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Cult Terminator Rules

A chaos space marine who has proven himself may be rewarded with terminator armour. A chaos space marine who has proven himself in the eyes of the gods may be rewarded with so much more. To represent this, a squad of terminators who are dedicated to a particular power of chaos may be dedicated further as cult terminators.

Any terminator squad with a Chaos Icon may be upgraded further to cult terminators at 2 points per model. Ignore the effects of the icon and apply the following rules below to each member of the squad.

Khorne: Fearless, +1 WS, +1 A, Furious charge. May not equip heavy flamers or reaper autocannons.

Nurgle: Fearless, +1 T, -1 I, Feel No Pain, blight grenades. May not equip reaper autocannons

Tzeetnch: Fearless, +1 to Invulnerable Save, Inferno bolts. May not equip twin lightning claws, heavy flamers or reaper autocannons. For every 5 models, 1 terminator may purchase 1 of the following psychic powers.

Doombolt: 10 points
Bolt of Change: 25 points
Winds of Chaos: 30 points

Slaanesh: Fearless, +1 I. May purchase sonic weapons

Swap combi bolter with sonic blaster: 5 points
Swap Reaper Autocannon with Blastmaster: Free

Undivided: Fearless, stubborn

Note: If the icon bearer dies, the cult upgrades do not disappear. Units may only upgrade to a cult unit that matches the icon they have purchased (example: A unit with an Icon of Khorne ugrading to khornate terminators)

Notes
I followed the design perspective followed in Codex Space Wolves and Codex Blood Angels where fancy upgrades must be paid for. I added negative downsides to each upgrade to keep in line with fluff , keep costs down and offer some strategic variety. Sure FNP nurgle terminators are awesome and durable but they are also expensive. Slaanesh terminators are cheaper and less durable but they have access to sonic weapons. There is a good mix of rules and choices here to float everyone's boat.

I decided to design the cult terminators as an "upgrade" off the icon system so these rules can easily be tacked onto the existing Chaos rules as well as allowin players to use any existing models with icons.


And now for some quick math.
5 Blood Angel Terminators with Sanguinary priest: 250 points
(Keep in mind that BA terminators are 40 points each and come with ATSKNF, combat tactics and Red thirst as standard. Sanguinary priest also provides both furious charge and feel no pain)

5 Khornate terminators: 190 points
(Keep in mind that Chaos terminators are 30 point each and come with power weapons and not power fists as standard)

5 Khornate terminators with twin lightning claws: 240 points

5 Nurgle terminators: 200 points

5 Slaanesh terminators with 5 sonic blasters: 200 points

5 Tzeentch terminators with doom bolt: 205 points

5 Undivided terminators: 170 points


Any feedback would be awesome

Edit: These rules have since been amended. Scroll down to get the latest revision of these rules.

So you give the Termies an IoK as normal they get +1 A.....then you make them khornate Termies and get FC and another +1 A.


Wouldn't that give them soemthing like 6 or 7 attacks on the charge?

Heyo,
It might be simpler to use the points values and options listed in the troops section to upgrade CSM's to Cult Marines. By which I mean, look at the points difference between a CSM and the equivalent cult marine, and apply that to each terminator, with the same benefits.

Not that I can remember off by heart for sure, but I'm pretty sure it's 5 points more for a Noise Marine than a CSM, with weapons upgrades additional. Apply the same cost and upgrades to the Cult Termies. This should make the points costs more 'transparent', since they're based on GW's decision on what those upgrades cost, and therefore opponents should be happier.

Hope that helps,
Cap'n R.

I agree with the above posts I believe that 2 points per model is not enough for the improvements you are suggesting especially the cult of Khorne, Chaos Termies are cheap enough already.

I also don't understand the reasons for precluding the Nurgle guys from the Reaper Autocannon but can completely understand why the Tzeecth models can't have heavy weapons. However generally I don't see much mileage in this idea Chaos needs a complete overhaul.

Forget overhaul. I woudl settle for legion rules and plastic obliterators......but that's for a different thread.

Plastic Obliterators yes please they are my least least favorite model to assemble.

