Battlefoam sends C&D letter to SABOL.

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**Aduro**

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2010/08/31/38873

**BrookM**

**Gavin Thorne**

Details for those of use with work filters?

**Jackal**

Work friendly one:

We received this “letter” last on 8-30-2010 from Battlefoam’s attorney. I wonder if it was also sent to the entire foam cutting industry, which would include the hundreds of companies listed on the Thomas Register in the foam cutting industry that has existed for more years than Romeo has been alive. Since we do not laser cut foam at all, I find this stunning. I understand patent applications very well as discussed by others many times on this board. I understand also, what is patentable and what is not. How do I know this?

Take a look at over 100 patents that have been in my family for over 50 years. Google ” Jack J. Gilbert”, my father. He invented and patented some of the world’s most innovative products that include, Mr. Coffee, the Electric Knife, Slicing Machines, Hand Held Steam Cleaner, The Switch to turn on and off traffic lights, Blood Serum Analyzer, Microfiche Reader, Mail Sorting Equipment and the list goes on an on. I take personal offense for such a ludicrous letter that was sent to my company.

Denise Haynes
Co-Owner
Sabol Designs, Inc.

**Aduro**

We received this “letter” last on 8-30-2010 from Battlefoam’s attorney. I wonder if it was also sent to the entire foam cutting industry, which would include the hundreds of companies listed on the Thomas Register in the foam cutting industry that has existed for more years than Romeo has been alive. Since we do not laser cut foam at all, I find this stunning. I understand patent applications very well as discussed by others many times on this board. I understand also, what is patentable and what is not. How do I know this?

Take a look at over 100 patents that have been in my family for over 50 years. Google ” Jack J. Gilbert”, my father. He invented and patented some of the world’s most innovative products that include, Mr. Coffee, the Electric Knife, Slicing Machines, Hand Held Steam Cleaner, The Switch to turn on and off traffic lights, Blood Serum Analyzer, Microfiche Reader, Mail Sorting Equipment and the list goes on an on. I take personal offense for such a ludicrous letter that was sent to my company.

Denise Haynes
Co-Owner
Sabol Designs, Inc.

**oni**

Alright everyone, lets nerd rage out of control and over react like every asshat who commented on TGN before we know all the facts.

Nerd rage fail, in 3... 2... 1... GO!

**Gwar!**

OMGFTFBQQ THIS UIS OUTARGISU AIM SO MAD RIGHT NAO!!!!!!

In all seriousness, it's a bit of a Bleh moment. Battlefoam are overpriced, and I seriously doubt this has any legitimacy, considering Sabol were there first.

**Jackal**

Oni - Hence why i just posted it for people to read at work.

C&D's are not my buisness as i know little about the basis or any facts involved

Dont shoot the messenger lol.

**generalgrog**

So the complaint is for using/selling foam cut by outrider hobbies? I thought Sabol were cutting foam long before outrider or battlefoam was around?

I'm a bit confused.

GG

**NAVARRO**

Dont understand this... cease and desist of what?

**Mr Mystery**

Erm...being competition?

I dunno?

**porkuslime**

Is this claiming that Sabol is re-selling the foam trays that Outrider is making? Didn't Outrider kinda win the original lawsuit (maybe it was thrown out?)

-P

**agnosto**

Umm Battlefoam is off their rockers? I knew about the Outrider spat since they used the word "foam" in their product but how this relates to Sabol is beyond me.

Outrider's website had this on the front page:
"Outrider Hobbies is not affiliated with Sabol Designs or the Army Transport brand."
http://outriderhobbies.com/

So unless I'm missing something and Sabol owns some or part of Outrider, it's a pointless letter.

**Vertrucio**

Romeo should realize that blanket legal actions like this will turn people away from his product, even despite the "any press is press" deal.

If your product is good, you won't need this kind of legal action.

I fully support a company to protect its business legally, but this is way too much.

**Jackal**

Romeo should realize that blanket legal actions like this will turn people away from his product, even despite the "any press is press" deal.

Yet with the endless C&C's GW sends out it doesent even dent thier proffit.
Dont want to start an argument, but thought it was a slightly valid point.
A few things like this dont really do much to a well established company.

**BrookM**

I'm guessing he took a page from GW and started with the ceasing and desisting as well, only in an attempt to one-up GW he's going after the competition directly and not through fan sites.

**Polonius**

If you read the letter, it's actually not a C&D. It's asking them to do something very specific: track the sales of FOAM CORPS products, and any other infringing products.

I don't know anything about IP practice, but it could mostly be a "notice" letter telling Sabol that if they start laser cutting foam, they need to document it so they can pay royalties.

It's a weird way to do it, and maybe they're trying to scare competition, but the letter never mentions sabols products.

