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Or just giving regular Whirlies access to flakk missiles.

You have got to be kidding. ... I stopped reading as soon as it said I would need two books to play certain lists.

NM, apparently you were talking about price.

How do we even know it's a 'sublist codex' and not, say, essentially a campaign sourcebook, with a bunch of scenarios, fluff, a few tweaked/unique units that are fluffy but not make or break? Folk pay ludicrous amounts for sourcebooks for RPGs etc. all the time.

 pretre wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
You have got to be kidding. ... I stopped reading as soon as it said I would need two books to play certain lists.

Weren't around in 3rd edition?

Aye, but then it was €25 for a codex and €17,50 for the supplemental one.

With the prices now however, off.

 pretre wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
You have got to be kidding. ... I stopped reading as soon as it said I would need two books to play certain lists.

Weren't around in 3rd edition?

Codexes didn't cost $50 back then. And actually as mentioned you would need 3 books. Dont forget the 80 dollar rule book.

edit: Well, apparently that was what SickSix meant, even though he didn't originally post it. Fair enough then, I will retract. I'm not going to get into the silly price arguments since we have multiple threads on that and it is kind of off-topic here.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
How do we even know it's a 'sublist codex' and not, say, essentially a campaign sourcebook, with a bunch of scenarios, fluff, a few tweaked/unique units that are fluffy but not make or break? Folk pay ludicrous amounts for sourcebooks for RPGs etc. all the time.

Do RPGs require a $300+ investment in models to use those books as well?

 SickSix wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
How do we even know it's a 'sublist codex' and not, say, essentially a campaign sourcebook, with a bunch of scenarios, fluff, a few tweaked/unique units that are fluffy but not make or break? Folk pay ludicrous amounts for sourcebooks for RPGs etc. all the time.

Do RPGs require a $300+ investment in models to use those books as well?

It does if you use play mats and figures to represent placement.

Yeah no. I don't see them releasing sub-list books. The rumour report rings as wishlisting (integration with FW? No...).

 DeffDred wrote:

 SickSix wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
How do we even know it's a 'sublist codex' and not, say, essentially a campaign sourcebook, with a bunch of scenarios, fluff, a few tweaked/unique units that are fluffy but not make or break? Folk pay ludicrous amounts for sourcebooks for RPGs etc. all the time.

Do RPGs require a $300+ investment in models to use those books as well?

It does if you use play mats and figures to represent placement.

Real Rpgs don't use minis. Its in your head. If you are using minis its a fething board game. Or an extremely detailed skirmish.

Back in my day, anyway

 HisDivineShadow wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

 SickSix wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
How do we even know it's a 'sublist codex' and not, say, essentially a campaign sourcebook, with a bunch of scenarios, fluff, a few tweaked/unique units that are fluffy but not make or break? Folk pay ludicrous amounts for sourcebooks for RPGs etc. all the time.

Do RPGs require a $300+ investment in models to use those books as well?

It does if you use play mats and figures to represent placement.

Real Rpgs don't use minis. Its in your head. If you are using minis its a fething board game. Or an extremely detailed skirmish.

Back in my day, anyway

When you have children and older players playing together it's easier to explain to them "okay you are... here. the goblins are here."

Rather than, "Okay Jimmy you're 7 and a half meters from the goblin that just walked through the door to the left of the statue with the crystal on top of it."

Without any physical representation RPGs are basically playing pretend. You'd be better off running around in the backyard making sound effects.

A basic marine codex followed by chapter-specific add-ons would make more sense if GW hadn't just given us a shiny DA standalone codex. Sure, If GW ever decide to go this route, then there'll be a many-year period when some chapters used the basic marine codex and some didn't, but right now seems an odd time to do so.

Just maybe I can see it being done for obscure chapters only, on the grounds that they don't justify the cost of a standalone codex.

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
Real Rpgs don't use minis. Its in your head. If you are using minis its a fething board game. Or an extremely detailed skirmish.

That's a load of nonsense, but in any case you're still partially right. No RPG requires hundreds of dollars of minis, except if done by choice.

 DeffDred wrote:

 HisDivineShadow wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

 SickSix wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
How do we even know it's a 'sublist codex' and not, say, essentially a campaign sourcebook, with a bunch of scenarios, fluff, a few tweaked/unique units that are fluffy but not make or break? Folk pay ludicrous amounts for sourcebooks for RPGs etc. all the time.

