Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

NEW!!!

Game 2 starting soon!
____

This thread is for Team Survivor Games 2 and 3, building off the Team Survivor game 1 foundation.

Game 2 will build off the Game 1 basic ruleset, with more "RPG-like" features:
+ more Character options
+ more Character customization
+ more equipments and upgrades

Based on voting preferences, Games 2 and 3 will be themed as follows:

Game 2. Underhive - "down & dirty" teams represent a single Hive Gang or Spyrer Hunt Team

Game 3. Horus Heresy - "Epic-level" teams represent a single Heresy-era Legion, with a metagame theme of Loyalists vs Traitors
____

Open Signup has completed
____

Draft rules for Team Survivor 2

I am touting a Horus Heresy themed game based upon the conflict between the Word Bearers and the Ultramarines at Calth. In this game, there will be two sides--obviously, loyalits and traitors. There are two possible ways that this can work:

(1) We can stay true to TeamS Game One with one player = one marine.

(2) Each player can put together a small team (up to 5 or 6) and fight as part of a larger force.

I am personally more interested in trying the latter as we will not need to recruit so many players.

The current draft of the "army lists" for this type of game are as follows. (The text in green represents my first batch of edits.)


WEAPON PROFILE KEY
Each weapon has a profile written like this: D/T/R/Type
D = damage; how many hit points of damage an attack with the weapon causes
T = target; how many targets you must divide your damage among (e.g., D3/T2 means one point of damage to one targets and two points of damage to another)
R = range; how far away a weapon can inflict damage (note: R is a maximum NOT a minimum unless otherwise noted in parentheses; e.g., Missile Launcher: D3/T1/R3(2)/Physical, has a minimum range of 2)
Type = whether a weapon does Physical or Psychic damage (Psychic damage cannot be healed)

CHAOS SPACE MARINES
Team Minimum: 2, Team Maximum: 5, no identical builds allowed
+ Genetically Enhanced: all Chaos Space Marines start the game with 15 HP each
+ Treacherous: no Chaos Space Marine may serve as a Leader (except Daemon Prince); Chaos Space Marine teammates may damage one another
+ Dreadclaws: a Chaos Space Marine team may deploy via the Deep Strike rule
+ Individual Wargear: each Chaos Space Marine may choose one of the following:
- Bolter: M1 then D1/T1/R1/Physical
- Chainsword: D2/T1/R1/Physical; cannot move and attack on same turn
+ Cult Devotion: in addition to choosing Individual Wargear, each Chaos Marine may choose one of the following:
- Mark of Khorne: Chainsword becomes Chain Axe: D3/T1/R1/Physical, cannot move and attack on same turn; with Terminator Armor, Power Axe becomes Lightning Claws: D4/T2/R1/Physical, cannot move and attack on same turn
- Mark of Nurgle: you regenerate 2 HP at the beginning of your turn each round (up to a maximum of your starting HP)
- Mark of Slaanesh: Bolter becomes Sonic Blaster: Move then D2/T2/R1/Psychic
- Mark of Tzeentch: you are immune to all Psychic damage, all damage you inflict is Psychic
+ Chaos Sorcerer: if a Chaos Space Marine team consists of no more than 3 members, 1 member may choose the following (in place of other wargear) as appropriate to his Mark:
- if Nurgle, Nurgle’s Rot: D3/T3/R1/Psychic, cannot move and attack on the same turn
- if Slaanesh, Lash of Submission: M1 then D1/T1/R2/Psychic, may move the target by 1
-if Tzeentch, Bolt of Change: D2/T1/R2(2)/Psychic, cannot move and attack on the same turn
*once per game, any Chaos Sorcerer may use his turn to summon 3 Lesser Chaos Daemons that start at the Sorcerer’s current location with 2HP each and the following:
- Close Combat Weapon: D1/T1/R1/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn
+ Chaos Terminators: If a Chaos Space Marine team consists of only 3 members, any of them may start the game with 20HP each and select from the one of the following
- Power Axe: D3/T1/R1/Physical, cannot move and attack on same turn
- Heavy Flamer: D3/T3/R1/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn
+ Chosen Chaos Space Marines: if a Chaos Space Marine team consists of 5 members, they may deploy via the Infiltrate rule and have access to the following weapons (in addition those listed under Individual Wargear above):
- Heavy Bolter: D2/T1/R2(2)/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn
- Missile Launcher: D3/T1/R3(2)/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn
+ Daemon Prince: if a Chaos Space Marine team consists of at least 3 members, the first member to drop below 5HP will become a Daemon Prince at the beginning of his next turn (if he survives to his next turn); the Daemon Prince has 20 HP and becomes the Leader of his Chaos Space Marine team; depending on his original Cult Devotion choice he has the following:
- if Khorne, Bloodfeeder: D4/T1/R1/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn
- if Nurgle, Plaguebringer: D1/T1/R1/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn, target suffers D1/Physical at the beginning of the Daemon Prince’s next two turns (if the Daemon Prince survives to those turns)
- if Slaanesh, Blissgiver: M1 then D3/T2/R1/Psychic
- if Tzeentch, Deathscreamer: D3/T1/R2(2)/Psychic
*Daemon Princes lose the original benefits of their Marks; as with Leaders of other factions, there can only be one Daemon Prince per game; once the Daemon Prince has died, he drops his weapon; any Chaos Space Marine from any team may pick it up and use it in place of his former weapon and Mark

