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Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





 Ghazkuul wrote:
Thats an oxymoron. But here's some ideas

Greentide with rokkits or klaws
Warboss with powerklaw
Lootas
Kannons
Warbikers
That FW Warboss on a bike
Multiple Meganob missile trukks

Weight of fire really. The warboss with klaw can punk off 3 or 4 wounds alone, combine that with lootas, kannons and rokkits and it should be dead turn 2.


Green tide can move 6 possibly run 6 and possibly assault 12 (which will never happen because its so big you will hit some terrain so its a -2 to charge). Thats a possible opening movement of 12 inches if you roll a 6. Turn 2 puts you 12 inches closer, but since the WK can JSJ and because it has great range and because its a JUMP GC it doesn't have to stay still and can just slide backwards a bit. So it would be a miracle to get the tide to a WK by turn 2.

Green tide can field up to 10 rokkitz, they have a rng of 24inches, you will not be firing them 1st turn unless your opponent is an idiot, and you forgo running.

Warboss with PK can in fact inflict 3-4 wounds. 5 attacks on the charge, he is WS5 So he will hit with 2/3 of his attacks so 3-4 depending on rolls, he will then wound on 1s because he is S10 with a PK (at Initiative 1) Of course this assumes that he wasn't blasted off the table before he got there and it factors in the WK no utterly destroying his squad with his 4 S10 AP2 attacks. The Wraithknight also gets his invul if he has one and his FNP so he will realistically inflict 2-3 wounds not 3-4. leaving you with 3-4 more wounds to kill.

Lootas, S7 AP4 Rng 48. These guys can hurt the wraithknight. if you field a full squad of 15 of them you will average 30 shots, 10 hits and 2 wounds. The Wraithknight gets a 3+ save and a 5+ FNP so maybe 1 wound a turn. (full squad of lootas = 210 points)

a Battery of 5 Kannons costs 90points bare, so you could field 3 of them so lets say 15 Kannonz. with a range of 36 they might not be in range but for the sake of math hammer lets say ALL gunz are somehow in range. 15shots = 7-8 hits, 3-4 wounds and again the GC either gets a CS an Invul save and will get his FNP so 1-2 wounds a turn. taking 3 turns to kill the WK. again assuming all gunz are in range, all gunz roll average and that the WK is kind enough to stand still and take it. (15 Kannonz = 270 points)

Warbikers: this is just dumb, only the Nob can actually hurt the WK and with only 4 attacks on the charge he wont do much. (on the charge he wounds on 3s and afterwards on 4s.)
Warbikers cost 94 points for a MSU with just 2 bikers and a Nob with PK/BP. so again field 3 units of them and you eat all your FA slots and you have 282 points sunk into it. 1 casualty on a squad makes them take the morale check and possibly inflict more wounds on your bikers. 12 movement + turbo they will make it to the WK turn 2 but they have to get shot at or counter attacked first. Plus the WK can choose to target all his attacks on a single squad and kill them all before they get to swing meaning only 2 Squads make it at best. so 8 Nob PK attacks, 4 Hits, 3 wounds. (S9 on charge). subtract FNP and Invul and maybe 2 wounds actually inflicted.

And lastly

Meganob Trukkz: What ever will the WK do, 2 squads of Meganobz in trukkz costs 300pts. Turn 1 the WK blows up a single trukk and the Meganobz inside are now effectively neutralized for 2 more turns because they are going to have to walk. Lets say that the other trukk somehow gets through. 3 meganobz Vs WK. WK goes first, 2 wounds will hit and kill 2 Meganobz right off the bat. so now your down to 1 meganob vs a WK. 4 attacks 2 hits 1-2 wounds if he is lucky and WK gets his Invul/FNP so maybe 1 wound.



So in the end No, none of those work. Unless you are saying that you should double or triple the points investment to remove the WK which is exactly what the WK wants you to do so he can just Jump backwards and soak up more of your armies potential for another turn while the rest of the Eldar army eats your units alive.

Any other suggestions?
yeah start a new army if your current one doesn't do well in the current meta. If your army can't deal with something doesn't mean change the new thing, it means you either except the fact that you can't hurt it and just go after all the other stuff in the army, or pick a new faction to play with. Idk what you except people to say.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan




Homestead, FL

yeah start a new army if your current one doesn't do well in the current meta. If your army can't deal with something doesn't mean change the new thing, it means you either except the fact that you can't hurt it and just go after all the other stuff in the army, or pick a new faction to play with. Idk what you except people to say.


what do i expect?

the WK is garbage, it's just a big distraction unit, any real competitive army will have that thing dead in 1-2 turns. You want powerful units and competive eldar.? Take hemlocks, there way better then WKs, scattbikes are also one of the best, so are warpspiders.


