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Eternal War missions - Tactical Marines. I stand by my position. Their tactical flexibility makes them amazing in my book.

Maelstrom missions - Guardian Jetbikers. Ping-ponging between objectives, snatching them out from under the people holding them, and flitting off with their Jinks to do it all again? Dynamite.

Anything that can take a wave... oh never mind.

Seriously though, eldar jetbikes and wraithguard with d scythe are probably my top 2. Jetbikes can be reserved, then parked behind something until it's time to grab an objective or distract an enemy. Wraithguard with d scythe are putting out AP2 template fire and can hose down all kinds of things. They're just pricey. BTW they're only troops when running iyanden with a spiritseer.

Depends on the circumstances, but if we're talking all-rounders, my vote goes for tac marines as well under iron hands/iron fists tactics-strongly dependent on playing style. I prefer lasting a little longer (IH)

There's a very long thread explaining in great detail why tac marines aren't even close to being the best troops. Have fun going up against an army like farsight bomb where 90% of the shooting coming at you is AP2. At least troops like jetbikes can take a save without hiding in ruins all day against that type of list.

Weeeeelllllllll................. if we are speaking troops as in strictly ONE troops choice slot then nobody, I mean NOBODY beats the guard inf platoon!

Being able to take 150+ models in one troop choice is just hilarious !

 Toofast wrote:
There's a very long thread explaining in great detail why tac marines aren't even close to being the best troops. Have fun going up against an army like farsight bomb where 90% of the shooting coming at you is AP2. At least troops like jetbikes can take a save without hiding in ruins all day against that type of list.

Which isn't an issue unique to Tac marines in any way, shape, or form. That's a pretty absurd reason to hate on Tac's in and of itself.

No, but it's an issue that several other troop choices don't have, along with being more mobile and/or putting out more firepower.

 Toofast wrote:
No, but it's an issue that several other troop choices don't have, along with being more mobile and/or putting out more firepower.

But no other Troop Choice are as individually hardy as Tacs, and it must be mentioned that Combat Squads allow them to take half the beating from a big weapon that they usually would.

I think the biggest prob with Tacs is that you might assume you can play them with only a few squads, where I believe it's actually best if you can field them en masse, as you'd do with most other Troops in the game.

 The Wise Dane wrote:
But no other Troop Choice are as individually hardy as Tacs

T4 3+ is hardy? Really? If you compare to gretchin, sure, but they actually are not that hard to kill with... anything, really.

I'd also argue Grey Knight Terminators are individually hardier than Tactical Marines.

GK have troops with 2+ 5++, eldar jetbikes get a 4+ jink or a 3+ with skilled rider and have a 3+ save normally. How is a tac marine with his 3+, no invuln and no jink more hardy than either of those?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forgot, you can also add conceal for a 2+ cover if you want an unkillable jetbike squad.

 Toofast wrote:
GK have troops with 2+ 5++, eldar jetbikes get a 4+ jink or a 3+ with skilled rider and have a 3+ save normally. How is a tac marine with his 3+, no invuln and no jink more hardy than either of those?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forgot, you can also add conceal for a 2+ cover if you want an unkillable jetbike squad.

My bad, they aren't the hardest, but they are still goddamn hard for a regular model... And it's not like they've got a 80 pt Transport like certain other factions have - 35 pt is a great price fo a transport.

I guess it come up to your meta and expectations. When I hear about the Eldar Jetbikes I can't help but think that they weren't supposed to be that hardy, and with GK you pay for that resilience out of your nose... But compared to other, balanced troop choices out there, you can get a hardy, pretty damaging and pretty fast moving troop choice for a decent pool of points. No, compared to Jetbikes, they are kinda gak, but is that the Tac's problem or the Jetbikes?

"Pretty damaging?" "Pretty fast moving?"

Tactical squads are in the running for lowest damage output in the game at their points value, and once you wreck their 35 point box by looking at it funny, they walk 6 with no movement related abilities.

Their only real plus is power armor and t4, and if you're shooting one of the 8 billion good low costed weapons that have been introduced in the last decade in the game, you are killing them on 2's with no save, or wounding them on 2's with so many wounds that they die even with saves.

We have another thread where people are clearly playing a different game.

 Toofast wrote:
No, but it's an issue that several other troop choices don't have, along with being more mobile and/or putting out more firepower.

It's an issue the vast majority of troops have to deal with barring some very elite units which generally cost signficantly more. Bikes are the big exception, but there's a good argument they're undercosted/overcapable right now anyway (which applies to SM and Eldar jetbikes equally).