SPACE MARINES
Team Minimum: 2, Team Maximum 7, no identical builds allowed (except as Assault Squad)
+ Genetically Enhanced: all Space Marines Start the game with 15 HP
+ Drop Pods: Space Marine teams may deploy via the Deep Strike rule
+ Veteran Commander: Space Marine squads must have a Leader; the Space Marine Leader may choose from the following only:
- Power Sword: D3/T1/R1/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn
- Psychic Hood and Force Weapon: D2/T1/R1/Psychic, cannot move and attack on the same turn, immune to all Psychic damage
- Crozius Arcanum: M1 then D2/T1/R1/Psychic
+ Individual Wargear: All other Space Marines may choose one of the following:
- Bolter: M1 then D1/T1/R1/Physical
- Flamer: D2/T2/R1/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn
- Heavy Bolter: D2/T1/R2(2)/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn
- Missile Launcher: D3/T1/R3(2)/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn
- Narthecium: D1/T/1/R1/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn; may restore 1 HP to any team member at the same location (up to a maximum of their starting HP)
- Plasma Gun: M1 then D3/T1/R1/Physical, user takes D1/Physical per shot
+ Scout: if a Space Marine Team consists of 5 or more members, up to 2 members may start the game with 10 HP and the following wargear profile (but no other):
- Camo Cloak and Sniper Rifle: M1 then D3/T1/R2(2)/Physical, may only be attacked at R1
* these members may deploy independently of the rest of their team via the Scouts rule
+ Assault Squad: if a Space Marine Team has only 4 members, all non-Leader members may choose the following wargear profile (but no other):
- Jump Pack and Chainsword: M1 then D2/T1/R1/Physical
+ Terminators: if a Space Marine Team has only 3 members, all members (including the Leader) may start the game with 20 HP; non-Leader members may select one of the following wargear:
- Storm Bolter: D3/T2/R2/Physcial, cannot move and attack on the same turn
- Power Sword: D3/T1/R1/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn
+ Dreadnought: if a Space Marine consist of only 2 members, the non-Leader must start the game with 25 HP and has the following wargear profile:
- Storm Bolter: D3/T2/R2/Physcial, cannot move and attack on the same turn
as well as choice of:
- Heavy Flamer: D3/T3/R1/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn
OR
- Missile Launcher: D3/T1/R3(2)/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn
*the Dreadnought may use both weapons on each of its turns BUT its Leader may only order it to use one or the other as an extra action

I should also note that I originally designed these rules for the M41 period. John came up with the brilliant idea of setting it during the Heresy. (This is especially brilliant because it means I don't have to ponder over writing more army lists for Orks, Eldar, Tyranids, etc, etc.) I think the Battle of Calth is a good choice to "re-enact" because the Word Bearers are most probably the closest thing to M41 CSM in M35 and the Ultramarines are probably the closest thing to M41 Space Marines in M35. In addition to the rules above, there will likely be some rules for overall team leaders (Kor Phaeron and ... respectively).

Originally, I was thinking to make game 2 RPG-like and Necromunda-themed, as it's a very "pure" RPG approach when each player = 1 Ganger, and teams = Gangs. Very simple and clean. Also, I wanted to shrink the game scale down, closer to the various RPGs currently underway.
____

My comments on the Horus Heresy theme follow:

Manchu wrote:There are two possible ways that this can work:

(1) We can stay true to TeamS Game One with one player = one marine.

(2) Each player can put together a small team (up to 5 or 6) and fight as part of a larger force.