I want you to either answer my question, how Orks can kill a WK in 2 turns when neither side is being stupid, or I want you to admit that you are wrong.

I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Fareham

Ghaz - as much as it pisses me off to say it, ignore the thing.
If you run a numbers list the damage it causes is minimal in the scope of things.
To try and drop it using orks is suicide.
Klaws are the only reliable cc method, in which it stamps all over you before you can attack.

I hate suggesting to people to ignore certain models/units, but sometimes you have no real choice.




Eldar wise and OT - windriders are your solid core.
Hemlocks again are pretty damn solid and reliable.
Wraithknights are a huge distraction and great for picking on high point models and units.
Wraithguard with scythes are pretty brutal too.

All in all, Eldar have some nice solid choices, so you can run some units you like along with the stronger stuff and still do well.

   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan




Homestead, FL

 Jackal wrote:
Ghaz - as much as it pisses me off to say it, ignore the thing.
If you run a numbers list the damage it causes is minimal in the scope of things.
To try and drop it using orks is suicide.
Klaws are the only reliable cc method, in which it stamps all over you before you can attack.

I hate suggesting to people to ignore certain models/units, but sometimes you have no real choice.




Eldar wise and OT - windriders are your solid core.
Hemlocks again are pretty damn solid and reliable.
Wraithknights are a huge distraction and great for picking on high point models and units.
Wraithguard with scythes are pretty brutal too.

All in all, Eldar have some nice solid choices, so you can run some units you like along with the stronger stuff and still do well.



That is exactly what I do, I ignore it because it is just to fething tough to crack with my army, only certain armies can drop it in 1-2 turns. My point I was making was that DMan said EVERY competitive list can kill a WK in 1-2 turns and I used my knowledge of Orks to prove him wrong.

I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders 
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





Northern California

 Ravenous D wrote:
 TheNewBlood wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
After playing some more games, I have to say the WK is even worse than scatterbikes. Scatterbikes can be treated like DA bikers that have better shooting, but the WK is straight up impervious to too many things. And the WK is fantastic defense against drop/shunt lists. They are both horribly unbalanced, but I'm giving the nod to WK atm.

"But it dies to grav, so it's actually terrible! You just need to L2P goob." - The inevitable response from certain posters on this forum.

This is why I'm questioning the ITC's wisdom in allowing a duplicate formation, as it could potentially allow for two Wraithknights, As you've seen, one is bad enough already.


Newblood, it is terrible because most events only let you take 1, and there are so many counters to it that it isn't worth considering. If you weren't a goob that needs to learn to play you'd have the experience to know that by now. If you seriously cannot deal with a single wraithknight then you are, in fact, bad at the game.

Taking 2 in the current meta is even worse. Here's 2 drop centurion squads, Now you're missing 600pts + whatever else the sgts kill off.

Like clockwork, I tell you! If you put out enough rancid meant, you get some flies. Now to get the Raid...

Drop-podded Grav Centurions are about the only effective counter to Wraithknights, and really that's a case of countering one stupidly overpowered unit with another. Just because some factions all have easy access to allied Centstars doesn't mean that every army has an effective counter to the Wraithknight. If the Wraithknight was in fact balanced, every army could counter it without resorting to spamming Grav Centurions.

In any case, between cover/invulnerable saves and FnP there is a good chance the Wraithknight will survive long enough to kill the gravcents with shooting or CC. The reason two are even worse than one is that even if you kill one undercosted GC you have to kill the other. Grav Centurions die in CC to Wraithknights, as do most other things.

So, we have established that Censtars and Grav Cents in a drop pod can kill Wraithknights. What about all the armies that don't have access to those units? What if allies are restricted by the tournament format, or you just hate the idea that you have to go to another army just to make your current one viable at a hyper-competitive level? What if you just don't like having to kill one massive idol of power creep with another? Not everybody plays in the same environment that you do, Ravenous D. Some people just want to play for fun, and maybe their idea of fun isn't spamming the most broken combos and units in the game.
 Ravenous D wrote:
Really the butt hurt brigade just have to get over the fact that the meta changed and they must as well. Current competitive play in general circles around dealing with 3 things.