Hi

I thought I might clear up some confusion. When you apply the cult upgrade, you essentially override the icons effect so no A4 khorne terminators or T6 nurgle terminators for you .

Ignore the effects of the icon and apply the following rules below

I decided to trial going about balancing the costs this way as you pay an arm and a leg for a chaos icon so all costs are more or less balanced (see below). Designing cult troops as an upgrade off the existing icon system, still allows players to use it if they wish. Also these rules can easily be tacked onto the chosen entry when quickly modified. I will also try to use GW costs as much as possible. The 2 points is essentially paying for the fearless bonus. When you look at the total cost of a each unit in the maths section of my post, they seem in line with 5th edition pricing standards. I am thinking about raising the point per model cost to 3-4 points. I decided to trial precluding reapers on nurgle troops to help keep their cost in line as essentially -1 I isn't a good enough drawback for FNP and +1 T without making them slow and purposeful or having a huge price hike (like how much Wolfguard terminators cost). From a fluff perspective, nurgle troops would be using some kind of toxic gas template weapon anyway and a heavy flamer makes a great counts as in this case. Also I am aware that chaos needs an overhaul but until that happens, we make do with what we've got. Any constructive criticism is welcome and appreciated.
CSM Icon Costs
Glory: 10
Slaanesh: 15
Khorne: 30
Tzeetnch: 35
Nurgle: 40

Edit: I will also propose some alternate ideas while I am at it. What about an increase in price on Terminator icons and making icons provide all of the cult bonuses above? The icon rules will also be changed to allow the bonuses to remain when the icon bearer has been killed (the squad would no longer be counted as being equipped with an icon of chaos for summoning purposes however).

Also If people prefer a flat out per model upgrade for cult terminators, would people be ok with the spending 35-40 points per cult terminator (these costs are based of the unit differences between cult troops and CSM)? Do you think that a cost per model upgrade would be priced higher as there is greater synergy with a cult terminator than a cult CSM?
Khorne: 36
Tzeetnch: 40
Slaanesh: 35
Nurgle: 40
Undivided: 35

I think it's a great idea if you have a Chaos themed army. I wouldn't use it since I'm spread out.

But I know a lot of Khorne/Nurgle people out there that would love this

/agree. A friedn of mine has just bought the FW Khorne conversion kit for his Worl Eaters and i'm bettign this woudl make him very happy indeed.

I actually purchased the FW Khorne terminator kit and Lord Zhufor myself. It is what inspired me to write these rules. I wrote these rules so that they would be as compatible as possible with both FW and CSM rules (FW stuff seems to make use of chaos icons). I will continue to listen to everyone's feedback and refine the rules even more so everyone can enjoy them further.

Once I am done with the cult terminator rules, I will design cult chosen rules in a similar vein so chaos players can finally field a proper/elite retinue of their choice.

In the case of the Khornate termies i agree with the lack of heavy weapons completely. If it was fair i would say they HAVE to be equipped with twin L-Claws! Or maybe add something to allow for twin power weapons as well.

I agree withthe points above as well. See what the difference between normal marines and 'zerkers is, then translate that onto the normal termie price, for the same bonuses (furious charge, +1A).

unfortunately 'zerkers is the only cult choice i have any experience with so i can't give an help on Noise, Plague or Rubric marines.

I did the calculations for that already in a previous post and I will repost it with some additional explanation. I rounded off the costs for Tzeetnch and Nurgle to 40 as they are really effective and slightly undercoasted. I took stab for undivided terminators and priced the fearless and stubborn bonus at +5. What do you think?

Khorne: 36
Tzeetnch: 40
Slaanesh: 35
Nurgle: 40
Undivided: 35

I think it would need to be play tested but i think that a unit of 5 Khornate Termies with Furious Charge, WS 5 and +1A, all for 180 points is an absolut bargain! Woudl you add more points for a Terminatro Skull Champion or do you think tat woudl be overkill?

Also, with the Rubric termies. Wouldn't just the Aspiring Sorcerer have Pshyker powers?