For Horus Heresy, I'd like to suggest the notion that each "Character" = 100-150 pts of Marines:
- 1 Captain, Chaplain, Librarian, or Champion
- 1 Dreadnought
- 1 Combat Squad

This maintains logical & thematic balance, while still allowing for "complex" Characters.

Manchu wrote:I should also note that I originally designed these rules for the M41 period. John came up with the brilliant idea of setting it during the Heresy. (This is especially brilliant because it means I don't have to ponder over writing more army lists for Orks, Eldar, Tyranids, etc, etc.)

I think the Battle of Calth is a good choice to "re-enact" because the Word Bearers are most probably the closest thing to M41 CSM in M35 and the Ultramarines are probably the closest thing to M41 Space Marines in M35. In addition to the rules above, there will likely be some rules for overall team leaders (Kor Phaeron and Lysimachus Cestus respectively).

As Manchu did the hard work of detailing SM & CSM, I suggested Horus Heresy to keep things simple.

I'm not particularly wedded to something as specific as Ultras vs Word Bearers, and wouldn't be adverse to setting it at the Siege of Terra.
____

Note that choosing either Horus Heresy or Necromunda merely selects which game goes first - we can easily have a 3rd game kick off shortly after game 2 starts...

What do the rest of you think?

JohnHwangDD wrote:For Horus Heresy, I'd like to suggest the notion that each "Character" = 100-150 pts of Marines:
- 1 Captain, Chaplain, Librarian, or Champion
- 1 Dreadnought
- 1 Combat Squad

I will work on re-writing the above rules with this sort of thing in mind. In the meantime, what I've already posted should give people a pretty good idea of what they'd be ultimately dealing with.

Regarding a specific Ultras v. WB battle, I'm not particularly wedded to HH, either--just as long as I don't have to come up with more rules yet!

The non ability to move and attack hurts please.

It hurts less thanks to all the ranged weaponry.

I'm just saying in the TeamS game, using the attacker ability... well shot me to flames.

@ferrett:

It's OK, live & learn. Next time, you can take Charger or something else.

Also, if you didn't jump into the hornet's nest, you wouldn't have gotten stung so badly!

Woah bejeebus, Manchu that was a lot of text. (I read the bits in green though)

Personally the idea of an Underhiver gang appeals to me, though I have never personally played Necromunda.

@EF: Necromunda's a great little game. For a box of 10 Catachans (Goliaths) or 10 Cadians (Van Saar), you can have a ton of fun.

Any idea what the rules of that kind of game might be?

For real Necroumunda? GW Specialist Games had them for download at one point.

For Team Survivor - Necromunda?

I'd start with the Team Survivor Game 1 rules pack, with the following changes:
* Stats = start with 5 wounds, not 10.
* Locations = 7+ locations on linear board from Hive to Outland; some Faction-specific rules
* Deployment = most will be assigned at start
* Actions = (1 per turn, unchanged)
* Roles = pick 2; allow stacking
* Factions = (1 Faction Role, unchanged)
* Victory = (last Faction, unchanged)
* Teams = (up to 4, unchanged)
* Signup = (1 week, unchanged)

Per your PMs, we'll reconsider Leader - right now, it's easily the least sexy of all roles, a pure support role, as designed.

Here's a cleaned-up version of two potential Squad choices for Chaos Space Marines.

In this game, each player would be responsible for picking and commanding one entire Squad in either the Traitor or the Loyalist army. The Chaos Space Marine Squad and Chosen Chaos Space Marine Squad represent two of the Squad types that Chaos players can choose from. I expect that there will ultimately be two other choices, as you can see from my first post in this thread (namely, the Chaos Sorcerer Squad and the Chaos Terminator Squad). I will also be cleaning up the Space Marine Squad choices if anyone shows interest in this type of game but will likely stick with the following: Space Marine Tactical Squad, Assault Marine Squad, Terminator Squad, and Dreadnought.