1) Invisibility
2) 2+ rerollable cover
3) Imperial knights and wraithknights

Imp and wraith knights are both easy to deal with, haywire, grav and D are so common now.

2+ rerollable cover is counter by ignores cover or a few tricksy ways around it.

Invisibility is the hard one, if you don't have a strong psychic defense you have to feed it or do some tricky barrage work.

The key to eldar is not the typical "eldar are hard, woe is me, change it GW, I cant think for myself" but rather think about how you can deal with it. Use the force multipliers and tools available to you. Don't be one of those lazy chuds that gets upset that they have to update their army.

Haywire is only truly common for Admech/Skitarii. Only Tau, Harlequins, and Dark Eldar have access to it otherwise. 2+ re-rollable cover isn't broken, but 2+ re-rollable armour and invulnerable saves are. Imperial Knights are balanced alone, but they can be spammed. Invisibility is utterly broken, and the only native counters are to run away from it. How many armies out there have all of this in common. Maybe one specific build involving allies, at most. At a hyper-competitive level these things might be balanced, but everywhere else it's broken as sin. Not everyone can just go out and buy a second army to "update" the faction and army they love and have been playing for years.

Here's a idea: maybe we house rule the three biggest problems away? Nerf Invisibility, change 2+ re-rollable saves, and limit people to only one Lord of War? Oh wait, the ITC did that already, and their tournaments have seen a lot more diversity in terms of armies instead of the same old netlist.
 Ravenous D wrote:
Its basically anything eldar if you listen to dakka and its inability to get over its daddys belt issue it has with eldar.

Im pretty sure I can make a 60 strong ranger list and get called cheese if I manage to win a game.

Man your hate groupies sure do like interacting with you. Face hard truths or hide under mom and dads coats and wait for the party to end.

Do you know why Eldar have a bad reputation? It's because of players like you. I agree that to some extent there will always be players who hate a faction for no reason, but you aren't helping by insulting people. Also, you keep using that term "goob". I'm afraid I have no choice but to break this out:

I'M A GOOFY GOOBER, YEAH!
YOU'RE A GOOFY GOOBER, YEAH!
WE'RE ALL GOOFY GOOBERS, YEAH!
GOOFY GOOFY GOOBER GOOBER !
ROCK!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dman137 wrote:
yeah start a new army if your current one doesn't do well in the current meta. If your army can't deal with something doesn't mean change the new thing, it means you either except the fact that you can't hurt it and just go after all the other stuff in the army, or pick a new faction to play with. Idk what you except people to say.

That's a awfully mercenary attitude. Plenty of people have an emotional attachment to the faction they chose and the army they built. Maybe they chose that army for the cool models and the awsome lore instead of what happened to be the competitive meta at the time.

It's an attitude you need with which you need to learn to empathize, Dman137. And here I always though that Canadians were friendly...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/05 19:22:47


~3000 (Fully Painted)
Coming Soon!
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





@thenewblood
You can have a emotional attachment to army, I'm sure a lot of people do, but in a competive environment (which is what the OP is about) sometimes the army you love isn't as good as others in a competitive stand point. If people have a problem with eldar or any Op units/dexs the. You can just simply not play against those people. Anyone is free to turn down a game if they feel they're not going to have fun. But in a competitive event you should bring the most competitive list you can think of because everyone else is going to do the same, people no that there going to see centstar, screamerstar, scattbikes... Bring something to counter those army's (or at least try to) if you can't do to you don't have the stuff and can't buy it or what not then that's just something your going to have to deal with.
For example I was having a hard time with daemons (screamerstar) so I found a way to counter it (culluexs assassin) and found a way to fit him into my army. Either way sometimes the army you love is just meant for those fun games you have with your friends and what not and not meant for competitive play.
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






So then what you meant to say was

"A select few armies are able to deal with the Wraithknight, the rest have no option against it and shouldn't have come to the tournament"

Is that why the WK is trash?

