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Congratulations! That makes you even worse than them! The answer to evil is not supposed to be an even greater evil.
Maybe you can imagine now why the US is so hated in the muslim world?
Seriously, seeing as how many Americans I have seen openly calling for what would be the largest genocide in world history on this forum alone (and many more in other places), and given that dangerous radicals like Donald Trump can so easily gain so much support and the ease with which the US government supports neo-nazi organisations, I seriously am afraid the US is slowly going the way of Nazi Germany.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/10 08:29:43
Seriously, seeing as how many Americans I have seen openly calling for what would be the largest genocide in world history on this forum alone (and many more in other places), and given that dangerous radicals like Donald Trump can so easily gain so much support and the ease with which the US government supports neo-nazi organisations, I seriously am afraid the US is slowly going the way of Nazi Germany.
IC, those are the vocal minority... There have been a number of us Americans, and American Vets calling that kind of stuff out, because as you say... it's fething wrong.
But you are correct in that the scary thing is the ease with which Trump is gaining supporters, and not all of them are joining for the same reason. I do hope that those of us who are more sane can do enough to keep people like Trump from power, and to get those who think like him to wake up.
More to the thread, I think that now would be a good time for moderate Muslims, especially those in the Arab world to rise up and take a stand against ISIS/ISIL. I doubt that Islam will have it's own version of the Reformation without a moderate/liberal populist movement, but it kinda does need to happen.
More to the thread, I think that now would be a good time for moderate Muslims, especially those in the Arab world to rise up and take a stand against ISIS/ISIL. I doubt that Islam will have it's own version of the Reformation without a moderate/liberal populist movement, but it kinda does need to happen.
The thing is... I think they have been, for really quite a long while. The issue is, the media, at least in the Western world, really can't be bothered reporting it because it isn't sect or exciting enough. Whereas hatred or intolerance is way more interesting for 24 hour news.
I know lots and lots of circumstances, even one in the past week I think, where various important and influential Muslims have taken a stand against ISIL.
The things i can think of it being treated as important or front pageish news or "trending" news by multiple media outlets? Maybe twice? The first is "you ain't no Muslim, bruv" and the second was "mosque serves tea and biscuits to an English Defence League march during a rainy day." Which isn't even really ISIL related.
I wonder how big a deal the overseas has mentioned of Sadiq Khan being elected Mayor of London has been and, more importantly, how it has been spun.
The thing always try to remember whenever some article spin a certain way comes out is a ridiculously high percentage of people been killed by ISIL are.... Muslim. That fact alone and the implications of that fact are always worry remembering in these discussions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/10 08:40:18
More to the thread, I think that now would be a good time for moderate Muslims, especially those in the Arab world to rise up and take a stand against ISIS/ISIL. I doubt that Islam will have it's own version of the Reformation without a moderate/liberal populist movement, but it kinda does need to happen.
The thing is... I think they have been, for really quite a long while.
Then that stand needs to be, for lack of a better word, better.
You're absolutely right that the majority of those killed by ISIS are Muslims, which makes you think the other Muslim-dominated states in the region would get their act together and actually make a genuine effort at dealing with the problem instead of conducting largely token airstrikes under the careful guidance of the Yankee infidel. But nope; the only guys putting in real work on a consistent basis are irregular, non-national forces like the Kurds.
You're absolutely right that the majority of those killed by ISIS are Muslims, which makes you think the other Muslim-dominated states in the region would get their act together and actually make a genuine effort at dealing with the problem instead of conducting largely token airstrikes
Here's the thing (in my own personal, private view). We've now gone from talking about individual people or private groups to talking about governments and politics. And the reason, in my view, that the places you're talking about haven't done what you're hoping for, is quite simply, they haven't felt that it is in their political interests to do so yet. Of course, you then have the question of, perhaps it is in the political interests of a country and the people of that country, but isn't in the private and personal interests of those who hold power in the country.
Which, of course, isn't a phenomenon unique to the Middle East... But I'll leave it to your own personal politics to decide who that applies to in the Western World.
But going back to the "political interests of that country" thing. It's easy to blame Muslim countries for that but perhaps, they don't primarily identify the affected countries by them being Muslim.
To try to give things a Western historical context again (and hoping that it doesn't stray too close to whataboutism). It was felt, at the time, not to be in Britain's personal political interests to enter war with Nazi Germany until 1939, despite a whole load of stuff going on in the previous months before then. Similarly, it wasn't felt to be in America's personal political interests not to directly enter the war until 1941. This is despite countries being taken over that you could have described at the time as "white, Christian dominated states."
The thing is, and this really, really, really is my own personal opinion now. I genuinely do personally feel that ISIS are that big a deal (or at least, are striving to be), that comparisons to the rise of Nazi Germany really are very apt. I do think that, eventually, the countries around there are going to re-evaluate their political interests at some point and decide, you know what, it is time to make that "genuine effort" mentioned above. Because, in my view, ISIS really are that bad.
Of course, the question remains, how many innocent people (including Muslims) are going to die in the meantime, what disasters are going to happen to cause that paradigm shift and what the heck that 'genuine effort' is going to look like for it to have a snowballs chance in being successful.
The Islamic State (Isis) has reportedly executed more than three dozen of its jihadists after they decided not to fight and escaped during a battle against Kurdish Peshmerga forces. Local news sources claim that 35 to 45 militants were buried alive as punishment for their cowardice in the face of conflict.