**RiTides**

I think Polonius is right- it's talking about them selling Foam Corps products, not the ones that Sabol makes themselves.

I don't think you can patent cutting foam into custom shapes, though... if you could, you'd need to stop all manner of people from doing it (which is what I think the Sabol co-owner is referring to in his post that someone quoted) on the Thomas Register.

I assume battlefoam is only trying to patent it for this application (miniatures storage in custom cases) but I also don't think that is "patentable"... but regardless of all that, he's clearly going about it in an unfortunate manner.

Another straw making me lean towards Sabol, not Battlefoam, since I'd be storing my models magnetized to their movement trays, anyway, and so the extra space saved from the custom cutting isn't as important... and costs an arm and a leg, too!

**JohnHwangDD**

generalgrog wrote:So the complaint is for using/selling foam cut by outrider hobbies? I thought Sabol were cutting foam long before outrider or battlefoam was around?

Apparently, after losing the foam wars, Battlefoam copying Sabol copying GW copying Chessex figure cases now means Battlefoam somehow invented the entire concept of foam figure cases?

I'd like to see the outrage mustered against GW when the C&D a website turned against Battlefoam.

**LucasLAD**

I'm really hoping that Romeo did this due to an ill advisement from a greedy legal team or an uninformed business development team.

In a market that thrives on the internet such as the wargaming community this is the equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot, especially with all of the C&Ds from GW floating around and pissing people off.

I'd love to hear the explanation as to why this was done and the reasoning. Unlike GW, Battlefoam does not OWN the market on their product, they are only a small part of it.

**Scottywan82**

Oh dude, there went BF's sales... Ouch.

**Arschbombe**

I don't see anywhere on the Sabol site that they are selling any Foam Corps products. Maybe Romeo heard some sort of deal was in the works and this letter is an attempt to short circuit that move. I don't think he's alleging that any Sabol product infringes on his not yet approved patent application. So it's no big deal.

Except that Captain Filip can't let go of that outrider whale.

**Polonius**

LucasLAD wrote:I'm really hoping that Romeo did this due to an ill advisement from a greedy legal team or an uninformed business development team.

A lawyer could send this sort of letter out without the client's knowledge. It's improper to assume that Romeo authorized it.

It is another great example of the highly suspect PR face Romeo puts on his business.

**RiTides**

Also, I know I'm late to the party, but just found the dismissal document of the case against Outrider... Wow...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/36020628/Battle-Foam-Outrider-Dismissal

He had a manufactured witness / fake email? Poor form...

. Definitely lost the chance of me becoming a customer, despite their superior product.

Will probably send Romeo an email to this effect as well.

Edit: To Polonius' comment above, while that is a possibility, it seems Romeo is well aware of what is going on in these cases. The "witness" was someone associated with him... not his lawyer.

**Janthkin**

It's a bizarre letter. While there are certain advantages to making sure your patent is known to your competitors, you don't have any enforceable rights until you actually have an issued patent. Once there IS an issued patent, certain damages can be retroactively calculated to the date of publication AND actual knowledge of the published application, which is all that this letter should be interpreted to mean.

I'm not sure where this "seek injunctive relief and additional damages for continuing infringement" assertion comes from - there's ISN'T any infringement until there is an issued patent, and merely having a patent application doesn't give any rights to injunctive relief or damages.

*edit: I do look forward to publication of the patent application, though - I'm (professionally) curious to see what is claimed.

**MDizzle**

Why dose anyone care?

**DarkAngelHopeful**

I really like Battle Foam's products. I'm not going to stop buying them. I'm interested in how this all turns out though.

**BrookM**

MDizzle wrote:Why dose anyone care?

We like good drama and the Foam Wars are highly amusing.

**Brother SRM**

Even if Battlefoam wasn't so expensive, this kind of tool-like behavior puts me off.

**pretre**

RiTides wrote:Also, I know I'm late to the party, but just found the dismissal document of the case against Outrider... Wow...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/36020628/Battle-Foam-Outrider-Dismissal

He had a manufactured witness / fake email? Poor form... . Definitely lost the chance of me becoming a customer, despite their superior product.

Will probably send Romeo an email to this effect as well.

Edit: To Polonius' comment above, while that is a possibility, it seems Romeo is well aware of what is going on in these cases. The "witness" was someone associated with him... not his lawyer.

Just read the whole thing. It is a good read.. Best part?

Parenthetically, the court suggests that prior to refiling this complaint in another forum, Battle Foam and its counsel might give serious consideration to the legal claims they are advancing, as well as the factual allegations leveled against Wade to ensure that they are supported by legal authority and an evidentiary basis... (snip details)... At a minimum, a bit of sober reflection by Battle Foam and its counsel would seem to be in order. See generally (Fed. R. Civ. P. 11(b).