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Considering so few units have them and the fact no-one EVER takes them anyway since their effect is so pointless (Seriously, 60 attacks from Boyz will kill you just as quickly as 80, no matter WHAT you are), hows this for a new effect.

Defensive Grenades:
<Insert silly fluff bit here>
Units that declare an assault against a unit with Defensive Grenades count as moving thorough Difficult Terrain when making their assault move that turn. If they would have to make a Difficult Terrain test to reach the unit anyway, they roll one less D6 when making this test (to a minimum of 1D6). Defensive Grenades have no effect against Bikes or Jetbikes.

So, Tau Fire Warriors might be able to survive more than one turn in Rapid Fire Range.

Thoughts?

...Maybe, but I've found it rarely matters for the roll to go through cover.

The enemy troops are usually only about 2-3 inches away, although this idea could work.

Though I still think that losing the charging attack is nice...

Do both? Or make it dangerous terrain as well(although that might be too good).

Jack

Dangerous is too good imo.

The Difficult Part is so you can go to 12", rapid fire, and they will need to roll 6's to get into CC (maybe more if you are already in terrain).

I think maybe dangerous only. It's such a small number of models that it would barely make up for the combat ineffectiveness of the units that get defensive grenades.

Personally I'd be willing to play-test any of the three combinations, as at least for myself I almost only ever see them on those units which come with them included and never purchased, so clearly they're not a worthwhile upgrade at any cost right now.

Jack

Wouldn't it possibly make Tactical Marines a bit too good when in cover?

I'd imagine against Orks it would make it alt easier to "steal the charge" as it were as well.

del'Vhar wrote:Wouldn't it possibly make Tactical Marines a bit too good when in cover?

I'd imagine against Orks it would make it alt easier to "steal the charge" as it were as well.

Tactical Marines don't have Defensive Grenades...

del'Vhar wrote:Wouldn't it possibly make Tactical Marines a bit too good when in cover?

I'd imagine against Orks it would make it alt easier to "steal the charge" as it were as well.

lolwut?

...I can only think of three units overhand that have Defensive Grenades... and they aren't Orks or Marines... (fail)

I really like the idea of slowing the enemy down, but the rule as it is also takes the attackers down to I1 (assuming no assault grenades). That seems a little too good. Tau attacking first in combat seems weird, but I guess it could abstractly symbolize them shooting the enemy as they charge through the grenades.

Its not as if Tau hitting first with one attack a piece is going to hurt almost any unit, but it might be enough to stop single left over tactical marines and the like from trying.

Jack

Yeah Elfdar, Dark Elfdar, and Tau . . . 2 combat armies, and one shooty . . . wouldn't this be making the Elfdars too good in combat? I know they generally go first anyway, so the I1 wouldn't make much difference. But to allow an extra bunch of wounds (through dangerous terrain), or allowing the chance to charge them instead (through failing difficult terrain) This could make them a bit too good. Ofcourse, it would need to be playtested to actually see if it makes much difference.

Oshova

Oshova wrote:Yeah Elfdar, Dark Elfdar, and Tau . . . 2 combat armies, and one shooty . . . wouldn't this be making the Elfdars too good in combat? I know they generally go first anyway, so the I1 wouldn't make much difference. But to allow an extra bunch of wounds (through dangerous terrain), or allowing the chance to charge them instead (through failing difficult terrain) This could make them a bit too good. Ofcourse, it would need to be playtested to actually see if it makes much difference.

Oshova

I don't think the Elfdar have Defensive Grenades...

Tau, Plague Marines and Nurgle Dæmons are the ones that come to mind.

And don't forget, everything (that is worth assaulting with) has Frags nowadays, so the I penalty isn't a major factor.

Not having a codec of either to hand I can't check . . . but I'm sure they had something . . . Maybe . . . I dunno =p

Oshova

Don't forget Typhus

From what I remember, eldar have haywire and plasma grenades. So they have assault grenades but not defensive.

Only other defensive grenade options I can think of are Ironclads, and IG vets...does the venomthope bubble grant them?

Jack

Indeed it does, as well as dangerous terrain tests . . . Much like what was proposed infact =p

Oshova

Nono! I never said make them take Dangerous, Only Difficult.

Sorry Gwar! It was Jackmojo who mentioned that.

Please don't eat me with your giant Shark head

Oshova