Opinions of the Ork Codex

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**lord_blackfang**

Orktavius wrote:
GW can't win with layout. I have seen so many threads of people complaining about how crap the old layout was because the rules/fluff were listed in one place and the points another. Now GW has gone "Okay...well then how about we put everything on one page like you want" and now they get crap for that. There's no layout that's going to please everyone though I'm sure someone has already/will post how someone else has done it better.

Personally I liked the old layout and blame the jerks who complained about it for the change far more then I blame GW for it.

Mea culpa.

I admit that I complained about the old layout and now I see I was wrong

Before: page flipping to 3 places if you wanted to find out everything about a single unit (unit rules, wargear rules, point cost) but a concise army list section for list building

Now: page flipping to 2 places if you wanted to find out everything about a single unit (unit rules + point cost, wargear rules) plus flipping back and forth forever when writing an army list

**ClockworkZion**

For those without the codex I did my best to cover it ALL: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/06/new-release-codex-orks.html

I'm sorry for not copying and pasting it here but the formatting required to do that would take me all night to do (and it already took me all day to type that all).

**Yonan**

The new layout being bad doesn't somehow validate the old one. It's possible to *not* have a bad layout... it's always amusing to find out that GW can make things even worse, no matter how bad they are haha.

**Sasori**

ClockworkZion wrote:
For those without the codex I did my best to cover it ALL: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/06/new-release-codex-orks.html

I'm sorry for not copying and pasting it here but the formatting required to do that would take me all night to do (and it already took me all day to type that all).

I really enjoy your initial reviews. Thanks for that.

**teban**

Embrace the change :3

**Ond Angel**

krodarklorr wrote:Hey guys, I'm just gonna express my feelings towards the new Ork Codex. I don't play Orks, but my friend just got the codex and we read through it and everything. They got a lot of cool stuff, rules tweaks, much needed things, but the codex is SO bland. I hate the layout of the 7th Edition codex. They have Model pictures instead of nicely drawn, fluffy pictures for the unit descriptions. They include Lords of War, which I know are technically part of the game and it makes it easier to be in the book, but a lot of people don't like fighting Lords of War, but now people can use the excuse of "It's in the codex, I'm free to use it all the time, suck it up." Also, the Orks were one of the most unique armies in my opinion. Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone. My friend said that they're trying to make all the codexes more like Textbooks. Here's your rules, read them, buy models, play. No story, just bland. Me and him both feel like GW's caring level keeps going down. At this point, I'm not even excited about the Necron Codex when it comes out, since it will probably be set up the same way. I'm not planning on quitting 40k, but I'm probably just gonna focus more on Fantasy, or even something not GW related at all, like Warmachine, since everyone's going that way anyway.

What do you guys think of the codex? Yeah, I know I don't play Orks, but it still pains me to see this codex.

To be fair, even without Lords of War in the Ork codex, you could have taken a LoW anyway. LoW is part of the Rulebook's standard FoC. As always; you have the right to say no to a game for whatever reason. (I refuse to play against a LoW against *some* players in my store because I know they've written a nasty, cheesy list.)

On topic: I dislike the new layout, I preferred the last one's layout.
I hate the change to Cybork Body.
Grotsnik is kinda better/kinda worse. He lost his cyborking, but otherwise he's better.
Disappointed at the Meganobz cost.
Disappointed with Nobz too. They went down by a few points, but their bikes went up by the same amount....

Dragonzord wrote:
WarOne wrote:
Dragonzord wrote:
Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

Necrons maybe. But Orks no.

imagine 180+ boyz with FNP... god that would be the most broken thing ever.

a) It wouldn't really be broken.
b) This is actually very very doable...

**Vasarto**

If they could mess up the Ork Codex this bad. I just cannot wait for them to Mess up my second largest army ( my space wolves ).

I feel obligated to expand on Tau ( army I have tiny amount of but don't care about ), Just because I don't want to play with a completely useless army and loose 90% of the time.

I will still try and mod my ork army into a Freebooter / bad moons type army. That is the only viable build anymore.

**BadMoonMek**

My opinion on the new codex is... meh. After the Armageddon codex (supplement) the Ork codices have been downhill IMHO. (Well, Kans are cool.) Nothing really excites me about the new units, and the rule changes seem to be changes for the sake of change, not to make the game more playable or fun. That's how it reads, anyway. Maybe it plays differently. But I remember when the Kult of Speed list came out I was really excited to buy, model and paint a bunch of trucks and buggies! With this codex... I've still got lots of models left to paint, so I don't need/want anything new. But hey, at least my Big Mek in Mega Armor with a KFF is legal again!

