam, terminator armies, whatever. Long fang missile-spam shooty-MSU space wolves (or variants of it) have time and time again done well at the tournament level.

Rune priest-spam is actually a very good build. They're cheap and have some very good psychic powers. Njal is actually a very good HQ. What he is is a force multiplier that makes the whole army much, much better, both with his Lord of Tempest special rule and his psychic defense (oh, and his psychic powers as well). He is often under-estimated and definitely under-utilized, but Tony Kopach, who won the Nova Open 2 years in a row now using Njal as well as Adepticon, is starting to show people just how effective he can be. While they may have problems getting psychic powers off against my army (and Runes of Warding eldar), they are just plain nasty against the 9 other armies in the 40K universe. Thus, they definitely have a place in an all-comer's SW build.

Also, though I didn't mention it in my report, Njal was shutting down most of my psychic powers when I got into range of his runic weapon. He shut down a lot of hammerhands, 1 fortitude attempt, shrouding and even psychic communion.

Grey Therion wrote:I thought you can't use Aegis against Jaws as Jaws is following a path without "nominating" or "targeting" any specific units!?

Draigo dying on 6 is classical!

I think that depends. If the GK unit is the initial target, then yeah, you get Aegis just like you do against any other psychic power. If the GK unit is a collateral target, that is, the spell first hits another unit and then the GK unit, then no, he wouldn't get to use his Aegis (or the Reinforced Aegis from a nearby dread).

In the case of Draigo, my opponent did not target the other squad first because they were under the protection of Reinforced Aegis. Rather, he was able to directly target Draigo, who had split off from the unit, without the line touching the other squad.

I really like the use of the warding stave in your Paladin squad. I am going to try it out on Wed myself.

Warding staves on paladins are a necessity. Don't leave home without them. Oh, and make the warding stave your sergeant so that he'll get his 2++ against Perils in combat.

I can't believe how many games you have played, I hope you have time for all the battlereports, especially the one against the sisters. The sisters army looks untouchable, there are so many 3+ armor models!!!

Yeah, I'm really tired from all this gaming. Each gaming session (I had 2 sessions, each with 2 games) was about 6-7 hours long! On top of that, I've been working about 50 hours recently. Don't worry, I'll make time for the batreps. I enjoy writing them up.

Not sure if you realized this, but the new Sisters got nerfed, big time. The battle sisters have lost Divine Guidance and the whole army has lost Stubborn books and the ability to get 3++ invuln's (2++ for the canoness). On top of all that, sister models have gone up in price!!!

But SabrX is an experienced Witch Hunter player. Can his skill make up for the nerfing that the sisters received. Well, you'll find out soon enough.

Jaws being in essence a long thin template attack targets the first model it hits specifically, surely? As in the FAQ:

The Rune Priest must have line of
sight to the first model that the power affects – in effect he is treated as the target model

What psychic powers count as psychic shooting
attacks? (p50)
A: Any psychic power with a profile like that of a
ranged weapon (i.e. has a range, strength and AP
value) and any psychic power that specifically states
that it is a psychic shooting attack.

That was one of those games where you knew what was going to happen before the game started

Sort of, yes. Which is one reason why I changed my mind about who would win in my pre-game prediction, though I don't think it was by any means a foregone conclusion. The Whine and Howl marine list is, as jv2 says, a 'classically' good one. But some conventional 'good lists' can break down against GK, especially against paladin lists. The whiners and howlers needed to get good shooting in before the paladins closed. They didn't...

If paladins and a Librarian reach your lines in any numbers at all, you're in big trouble...

I still think Ripley's kiddies will have this Paladin list in the tyranid game though.

I'm looking forward to the bondage-nun report tremendously as I've never played sisters. One of my friends was going to start but changed his mind when he read the new codex. I love the look of that sister's army in the OP though.

Well, this is indeed a nice report,

Against wolves you made a good chance if you silenced fast enough the lascannons, which you did.
The only thing a bit strange was a second priest, I think if you use Njall you have enough with him, but that is not making the biggest difference at all.

But Draigo wing will miserably fail against IG Mech Vets and we are not even talking about Dark Eldar with 20+ s8 ap2 shots...
Alltough i have to add all depends on who gets the first turn and if or not how much models are on the table, think here deepstriking would be the option to go, to get that shooting off.