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





 Savageconvoy wrote:
So then what you meant to say was

"A select few armies are able to deal with the Wraithknight, the rest have no option against it and shouldn't have come to the tournament"

Is that why the WK is trash?
no what I'm saying is if you no that there are going to be WK at a event then bring something to deal with them, if you can't deal with them then either accept it or don't go to the event. The meta doesn't have to conform to you, you need to conform to it
   
Made in gb
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





Colne, England

Dman137 wrote:
 Savageconvoy wrote:
So then what you meant to say was

"A select few armies are able to deal with the Wraithknight, the rest have no option against it and shouldn't have come to the tournament"

Is that why the WK is trash?
no what I'm saying is if you no that there are going to be WK at a event then bring something to deal with them, if you can't deal with them then either accept it or don't go to the event. The meta doesn't have to conform to you, you need to conform to it


Then surely if the meta excludes some armies, either a) the meta is dumb and broken, or b) I don't have a b, the meta is dumb and broken and filled with hilariously broken things, the kind of things we laughed at people for even imagining in 5th.

Brb learning to play.

 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






Dman137 wrote:
no what I'm saying is if you no that there are going to be WK at a event then bring something to deal with them, if you can't deal with them then either accept it or don't go to the event. The meta doesn't have to conform to you, you need to conform to it


Okay... So then the WK is trash because...
some armies have tools to counter them, even though the mere inclusion of a WK can render entire armies nonviable.

How does that not make the WK good, since you effectively create the meta that you can knowingly prepare for?
More importantly, do Eldar have the means to go against counters to the WK?

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





Northern California

Dman137 wrote:@thenewblood
You can have a emotional attachment to army, I'm sure a lot of people do, but in a competive environment (which is what the OP is about) sometimes the army you love isn't as good as others in a competitive stand point. If people have a problem with eldar or any Op units/dexs the. You can just simply not play against those people. Anyone is free to turn down a game if they feel they're not going to have fun. But in a competitive event you should bring the most competitive list you can think of because everyone else is going to do the same, people no that there going to see centstar, screamerstar, scattbikes... Bring something to counter those army's (or at least try to) if you can't do to you don't have the stuff and can't buy it or what not then that's just something your going to have to deal with.
For example I was having a hard time with daemons (screamerstar) so I found a way to counter it (culluexs assassin) and found a way to fit him into my army. Either way sometimes the army you love is just meant for those fun games you have with your friends and what not and not meant for competitive play.

"Just not playing" isn't an option at tournaments unless you like handing your opponent an instant win, and is a great way to look bad if not handled politely at casual groups.

Sure, there's a definite difference between competitive and casual games. But the game itself isn't balanced in either of those areas. What's a CSM player to do if somebody shows up to the Friday night round of pickup games with a Saim-Hann or Iyanden army? There has to be some compromise, and that's where house rules come in. There's a reason most tournaments only let you take one Wraithknight, and it's to let people have effective counters to Wraithknights in their list.
Savageconvoy wrote:
Dman137 wrote:
no what I'm saying is if you no that there are going to be WK at a event then bring something to deal with them, if you can't deal with them then either accept it or don't go to the event. The meta doesn't have to conform to you, you need to conform to it


Okay... So then the WK is trash because...
some armies have tools to counter them, even though the mere inclusion of a WK can render entire armies nonviable.

How does that not make the WK good, since you effectively create the meta that you can knowingly prepare for?
More importantly, do Eldar have the means to go against counters to the WK?

This is the Eldar codex we're talking about. Of course Eldar have counters. Grav is hard-countered by MSU Footdar, superheavies and GCs fall to drop Wraithguard or Fire Dragons, and deathstars can be countered with a Seerstar or with Harlequin allies (Cast Fog of Dreams on an invisible unit. Engage trollface )

~3000 (Fully Painted)
Coming Soon!
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





40k is pay to win, you want to win the you have to dish out the cash, you want to play with a outdated army then that's your problem. There is still skill in 40k but it's more so how deep your pockets are. And if you can't dish it out then why should those that do have to dumb down there army to play you.? People need to get with the program. This is what 40k is and it don't look like it's going to change anytime soon, so either hop on the train or just get off. (And by get off I mean, play your fu. Games with your friends and blah blah blah) but don't go on about how broken things are when you don't play in events.
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






Dman137 wrote:
40k is pay to win, you want to win the you have to dish out the cash, you want to play with a outdated army then that's your problem.

Then don't say things like how any competitive army can deal with a WK in 1-2 turns if what you really mean is a select few competitive armies can deal with WK in a very limiting environment.
Don't say that Eldar are fine when you very clearly mean that people need to buy Eldar or use the most abusive allies rules available.

And remember this, it's not just in the competitive setting. Those Eldar lists are still completely kosher by the rules in a casual setting. Casual players don't have the benefit of having a governing body try to limit the absurdness.
So what you probably mean overall is "Get Eldar or get out" but I don't want to put words in your mouth, since yours tend to be more entertaining.