Do RPGs require a $300+ investment in models to use those books as well?

It does if you use play mats and figures to represent placement.

Real Rpgs don't use minis. Its in your head. If you are using minis its a fething board game. Or an extremely detailed skirmish.

Back in my day, anyway

When you have children and older players playing together it's easier to explain to them "okay you are... here. the goblins are here."

Rather than, "Okay Jimmy you're 7 and a half meters from the goblin that just walked through the door to the left of the statue with the crystal on top of it."

Without any physical representation RPGs are basically playing pretend. You'd be better off running around in the backyard making sound effects.

Yeah, shocking that modern RPG players be required to use math to envision any kind of circumstances. I used to love charting movement just by doing the math. We stopped using minis in my Dark Heresy group... but for an entirely different reason. One of the players' so min-maxed, no one ever gets even a chance at touching us.

Back on-topic. It does indeed sound like wishlisting. Not that I'm saying GW cares, but including a limited access product like FW into 40K books would most probably create a greater cleavage between the haves and have-nots of our community. Or again, I'm extrapolating too much and it won't change much.

But campaign books, if they're not ridiculously limited edition like the last one was, I wouldn't mind seeing that. It would be... cinematic?

I think the Marine codex will be similar to the 4th ed codex, where you can sorta "build your own chapter".
Supplemental books are a good idea, just cuz they are out doesnt mean you have to use them.

Rumour has it Chapter Tactics will be bundled deals and will be purchasable via points. No mix and match customization from what I hear. Each Chapter Tactic seems to get bundled with 1-2 generic USRs or unique special rules based on a pre-defined chapter (Imperial Fists supposedly get Tank Hunters alongside a new version of Bolter Drill, for example).

EDIT: As for separate add-ons, GW is only just testing the water with Eldar. Even if we're lucky the add-on released with Space Marines will probably be Black Templars.

I'm taking this with a lot of salt. It sounds more like a wishlist than a reliable rumour.

 Marik Law wrote:
Rumour has it Chapter Tactics will be bundled deals and will be purchasable via points. No mix and match customization from what I hear. Each Chapter Tactic seems to get bundled with 1-2 generic USRs or unique special rules based on a pre-defined chapter (Imperial Fists supposedly get Tank Hunters alongside a new version of Bolter Drill, for example).

EDIT: As for separate add-ons, GW is only just testing the water with Eldar. Even if we're lucky the add-on released with Space Marines will probably be Black Templars.

When you say 'rumour has it...', is this a rumour you just started? If not, can you give us a lionk to this other rumour please.

UltraPrime wrote:

 Marik Law wrote:
Rumour has it Chapter Tactics will be bundled deals and will be purchasable via points. No mix and match customization from what I hear. Each Chapter Tactic seems to get bundled with 1-2 generic USRs or unique special rules based on a pre-defined chapter (Imperial Fists supposedly get Tank Hunters alongside a new version of Bolter Drill, for example).

EDIT: As for separate add-ons, GW is only just testing the water with Eldar. Even if we're lucky the add-on released with Space Marines will probably be Black Templars.

When you say 'rumour has it...', is this a rumour you just started? If not, can you give us a lionk to this other rumour please.

No, I did not just start it. Was stated by 75Hastings69.

75Hastings69 wrote:Not being into 40k I don't know what the "traits system" is, however here's what I've heard for the SM codex, you choose a chapter and that choice confers a bonus/bonuses to your army e.g. My imperial fists get tank hunter and bolter drill. Is that similar to what you mean?

Link: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?368114-Hastings-40k-rumours

 pretre wrote:
Frontline hasn't really posted a lot of rumors in the past. The ones it did were both false (FW in GW Stores and FW in normal 40k.)

This one is very salty.

Haha, we've posted more rumors than that

We called Adeptus Mechanicus before FW released it, we also called a lot of other stuff, and FW was sold in GW stores, but hey, who's counting?

This source has proven to be quite reliable.

I said this is what they would do in my comments in the Eldar thread yesterday.

They will only stop when folks refuse to buy - obviously this has not occurred.

For those surprised this would occur: bezinga.

 Reecius wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Frontline hasn't really posted a lot of rumors in the past. The ones it did were both false (FW in GW Stores and FW in normal 40k.)

This one is very salty.

Haha, we've posted more rumors than that

We called Adeptus Mechanicus before FW released it, we also called a lot of other stuff, and FW was sold in GW stores, but hey, who's counting?