I actually don't think that was a flexible wolf list, as I play wolves and some of the choices were awful. It also isn't a rounded wolf list anymore, a year ago yes, but now that list NEEDS to have ways to deal with paladins, deathwing, logan wing.... I myself placed first in prelims using loganwing, and low and behold second went to draigowing and third... well deathwing. The current meta has changed and terminators are everywhere. I beet both second and third place armies because of stormbolter saturation and my long fangs that were armed as a full missile, las and finally multi melta team... Why? Because you join logan to the multi meltas and you lend them relentless or attach to las cannons for tankhunter. I built it to take on hoard, mech and terminator lists and it seemed to work... Mainly because the missions are so geared to deathstar army builds.

The second round is no different, spam termintators, walk forward and shoot, assault if needed....

Your mobility is kind of limited with the Draigo Wing, and your open to lascannons. :(

What about dropping one squad down to 5 and the other down to 7, dropping 2 psycannons and a MC hammer. Then getting a storm raven and a land raider crusader to transport them. With the remaining points you could get a 4th Scott (Details here)

That would help against land raiders and other AV 14 vehicles too. Only with the Hammers can you hope to do much damage to a LR, with the meltas on the SR and LR you can pop them and assault the guys inside. The dreads can only glance a AV 14, and it's difficult to penetrate with the psycannon. The Might of Titan will fix, but you have to be close and aren't able to assault the unit inside.

Another great battle report!!!! I am running Draigowing @ 1500 points I know it is not quite the same but it is a wrecking house!!!!!!

J2Y your battle reports are second to none and I look forward to the rest of your reports. As a GK and general 40k player I just want to thank you!! Work would be so boring without your reports to read.

But Draigo wing will miserably fail against IG Mech Vets and we are not even talking about Dark Eldar with 20+ s8 ap2 shots...

Ho, ho, ho. No, no, no.

Nice Job! I still think Purifier Croewe is best, but Draigowing seems to be better than I expected.

There isn't enough Lascannons in standard 2500pts level lists to effectively wipe out Paladins. Only a pre-made list catered to take on Paladins may have a chance.

Dark Eldar may stand a chance if they go first. Alternatively, IG and Eldar can spam volume of Str8 and AP1 or AP2 shots. Unfortunately, there aren't many IG players these days who still field Leman Russ or Basilisk. And the Eldar list I have in mind (30 mechanized Fire Dragons + Eldrad) leaves itself open to horde. Then again, Eldar doesn't have much to counter horde other than the Nightspinner.

Well played jy2. Even had I gone first with Njal powers still in effect, I don't think it would have changed the outcome of this game.

One of these days I'd like to test out the new SoB against your Paladin list. Despite the huge nerfs, they still have an alarming number of melta weapons and having the Exorcists also helps.

Ok.... first off, IF dark eldar are not going first. But either way in dawn of war I think DE are fine going second and nerfing off 10 paladins. Second, battle cannons are not the answer, demo charges are the way to go, and considering Marbo is 65 points, BS5 and can appear inside of you yea I would say paladins look very silly when he kills off half the unit minimum. I'll take that trade every time... 9 obliterators.... yea there's just a dash of insta kill from CSM, Tau, well thats all they do and ork loota spam throws out an average of 90 st7 shots from only three units... No offense but that last game was from an out dated SW list that was poorly used, it's funny how you two keep claiming that missile spam is a competitive list when simply put, the GK dex changed things. In order to field an all comers army you MUST ans I repeat MUST be able to take on multiple terminators, my logan wing runs 40 and would have run over the army you played as well.....

Artemo wrote:

That was one of those games where you knew what was going to happen before the game started

Sort of, yes. Which is one reason why I changed my mind about who would win in my pre-game prediction, though I don't think it was by any means a foregone conclusion. The Whine and Howl marine list is, as jv2 says, a 'classically' good one. But some conventional 'good lists' can break down against GK, especially against paladin lists. The whiners and howlers needed to get good shooting in before the paladins closed. They didn't...

If paladins and a Librarian reach your lines in any numbers at all, you're in big trouble...

I still think Ripley's kiddies will have this Paladin list in the tyranid game though.

I'm looking forward to the bondage-nun report tremendously as I've never played sisters. One of my friends was going to start but changed his mind when he read the new codex. I love the look of that sister's army in the OP though.

Draigowing definitely is a challenge for the Space Wolves, as a massed 2+ army is one of the weaknesses on long fang missile-spam. But in tournaments, it's all about the matchups, just like when my Crowe-purifiers faced the Deathwing army in the Practice match. Long fang-spam is a very real threat. Last time I faced it with my 20-assault terminator Ravenguards, I almost got tabled, but by sheer luck, got a tie when my opponent moved his land speeder flat-out to contest and rolled a'1' for dangerous terrain to wreck itself.