There is still skill in 40k but it's more so how deep your pockets are. And if you can't dish it out then why should those that do have to dumb down there army to play you.?

Wow. Entitled much?

This is what 40k is and it don't look like it's going to change anytime soon

Why would you say that? In 2 years we saw hard cover books, a new edition, fortifications, a fortification book, superheavies, a superheavy book, "collector" edition books, data slates, formations, allies, another new edition, and updates to armies a little over a year old.

We have seen nothing but change in a short time.

don't go on about how broken things are when you don't play in events.

After you just went on a long rant about how it's broken and why that's fine?
Maybe I don't play events because it's broken?

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





 Savageconvoy wrote:
Dman137 wrote:
40k is pay to win, you want to win the you have to dish out the cash, you want to play with a outdated army then that's your problem.

Then don't say things like how any competitive army can deal with a WK in 1-2 turns if what you really mean is a select few competitive armies can deal with WK in a very limiting environment.
Don't say that Eldar are fine when you very clearly mean that people need to buy Eldar or use the most abusive allies rules available.

And remember this, it's not just in the competitive setting. Those Eldar lists are still completely kosher by the rules in a casual setting. Casual players don't have the benefit of having a governing body try to limit the absurdness.
So what you probably mean overall is "Get Eldar or get out" but I don't want to put words in your mouth, since yours tend to be more entertaining.

There is still skill in 40k but it's more so how deep your pockets are. And if you can't dish it out then why should those that do have to dumb down there army to play you.?

Wow. Entitled much?

This is what 40k is and it don't look like it's going to change anytime soon

Why would you say that? In 2 years we saw hard cover books, a new edition, fortifications, a fortification book, superheavies, a superheavy book, "collector" edition books, data slates, formations, allies, another new edition, and updates to armies a little over a year old.

We have seen nothing but change in a short time.

don't go on about how broken things are when you don't play in events.

After you just went on a long rant about how it's broken and why that's fine?
Maybe I don't play events because it's broken?
a lot of things in the game are broken, get used to it. Bring broken things and have fun with them, but don't go on about "I dont go because it's broken" no one is forcing you to go, stay home.
People complain to much, just go with the flow and if you don't want to then play something else trust me GW isn't going to change because people are sad.
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






Why not? Sad people = unhappy consumers. Unhappy consumers = poor sales. We have already seen this in action.

But you're ignoring what I was saying. Your statement was wrong and now you're just saying that things are just broken and will stay broken. When they weren't broken only 3-4 years ago.

How long have you been playing exactly?

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





Northern California

@Savageconvoy: No fair! Your Dman137 response got posted before mine! You don't get to monopolize the mockery.
Dman137 wrote:
40k is pay to win, you want to win the you have to dish out the cash, you want to play with a outdated army then that's your problem. There is still skill in 40k but it's more so how deep your pockets are. And if you can't dish it out then why should those that do have to dumb down there army to play you.? People need to get with the program. This is what 40k is and it don't look like it's going to change anytime soon, so either hop on the train or just get off. (And by get off I mean, play your fu. Games with your friends and blah blah blah) but don't go on about how broken things are when you don't play in events.

Sure, you can pay to win events by buying the most overpowered units from the best netlist. But winning isn't everything. Surely an accomplished sportsman like yourself only plays out of love of the game and sharing the competitive spirit with friendly people, No?

Okay, not even I can take that seriously, especially when it comes to you. Surely there has to be some skill in moving units around and target selection and prioritization of objectives, or is it just literally a competition of who has the biggest bank account?

We may play different variations of the game at different levels, but it's all fundamentally tha same game, which means all of our opinions are equally valid. You don't get to just dismiss the balance problems that crop up in casual games by saying they don't matter, or literally "blah blah blah". That's my new signature, by the way. Thank you for giving me free material.


Dman137 wrote:a lot of things in the game are broken, get used to it. Bring broken things and have fun with them, but don't go on about "I dont go because it's broken" no one is forcing you to go, stay home. People complain to much, just go with the flow and if you don't want to then play something else trust me GW isn't going to change because people are sad.

If the game is broken, it's broken at all levels, not just the competitive level. Are you telling casual players to stop playing the game entirely?

