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The Core box is *multiple* Major Expansions and Encounters. For costs purposes, I'd pull the Phoenix out and make it an expansion. That pulls a whole bunch of sprues out for a potentially much smaller box.

That was actually my thought too as it'd leave you with the Lion and the Antelope as huntable monsters, plus their difficulty levels means that's 8 potential fights if you include the "legendary" ones. That leaves the King's Hand, Kingsmen, Butcher and Watcher in the box, which leaves us with 2 Nemesis monsters for every huntable one which just seems a bit...odd.

I like the idea of shortening the campaign though; yank the King's Hand and Watcher, have the Kingsmen as the interlude nemesis and Butcher as the final big-bad of a 15 year campaign and that might work out pretty well (ignoring that you'd have to adjust the core rulebook some). 2 huntable monsters, 2 Nemesis and a 30%-ish reduction in content that has to go into the box. Not sure it really drops the price a ton though.

The Phoenix is a $125-150 expansion, so $400 becomes $250.

Phoenix has less content and fewer sprues than the spidicules, so, more like $100.

I'm not sure that's how the pricing would work out. I don't disagree the Phoenix would be that much as an expansion, I just think it would only drop the core box to the $300-$325 range (added packing, added SKU, reworked rulebook, etc.). There's still 6 monsters (if we're not dropping anything else), 6 armor kits, and 4 starting survivors in the model realm. Plus only 87 fewer "big" cards (the number of gear cards tied to the Phoenix eludes me) compared to the full-fat version.

Taking out the Phoenix and armor kits is a big subtraction, but I don't think it's a 30%+ deduction from the cost.

any changes are going to add costs and complexity (plus the game DID sell well as a $400 box)

so I think he'll stick with the game as is

but perhaps add in some expansions like the ring tailed fox etc that work is already in progress on and so 'pay' for them via KS

While it did sell out at $400, the current configuration is that of a one-shot. That is, it is so expensive to produce, that he cannot afford to restock it out of ongoing sales. That means that the product configuration needs to be redone as something that he can make 5,000 units of semi-economically.

Or, it needs to be repriced at $500+ to be producible in lots of 1,000 (or whatever the next smallest increment might be).

Further, the plug-and-play nature of Monsters suggests that having to pay $150-ish for the Phoenix, when you're really have wanted Spicidules or Gorm or Sunstalker?

Rework the Core as the first 10 years for $200-250. Split off the Watcher & Lantern Armor for $75-100. Split off the Phoenix and it armor for $125-150. Now, all of those pieces are easier to restock without needing to resort to Kickstarter.


Alternately, do biannual Kickstarters and only produce the core game as part of that event. Not a bad way to go there, either BTW.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Alternately, do biannual Kickstarters and only produce the core game as part of that event. Not a bad way to go there, either BTW.

Would you believe I almost said "Assuming KS let's him list an existing product under the guidelines"? Then I remembered how much they actually enforce those guidelines (why hello there PB!) and that it's really just about their 10% and had a good laugh. Figured I'd share.

I suppose we'll see what ideas Adam has for this; I doubt he's going to leave it completely unchanged.

Keep in mind, several of the costs associated with the original production are not a part of any new production. The model molds are done. The art is done. Those costs are already paid.

Certainly he couldn't (or didn't want to) afford a restock without another KS, but then the last one cost at least $700K more than it took in (and that's not including the 50% of the shipping cost for the expansions to KS backers that he paid, or the continuing costs of Lantern Festival development

I strongly suspect if he's not spend that making extra content he'd have been able to restock and have a decent chunk of change for the business

There's a LOT of HQ paper in the box, the box itself is quite luxurious and thus pricey. All those sprues aren't free either, so it needs a decent runs as well, which adds to the costs.

As others have noted, the original KS cost more then was raised, that money had to come from somewhere. I don't see the box as it is now to get any cheaper, if it was, then there would be a war with the initial backers.

We could see (some) new expansions, as the infrastructure is already in place to do so. I would love to see a plastic Wet Nurse and more plastic Pinups...

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Keep in mind, several of the costs associated with the original production are not a part of any new production. The model molds are done. The art is done. Those costs are already paid.