BTW, I may very well face that same opponent - Reecius - and his Bjorn missile-spam wolves at the Ard Boyz Semi-finals. We will be both be going to the same location.

Valek wrote:Well, this is indeed a nice report,

Against wolves you made a good chance if you silenced fast enough the lascannons, which you did.
The only thing a bit strange was a second priest, I think if you use Njall you have enough with him, but that is not making the biggest difference at all.

But Draigo wing will miserably fail against IG Mech Vets and we are not even talking about Dark Eldar with 20+ s8 ap2 shots...
Alltough i have to add all depends on who gets the first turn and if or not how much models are on the table, think here deepstriking would be the option to go, to get that shooting off.

I believe the multiple priests are for multiple Jaws. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear as if my opponent was aware of Reinforced Aegis.

I think Draigowing may have problems with mechguards. Will have to try to set up a game against them one of these days. However, seems like a lot of paladin players are not too concerned with darklance/blaster-spam. Why? Because single-shot lances can be allocated to Driago. Then the other units of paladins will be behind Draigo's unit for the 3+ shrouded cover save.

Unfortunately, there isn't too many DE players here who plays competitive MSU DE that I can test my army out against.

Red Corsair wrote:I actually don't think that was a flexible wolf list, as I play wolves and some of the choices were awful. It also isn't a rounded wolf list anymore, a year ago yes, but now that list NEEDS to have ways to deal with paladins, deathwing, logan wing.... I myself placed first in prelims using loganwing, and low and behold second went to draigowing and third... well deathwing. The current meta has changed and terminators are everywhere. I beet both second and third place armies because of stormbolter saturation and my long fangs that were armed as a full missile, las and finally multi melta team... Why? Because you join logan to the multi meltas and you lend them relentless or attach to las cannons for tankhunter. I built it to take on hoard, mech and terminator lists and it seemed to work... Mainly because the missions are so geared to deathstar army builds.

The second round is no different, spam termintators, walk forward and shoot, assault if needed....

I actually agree with you about the limited flexibility of his list. Long fang-spam plays more as an "earth" army, that is, it is more of a gunline army with limited mobility. Usually, in objectives-based missions, it relies on its land speeders to contest objectives. However, in the Ard Boyz scenarios, there is no contesting, at least not with non-scoring units. Basically, he has to move his grey hunters towards me, and that plays in my favor as I can kill both his transports and infantry very easily. It is a good build against the majority of armies out there, but just like my Crowe-purifier knights, both have problems against terminator armies.

Oh, and congrats on your 1st place finish. Good luck at the Semi's.

invisiblade wrote:Your mobility is kind of limited with the Draigo Wing, and your open to lascannons. :(

That's why sometimes I leave the soladins in reserves to deepstrike onto objectives/table quarters if needed. That's my only solution without resorting to stormravens or shunting dreadknights.

What about dropping one squad down to 5 and the other down to 7, dropping 2 psycannons and a MC hammer. Then getting a storm raven and a land raider crusader to transport them. With the remaining points you could get a 4th Scott (Details here)

I am considering a triple-raven build at a future date (I've already ordered 3 ravens). However, for this list, I want to maximize on the number of paladins. My idea is a footslogging army of impending doom, kind of like deathwing but much more shooty. That is why I decided to leave out the transports and to include the single-model unit paladins. This is the style I like so I probably won't be making any major changes to it, just minor tweaks.

That would help against land raiders and other AV 14 vehicles too. Only with the Hammers can you hope to do much damage to a LR, with the meltas on the SR and LR you can pop them and assault the guys inside. The dreads can only glance a AV 14, and it's difficult to penetrate with the psycannon. The Might of Titan will fix, but you have to be close and aren't able to assault the unit inside.

I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there. I'm really not too concerned at all about land raiders or any unit inside who wants to come out and play with 20 paladins and Draigo.

primalexile wrote:Another great battle report!!!! I am running Draigowing @ 1500 points I know it is not quite the same but it is a wrecking house!!!!!!

J2Y your battle reports are second to none and I look forward to the rest of your reports. As a GK and general 40k player I just want to thank you!! Work would be so boring without your reports to read.

Thanks. Yeah, paladins are better than I initially thought. I can kind of see now why so many of the tournament GK players are winning with paladins.

rivers64 wrote:Nice Job! I still think Purifier Croewe is best, but Draigowing seems to be better than I expected.