If there's anything we can predict about 40k, it's change. the game will probably be totally different in a couple years with the release of a new edition. Another army might even come out in 7th edition that eclipses Eldar in terms of power (shudders). If one does, I sincerely hope you put your words into action and buy that new flavor of broken army because you're giving Eldar players like me a bad name, and I'm sick of it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/06 00:08:04


~3000 (Fully Painted)
Coming Soon!
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





 TheNewBlood wrote:
@Savageconvoy: No fair! Your Dman137 response got posted before mine! You don't get to monopolize the mockery.
Dman137 wrote:
40k is pay to win, you want to win the you have to dish out the cash, you want to play with a outdated army then that's your problem. There is still skill in 40k but it's more so how deep your pockets are. And if you can't dish it out then why should those that do have to dumb down there army to play you.? People need to get with the program. This is what 40k is and it don't look like it's going to change anytime soon, so either hop on the train or just get off. (And by get off I mean, play your fu. Games with your friends and blah blah blah) but don't go on about how broken things are when you don't play in events.

Sure, you can pay to win events by buying the most overpowered units from the best netlist. But winning isn't everything. Surely an accomplished sportsman like yourself only plays out of love of the game and sharing the competitive spirit with friendly people, No?

Okay, not even I can take that seriously, especially when it comes to you. Surely there has to be some skill in moving units around and target selection and prioritization of objectives, or is it just literally a competition of who has the biggest bank account?

We may play different variations of the game at different levels, but it's all fundamentally tha same game, which means all of our opinions are equally valid. You don't get to just dismiss the balance problems that crop up in casual games by saying they don't matter, or literally "blah blah blah". That's my new signature, by the way. Thank you for giving me free material.


Dman137 wrote:a lot of things in the game are broken, get used to it. Bring broken things and have fun with them, but don't go on about "I dont go because it's broken" no one is forcing you to go, stay home. People complain to much, just go with the flow and if you don't want to then play something else trust me GW isn't going to change because people are sad.

If the game is broken, it's broken at all levels, not just the competitive level. Are you telling casual players to stop playing the game entirely?

If there's anything we can predict about 40k, it's change. the game will probably be totally different in a couple years with the release of a new edition. Another army might even come out in 7th edition that eclipses Eldar in terms of power (shudders). If one does, I sincerely hope you put your words into action and buy that new flavor of broken army because you're giving Eldar players like me a bad name, and I'm sick of it.
so sensitive jeeze lol I'm giving eldar players a bad name lmao if I am then oh well, I don't lose sleep over it. And as for your new game theory, 40k is becoming more and more about big the big super units and play with that. I'm tired of hearing everyone complains about every single thing in 40k the hate and needs to be fix and w.e. Jesus just play the game and get over it, it's a game with little soldiers and people treat it like life and death, I've seen a 40yesr old man cry after he lost a game, get over yourself.
I can't wait for daboyzGT or as everyone is calling it now "th3 bring the best deathstarsGT"
   
Made in ca
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




Dman gives dakka dakka a good name!

He has courteously posted the new rules for the ghostkeel, for those of us condemned to exile in the 40k general discussion forum.

If only some of you other troublemakers could learn from his example -- focusing on content, rather than constantly starting drama! -- our forum would be a happier, gentler place.

Get with the program boys

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/06 00:19:28


 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





 Savageconvoy wrote:
Why not? Sad people = unhappy consumers. Unhappy consumers = poor sales. We have already seen this in action.

But you're ignoring what I was saying. Your statement was wrong and now you're just saying that things are just broken and will stay broken. When they weren't broken only 3-4 years ago.

How long have you been playing exactly?
GW doesn't care lol you think they give a crap.? Go ask all the WHFB players that lost there game and got replaced with age of sigmar. Things have always been broken in 40k, 3ed spacewolf terminators, 4ed eldar samm-han, 5ed ork nob bikes, 6th wave serpents, 7th grav, d weapons, the list goes on.. So don't sit there and think this is just happening now 40k has always been unbalanced you just had to learn to adapt
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





Northern California

Dman137 wrote:
so sensitive jeeze lol I'm giving eldar players a bad name lmao if I am then oh well, I don't lose sleep over it. And as for your new game theory, 40k is becoming more and more about big the big super units and play with that. I'm tired of hearing everyone complains about every single thing in 40k the hate and needs to be fix and w.e. Jesus just play the game and get over it, it's a game with little soldiers and people treat it like life and death, I've seen a 40yesr old man cry after he lost a game, get over yourself.
I can't wait for daboyzGT or as everyone is calling it now "th3 bring the best deathstarsGT"

Do you know why people on this forum at least pretend to take me seriously? It's because I don't have a bad attitude. You might be a lot more tolerable if it weren't for you habit of posting inflammatory comments. That and making your posts borderline unreadable due to typos and a lack of punctuation.