------------------------

CHAOS SPACE MARINES

Chaos Space Marine Squad

consists of 5 Chaos Space Marines who start the game with 10 HP each

Wargear: each Chaos Space Marine must choose one of the following:
- Bolter: M1 then D1/R1/T1/Physical
- Chainsword: D2/R1/T1/Physical

Cult Devotion: each Chosen Chaos Space Marine must choose one of the following:
- Mark of Khorne: Chainsword becomes Chain Axe: D3/T1/R1/Physical
- Mark of Nurgle: heals 2 HP at the beginning of his turn
- Mark of Slaanesh: Bolter becomes Sonic Blaster: Move then D2/T2/R1/Psychic
- Mark of Tzeentch: immune to Psychic damage; all damage inflicted is Psychic

Dreadclaws: a Chaos Space Marine Squad may deploy via the Deep Strike rule

Fleshgate: the first Chaos Space Marine in the squad to drop below 3HP will transform into a
Greater Daemon (see below for stats) at the beginning of his next turn if he survives until he next turn


Chosen Chaos Space Marine Squad

consists of 4 Chosen Chaos Space Marines who start the game with 10 HP each

Treacherous Sacrifice: Chosen Chaos Space Marine Squadmates may damage one another

Arrogance of the Exalted: No two Chosen Chaos Space Marine Squadmates may have the same build

Wargear: each Chaos Space Marine must choose one of the following:
- Bolter: M1 then D1/R1/T1/Physical
- Chainsword: D2/R1/T1/Physical
- Heavy Bolter: D2/T1/R2(2), cannot move and attack on the same turn
- Missile Launcher: D3/T1/R3(2), cannot move and attack on the same turn

Cult Devotion: each Chosen Chaos Space Marine must choose one of the following:
- Mark of Khorne: Chainsword becomes Chain Axe: D3/T1/R1/Physical
- Mark of Nurgle: heals 2 HP at the beginning of his turn
- Mark of Slaanesh: Bolter becomes Sonic Blaster: Move then D2/T2/R1/Psychic; Heavy Bolter or
Missile Launcher become Blastmaster: D2/T1/R2(2)/Psychic, cannot move and attack on the same turn
- Mark of Tzeentch: immune to Psychic damage; all damage inflicted is Psychic

Deceptive Strike: a Chosen Chaos Space Marine Squad may deploy via the Infiltrate rule

Fleshgate: the first Chosen Chaos Space Marine in the squad to drop below 3HP will transform
into a Greater Daemon (see below for stats) at the beginning of his next turn if he survives until he next turn


Greater Daemon

the Greater Daemon is not a Squad choice; Chaos Space Marines have a chance of becoming a Greater
Daemon (as per the Fleshgate rule above) the Greater Daemon appears in the game with 20 HP

Daemonic Weapon: depending on the Mark of the transformed Chaos Marine, the Greater deamon will appear with the following:
- if Khorne, Bloodletter: D4/T1/R1/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn
- if Nurgle,, Plaguebeaer: D1/T1/R1/Physical, cannot move and attack on the same turn
- if Slaanesh, Blissgiver: D3/T2/R1/Psychic then M1
- if Tzeentch, Deathscreamer: D3/T1/R2(2)/Psychic, cannot move and attack on the same turn

Daemonic Majesty: the Greater Daemon acts as a Leader to its squad; a Greater Daemon will only appear in a given squad once per game

Daemonic Legacy: once the Greater Daemon is slain, it drops its Daemonic Weapon; any Chaos Marine can take his entire turn
to pick up the Daemonic Weapon, which replaces BOTH his current weapon and the benefits of his Mark; the Chaos Marine drops the
Daemonic Weapon when he is slain but another Chaos Marine can spend his entire turn to pick it up, and so on; none may ever
voluntarily abandon the weapon; a Chaos Marine wielding a Daemonic Weapon cannot transform into Greater Daemon; any Space Marine
may spend his entire turn destroying (but never picking up) a Daemonic Weapon after it is dropped and before it is picked up by a Chaos Marine

------------------------

I would appreciate any comments.

Oh, and here are some rough draft vehicle rules:

Vehicles

Each side has Requisition Points (RP) equal to the number of opponent Squads.

RP can be spent on vehicles.

All vehicles can carry more than one Marine. All vehicles require at least one Marine to drive them. If a vehicle is destroyed while Marines are aboard, the Marine with the least HP is killed. The wreck of the vehicle converts the location into difficult terrain, making it harder for other vehicles to traverse. Note that embarking and disembarking Marines are not considered “aboard” for the purpose of movement or weapons fire. Thus, an empty vehicle can only be driven or fire any of its weapons on the turn after it is boarded. Empty vehicles can be captured and used by anyone.