It'll be a tough battle. So far, my Crowe-purifiers are 2-0 versus paladins, but I've learned to respect them a lot. My 4-man purifier unit charged 1 single paladin (soladin)...and got wiped out by him! Even the soladins are a real threat.

Who knows, maybe just before the Ard Boyz tournament, you may see my Crowe-purifiers (list #1 or #2) face off against my Draigowing (list #3) to cap off these series of practice matches.

SabrX wrote:There isn't enough Lascannons in standard 2500pts level lists to effectively wipe out Paladins. Only a pre-made list catered to take on Paladins may have a chance.

Dark Eldar may stand a chance if they go first. Alternatively, IG and Eldar can spam volume of Str8 and AP1 or AP2 shots. Unfortunately, there aren't many IG players these days who still field Leman Russ or Basilisk. And the Eldar list I have in mind (30 mechanized Fire Dragons + Eldrad) leaves itself open to horde. Then again, Eldar doesn't have much to counter horde other than the Nightspinner.

Well played jy2. Even had I gone first with Njal powers still in effect, I don't think it would have changed the outcome of this game.

One of these days I'd like to test out the new SoB against your Paladin list. Despite the huge nerfs, they still have an alarming number of melta weapons and having the Exorcists also helps.

Thanks for taking the time to do these battles with me. Maybe sometime in the future, I'll get a chance to go up against your new all-assault marine Blood Angels, 30-fire dragon mechdar list or your new witch hunters again. Your eldar list scares my paladins, especialy with Eldrad throwing doom/guide everywhere and using Mind War on my librarian or warding stave paladins. Or for a finale, you could even play one of my GK armies (my paladins) against my purifiers!

I think Njal would definitely have an effect if he had gone first. Lowering my BS would've meant less of your tanks dying or making the ground difficult terrain would've gave you more time to shoot at my guys. And had Njal survived long enough to cast Chain Lightning - that's D6 S8 insta-killing hits on every paladin unit within 18" of him! That's potentially 30 free missile launcher hits at the end since I had 5 squads in your vicinity. That's no joke! And these are not psychic powers so cannot be dispelled! He is one nasty SoB (no, not sisters of battle) if he had gone first and was able to survive.

Red Corsair wrote:Ok.... first off, IF dark eldar are not going first. But either way in dawn of war I think DE are fine going second and nerfing off 10 paladins. Second, battle cannons are not the answer, demo charges are the way to go, and considering Marbo is 65 points, BS5 and can appear inside of you yea I would say paladins look very silly when he kills off half the unit minimum. I'll take that trade every time... 9 obliterators.... yea there's just a dash of insta kill from CSM, Tau, well thats all they do and ork loota spam throws out an average of 90 st7 shots from only three units... No offense but that last game was from an out dated SW list that was poorly used, it's funny how you two keep claiming that missile spam is a competitive list when simply put, the GK dex changed things. In order to field an all comers army you MUST ans I repeat MUST be able to take on multiple terminators, my logan wing runs 40 and would have run over the army you played as well.....

9 lascannons/railguns may seem like a lot to many, but it really isn't. Let's say they all fire at Draigo's unit. 9 shots, 6 hits, 5 wounds. I allocate 3W on Draigo, who may take 1W. So only 2W goes on my terminators, of which 1.33 will die based only on their 5++.

As for guards, I think they will give Draigowing some problems. Not only do they have Marbo and mechvets, but vendettas and especially manticores will hurt as well. But it won't be an easy battle for them either. Draigowing has some firepower which is often under-estimated. Also, by virtue of advancing and playing aggressively, Draigowing will have an inherent advantage insofar as the Ard Boyz scenarios are concerned. These scenarios just favor the more aggressive army with lots of scoring options.

BTW, hope you don't mind, but my next report has a lot of these:

Looking forward to the next set of batreps. It seems that at 2500pts Draigowing is able to hit hard with the support necessary for a well-balanced list. In the current meta I guess a lot of armies have trouble dealing with multi-wound 2+ save models. Perhaps melta over plasma will be making a comeback. If not I may have to change my lists up, lol.