This source has proven to be quite reliable.

Links and ill give you credit.

Anyone else find it oddly suspicious that this Codex: Space Marine + supplements rumor didn't pop up until the out-of-nowhere Iyanden supplement was revealed?

 Absolutionis wrote:
Anyone else find it oddly suspicious that this Codex: Space Marine + supplements rumor didn't pop up until the out-of-nowhere Iyanden supplement was revealed?

I was thinking that too. It just sounds like someone's had a good idea of what GW will do and then decided to tell everyone that this will totally happen. Guyz I am totally serious, it's gunna happen, Tom Kirby told me himself over dinner with Marneus Calgar last night in Atlantis.

 Absolutionis wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Individual books to cater to each chapters unique aspects? I love you GW.
Have to buy both to play that one chapter? I dislike you GW.

That's the way it originally was. You had to buy Codex: Space Marines for the base rules and then Codex: Green Marines for the modified Green Marines rules that constantly referenced the base codex. It's only recently that GW decided to release standalone codecies for Space Marines that happen to be painted Green, Silver, Red, or Black.

Then again, codecies also didn't cost $50 back then. It's disappointing that people that painted their Space Marines black will have to shell out $100 for two books in order to play their color variant.

Well, not originally. 2nd Edition had full codices for Ultramarines (which was the default SM codex), Space Wolves and Angels of Death (Blood and Dark). 3rd Edition went to Codex Space marines with thin, cheap mini-codices that added on the extra rules. Staple-bound, about 32 pages each. Barely any fluff, and mostly just the army lists. Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Assassins (thinner, but free in a WD!), Craftworld Eldar, Armageddon. There might be a couple of others, but I can't find them in my bookshelf, nor think of what they might be.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Individual books to cater to each chapters unique aspects? I love you GW.
Have to buy both to play that one chapter? I dislike you GW.

That's the way it originally was. You had to buy Codex: Space Marines for the base rules and then Codex: Green Marines for the modified Green Marines rules that constantly referenced the base codex. It's only recently that GW decided to release standalone codecies for Space Marines that happen to be painted Green, Silver, Red, or Black.

Then again, codecies also didn't cost $50 back then. It's disappointing that people that painted their Space Marines black will have to shell out $100 for two books in order to play their color variant.

Well, not originally. 2nd Edition had full codices for Ultramarines (which was the default SM codex), Space Wolves and Angels of Death (Blood and Dark). 3rd Edition went to Codex Space marines with thin, cheap mini-codices that added on the extra rules. Staple-bound, about 32 pages each. Barely any fluff, and mostly just the army lists. Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Assassins (thinner, but free in a WD!), Craftworld Eldar, Armageddon. There might be a couple of others, but I can't find them in my bookshelf, nor think of what they might be.

The first Chaos Space Marines book (well first book after they split up CSM and Daemons/Cults) was one as well. I have it here, cover has fallen off and its so thin in terms of actual content.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Individual books to cater to each chapters unique aspects? I love you GW.
Have to buy both to play that one chapter? I dislike you GW.

That's the way it originally was. You had to buy Codex: Space Marines for the base rules and then Codex: Green Marines for the modified Green Marines rules that constantly referenced the base codex. It's only recently that GW decided to release standalone codecies for Space Marines that happen to be painted Green, Silver, Red, or Black.

Then again, codecies also didn't cost $50 back then. It's disappointing that people that painted their Space Marines black will have to shell out $100 for two books in order to play their color variant.

Well, not originally. 2nd Edition had full codices for Ultramarines (which was the default SM codex), Space Wolves and Angels of Death (Blood and Dark). 3rd Edition went to Codex Space marines with thin, cheap mini-codices that added on the extra rules. Staple-bound, about 32 pages each. Barely any fluff, and mostly just the army lists. Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Assassins (thinner, but free in a WD!), Craftworld Eldar, Armageddon. There might be a couple of others, but I can't find them in my bookshelf, nor think of what they might be.

Add catachans.

Anyway, has anyone confirmed that the Eldar supplement has rules for units or fortifications or any rules besides special scenario rules? I remain skeptical that there are rules for characters or units in the supplement.

Yep and yep. I've got both of those. Somewhere. Damn, now it's going to piss me off till I find them!

Well if the Eldar codex and sublist codex sell well, i find this very plausible.

the more you know!