Predator (2 RP)
+ starts the game with 25HP
+ as long as at least one Marine is aboard, the Predator can move up to 1 space per turn
+ as long as at least one Marine is aboard, the Predator can fire its main weapon
- Autocannon: D4/T1/R3(2)/Physical
+ if two Marines are aboard, the Predator can fire both of its two sponson-mounted Heavy Bolters in addition to its main weapon
- Heavy Bolter: D2/T1/R2(2)/Physical
+ the Predator may only carry two Marines at any time

Rhino (1 RP)
+ Starts the game with 20HP
+ as long as at least one Marine is aboard, the Rhino can move up to 3 spaces in one direction per turn
+ the Rhino must stop as soon as it enters difficult terrain
+ Within the limits of its carrying capacity, any number of Marines may embark or disembark the Rhino at any point during the its movement
+ As long as at least one Marine is aboard, the Rhino may fire its weapon while moving at any point during its movement:
- Storm Bolter: D3/T2/R2/Physcial
+ Can carry up to five Marines (embarked Marines must all be from the same squad)
+ Cannot carry a Greater Daemon, Chaos Terminators, Terminators, or Assault Marines

Emperors Faithful wrote:Woah bejeebus, Manchu that was a lot of text. (I read the bits in green though)

I hope those cleaned up formats help you take a closer look.

It's interesting how differently Manchu and I approach this kind of thing.

I would do Horus Heresy like this:

Common
* Captain (Leader)
* Champion (Attacker)
* Dreadnought (Tank)
* Veterans (Fighter)

Loyalist
* Chaplain (Healer)
NO Devourer / Raider

Traitor
* Daemon Prince (Devourer)
NO Medic / Healer

etc.

Pick a Type, and 2 more abilities (I'd reword to support doubling and stacking),

Then I'd let the Abilities define the item: e.g. Sniper (+1R), Sniper (+1R) & Attacker (+1A) = R2 A2 = Lascannon.

You put a lot of work into it.

Manchu wrote:Here's a cleaned-up version of two potential Squad choices for Chaos Space Marines.

In this game, each player would be responsible for picking and commanding one entire Squad in either the Traitor or the Loyalist army. The Chaos Space Marine Squad and Chosen Chaos Space Marine Squad represent two of the Squad types that Chaos players can choose from. I expect that there will ultimately be two other choices, as you can see from my first post in this thread (namely, the Chaos Sorcerer Squad and the Chaos Terminator Squad). I will also be cleaning up the Space Marine Squad choices if anyone shows interest in this type of game but will likely stick with the following: Space Marine Tactical Squad, Assault Marine Squad, Terminator Squad, and Dreadnought.

------------------------

I would appreciate any comments.

1 player = 1 squad
1 squad acts at once, aiming at the same target?

Manchu wrote:Oh, and here are some rough draft vehicle rules:

Vehicles

Each side has Requisition Points (RP) equal to the number of opponent Squads.

RP can be spent on vehicles.

All vehicles can carry more than one Marine. All vehicles require at least one Marine to drive them. If a vehicle is destroyed while Marines are aboard, the Marine with the least HP is killed. The wreck of the vehicle converts the location into difficult terrain, making it harder for other vehicles to traverse. Note that embarking and disembarking Marines are not considered “aboard” for the purpose of movement or weapons fire. Thus, an empty vehicle can only be driven or fire any of its weapons on the turn after it is boarded. Empty vehicles can be captured and used by anyone.

Predator (2 RP)
+ starts the game with 25HP
+ as long as at least one Marine is aboard, the Predator can move up to 1 space per turn
+ as long as at least one Marine is aboard, the Predator can fire its main weapon
- Autocannon: D4/T1/R3(2)/Physical
+ if two Marines are aboard, the Predator can fire both of its two sponson-mounted Heavy Bolters in addition to its main weapon
- Heavy Bolter: D2/T1/R2(2)/Physical
+ the Predator may only carry two Marines at any time

Rhino (1 RP)
+ Starts the game with 20HP
+ as long as at least one Marine is aboard, the Rhino can move up to 3 spaces in one direction per turn
+ the Rhino must stop as soon as it enters difficult terrain
+ Within the limits of its carrying capacity, any number of Marines may embark or disembark the Rhino at any point during the its movement
+ As long as at least one Marine is aboard, the Rhino may fire its weapon while moving at any point during its movement:
- Storm Bolter: D3/T2/R2/Physcial
+ Can carry up to five Marines (embarked Marines must all be from the same squad)
+ Cannot carry a Greater Daemon, Chaos Terminators, Terminators, or Assault Marines

-How does the predator treat difficult terrain?
-why is a stormbolter superior to a heavy bolter? ( D3 vs D2, T2/T2, R2/R2 (2) ).
-sponsons are 2 weapons?
-how do you split marines from their squad to enter a predator?