True, but it also looks like he vastly underestimated much of the original costs tied to development, production and delivery. Especially considering the final request for additional shipping funds. I think he might barely have broken even on ALL Kingdom Death project as of earlier this year, with profits from non-KS resin etc offsetting unexpected cost on the KD:M KS product. At some point, I think he wants to recoup things to drive a level of profit across all product lines.

Unexpected cost?

You mean, him rejecting and redesigning certain aspects of the game until it fit his vision perfectly, right?

That and adding probably 30% more stuff than he had originally considered.

 BrookM wrote:
Unexpected cost?

You mean, him rejecting and redesigning certain aspects of the game until it fit his vision perfectly, right?

Yeah... as someone else who's worked on (much smaller) creative projects like that and who's also a perfectionist, I have a ton of empathy, but that doesn't mean sympathy.

It's great that he chose to pursue his creative vision, even at the cost of profit or potentially even breaking even (IDK), but, at the end of that day, those were his choices and his actions. If he made them intentionally, more power to him. If he made them in ignorance, he has himself or whoever did his finances to blame.

This isn't my first artisté rodeo, I've also sat through the first Raging Heroes KS.

Yeah, KD:M exemplifies boutique gaming, and my friends and I see it as the Sistine Chapel of board games.

Does anyone have any idea yet when this new KS is supposed to happen? So much stuff is coming out this year and I only have so much money to throw at things. Particularly after grabbing my big titan.

 Gamgee wrote:
Does anyone have any idea yet when this new KS is supposed to happen? So much stuff is coming out this year and I only have so much money to throw at things. Particularly after grabbing my big titan.

Black Friday / Thanksgiving (USA) i.e. end of November.

Black Friday, November 25th. The original KS ran to January 7th but I don't think he'll run it that long again. As far as I can recall it started at midnight EST (EDIT yep I have a backers email at 4:59 AM GMT).

CORE RULE BOOK WITH NO ART
CORE RULE BOOK WITH NO ART

If we could get a condensed rule book I would back the next KS to wait 6.3 years to get it.
This current long floppy rule book that I am required to flip through like I have ADHD is getting so annoying.

Also anyway to make the game not so long would be great. Its really hard for me to talk people into a board game that takes this long, and then trying to talk them into it again to do a sunstalker or Dragon God campaign.

No...

HARDBACK RULEBOOK WITH RIBBONS!
HARDBACK RULEBOOK WITH RIBBONS!

The rulebook is the only non-premium component the player must have.

Thanks for the info. Why did it have to be November. That's video game prime time. It all depends on the cost effectiveness to get a core. If it's at the same price as the original KS or I hope against all odds cheaper than I'll try my best. I might end up going in halfers with a friend.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I wonder if this KS will also fund some good instruction manuals for the kits.

Ha!

Yeah, despite a very enjoyable game/minis set and good customer service, a bit miffed by the continued lack of instructions, since not everyone's experienced at building and the fan guides aren't always accurate.

What I'm actually hoping for is some nice stretch goals for new baddies. Specifically, new bosses and low-level baddies. I think the game has more than enough big bad monsters for the later half of the game, but more variety early would be very nice, and I think the Watcher is kind of a chump.

Yeah even their proposed sister site gets things wrong, it takes a lot of searching on the web to get your mini's correctly assembled.

How about a digital rulebook?

A well done digital rulebook would be an instant add. Either that, or a deck of larger format cards that covered all the event charts and setup instead of the books.

Digital or hardback, just make it with out all the art. Package that and sell it separately.

Without artwork really? really?

I think you fundamentally misunderstand what KDM is.

 Gamgee wrote:
Thanks for the info. Why did it have to be November. That's video game prime time. It all depends on the cost effectiveness to get a core. If it's at the same price as the original KS or I hope against all odds cheaper than I'll try my best. I might end up going in halfers with a friend.

Considering the original KS core game pledge level was $100 versus the final retail of $400...if the reprint ends up being $300 I think we'll be *very* lucky.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Without artwork really? really?

I think you fundamentally misunderstand what KDM is.

The art work is great, but it does nothing for the pace of the game. It should be pulled out and the rules condensed. Then pack the art in a separate book to fawn over. Some photos make sense, most serve no purpose.