Red Corsair wrote:Ok.... first off, IF dark eldar are not going first. But either way in dawn of war I think DE are fine going second and nerfing off 10 paladins. Second, battle cannons are not the answer, demo charges are the way to go, and considering Marbo is 65 points, BS5 and can appear inside of you yea I would say paladins look very silly when he kills off half the unit minimum. I'll take that trade every time... 9 obliterators.... yea there's just a dash of insta kill from CSM, Tau, well thats all they do and ork loota spam throws out an average of 90 st7 shots from only three units... No offense but that last game was from an out dated SW list that was poorly used, it's funny how you two keep claiming that missile spam is a competitive list when simply put, the GK dex changed things. In order to field an all comers army you MUST ans I repeat MUST be able to take on multiple terminators, my logan wing runs 40 and would have run over the army you played as well.....

jy2 wrote:9 lascannons/railguns may seem like a lot to many, but it really isn't. Let's say they all fire at Draigo's unit. 9 shots, 6 hits, 5 wounds. I allocate 3W on Draigo, who may take 1W. So only 2W goes on my terminators, of which 1.33 will die based only on their 5++.

As for guards, I think they will give Draigowing some problems. Not only do they have Marbo and mechvets, but vendettas and especially manticores will hurt as well. But it won't be an easy battle for them either. Draigowing has some firepower which is often under-estimated. Also, by virtue of advancing and playing aggressively, Draigowing will have an inherent advantage insofar as the Ard Boyz scenarios are concerned. These scenarios just favor the more aggressive army with lots of scoring options.

How do you allocate three wounds out of five to Draigo, unless you only have one Paladin in the squad? Four or Five lascannon in a dev squad will average 3 or 4 hits, 3 or 4 wounds. 2 wounds and your not in bad shape, 3 or more is problematic.

Krak_kirby wrote:

jy2 wrote:9 lascannons/railguns may seem like a lot to many, but it really isn't. Let's say they all fire at Draigo's unit. 9 shots, 6 hits, 5 wounds. I allocate 3W on Draigo, who may take 1W. So only 2W goes on my terminators, of which 1.33 will die based only on their 5++.

As for guards, I think they will give Draigowing some problems. Not only do they have Marbo and mechvets, but vendettas and especially manticores will hurt as well. But it won't be an easy battle for them either. Draigowing has some firepower which is often under-estimated. Also, by virtue of advancing and playing aggressively, Draigowing will have an inherent advantage insofar as the Ard Boyz scenarios are concerned. These scenarios just favor the more aggressive army with lots of scoring options.

How do you allocate three wounds out of five to Draigo, unless you only have one Paladin in the squad? Four or Five lascannon in a dev squad will average 3 or 4 hits, 3 or 4 wounds. 2 wounds and your not in bad shape, 3 or more is problematic.

I think you'll find he's assigning one LC from each squad shooting to Draigo and assuming 3 groups of 3 Lascannons (3 vendettas or 3 squads of Broadsides for instance).

He is claiming the best chance from one SS in his army. In order to have a chance you need to combat squad which means there are at least 3 other pali squads that you can hit and force to make a moral check every turn... Yea sorry that's not very impressive... Also trying to apply math hammer to the army with the least models in the game is a terrible idea. Using statistics for 'Ard Boyz usually works when you don't total 25 models, if you roll poorly in one turn you may not have a chance to recover and see the mathematical average.

Red Corsair wrote:He is claiming the best chance from one SS in his army. In order to have a chance you need to combat squad which means there are at least 3 other pali squads that you can hit and force to make a moral check every turn... Yea sorry that's not very impressive... Also trying to apply math hammer to the army with the least models in the game is a terrible idea. Using statistics for 'Ard Boyz usually works when you don't total 25 models, if you roll poorly in one turn you may not have a chance to recover and see the mathematical average.

Mathammer alone fails when you don't take into account terrain, TLOS, and tactics. jy2 posted battle reports, detailing turn by turn what would happen when two armies go toe to toe. Also, statistics fails because each pool sample is different in terms of skill, turn out, and competitive environment. It's 25 models with 2 wounds a pop and wound allocation, which is almost like double the number of single wound models. Only certain builds can totally dominate Draigo-wing, many of which are at a disadvantage in all three scenarios due to lack of scoring.

2500 SW lists should run lascannon/ML long fangs and spam more lascannon razorbacks. I'd would even throw in some TWCs and wolfscouts are too good to be not taken.

That SW list does not impressed....

@SabrX- No! mathematics (mathhammer) are based on percentiles for spilling dice which is exactly what he is claiming, by your argument we are to assume that he always has a cover save? Great, then assume the same for guardsmen, and there tanks... That's stupid. LOL how do you mathematically factor in tactics and terrain from a conceptual perspective and remain objective, the most objective approach is to exclude it from the equation. If you are going to start adding variables then you have to alter the equation. Even then it is at best marginally consistent so it should be excluded. Can they form screens? Obviously yes but with small, very small numbered units it is not as hard as you would think to avoid them, especially in spear head deployment.