You do give Eldar players a bad name, in that you're upholding the stereotype of Eldar players being "that guy". I'm honestly hoping (and somewhat surprised) that you switch armies soon so the Tau/Ravenwing/Space Wolf players can deal with you.

Sure it is a game, but it's a game that many people love playing and have been with for years. when there are changes that negative impact the game people are bound to get upset. Those feelings are real, and you can't just blithely dismiss them away.

I can't wait for your inevitable complaint thread about DaBoyzGT being biased against Eldar!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yoyoyo wrote:
Dman gives dakka dakka a good name!

He has courteously posted the new rules for the ghostkeel, for those of us condemned to exile in the 40k general discussion forum.

If only some of you other troublemakers could learn from his example -- focusing on content, rather than constantly starting drama! -- our forum would be a happier, gentler place.

Get with the program boys


Sarcasm not detected...

One's posting reputation tends to carry over between threads and forums.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/06 00:31:36


~3000 (Fully Painted)
Coming Soon!
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





 TheNewBlood wrote:
Dman137 wrote:
so sensitive jeeze lol I'm giving eldar players a bad name lmao if I am then oh well, I don't lose sleep over it. And as for your new game theory, 40k is becoming more and more about big the big super units and play with that. I'm tired of hearing everyone complains about every single thing in 40k the hate and needs to be fix and w.e. Jesus just play the game and get over it, it's a game with little soldiers and people treat it like life and death, I've seen a 40yesr old man cry after he lost a game, get over yourself.
I can't wait for daboyzGT or as everyone is calling it now "th3 bring the best deathstarsGT"

Do you know why people on this forum at least pretend to take me seriously? It's because I don't have a bad attitude. You might be a lot more tolerable if it weren't for you habit of posting inflammatory comments. That and making your posts borderline unreadable due to typos and a lack of punctuation.

You do give Eldar players a bad name, in that you're upholding the stereotype of Eldar players being "that guy". I'm honestly hoping (and somewhat surprised) that you switch armies soon so the Tau/Ravenwing/Space Wolf players can deal with you.

Sure it is a game, but it's a game that many people love playing and have been with for years. when there are changes that negative impact the game people are bound to get upset. Those feelings are real, and you can't just blithely dismiss them away.

I can't wait for your inevitable complaint thread about DaBoyzGT being biased against Eldar!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yoyoyo wrote:
Dman gives dakka dakka a good name!

He has courteously posted the new rules for the ghostkeel, for those of us condemned to exile in the 40k general discussion forum.

If only some of you other troublemakers could learn from his example -- focusing on content, rather than constantly starting drama! -- our forum would be a happier, gentler place.

Get with the program boys


Sarcasm not detected...

One's posting reputation tends to carry over between threads and forums.
I play with many army's and do very well with all. SM, tau, eldar, orks, and believe it or not CSM, and I'm locking forward to daboyz because I like going to events and playing competitive games and from what I've seen daboyz only made eldar that much better (can't take scars pan is about the only thing that changed for eldar) but I'm curious to see what people bring should be fun
   
Made in ca
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




 TheNewBlood wrote:
Sarcasm not detected...
I'm celebrating the release of the Ghostkeel
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan




Homestead, FL

From older posts didn't we discover that DMan is fairly young? which means that he is fielding a ton of armies at a young age meaning he is either a genius computer programmer, Wall Street Shark or more likely a spoiled rich kid

DMan said any competitive army can beat a WK in 2 turns, I showed him it wasn't true, so he changes tactics and goes and says you have to go buy new armies to be competitive.

Whenever you prove him wrong he completely changes the topic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/06 01:55:58


I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders 
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





Northern California

 Ghazkuul wrote:
From older posts didn't we discover that DMan is fairly young? which means that he is fielding a ton of armies at a young age meaning he is either a genius computer programmer, Wall Street Shark or more likely a spoiled rich kid

DMan said any competitive army can beat a WK in 2 turns, I showed him it wasn't true, so he changes tactics and goes and says you have to go buy new armies to be competitive.

Whenever you prove him wrong he completely changes the topic.

I don't remember ever finding anything out about Dman137's age, other than I once called him "Son of Morgoth". I get the sense you don't like young people...

