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2015/11/12 16:02:14
Subject: New Games Workshop Specialist Studio - Including LOTR, Epic, BFG - Multiple stores confirming!
Still disgusted at the hypocrisy from some people regarding this announcement, especially when certain dakka members swore blood oaths never to buy GW stuff ever again.
If people want to buy GW stuff and enjoy their stuff, that is their God given right, but please do me a favour:
Months down the line, when GW screw somebody else over a la chapterhouse, or ditch one of these games (again) please don't whine about it on dakka.
You'll get zero sympathy from me.
Well, it's kind of like a hopeful dream for a bunch of people that got brushed off by GW.
I swore off GW models for years, and then picked up a bunch of Empire stuff second hand for a KoW army (second one will be fully Mantic, though).
And, playing devil's advocate here, what happens if they smash the ball out of the park on these? What if FW's team is enough old-school GW to keep the rules mostly intact, and offer the minis at an acceptable (not great, but acceptable) price?
I don't think that'll happen, though. The only reason why the HH game sold so well is because it's cheap compared to the insane FW prices. And you can't tell me the models on the market nowadays, like all the various teams for Blood Bowl, aren't better than what GW offer, or would cost less.
I'm just struggling to understand the mentality of some people regarding this 'announcement.'
You have two option when it comes to buying mini wargames stuff these days.
1) GW, a company that treats customers and retailers like dirt, churns out rubbish rule sets, over-priced models and has a track record of not giving two hoots about the gaming community.
2) Various companies that listen to their customers, accept feedback, write great rule sets, sell models at a reasonable price, and bend over backwards to work with retailers and the gaming community.
And dakka's reaction? Option 1! Take my money GW. Take my money!!!
A massive WTF is going on here!!!
The only hypocrisy here is from those who bashed GW while continuing to hand them cash every week.
Nearly any company of notable size behaves badly in some form or other if you look hard enough. If that's your sole metric for who you give your custom, you'll have a hard time feeding yourself, clothing yourself, getting well if you get sick, communicating with anyone that isn't in the same room as you etc etc. Not to diminish the reprehensible behaviour of any company, but anyone criticising GWsolelyfor their bad behaviour is, in the majority of cases, likely supporting someone else who is guilty of far greater sins, possibly even in the process of posting a GW bashing post.
So, if one removes the, sadly fairly typical, bad corporate behaviour from the equation, the core argument you're left with is "GW does not a product that represents sufficient value of quality to justify the price." Which is my own personal angle. If that changes, then so does my viewpoint.
Plenty of alternatives out there when is comes to ethical choices regarding banking, food, clothes etc etc
The co-op bank is a good alternative to the big banks.
Plenty of food choices out there if you don't like ASDA or Tesco.
Up here in Scotland, Coca Cola is not the number one drink (only country in the world where that's the case)
and as far as our hobby goes, dozens of great alternatives to GW.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/11/12 16:03:28
Subject: New Games Workshop Specialist Studio - Including LOTR, Epic, BFG - Multiple stores confirming!
George Spiggott wrote: A lot of the minis for these game were metal. What are GW going to make them out of now? What are they currently using for non plastic kits?
Unless they actively reduce prices for The Hobbit I can see Hobbit style pricing being standard across the board.
This is the new FW, expect mass use models in plastic, and lower volume in resin.
The Chinese are already doing the old metal BFG in resin, and they work well, so I understand.
Plenty of alternatives out there when is comes to ethical choices regarding banking, food, clothes etc etc
The co-op bank is a good alternative to the big banks.
Plenty of food choices out there if you don't like ASDA or Tesco.
Up here in Scotland, Coca Cola is not the number one drink (only country in the world where that's the case)
and as far as our hobby goes, dozens of great alternatives to GW.
The Co-Op? I seem to recall the Chief Executive resigning under a cloud a little while back, I'm pretty sure that Coke isn't the top selling drink in Scotland on moral grounds and I doubt more than a tiny percentage of people trawl around all the various grocers, butchers etc unless they're looking for something niche.
Either way, the presence of alternatives isn't my point, my point is that the key source of objection for most people is that GW wasn't making a product they wanted at a price they felt was reasonable, if that changes, expect people's attitudes to as well.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/11/12 16:12:26
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Imperator in resin would still be cheaper than current ebay prices.
Same for the BFG stuff. In fact, given the hassle involved in those big metal ships on the flying bases, resin is probably a better option all round.
I still play my Necromunda game, I also have an unopened gorkamorka and a complete heroquest. I suspect i'll buy models as they are released, I doubt I'll be buying complete games, I like the rules as they were, and have little faith current rules people could improve them.
With warmaster, I have no faith at all, its the finest ruleset GW ever produced, and likely will ever produce. I just want some modern models to play it with.
2015/11/12 16:15:49
Subject: New Games Workshop Specialist Studio - Including LOTR, Epic, BFG - Multiple stores confirming!
George Spiggott wrote: A lot of the minis for these game were metal. What are GW going to make them out of now? What are they currently using for non plastic kits?
Unless they actively reduce prices for The Hobbit I can see Hobbit style pricing being standard across the board.