BTW I am aware of the play by play and it doesn't change the fact that it was a soft SW list in the current meta and no offense but it was clear that this was not your usual army. I know when stats fail and if he is going to tell us that somehow draigo will soak all those shots from multiple combat squad in scenario 2, that's slowed.

Fact is, the only SS in that book is on draigo, and draigo can't be everywhere. The main weakness in that build is there lack of fearless in there squads, as I stated, target the other units with your las canons force moral and laugh when they fail.

Either way good luck jy2, if nothing else I hope these fun debates have helped inspire strategy. Both for you and your opponents I think as time goes on people will see that every list is very beatable/winable.

Before we begin, I'd like to thank SabrX for being my play-testing partner in these games. Though SabrX is a veteran Witch Hunters player, this will be his 1st game with the new Battle Sisters.

Also, I do not have the new Battle Sisters codex with me, so am not real familiar with all their Acts of Faith (though I do know generally what they do). SabrX, feel free to shed some light on which powers you used and when as you read through this report.


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Ard Boyz Practice Game #2 - Purifiers vs Battle Sisters


Grey Knights 2500 List #2 - Purifier-Dreads II (My list)



Crowe

Psyfleman Vendread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Vendread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo

5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Razorback w/Psybolt Ammo + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Razorback w/Psybolt Ammo + Searchlights
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, Rhino w/Dozers
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, Rhino w/Dozers

5x Interceptors - 1x Psycannon, 1x MC-Hammer

Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo



2500 Battle Sisters


Jacobus
Saint Celestine

5x Celestians - 2x Meltaguns, Rhino
5x Celestians - 2x Meltaguns, Rhino
5x Celestians - 2x Meltaguns, Rhino

10x Battle Sisters - Combi-flamer, Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino
10x Battle Sisters - Combi-flamer, Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino
10x Battle Sisters - Combi-flamer, Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino
10x Battle Sisters - Combi-flamer, Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino
10x Battle Sisters - Combi-flamer, Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino
10x Battle Sisters - Combi-flamer, Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino

5x Dominions - 2x Meltaguns, Rhino
5x Dominions - 2x Meltaguns, Rhino
5x Dominions - 2x Meltaguns, Rhino

Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist


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Scenario #1 - I haz a Mezzige!

Mission: Victory Points. You nominate 1 model from you Troops selection. That model may not be a monstrous creature or vehicle and must be a Troop selection. He must start on the board and cannot be deployed via infiltrating, scouting, deepstriking, outflanking or any other specials means (there is an exception for daemons). If your nominated "messenger" model makes it into the enemy deployment zone, then you get +500 VP's.

Massacre = 1126-2500 VP's more than your opponent. Major victory = 751-1125 more VP's. Minor victory = 376-750 VP's more than your opponent.

Deployment: Dawn of War

Initiative: Grey Knights (Again!)


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Deployment:

Map of terrain:


My deployment:

I deploy 1 strike squad both on the 24" line and in area terrain. The striker with the sword raised on top on the die is my messenger.


I also deploy Crowe by himself (but out of LOS) and the striker's empty rhino. Why? Because I want to push him back 18" away from my deployment zone to make it harder for him to get his +500 VP's.


My opponent deploys St. Celestine and 1 squad of battle sisters out of LOS. His messenger is in that rhino.

He fails to seize the initiative and we begin.


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Grey Knights 1

My army comes in from the center of the board. Rhinos move 12" and dreads run. 2 of them make it to the 2nd floor of the ruins. Crowe gets into the empty striker rhino. Warding staves are in the psybolt razorbacks (psybacks).


Rear perspective of my army after running.


Strikers move forwards 1" to claim the bonus +500 VP's (I know, it's so easy if you're going 1st that it's stupid). They then run back 6" into cover. Looks like St. Celestine won't be able to assault them next turn.

Once again, I forget about my interceptors so declare them to be in reserves (they weren't supposed to be, but I forgot to deploy them).


Battle Sisters 1

Exorcists come in from the top-left corner (from my perspective). The rhino with the sister model on top is carrying his messenger.


The rest of his tanks come in. Jacobus is in the black rhino (with the celestians).


This picture is the end of Turn 1/beginning of Turn 2. His front tanks pop smoke and 2 of celestians (in the unpainted rhinos) use their Faith to become fearless (they had nothing else better to do).


Grey Knights 2

Dreads continue to climb ruins. Rhinos move up 12", psybacks 6" and I disembark most of my guys for some good-ole psycannon-luvin.