**BoomWolf**

For the love of god give it a freaking WEEK before you cry that its the "worst thing evaaaa"
They said the same about eldar ffs, look at them now.

Not saying ork codex will be top tier OPness, but heck it just MIGHT turn out to be alright?

**Melevolence**

Goresaw wrote:
I see a book of nothing but problems. No solutions.

How do I build a list to deal with massed IG tanks/wyverns?
How do I build a list to deal with centurion stars?
How do I build a list to fight wave serpents?
How do I build a list to stop massed missilesides?
How do I build a list to fight invisible spawn tide?
How do I build a list to compete with beastar?
How do I build a list to hurt dronestar/daemon flying circus?

I don't see anything but weaknesses.

Massed orks are more vulnerable than ever in a game where thunderfire cannons/wyverns are the weapons of choice for dealing with hordes.

Battlewagons got more expensive for something that was already far easier to kill than armor 14 would suggest (open topped armor 12 side vehicles who have massive side profiles).

Moral is now a bigger problem than ever before. Even kanz are going to run away. Things that 90% of the other armies laugh are HUGE problems for us. Pinning, fear, etc.

Big gunz are the biggest culprit. Toughness 7 is strong, but not invincible. Kill a few grots and they will see themselves off the table. At least they are cheap.

Which leads to the problem of heavy support bloat. If the community widely accepts multiple force org.... well good, I guess (although it helps other armies with far more effective choices than more than our army). If multiple force org is rejected by the community.... heaven help us.

At the end of the day, the ork codex has nothing that turns an 'okay' or 'great' unit into THE REAL ULTIMATE POWER like the other books have. Orks have nothing to 'smooth' the dice out or to turn things from a mathematical probability to a mathematical certainty. We don't have army wide rerolls. And sadly, since 6th ed... its really the only way to do business.

Its first vs third world here. Have's and have not's. You either have all the rerolls, or you don't. And the power gulf will only widen with time (as more and more imperial armies get 'updated' and can battlebrother each other).

This is the issue. Army wide rerolls should not be the standard. Us getting an army wide 5+ FNP or even a 6+ FNP wouldn't do much to solve our problems anyway. And it would have only caused EVERYTHING to go up in price points wise. You can bet your bottom dollar on that. I don't feel like spending 10 points or more per Boy BEFORE upgrades.

Maybe I'm the only one who hasn't had an issue with this so far. Just play the game, and stop complaining so hard. It sucks some things changed. Things will ALWAYS change. Whimpering like a grot online isn't going to make the book any better or worse. If supplements are the way they start going to buff armies, so be it. I'm buying the Ghaz sup because I want to use the amazing formations I've been hearing about to give a boon to my play styles.

It really was a bit much to expect us to be on par with the other races. I doubt Orks ever will be, and we have to get over it. Marines/Eldar/Tau we are not. We da Orks! And we krump! Win or lose.

**Dragonzord**

It really does seem that the formations in the ghazz book will become the norm because of how awesome they are. Which I have zero problem with at all. The more content the better.

**Ugavine**

Mixed views on the new Codex.

- Loss of Invuns for Nobz
- Nobz cannot be Troops
- loss of Dust Cloud on Bikes
- No Zogswort
- Mek tools got nerfed

+/- KFF. Unecided on the change yet.

+ some point drops
+ formations are solid
+ decent Warlord traits
+ WAAAGH! is back to run & charge.
+ Unit size increase for Buggy's & Kanz.

Biggest gripe has already been mentioned. Layout is terrible. I couldn't even work out what unit went in what slot at first until I noticed the icons.

**Anvildude**

AHAHAHAHA!!! Finally, Ghazzy is given his due.

He's not an HQ. He's right up there in the 'Force of Nature" category with Stompas.

**The Shadow**

Yeah, I'm really not that bothered about the Ork Codex. It seems that Orks, CSM, DA and Nids are the standard of Codex we should be expecting and, compared to them, the Ork Codex is not bad at all. Eldar and Tau are just the overpowered exceptions to the rule.

The best thing about the Ork Codex is that it's balanced, as they've brought almost everything in line. Flash Gitz, Tankbustas, Stormboyz and the like are all viable now, where they weren't before whereas the go-to choices, such as Nob Bikers, are still viable but not so much of an auto-include as they once were. The new formations are also an interesting addition.

The only thing that annoys me is the restrictions on a lot of the wargear. Only one Gift of Gork (or possibly Mork for example). I guess that is understandable, but a B;itzbike Boss with the Finking Cap and Lucky Stikk would be awesome. Only one orky know-wot is very annoying though, and less understandable. How come my Warboss can't have a bike and a bosspole?