1hadhq wrote:1 player = 1 squad
1 squad acts at once, aiming at the same target?

No, unlike in 40k Squads could actually split their fire (so a Marine/Vehicle/etc shoots at other individual Marines/Vehicles/etc).

-How does the predator treat difficult terrain?

It is slow enough for difficult terrain not to affect it. Difficult terrain is meant to be a problem for troop transports.

-why is a stormbolter superior to a heavy bolter? ( D3 vs D2, T2/T2, R2/R2 (2) ).

Good catch. Storm bolters should probably be D2/T2/R1 and Heavy Bolters should stay D2/T2/R2(2). Something to keep in mind is where these things can go. SM Tac Squads can begin play with an HB but never a SB. Conversely, Termies can start with a SB but never an HB.

-sponsons are 2 weapons?

Yes. Basically, one Marine is driving and firing the main weapon. The other Marine can control each sponson independently. The Predator is a vehicle but it's main purpose is not to move Marines around. It's actually a force-multiplier: two Marines firing three weapons per turn.

-how do you split marines from their squad to enter a predator?

My current idea for a "unit cohesion" type rule is that all of a Squad's members must always be in one space. If any Marine is knocked out of that space (by Lash of Submission, for example), his next action MUST be to get back into that space. (If the Marine in question has wargear that let's him move and attack [like a bolter], he can use his action with that wargear--just as long as he gets back into cohesion on his next turn.) You'll notice that this means that the two Marines driving the Pred have to be in the same space as the rest of their Squad--so the footslogging Squad cannot march off in one direction while the Pred drives off in another.

I see.

There is unit coherency and requested vehicles are part of it.
A transport could use its movement fully if every squad member is embarked but has to roll behind the squad if the squad footslogs.

-the footsloggin members ignore difficult terrain?
-if a squad is unharmed and consists of troopers of identical wounds, is the choice of the player whom to remove if the vehicle
explodes?

-disembark is a move right? Ability to attack at the move would allow to disembark and attack?

-no firing point ( cant attack if embarked ) with rhinos?

JohnHwangDD wrote:It's interesting how differently Manchu and I approach this kind of thing.

As I've commented before, a simple game is easy to learn and teach but can be quickly mastered and forgotten. Complicated games are more satisfying to explore but harder to start. The trick is finding a good balance. I' expect the ideas I've posted so far in this thread to come to naught in and of themselves. Given what I've seen in StratS and TeamS, getting players to keep up with a board where each one has up to five or six characters, each with different abilities, and then trying to make that aspect interactive with the board itself . . . is asking a lot, to put it mildly. But I'm keen on driving the basic Survivor mechanic further toward that balance between depth and ease of play. Consider the work I've done here to be a continuing challenge to that end.

As for all this voting for Necromunda: I'm skeptical that many people are familiar enough with that aspect of the 40k universe to get as involved as they would with more iconic aspects, like having the chance to play as a devestatingly-effective Space Marine from your favorite Chapter or getting to drive around a Leman Russ tank (yes, those sorts of things should be development goals). So for those who said they'd prefer Necromunda (John aside), please post why and what you'd expect from it.

A transport could use its movement fully if every squad member is embarked but has to roll behind the squad if the squad footslogs.

A transport that cannot move effectively because it is not carrying an entire squad is a transport wasted--except if a badly wounded Marine is simply using it for cover!

-the footsloggin members ignore difficult terrain?

Nothing that walks would move fast enough to deal with difficult terrain.

-if a squad is unharmed and consists of troopers of identical wounds, is the choice of the player whom to remove if the vehicle explodes?

It would be the choice of the player who destroyed the vehicle rather than the player who lost the Marine.

-disembark is a move right? Ability to attack at the move would allow to disembark and attack?

Embark/Disembark would be a kind of special "quick" action that players could take in addition to their normal action--but obviously they could only take one such "quick" action per turn (no hopping in and out of vehicle on the same turn). Also, driving and firing vehicle weapons count as the Vehicle's actions and NOT as the actions of the Marines who are driving and firing vehicle weapons. So, for example, say a Tac squad of 4 Marines all armed with bolters is embarked on a Rhino three spaces away from a squad of Chaos Space Marines. Barring difficult terrain, the SM could drive their Rhino right up into the Chaos Marines, fire at them with the Rhino's SB, disembark the Rhino, and then fire at them with their bolters. They could also drive the Rhino toward the CSM and use the SB on any enemies along the way THEN stop one space away from the CSM, disembark, footslog into the CSM's space and attack (thanks to the bolter's profile). As you might guess by now, the board would have a lot of cover!