Interceptors come in and hide behind the ruins.

[IMG]http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/jy2cool/2500%20Ard%20Boyz%20Semis%20Practice%20I/P1020843.jpg[/IMG
On the right, my squads disembark as well.

Let the carnage begin!


Between psydreads and psycannons, I explode 2 rhinos, wreck 1 and stun a 4th transport. 1 celestian and 2 battle sisters die in the explosions.


I also stun another rhino with I believe my strikers' psycannons.


On my right, I stun and weapon destroy his left rhino (battle sisters) and immobilise his right rhino (celestians).

Wow....is that carnage or what!


Battle Sisters 2

His messenger rhino drives through the rhinos and out come the girls (messenger is the unpainted, metal model). The rest of his sisters advance and pop smokes. St. Celestine hides behind a rhino.


On the right, his battle sisters advance to screen out his other 2 tanks.


Messenger squad runs and reaches my deployment zone. They would've been so dead had they not reached it.


Exorcists blow up a rhino. Now I'm not sure if it was the explosion or his shooting, but 2 of my purifiers from my hammer squad die.

That is all that his firepower could muster.


Grey Knights 3

Gonna go get me some sisters! Interceptors go after his messenger squad.


Crowe advances. My other guys reposition themselves.


Last vendread gets on top of the build as well.


Awesome psycannon shooting from my stationary strike squad.


I continue to destroy more tanks, including 1 exorcist. I also blow up Jacobus' rhino and catch a lot of sisters in the explosion. The blue dice indicates how many from each unit was wounded, including 5 from Jacobus' celestians.


About 4-5 die from the explosion. Other shooting stuns 2-3 rhinos, immobilizes 1 rhino, wipe out all the celestians from Jacobus' squad and kill some sisters from the messenger squad.


On the right, I immobilise and weapon destroy the left rhino and shake the right one.


Jacobus fails morale and flees.


Interceptors assault his battle sisters.


I kill 3 but they manage to stick around.


Battle Sisters 3

His unit of 3 celestians get back into the immobilised rhino. Jacobus regroups and goes to hide in the ruins.


Sisters come out to play.


Exorcist moves to get a better shooting angle. Rhino surges forwards.


He fires 3 squads of 2 meltas at double-tap range and an exorcist into Crowe's ride but sadly, isn't able to wreck it. Instead, he just immobilizes and stuns it.


Sister shooting kills 4 strikers.


He also wrecks one of my right rhinos with meltas. Despite hitting my purifiers with 1 flamer and rapid-fire, he only kills 1 of my purifiers.


St. Celestine helps out the messenger's unit. She kills 2 interceptors and I kill 1 battle sister. I pass morale.



To be concluded.....

I have to say your Space Wolves opponent had an extremely confusing list, and I think he played a poor game. Why were the Razorbacks attached to the Long Fangs and not the Grey Hunters that were going to embark in them? (Actually the better question is why didn't every unit have a transport? I'd rather field one less pack of Grey Hunters and one less Land Speeder for a pair of Razorbacks with TL Lascannons) Why did he deploy so close to the line? Why did he risk Njal so early rather than holding him back for Lord of Tempest's to properly ramp up. Njal is not a front line character until late in the game, and Draigo Wing is not an army you want to advance on.....at all. He would have done much better holding everything in the back corner and taking pot shots with Lascannons on either single Paladins, or whichever unit Draigo is NOT attached to, then flexing off to one side or the other as you advanced. Then again, your Rifleman Dreads did a number on his transports.

But then I'm not the one playing and I didn't actually see the game go down, so I really don't know the circumstances so perhaps I shouldn't be so critical. Just seems like some odd tactical choices though, especially going 2nd.

Fact is, the only SS in that book is on draigo, and draigo can't be everywhere

Well, there are those pesky Crusaders with SS in the codex too
(ya I know, not the same thing but I figured to be technically correct)

Grey Knights 4

Overview of the top of Turn 4.


Purifiers on the right advance towards the sisters.


Strikers and Crowe go after battle sisters as well.


Finally, my hammerfiers advance as well. Strikers remain in terrain.


Shooting from the 10-man strikers and purifers wipe out 2 squads of sisters (4 from 1 squad and 5 from another). I believe they were dominions and/or celestians. I also immobilize his rhino and take off the exorcist launcher from one of his exorcists with my dreads. I think I also stun the other exorcist.


My dreads blow up his screening rhino so that my purifiers may now assault the sisters hiding behind it. 1 sister dies, either to the explosion or to my shooting. Another squad loses 1 girl to shooting (I think that was from my psyback). Finally, my stikers in the middle shoot down 2 girls from the unit they are about to assault.