 Ashiraya wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:
But no other Troop Choice are as individually hardy as Tacs

T4 3+ is hardy? Really? If you compare to gretchin, sure, but they actually are not that hard to kill with... anything, really.

Compared with most troops units, model for model, they're hardier than the majority.

I'd also argue Grey Knight Terminators are individually hardier than Tactical Marines.

To be fair here, GKT's are also two and a half times as many points. If you're talking about resiliency per point spent, the Tac's are probably better.

 Toofast wrote:
GK have troops with 2+ 5++, eldar jetbikes get a 4+ jink or a 3+ with skilled rider and have a 3+ save normally. How is a tac marine with his 3+, no invuln and no jink more hardy than either of those?

GKT's cost 33pts, not 14. Eldar Jetbikes usually aren't taken in very large numbers, and are much easier to break and force to run and can't engage the same variety of units and certainly aren't going to harm anything in an assault (unlike a Tac squad which is packing krak grenades and often a powerfist and so can trash tanks and put serious hurt on MC's).

I forgot, you can also add conceal for a 2+ cover if you want an unkillable jetbike squad.

Which requires support from another unit attached to the squad and is effectively a 50pt upgrade. Potent, but other armies have ways around that (assaults, cover ignoring weapons, psyker powers, etc). Eldar also are generally acknlowedged to be probably the most overpowered army in the game currently and Jetbikes are probably overcapable. Notice nobody is particularly jazzing on other Eldar troops choices either except for DA's and their "lowest tax" cost on Wave Serpents?

niv-mizzet wrote:
"Pretty damaging?" "Pretty fast moving?"

Tactical squads are in the running for lowest damage output in the game at their points value, and once you wreck their 35 point box by looking at it funny, they walk 6 with no movement related abilities.

Their only real plus is power armor and t4, and if you're shooting one of the 8 billion good low costed weapons that have been introduced in the last decade in the game, you are killing them on 2's with no save, or wounding them on 2's with so many wounds that they die even with saves.

"in the last decade of the game", as opposed to what, 2E where they saved on 4's against lasguns, on 5's against Heavy Bolters, and 6's against Autocannons?

This is a thread about the BEST troops in the game, not just "troops that are pretty good for the points", right? Everyone else seems to be arguing that tac marines are pretty good for the points. I never disputed that. I was disputing that they're the best troops in the game. No, eldar jetbikes can't kill anything in assault. Luckily assault is an afterthought in this edition and shooting/late game objective grabs win tournaments. I wouldn't attempt to kill anything in melee with a jetbike for the same reason I wouldn't hunt bear with .22LR

Eldar Jetbikes are great objective grabbers.

As overall "troops" units however which may be required to actually engage the enemy, and to *hold* objectives (say, to prevent an enemy from taking it, and not simply run around and grab Maelstrom objectives as they pop up), they're not particularly impressive. They're rarely taken in numbers sufficient to make their shooting scary (and that's assuming they're able to shoot and not jinking and/or moving flat out), and even when they are, they have to be so close that they're easily assaulted in turn (and likely subsequently destroyed even by relatively weak opponents).

 Toofast wrote:
This is a thread about the BEST troops in the game, not just "troops that are pretty good for the points", right? Everyone else seems to be arguing that tac marines are pretty good for the points. I never disputed that. I was disputing that they're the best troops in the game. No, eldar jetbikes can't kill anything in assault. Luckily assault is an afterthought in this edition and shooting/late game objective grabs win tournaments. I wouldn't attempt to kill anything in melee with a jetbike for the same reason I wouldn't hunt bear with .22LR

TBH I don't think they are any good at all. There is a reason most people at tournaments take 2 min sized units of scouts and call it a day. You never see a chaos list taking marines either, it's all cultists or cult units.
Because tacticals can be safely ignored unless drop podded. And even then, SW or BA in formation are the only ones worth it.

If you want...
10 marines, 16 bolter rounds. ~10 hits, ~5 wounds, probably 3-4 dead orks in cover. 18-24 points of dead ork, 21-28 maybe.
2 plasma gun rounds. 1.3 hits, 1.1 wounds, .8 or so dead orks.
1 heavy weapon round (lascannon whatever). .4 dead orks. So let's say...probably 5 dead orks doing not too accurate math because I'm lazy. 30-35 points.
6 rounds of rapid fire later I will wipe a squad of orks!

Same shots against other marines
bolters kill 1-2 dead marines
other weapons kill 1.2 marines roughly. So let's say 3 marines.
That is 42 points, worse if I happened to kill one of the 3 guys in the squad with a useful weapon.