I want to play Necromunda to learn some more details so I can play my DH Scum better.

Manchu wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:It's interesting how differently Manchu and I approach this kind of thing.

As I've commented before, a simple game is easy to learn and teach but can be quickly mastered and forgotten. Complicated games are more satisfying to explore but harder to start. The trick is finding a good balance.

I expect the ideas I've posted so far in this thread to come to naught in and of themselves.

Given what I've seen in StratS and TeamS, getting players to keep up with a board where each one has up to five or six characters, each with different abilities, and then trying to make that aspect interactive with the board itself . . . is asking a lot, to put it mildly.

But I'm keen on driving the basic Survivor mechanic further toward that balance between depth and ease of play. Consider the work I've done here to be a continuing challenge to that end.


As for all this voting for Necromunda: I'm skeptical that many people are familiar enough with that aspect of the 40k universe

Interestingly, I tried pretty hard to keep it as simple as possible, while still retaining all features. I'm quite satisfied with how it's playing.

Assuming we go with a Heresy game, we'lll see how much keep / revise / rework.

As we see with some of the questions in Team Surv 1, complexity is very close to "high enough" already,

I'm thinking more complexity isn't necessarily needed.


Necromunda is essentially human, which everybody can identify with. It's a good game, and not a problem if we do that first, with Heresy second. My sense is, if you want to do Heresy with many of the features and elements you proposed, a 2nd warm-up game is probably a good idea.

Current voting is 4 Necromunda vs 2 Horus Heresy

Given that Horus Heresy will be more complex and require more development, I'm thinking as follows:

Game 2 = Necromunda

low(er)-power, RPG-like approach for fragile, desperate gangers trying to survive in the depths of the Underhive

(rules generally as above)
total of 3 Role Abilities, may stack and double; less restrictions


Game 3 = Horus Heresy

high-power / Munchy ubermen fighting the most brutal of battles

(rules generally as above)
total of 4 Role Abilities, may multi-stack and double; minimal restrictions


What do you think?

I'm down. Let's start developing Necromunda.

You guys mind if I hop in on this one too? I like the simpler Necromunda idea before more complex HH one just to get a feel for the more RPGish thing and it also gives Manchu more time too make his outline even smoother Have to admit it looks really interesting as is

We'd love to have you, Ubi!

I'll have draft rules up tomorrow.

Sorry, guys, I wasn't able to get the draft rules up before heading out on vacation. We'll have more on this next week.

Sorry for the delay, what with having less time to do Dakka while on vacation & all...

Anyhow, I've had some time to think about a Necroumunda game, and this is what I'm going to propose as a draft ruleset:

Team Survivor 2 - Hinterhive 202 Rules

Team Survivor (TS) is a "Survivor" variant that focuses on team play, rather than individual "Last Man Standing" play. Similar to multi-player games of "Necroumunda", the objective is to have one's team of Gangers become the sole surviving Gang on the board. Teammates will need to work together to assist their Gang, working to destroy enemy Gangs.


Stats
Individual Characters start with 5 Hits, and may lose effectiveness:

3+ Hits remaining = all actions allowed (basic, simple, doubled & stacked);
2 Hits remaining = no doubled or stacked actions until restored to 3+ hits (basic & simple actions only);
1 Hit remaining = no special actions until restored to 2+ (basic only);
0 Hits remaining = dead; remove from game!


Locations
The Board will have at least 7 Locations, depending on the number of players and factions.

Locations are in a Ring, and the ends connect.

Deployment
Teams will deploy as a group into a single location, and may subsequently move to separate locations.

Some Factions will have special deployment rules or restrictions:

Infiltrate (In) - Team starts in Reserve, Leader may select any location to deploy into on Day 2

Units "In Reserve" may not take any actions until moved to a regular location.


Actions
Players may take 1 action per calendar day. Basic actions are:

Move (M) - to any adjacent location
Attack (A) - 1 hit on any target in same location

Days start and end at midnight Zulu Time (GMT) / 5:00 pm CA / 8:00 pm NY

If a player does not take their action before 10pm GMT, their Team Leader may make a basic action (Move 1 or Attack 1) on their behalf, and this will count as their action for the day.