Charge!


More assault.



I wipe out all 4 squads with sweeping advance.


Finally, in the assault between my interceptors and his battle sisters and St. Celestine, I wipe out his battle sisters including his messenger. St. Celestine kills all but 1 knight and we remain locked.


Battle Sisters 4

Overview of the bottom of Turn 4.


Rhinos advance and battle sisters disembark. Jacobus joins one of the battle sisters and gives them FNP.


Celestians (dominions?) on the right go after my 2-man purifier unit. My opponent forgets to use Faith to twin-link his meltas....


.....but still wipe them out anyways.


Sisters here wipe out my 3-man purifier unit.


Battle sisters fire at my strikers and kill off 3. They would pass morale. Celestians in immobilized rhino try to pick off Crowe with 2 meltas. Crowe goes-to-ground in terrain and survives!


Finally, St. Celestine wipes out the last Interceptor and consolidates out of LOS of the majority of my army.


Grey Knights 5
This would be the last game turn as I think we were very close to time, if not already passed it.


Strikers go after St. Celestine. Purifiers go after his battle sisters.


On the right side, 3-man strike squad goes after more battle sisters and purifiers go after celestians/dominions.


Dread wrecks a rhino and purifiers shoot down 1 celestian.


Unfortunately for me, they fail morale and fall back, preventing me from assaulting and wiping them out.


Dreads also explode the immobilised rhino where his celestians were hiding in. Shooting also takes down 5 battle sisters from Jacobus' despite FNP and also 3 sisters from the squad that my strikers are about to assault. They all pass morale.


Strikers insta-gib St. Celestine with a rending psycannon shot.


Purifiers rush Jacobus' unit. I kill 4 but they are stubborn and don't die.


Strikers assault battle sisters, win combat and proceed to sweep them.


Battle Sisters 5

Celestians regroup (they might have used Faith to become fearless, I'm not sure) and get ready to melta my purifiers.


St. Celestine comes back to life with 1W left and goes to help out Jacobus.


Again, celestians go after Crowe. And once again, Crowe goes-to-ground and survives both meltas.


Celestians shoot down 3 purifers, which is enough the give them half VP's for that unit.


St. Celestine charges in and kills 1 purifier (I saved one with my 2++ warding stave). I fail to kill either Jacobus or St. Celestine as he makes both of their invuln's.


With that, we end the game.


Aftermath of the carnage.

He's got about 900 VP's from me and I about 1800 VP's from him, so I've got a Major Victory. I've also got +1 bonus for killing his messenger and +1 for my messenger surviving for a total of 19 points.


Major Victory to the Grey Knights!!!

Thank you for another great battle report!

I think the Paladins would have had some trouble with the Sisters! List#2 however was perfect against them: you had longer range with your shooting and better close combat capability. Furthermore, since there was nothing over armor 13 dropping the assassin worked out well. With all the shooting and lack of invulnerable save the sisters were completely shut down!

I wonder why your opponent didn't use Repentia and squads of rending heavy bolters though and the small squads of 5 seemed awfully ineffective this game. As to where the fewer psycannons in a Paladin list would struggle with the Rhinos your mass psycannons made a mockery of the Ecclesiarchy's armor (Go Malleus)!

Lukus83 wrote:Looking forward to the next set of batreps. It seems that at 2500pts Draigowing is able to hit hard with the support necessary for a well-balanced list. In the current meta I guess a lot of armies have trouble dealing with multi-wound 2+ save models. Perhaps melta over plasma will be making a comeback. If not I may have to change my lists up, lol.

Yeah, I think you need about 2K to run a proper Draigowing. At higher points, it really blossoms as you can fit in more stuff to balance out the army.

Krak_kirby wrote:
How do you allocate three wounds out of five to Draigo, unless you only have one Paladin in the squad? Four or Five lascannon in a dev squad will average 3 or 4 hits, 3 or 4 wounds. 2 wounds and your not in bad shape, 3 or more is problematic.

Because they're from 3 different sources. 3x3 oblits or broadsides fire. 1st squad hits, allocate 1W to Draigo. Then next squad fires, allocate another 1W to Draigo. Finally, the last unit shoots. Allocate a 3rd wound to Draigo.

pretre wrote:
I think you'll find he's assigning one LC from each squad shooting to Draigo and assuming 3 groups of 3 Lascannons (3 vendettas or 3 squads of Broadsides for instance).

Exactly.