**lord_blackfang**

The Shadow wrote:
The only thing that annoys me is the restrictions on a lot of the wargear. Only one Gift of Gork (or possibly Mork for example). I guess that is understandable, but a B;itzbike Boss with the Finking Cap and Lucky Stikk would be awesome. Only one orky know-wot is very annoying though, and less understandable. How come my Warboss can't have a bike and a bosspole?

I think you need to read those bits again.

"One of each" means one of each, not a total of one.

**happygolucky**

Personally my opinion of the codex has to come in a set of bullet points:

-Layout feels catalogue-esque.. As in I feel in terms of the layout, I payed money for what looks like a WD..

-It feels as if there should have been more to it.. Like stuff such as making Zagstruck a HQ and Badrukk as well, they could have added FoC swaps such as Stormboys and Flash Gitz as troops for example, it feels as if it it could have been more bolder imo, I mean stuff like the tellyporta Nobz/MANZ and Telepotra rumours sounded very bold but not OTT, if anyone cathes my drift? the most experimental Ive seen out of the book is the Big Gunz if I'm honest and that's kinda it, most of everything else was a rehash of the old codex, just cleaned up for 7th imo, in turn it makes the codex feel bland tbh..

**Redbeard**

Orktavius wrote:GW can't win with layout.

I'd be happy if they could simply complete a cycle of codexes all with the same layout. I don't think this one is any better or worse than the last, it just smacks of someone coming up with change to justify their job.

As for the codex contents, as a long-time ork player, I'm disappointed. I played my first game yesterday, with a healthy number of boyz on the table, including some of the new buffed cheaper types (stormboyz), and was tabled pretty easily. It felt like I was fighting up-hill the whole way and never really had any sort of control over the game. I don't think that what few buffs were handed out nearly make up for what was lost, and the codex will still struggle when built as an assault army.

But more games might find something.

**happygolucky**

Redbeard wrote:

But more games might find something.

Best way tbh, I played my first game with a Stompa which I won however I felt as if I struggled during the end of the game though, and that was with Orks against Tyranids..

Like I say more games and I'm sure us Ork players will find something to crack over the head with

**Makumba**

Why can't GW just make codex with just army rules or even post them online and if someone wants to read fluff he buy a book for it. Then they wouldn't have problems with people disliking the layout and we wouldn't have to pay for books which half is no use to gaming.

**Orock**

Redbeard wrote:
Orktavius wrote:GW can't win with layout.

I'd be happy if they could simply complete a cycle of codexes all with the same layout. I don't think this one is any better or worse than the last, it just smacks of someone coming up with change to justify their job.

As for the codex contents, as a long-time ork player, I'm disappointed. I played my first game yesterday, with a healthy number of boyz on the table, including some of the new buffed cheaper types (stormboyz), and was tabled pretty easily. It felt like I was fighting up-hill the whole way and never really had any sort of control over the game. I don't think that what few buffs were handed out nearly make up for what was lost, and the codex will still struggle when built as an assault army.

But more games might find something.

no you are pretty much on the money. Played 4 games so far, and mob rule is absolutely crippling, my kans while being 6 cant scratch a land raider if needed, everything just feels more garbagey. But hey, at least we can get more of it! Buy those models kiddies. Oh and having my warboss crushed by a powerfist with no chance of invun and feel no pain being ignored was fun too.

**happygolucky**

Makumba wrote:
Why can't GW just make codex with just army rules or even post them online and if someone wants to read fluff he buy a book for it. Then they wouldn't have problems with people disliking the layout and we wouldn't have to pay for books which half is no use to gaming.

GW giving stuff away fro free?

**PipeAlley**

I play Bikes so this codex isn't that bad, still hoping for a Bike Kult of Speed Supplement ala Codex Armagedeon (aka the good old days). This codex relies on multi-FOC to be playable. It is truly the first 7th edition codex.

Also:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/602713.page#6977763

**Rautakanki**

It looks like cheap crap so in that regard it's a rip-off. The rules got more bland, but stronger. The combination of new edition and new orks mean a lot stronger orks now which pleases me.

It's a huge disappointment but I can live with it.

**Yonan**

That's similar to my impression of the IG 'dex. One of the better ones lately (still not as well done as it should have been) but whilst it's better balanced it just seems more bland. Ripping out all the characters really doesn't help in that regard I guess!