This is the new FW, expect mass use models in plastic, and lower volume in resin.
The Chinese are already doing the old metal BFG in resin, and they work well, so I understand.
Yeah, don't forget all the original armies for Epic had plastic covering the basic troops and APCs/Tanks all on a sprue not much bigger than the single character models you get for 40k these days. GW have nearly 20 years development on that now too. Seems logical that this would be the starting point with resin specialist vehicle ala what FW were making up until 3 years ago.
George Spiggott wrote: A lot of the minis for these game were metal. What are GW going to make them out of now? What are they currently using for non plastic kits?
Unless they actively reduce prices for The Hobbit I can see Hobbit style pricing being standard across the board.
This is the new FW, expect mass use models in plastic, and lower volume in resin.
The Chinese are already doing the old metal BFG in resin, and they work well, so I understand.
Yeah, don't forget all the original armies for Epic had plastic covering the basic troops and APCs/Tanks all on a sprue not much bigger than the single character models you get for 40k these days. GW have nearly 20 years development on that now too. Seems logical that this would be the starting point with resin specialist vehicle ala what FW were making up until 3 years ago.
....Up here in Scotland, Coca Cola is not the number one drink (only country in the world where that's the case)
and as far as our hobby goes, dozens of great alternatives to GW.
Ironbrew deep fried in a crisp whisk batter?
I like alternatives but I also like original GW minis. An opportunity to get updated models and terrain is definitely not something to complain about.
Your anti-Scottish agenda is well known on these boards
This post seems to have gone a bit weird on the technical side. Better get legoburner to sort it out. Quotes are all over the place.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/12 16:24:05
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/11/12 16:41:00
Subject: New Games Workshop Specialist Studio - Including LOTR, Epic, BFG - Multiple stores confirming!
What was battlefleet gothic? Was it a space based game with fleets of ships? If so and they brought out top quality plastic eldar corsairs ships I'd be very interested in a game like that.
They could even come up with a ruleset that would allow you to play a 40k game alongside it and it would represent a battle going on down on the planet whilst fleets were engaged above the planet. You could make a very cool version of planetstrike doing that!
2015/11/12 16:46:46
Subject: New Games Workshop Specialist Studio - Including LOTR, Epic, BFG - Multiple stores confirming!
ColdSadHungry wrote: What was battlefleet gothic? Was it a space based game with fleets of ships? If so and they brought out top quality plastic eldar corsairs ships I'd be very interested in a game like that.
They could even come up with a ruleset that would allow you to play a 40k game alongside it and it would represent a battle going on down on the planet whilst fleets were engaged above the planet. You could make a very cool version of planetstrike doing that!
Yep that was all there, corsairs and craftworld Eldar. BFG: Invasion was a supplement produced to do some combined actions.
Recently, I've finished a campaign that combined BFG, Aeronautica: Imperialis, Epic, 40k and Zone Mortalis in various guises to do a full planetary invasion. Bloody wicked fun!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/12 16:48:51
2015/11/12 16:51:16
Subject: New Games Workshop Specialist Studio - Including LOTR, Epic, BFG - Multiple stores confirming!
First of all, I'll believe this when it shows up on the GW webstore or get an official email announcement...
Second, this is just a way for them to retire the LotR/Hobbit line without 'technically' retiring it. Don't think this supposed 'new' specialist games studio will get any substantial funding...much like the 'old' specialist games studio.
Third, who in their right mind wants GW to write or update any of these great old games that have been polished and refined by the greater gaming community that has continued to play them since GW threw them all out with the bathwater the first time?!
Look what GW has done to their 'core' games recently. Warhammer was flogged and left bleeding in a seedy back alley, only to be replaced with Age of Sigmarines which has a laughable set of rules..and 40k is a convoluted, bloated mess...each new army update invalidating most people's current collections, and designing formations with 3 of every new $100 kit that make the army competitive again.
Seriously, if the game rules are being designed by the marketing team, I certainly don't want anything to do with them any more...
The community versions of the great old games are doing really well, Yakromunda and NetEpic come to mind. There's even some great 'not' GW minis out there on independent sites and shapeways for these games.
The only good thing about this, should it be true, is that there 'may' be new models...or at the very least, re-released models that have gone out of print....but even then, there are so many minis that comprise the libraries of each of those games (even if they just stick to the ones on that list)...there is no way they could adequately support any one of them enough without throwing some serious money and people at it...which just isnt going to happen.
I know a lot of this is hyperbole, but I truly feel this is too little, too late from a slowly fading curmudgeon, who has consistently forsaken the masses that got them to where they once were...the greatest miniature games company in the world.
It IS an official announcement, the GW store FB pages is where the info is coming from!
GW isn't re-writing the rules, if anyone is rewriting the rules it'll be the new independent studio, a la like FW already is, and most people are happy with what they're doing with 30K.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/12 16:55:20
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
A half-assed, typo-ridden flyer from a FB page in Australia is the lead in announcing a major new division for the largest miniatures company in the world? And some of you are jumping up and down as if the company has finally turned over a new leaf? Your faith in this going well baffles me. This is business as usual, and it will end in tears and rage.