Someoen mentioned the Reaper for plague marines earlier...at the risk ofmakign things more complicated, hwo about making the Reaper a little more expensive and making the ammo poisonous so it wounds on a 2+ (woudl only matter in apoc obviously as the S7 will wound most things on a 2+ anyway).

That is what I was worried about. Applying the cost difference of cult troops does take into account the increased effectiveness of cult terminators and the cost of equivalent imperial terminators (5 BA terminator with a sanguinary priest costs 250). +6 points is a bargain for khorne terminators. I'm thinking if increasing he points for khorne terminators to +10

In terms of Tzeetnch terminators, my interpretation is that they would not be rubric terminators as why would the Tsons award terminator armour to non psychic brethren? I am treating the psychic powers as heavy weapon upgrades (1 per 5 models) but I might be cruel and make them apply to terminator champions. What do you think, 1 psychic terminator per squad or a potential of 2 per 10?

I am planning to keep champion upgrades for everyone at +10.

Edit: With nurgle terminators, I am trying to keep their cost down. My inspiration for the reaper thing was that nurgle troops don't use heavy weapons according to fluff and mainly use bolters, assault weapons and poison weapons (this is all due to their training from the Death Guard Primarch). They are trained to rely on their bolters and endurance to outlast their opponents in battle. I am trying not to make them too killy but I might steal one of the poisoned template weapons from IA7 and give that as a heavy weapon option instead of the heavy flamer.

Edit2: Here are the rules for the chem burner. Ap5, template, poisoned 3+, pinning. I'm thinking of costing it at 10 points and 1 out of every 5 nurgle terminators can purchase one.

That chem burner sounds cool. Especially as it slots nicely into the normal heavy flamer section fo the termie options.

next time i play against my World Eater friend i will see if he wants to play test those Khornate Termies. i think that, of all the ones above, they will be the most playable. If you give them all twin claws and make them champs you are looking at 7 (?) attacks on the charge!!!!

It should also be balanced as you would be paying through the nose for that combo. I will post an updated version of the rules.



Cult Terminator Rules

A chaos space marine who has proven himself may be rewarded with terminator armour. A chaos space marine who has proven himself in the eyes of the gods may be rewarded with so much more. To represent this, a squad of terminators who are dedicated to a particular power of chaos may be dedicated further as cult terminators.

Any terminator squad may upgraded to cult terminators at a cost per model.
Note: All models in the squad must be given the same cult upgrade (no mixing cult terminators). Cult terminators may not purchase an icon of chaos (it would make their statline broken) however they can purchase a personal icon (see below).

Khorne
Cost: 10 points per model
Effect: Fearless, +1 WS, +1 A, Furious charge. May not equip heavy flamers or reaper autocannons.

Nurgle
Cost: 10 points per model
Effect: Fearless, +1 T, -1 I, Feel No Pain, blight grenades. May not equip reaper autocannon or heavy flamer. For every 5 terminators, 1 model may purchase a chem burner for 10 points (Ap5, assault 1, flame template, poisoned 3+, pinning)

Tzeetnch
Cost: 10 points per model
Effect: Fearless, +1 to Invulnerable Save, Inferno bolts. May not equip twin lightning claws, heavy flamers or reaper autocannons. 1 terminator champion in the squad may purchase 1 of the following psychic powers.

Doombolt: 10 points
Bolt of Change: 25 points
Winds of Chaos: 30 points

Slaanesh
Cost: 5 points per model
Effetc: Fearless, +1 I. Any model may purchase sonic weapons

Swap combi bolter with sonic blaster: 5 points
Swap Reaper Autocannon with Blastmaster: Free

Undivided
Cost: 5 points per model
Effect: Fearless, stubborn



Additional Wargear Options
1 cult terminator may purchase a personal icon for 5 points.

Nice. Short, sweet and tidy.

if it's ok with you i mght try play testing the Khornate Termies in my next game.

That's cool with me, by all means playtest them. That's what I wrote them for. The khorne terminators should be balanced as BA have furious charge terminators as well. If any of the cult terminators were to have balance issues, I would be slightly surspicious of the tzeetnch terminators (ap3 terminators might be too good so I might have to add the rubric rules to their profile)