You don't post in a Dman137 thread to argue logically with the OP. You come for the popcorn and entertainment to see how far Dman137 will sink.

~3000 (Fully Painted)
Coming Soon!
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
 
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant






What is a competitive Eldar list?

Something that makes you lose friends and gain enemies in equal measures.
As to your question of is it good: yes, a competitive eldar list is extremely potent.

This could be seen as a negative thing however, as if you do go competitive all the way, then it will be so powerful that many players will not want to have a game against it.
As to buying a new Eldar army on the cheap, just go for it. The codex will remain relevant for years to come, and there is barely a bum unit in the entire book.

You don't post in a Dman137 thread to argue logically with the OP.

I personally would like to thank Dman137 for the joy and humour his illogical posts bring me.
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin




Roswell, GA

 TheNewBlood wrote:
@Savageconvoy: No fair! Your Dman137 response got posted before mine! You don't get to monopolize the mockery.
Dman137 wrote:
40k is pay to win, you want to win the you have to dish out the cash, you want to play with a outdated army then that's your problem. There is still skill in 40k but it's more so how deep your pockets are. And if you can't dish it out then why should those that do have to dumb down there army to play you.? People need to get with the program. This is what 40k is and it don't look like it's going to change anytime soon, so either hop on the train or just get off. (And by get off I mean, play your fu. Games with your friends and blah blah blah) but don't go on about how broken things are when you don't play in events.

Sure, you can pay to win events by buying the most overpowered units from the best netlist. But winning isn't everything. Surely an accomplished sportsman like yourself only plays out of love of the game and sharing the competitive spirit with friendly people, No?

Okay, not even I can take that seriously, especially when it comes to you. Surely there has to be some skill in moving units around and target selection and prioritization of objectives, or is it just literally a competition of who has the biggest bank account?

We may play different variations of the game at different levels, but it's all fundamentally tha same game, which means all of our opinions are equally valid. You don't get to just dismiss the balance problems that crop up in casual games by saying they don't matter, or literally "blah blah blah". That's my new signature, by the way. Thank you for giving me free material.


Dman137 wrote:a lot of things in the game are broken, get used to it. Bring broken things and have fun with them, but don't go on about "I dont go because it's broken" no one is forcing you to go, stay home. People complain to much, just go with the flow and if you don't want to then play something else trust me GW isn't going to change because people are sad.

If the game is broken, it's broken at all levels, not just the competitive level. Are you telling casual players to stop playing the game entirely?

If there's anything we can predict about 40k, it's change. the game will probably be totally different in a couple years with the release of a new edition. Another army might even come out in 7th edition that eclipses Eldar in terms of power (shudders). If one does, I sincerely hope you put your words into action and buy that new flavor of broken army because you're giving Eldar players like me a bad name, and I'm sick of it.


This crap is why I only play with friends.
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre



california

OP, best advice? If you don't wanna end up like dboy, don't play eldar. Please. Also, accept no advice from dboy.
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





Northern California

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
OP, best advice? If you don't wanna end up like dboy, don't play eldar. Please. Also, accept no advice from dboy.

Though plenty of people on this website would tell you otherwise, Eldar can be played in a way that is relatively balanced and much more fair to the opponent. It requires intentional effort, but it can be done. The biggest step is not to bring Scatbikers, Wraithknights, or anything with a D-weapon. The second is to talk with your opponent about exactly what kind of game they want to have.

Dman137 can give good advice, in the same sense that a broken clock is accurate twice a day. It can be helpful, but only if you already know something; most of the time it isn't worth paying it any attention.

~3000 (Fully Painted)
Coming Soon!
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
 
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Everything goes both ways. Remember, if your opponent is a Decurion optimising player or a Skyhammer/Gladius grav spammer or a 5 flygrant or flying circus type, then you definitely need your scatbikers and D weapons if you want a good game. Despite what people say, there are lists out there just as good and brutal as any optimised Eldar list. But if your opponent plays a casual CSM or DE list or something then leave it at home.

Like any hobby or any activity with a social element, the single most important thing is communication. This applies to all walks of life.
   
Made in nl
Ferocious Blood Claw






I just wanted some expert opinion on a potential competitive Eldar list, that I would rarely use in friendly games.

I know eldar can be (too) powerfull, but that's partly why want to give them a go (and I have the means to).

please don't comment how broken they are, that point has been made.

I just want to get an idea of which models are the best choice.

thanks for any input.

 
   
 
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