**Grimtuff**

Dragonzord wrote:
scimitar wrote:
Dragonzord wrote:
WarOne wrote:
Dragonzord wrote:
Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

Necrons maybe. But Orks no.

imagine 180+ boyz with FNP... god that would be the most broken thing ever.

Its not broken at all. Iron hands marines get 6+ FNP as a chapter tactic without being even close to OP.

Do iron hands get 6 point models in large numbers?

Are Iron Hands normal saves ignored by the vast majority of weapons in the game?

See, I can do this too.

**nosferatu1001**

Makumba wrote:
Why can't GW just make codex with just army rules or even post them online and if someone wants to read fluff he buy a book for it. Then they wouldn't have problems with people disliking the layout and we wouldn't have to pay for books which half is no use to gaming.

Because, as GW have repeatedly said, it isn't just about playing the game, it's the background and building / painting models as well. All three together.
Stormboyz are crazy cheap now.

**The Shadow**

lord_blackfang wrote:
The Shadow wrote:
The only thing that annoys me is the restrictions on a lot of the wargear. Only one Gift of Gork (or possibly Mork for example). I guess that is understandable, but a B;itzbike Boss with the Finking Cap and Lucky Stikk would be awesome. Only one orky know-wot is very annoying though, and less understandable. How come my Warboss can't have a bike and a bosspole?

I think you need to read those bits again.

"One of each" means one of each, not a total of one.

Ah, missed the "each", thanks for pointing that out!

Still want my Kap and Stikk though....

**RedNoak**

Dragonzord wrote:
krodarklorr wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
krodarklorr wrote:
Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone.

I want you to post an example.

I don't have the codex in front of me at the moment, but one for sure is the Shokk Attack Gun. It's just a weapon profile with some rules. It used to have a vivid description, and a more devastating effect if you rolled bad, which sucked, sure. But that was the reason my friend always used it, just because of what could happen. No it's just "The model is removed as a casualty."

Also, the Trukk. No more ramshackle chart? That was fun to watch. Now it's replaced by a simple, and somewhat useless rule.

Yeah, they added the Mob Rule chart, which is pretty cool I guess. But when in Fluff does a green tide of orks ever fail leadership? The old rule made a lot more sense.

uhh.. the shokk attack gun has randomness. Have you even read the codex? Its the same as it was before.

the SAG fluff has gone.

- zagstruks fluff based swoop is gone.
- snikrot no longer can assault and lost the fear thingy
- ghazskull has ONE special rule. no unique equipment or trait.
- troop choices for nobz/bikes had been fluffed away
- looted wagons? since when do ork capture and loot enemy vehicles?
- orks surviving the deadliest wounds, run into enemy fire with a breathful of waaagh! as long as there're lots of ladz with em?
- used to have an entire page full of fluff for each unit, now its a couple of rows...

so yeah. they have a fluff section. and then there are the game rules and the units. one thing has nothin to do with the other. great uh?!

lord_blackfang wrote:

Before: page flipping to 3 places if you wanted to find out everything about a single unit (unit rules, wargear rules, point cost) but a concise army list section for list building

Now: page flipping to 2 places if you wanted to find out everything about a single unit (unit rules + point cost, wargear rules) plus flipping back and forth forever when writing an army list

pretty much this.
waagh! rules are in the warboss entry. ere we go in the appendix.
weirboy table under appendix. but warpcharge generation under weirdboy again.

when writing armylists you used to have a easily and accessible summary in the last 7 pages, now you have to flip (A HARDCOVERBOOK!) forth and back... not a great improvment.

EDIT:

The Shadow wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
The only thing that annoys me is the restrictions on a lot of the wargear. Only one Gift of Gork (or possibly Mork for example). I guess that is understandable, but a B;itzbike Boss with the Finking Cap and Lucky Stikk would be awesome. Only one orky know-wot is very annoying though, and less understandable. How come my Warboss can't have a bike and a bosspole?

I think you need to read those bits again.

"One of each" means one of each, not a total of one.

yeah you can have multiple gifts.
but ONE model can only have ONE gift

**ClockworkZion**

RedNoak wrote:

- ghazskull has ONE special rule. no unique equipment or trait.

He has a Warlord Trait: "Prophet of the Waaagh!". Characters don't get Warlord Traits that aren't on the table somewhere. And while he only has one unique rule it's still a very good one, and he kept all of his old rules too. He's a proper beast of a character even without him having special wargear (which he's never had, his most unique thing was the skullplate he has but that only gave him Eternal Warrior, which he's still got).

**Crimson-King2120**

Well i quit 40K a while back ive been waiting for the ork dex to see if it was worth getting back into 40k by the look of this thread im gonna be sticking with the Batman miniatures game