If I throw the orks in cover that is better it gets worse. Marines barely benefit. You could take flamers but...
Orks are in charge range if you are flaming. A huge mob will soak those wounds and, unless you are SW, will just run over you in CC

So yeah. Pretty terrible and not durable unless both units stand in the open. Marines just don't benefit from cover like horde armies do.

Basic Chaos marines. Such flexibility.

Nercon Warriors or GK termies come in close seconds.

I would say that necron warriors that have a fearless character attached would be borderline best. With RP and ghost arks they would be nearly impossible to kill off.

Plague Marines. While not immediately Troops, you can unlock em pretty easily. They're also damn tough, have blights grenades which IIRC are defensive grenades, and have poison knives and poison boltguns.

I just think it's hilarious that marines are even mentioned in this thread. I literally avoid tacs like the plauge because they are the worst value in points to spend in the game...except maybe servitors might be worse.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I just think it's hilarious that marines are even mentioned in this thread. I literally avoid tacs like the plauge because they are the worst value in points to spend in the game...except maybe servitors might be worse.

You can tell a lot about someone's meta from this thread. Marines being the best troop tells me it's not very competitive.

 Xenomancers wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
I think point for point and the abilities they get, GK strike squads are the best troop option in the game. Bar none.

Strike Squads are great only +6 points to get a forceweapon and a stormbolter from a standard marine tac - ability for str6 in CC. 30 inch threat range. Psycannons are amazing.. GK Terms are even better.

Maybe two editions ago. They're very much not good right now. Psycannons are terrible on them, they're not nearly as good in combat as they might look on paper, and they die like the expensive Marines they are. They are outclassed by Gk Terminators, but GKT are average, not great. They're slow, not particularly durable for their cost, and they have pretty crappy ranged firepower. Storm bolters being slightly better than normal bolters does not make them great, and psycannons are only good in that they are flexible, and are pretty much outclassed by things like grav guns, melta, serpent shields, etc. Especially now that really good cover saves are so common and you can only hull point vehicles, not explode them.

Noise Marines, Plague Marines, and SM Bikers are not troops. They are units from other sections that can become troops through an HQ choice. It's not hard, if you look at the top of the page it tells you what section they are from.

 WellSpokenMan wrote:
Noise Marines, Plague Marines, and SM Bikers are not troops. They are units from other sections that can become troops through an HQ choice. It's not hard, if you look at the top of the page it tells you what section they are from.

FOC changes allow them to be taken as troops.
It's not hard, you just have to read the entry in the relevant HQ choice

Akiasura wrote:

 WellSpokenMan wrote:
Noise Marines, Plague Marines, and SM Bikers are not troops. They are units from other sections that can become troops through an HQ choice. It's not hard, if you look at the top of the page it tells you what section they are from.

FOC changes allow them to be taken as troops.
It's not hard, you just have to read the entry in the relevant HQ choice

Then what about Dataslates, Formations, Codex Supplements, Forgeworld, etc. Would anything that gets obsec count? Those FOC swaps are going away, and if someone needs somebody else to tell them that SM Bikers are good, then they probably belong in an assisted living home.

Best troops: LRBTs.

 WellSpokenMan wrote:

Akiasura wrote:

 WellSpokenMan wrote:
Noise Marines, Plague Marines, and SM Bikers are not troops. They are units from other sections that can become troops through an HQ choice. It's not hard, if you look at the top of the page it tells you what section they are from.

FOC changes allow them to be taken as troops.
It's not hard, you just have to read the entry in the relevant HQ choice

Then what about Dataslates, Formations, Codex Supplements, etc. Would anything that gets obsec count? Those FOC swaps are going away, and if someone needs somebody else to tell them that SM Bikers are good, then they probably belong in an assisted living home.

If it fills a troop slot at any time, it counts as a troop choice. Why wouldn't it?

The price of making it so could count as a mark against it, as it does with chaos lords on occasion, but I do not see why it wouldn't count.

 Peregrine wrote:
Best troops: LRBTs.

Dubious. LRBTs are certainly not bad but are they really that great?

By taking an all-tank army, you deny all enemy anti-infantry guns, but you will have real trouble if you encounter, say, Necrons.

 Ashiraya wrote:
LRBTs are certainly not bad but are they really that great?

Yes. LRBTs give you AV 14 spam and a useful long-range gun, two things that are very important when camping objectives at the back of the table.

By taking an all-tank army, you deny all enemy anti-infantry guns, but you will have real trouble if you encounter, say, Necrons.

Every unit has its counter. And the ability to entirely negate huge parts of an army is IMO more than enough to make up for the occasional problems with armies with tons of anti-tank units, especially since those armies aren't exactly helpless against other types of troops.