An unnamed provincial source told AhlulBayt News Agency (ABNA) that the terrorists buried 35 fellow extremists alive on the outskirts of Qayyarah after they were accused of running away from the attack against pro-government Iraqi forces in Bashir, a village south of the Iraqi city of Kirkuk.
The number of jihadists executed is still ambiguous. While one source mentioned 35, Iraqi media activist Munzer Ismail told ARA News that the number was larger. "At least 45 jihadists were buried alive for escaping the battlefront southern Kirkuk," Ismail reported, citing eyewitnesses from Qayyarah.
Isis suffered severe losses of in terms of manpower and equipment during the clash and the Kurdish Peshmerga forces were able to liberate the village of Bashir.
This is the first time the militant group has executed its own soldiers by burying them alive. Kurdish journalist Bawer Khalil opined: "This mass execution of jihadists indicates that Isis is now suffering mounting disputes from within."
Daesh has been carrying out numerous executions of deserters and treason. As many as 35 members were accused of conspiracy and killed by firing squad at the Ghazlani military camp near Mosul on 28 February. More recently on 8 May, two Islamists were executed in Mosul on charges of treason and a day later dozens more were shot dead in the village of al-Hadar.
Not sure how reliable this is. Someone from the UK has a better perception of this news group. Still though. The fear factor is in play if so
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
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Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
In wartime spies can at best expect imprisonment but often times are executed, usually through the expediency of a firing squad or bullet to the head. No doubt an acceptable risk for those who engage in espionage; however this report is unacceptable by any measure.
Dang, ninja'd! But notice my commentary, what is your opinion?
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ISIS people are just messed up man. Buried alive and burned to death in acid. What next surgeries and amputations without anesthesia. Man our countries need to destroy this group. This is just wrong.
Edit:
You know i just thought of something and maybe it was obvious to you guys too. If this guy kills off his own men why don't we....encourage it. Why don't we let him see treachery at every turn so he kills more and more of his men. Surely enough kills and he severely weakens his own military forces or possibly causes factions to split up in his own forces. The only effects of this would be that more of these ISIS guys kill each other and they all know who they all are and where they are (or better than us). I could only see that as a positive result for us and negative for them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/23 08:11:07
Ensis Ferrae wrote: More to the thread, I think that now would be a good time for moderate Muslims, especially those in the Arab world to rise up and take a stand against ISIS/ISIL. I doubt that Islam will have it's own version of the Reformation without a moderate/liberal populist movement, but it kinda does need to happen.
Thing is, with most of the conflict between relatively moderate and hardline factions within Islam, in many ways this is a reformation. And fortunately this one is unlikely to carry a death toll close to the 10 million odd we saw in the Protestant Reformation.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
‘Turkey in organic relationship with ISIS’ – pro-Kurdish HDP party
Erdogan wants to purge the pro-Kurdish Peoples’ Democratic Party (HDP) from parliament. As Turkey’s main opposition it’s trying to call the government to account, says co-chair Figen Yuksekdag. Members are attacked, stripped of political immunity, and killed, she adds.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel said she told Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan that Ankara must fulfill all the EU's conditions - including revisions to anti-terror laws - to secure visa-free travel for its citizens, reported AP.
Speaking after a meeting with the Turkish leader in Istanbul, Merkel said she is concerned about Turkey’s decision to strip over a hundred of lawmakers of their parliamentary immunity. A controversial bill that enables Ankara to prosecute opposition politicians was passed by the parliament on Friday.
Before travelling to Turkey, Chancellor Merkel said recent developments in Turkey were a serious cause for concern; a view shared by a number of other high-profile Germans.
Kurdish MPs fear the proposal targets them - as President Erdogan has accused the HDP party of supporting Kurdish militants whom Ankara dubs terrorists. The majority of MPs facing investigation belong to the pro-Kurdish party.
The People's Democratic Party is an opposition left-wing party. It's also the third biggest in the Turkish parliament. The party supports the Kurds as well as other minorities whose members have angered President Erdogan.
When asked by RT why the US was blocking Russia’s proposal at the UN to extend the UN blacklist, Kirby said he would not “get into internal deliberations.”
Instead, he went on to accuse Gayane Chichakyan of “trying to put everything on the United States” and referring her to “all the members of the ISSG.”
The question about the motives behind Washington’s decision at the UN was left unanswered.
Hey, Yanks! So how do you determine between the "good terrorists" which you support with money, information, training and weapons and the "bad terrorists"?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/24 04:56:05
Ensis Ferrae wrote: More to the thread, I think that now would be a good time for moderate Muslims, especially those in the Arab world to rise up and take a stand against ISIS/ISIL. I doubt that Islam will have it's own version of the Reformation without a moderate/liberal populist movement, but it kinda does need to happen.
Thing is, with most of the conflict between relatively moderate and hardline factions within Islam, in many ways this is a reformation. And fortunately this one is unlikely to carry a death toll close to the 10 million odd we saw in the Protestant Reformation.
This isn't a "reformation". A big part of the current troubles is nothing more than an ongoing conflict between various sects that's been going on for centuries.
And in my point of view, there is no such thing as "moderate" Islam. You either have muslims who have read the Koran, Sunna, and Hadith, and those who have not (or don't bother) to read all of it. The so-called "moderates" you speak of fall into the second group. And they are not considered to be "good" or "devout" muslims by a HUGE chunk of the Islamic world.
Before we knock oldravenman, we should hear him out, and then argue the statements not the person.
There is a theory that the reformation is actually Islam swinging back to a hard line mindset. On the other hand if it wasn't driven by Wahhabi petrodollars, would it exist?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
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