Games Workshop: Peterborough
1 hr · King's Lynn, United Kingdom ·
ITS ALL TRUE ........ WELL BITS OF IT ANYWAY!
So I've been e-mailing most of the day and here - hopefully is the end to the rumours!
There is a LONG TERM (at least 6 months likely more) investment into bringing back some of our classic beloved games from Specialist Games. This will NOT be falling under the auspice of the Games Workshop side of the business, but linked up with Forgeworld instead. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WORD on a timescale or indeed, which specialist games may be looked at, whether they will be given a rejig or anything of that nature.
I stress this is a while in the future - the team to oversee the project has not even been assembled!
That is the offical message I have now recieved!
That said maybe it would be no bad thing to THINK about which citdel minis would make great gangmembers etc.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2015/11/12 17:08:10
Subject: New Games Workshop Specialist Studio - Including LOTR, Epic, BFG - Multiple stores confirming!
Yeah, no. Single character models like that Belial are nice to have from other sources, no one (Recasters excluded) offers a full range of "that" Space Marine look (while Anvil has nice bits, the whole models just don't do it for me).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/12 17:08:40
If someone wants to bet that it isn't happening, I'll take the other side of that. Should we set the stakes at an Imperial Knight?
Yeah, me too.
I need an Archeron to complete my Cerastus triumvirate.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
So, the things they shouldn't keep secret like new releases: one week advance notice. A new company division that doesn't even exist and has no products to show for months: shoddy FB announcement.
No one is doubting this isn't happening, just some of us can't understand the bubbly enthusiasm for the oncoming headlights.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/12 17:15:04
This Specialist Games thing is happening. It is not a secret within GW as of right now. An internal "Vox Caster" company wide email discusses various aspects of it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/12 17:17:57
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2015/11/12 17:21:07
Subject: Re:New Games Workshop Specialist Studio - Including LOTR, Epic, BFG - Multiple stores confirming!
the_Armyman wrote: So, the things they shouldn't keep secret like new releases: one week advance notice. A new company division that doesn't even exist and has no products to show for months: shoddy FB announcement.
No one is doubting this isn't happening, just some of us can't understand the bubbly enthusiasm for the oncoming headlights.
How else do they do it?
They have no centralised social media, it wouldn't be appropriate for the website, because that's now "the web store" and this news isn't directly related to a new release.
The only other real option would have been via the app, and I'm guessing disseminating the info via the stores FB pages has a wider reach.
I can't understand the relentless doom mongering given the news that it's under the auspices of FW and NOT GW proper, but there you go.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Aye, epic has me if it returns, Heresy, modern 40K it doesn't matter.. been hankering for a battle with five warlords either side.. no way in hell I'm pulling that off in 40K.
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
2015/11/12 17:24:07
Subject: Re:New Games Workshop Specialist Studio - Including LOTR, Epic, BFG - Multiple stores confirming!
the_Armyman wrote: So, the things they shouldn't keep secret like new releases: one week advance notice. A new company division that doesn't even exist and has no products to show for months: shoddy FB announcement.
No one is doubting this isn't happening, just some of us can't understand the bubbly enthusiasm for the oncoming headlights.
How else do they do it?
They have no centralised social media, it wouldn't be appropriate for the website, because that's now "the web store" and this news isn't directly related to a new release.
The only other real option would have been via the app, and I'm guessing disseminating the info via the stores FB pages has a wider reach.
I can't understand the relentless doom mongering given the news that it's under the auspices of FW and NOT GW proper, but there you go.
They have multiple websites and two printed publications. You really can't think of a better way they could have announced this? Really?
Printed media has lead time. Its not instantaneous.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2015/11/12 17:29:51
Subject: New Games Workshop Specialist Studio - Including LOTR, Epic, BFG - Multiple stores confirming!
A universal release on the store facebook pages has the most reach. They do need to follow it up with announcement on the site, messages to independents, and in the white dwarf. All of that should happen but starting on the facebook pages is not a bad way to announce things with "more info to follow"
RoperPG wrote: Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
2015/11/12 17:31:31
Subject: New Games Workshop Specialist Studio - Including LOTR, Epic, BFG - Multiple stores confirming!
Ghaz wrote: Printed media has lead time. Its not instantaneous.
You don't think an announcement like this had any lead time? The CEO rolled out of bed this morning in the UK and bellowed "Specialist Games" and the Facebook admin in some Australian store heard it?
You're all entitled to be blindly giddy for the announcement. Some of us are also entitled to point out why this is likely not to turn out the way you want it to. GW's history is rife with poor-decisions and ham-fisted execution. Why do you expect this to end differently when it begins the same?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/12 17:34:26
the_Armyman wrote: So, the things they shouldn't keep secret like new releases: one week advance notice. A new company division that doesn't even exist and has no products to show for months: shoddy FB announcement.
No one is doubting this isn't happening, just some of us can't understand the bubbly enthusiasm for the oncoming headlights.
Good to see I'm not the only one who seems to be smelling a lot of bull regarding this announcement.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/11/12 17:34:24
Subject: New Games Workshop Specialist Studio - Including LOTR, Epic, BFG - Multiple stores confirming!