Abilities
Each player may select from several special abilities:

Leader (L) - may order one teammate in the same location take an extra action

Attacker (A) - may Attack at +1
Charger (C) - may Move, then Attack
Fighter (F) - may Attack, then Attack against a *different* target
Raider (R) - may Attack, then Move
Sniper (S) - may Attack an adjacent location

Devourer (D) - may Attack, then restore 1 Hit to self if below 5
Healer (H) - may Move, then restore 1 Hit to self if below 5
Medic (M) - may restore 1 Hit to any unit below 5

Psyker (P) - may take 1 Hit to self, then Attack one target for up to 3 Hits
Blitzer (B) - may Move 2

The above actions are considered "simple" actions.

Leader
Leader is dependent upon the other teammates in the location; if there are no other teammates present, the Leader ability cannot be used.

Fighter
Similarly, Fighter is dependent upon having additional targets in the location; if there are no additional targets present, the Fighter ability cannot be used.

Healer & Medic
Healers and Medics, along with Devourer must have at least 2 to restore hits, just like any other special ability.


Doubled & Stacked Abilities
Special abilities *may* be doubled or stacked, and count as a separate, new ability. Examples of doubled abilities are as follows:

Leader! (L!) - may order up to 2 *different* teammates in the same location to each take an extra action

Attacker! (A!) - may Attack at +2
Fighter! (F!) - may Attack, then Attack against 2 additional, *different* targets

Devourer! (D!) - may Attack, then restore up to 2 Hits to self if below 5
Healer! (H!) - may Move, then restore up to 2 Hits to self if below 5
Medic! (M!) - may restore up to 2 Hits to any unit below 5

Psyker! (P!) - may take 2 Hits to self, then Attack one target for up to 5 Hits
Blitzer! (B!) - may Move 3

Stacking of different abilities may also be possible. For example, an Attacker (+1A) / Charger (M&A) would gain a combined Charging Attack (M1&A2).


Gangs
Gangs battle for supremacy amongst the outlaws, scavengers and mutants in the depths of the dark, dangerous Underhive - for each victory grants another day of survival.

Each player belongs to a Gang of 3 to 5 teammates, one must be the Leader. Each Ganger may select one of the following roles:

1 Leader (Lead) - The Leader has the Leader ability, and may not select Devourer or Psyker abilities.
0-2 Heavy (Hvy) - All Heavies have Attacker, and may not select Leader, Medic, Devourer or Psyker abilities
Ganger (Gang) - All Gangers have Fighter; may not select Leader, Devourer or Psyker abilities; and may not double or stack Attacker abilities
0-1 Wyrd - All Wyrds have Psyker, and may not select Leader, Sniper, Medic or Blitzer abilities

In addition to any ability conferred by their role, each Gang member may select up to 2 additional abilities (total of 3), subject to any Role-related restrictions

If the Leader dies, any non-Wyrd may change their Role to Leader, giving up their previous Role (and it's conferred ability).


0-1 Spyre Hunt Team
Spyrers are the feared killers of the night, whispered and rumored as murderous ghosts amongst Hive Gangers. In actuality, Spyrers are Young Nobility from the Upper Hive in ultratech battlesuits testing their individual and collective mettle in the Underhive.

There may be no more than 1 Spyre Hunt Team in the game.
A Spyre Hunt Team consists of 2 or 3 Spyre Hunters.
A Spyre Hunt Team has NO Leader, and Spyrers may *not* select the Leader ability.
All Spyrers start with 10 hits, and Spryers may *not* select the Medic ability.
All Spyrers have the Attacker ability, and may select 2 additional abilities subject to the restrictions above.
Spryers Infiltrate onto the board any time on Day 2


NPCs
NPCs start at 5 hits, and their action for the day may be directed any member of the team in their location at any time.

If an NPC is ever "abandoned" by its team, it must use it's action to Move to the closest teammate at its earliest opportunity.


Monster
Monsters start at 5 or 10 hits, and follow a fixed pattern of behavior:
. If 3 or more Hits, Attack 1st character entering location, else Attack weakest character
. If less than 3 Hits, Devour weakest character
. *never* Moves

If a Monster has not acted for the day, any player may have it act for the day, following the behavior rules above.


Relics
Relics may be picked up or transferred to another player as an action; if the current owner dies, their killer automatically gets any Relic(s).


Victory!
When only one Team remains, they are victorious, and the game is over.


Game Board & Locations
(tbd)


Questions, comments, feedback, or suggestions? Please post them, and I'll do my best to address them for you.