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I was wondering if there is a logical way of using them... I am not complaining, I really can't find a proper use for them. Help?

With jump packs they are awfully expensive. 5 men squad without any equipment makes 175 points. You can pay 15 more and get a 10 men assault squad.
10 for each jumppack is robbery. When a 10 men assault squad drops jump packs they can take a rhino free which in return tells me that each jump pack is 3.5 point at most. 10 for vanguard is omg. 5 would be better but eh I am not writing those codexes .

Heroic intervention might be good if you would scatter d6" like the BA but 2d6" scatter sucks when you are playing C:SM.

Without jumppacks; you already have command squad, honour guard, termies or assault marines without jump pack.

Can somebody enlighten me? I bought the models while I was a noob but now I can't find a use for them. And I pray to god that I didn't buy the damned legion. Better off with sternguard veterans

cheers

FOr Vanilla marines? Useless.

For BA? Pretty good, but more bodies is probably better.

They're fantastic in a BA DoA list, but for vanilla Marines? There's no justification for their cost, and no reason to take them.

I used to have them, and quickly sold them off. Worthless for what you pay for them. If they came with built in jump packs for the current price, they'd be worth it. As of right now...get the assault marines

Moving thread to Tactics forum.

Meh, they are best to stay away from for vanilla marines at least. Far too expensive, if only they came with jump packs like the assault marines do.

Basically if you want a hard hitting cc squad from that codex then your looking at termmies or though I have not tried it I am told assault marines backed with a chaplain can do some damage. I have been having some success with a command squad outfitted for cc but I am paying more for less from them than my termmies.

Well having used Vanguard myself and reading up some handy tactics on them, there is only 2 ways to use them right now.

The first option is a squad of 5, with jump-packs and a small array of weapons. The max you'll hit is 250pts which is a lot but you can justify it with certain upgrades. One I want to try is 4 storm shields and a t-hammer seargent. Suddenly they've got good invun saves and still got a lot of attacks charging. The t-hammer adds some extra punch and enables vehicle hunting.

The other option is 10 men in a transport, preferably a land-raider. Why? well for starters they've got a good transport to keep them safe. Second you can then attach a chaplain and maybe another character to the squad to add more attak power. Third you can then provide a few upgrades to the squad - only a few, you don't want to burn up points.

Overall they are pricy and many people cannot justify the price, which is fine for them. I personally agree; I'd happily make their jump-packs standard wargear and drop some prices, or at least add another rule on that shows they are meant to be CC combatants. If you want some good advice for using footslogging Vanguard, go look up the user Thade on the Bolter And Chainsword forum - he's done some good tweaking.
As for jump-pack Vanguard, they are the overpriced men overall. You can create some barbaric units with them though. For example you can take 10 with jump-packs and twin LCs. Now attach Shrike and a JP Chaplain on. Now you've got over 40 LC attacks that reroll to hit and wound charging, while infiltrating. Add melta bombs and now you can assault tanks and destroy them with ease. Price? around 1000pts... yep, that much.

thank you all.. I think I will paint them just for fun and wait for 6th eddition with the hope of some changes. At least I have got 5 only
Yet I will try that Juvieus Kaine. 1000 pts. vanguard will be fun to handle for 1 game

I think 10 in a Raider with a good slogging Chaplain like say, Cassius in a Shrike list would be a good way to slaughter infantry units. Throw a Power Weapon or two in there with a Power Fist, and you can take out any target, fit more bodies in there than a Terminator squad, and get a lot more attacks on the charge.

Only weakness? No Invul save. But at least they can sweeping advance.

Use Locator Beacons if you're going to give them Jump Packs. Also, make sure that they are a complex unit. Otherwise, let them use Jump Packs to go on a rampage, preferring non-Fearless targets.

Pretty much what Nurglitch said.

It's their access to sparkly weapons that make them potent.

They're an excellent part of a Drop Pod list, since you can stick Locator Beacons on the Drop Pods and put them down where you need reinforcement. Afterwards their Jump Packs make them mobile after the Drop Pods have been immobilized and you're essentially playing an infantry game.

The only way I see VV as effective for SM is to run them in Crusader or Redeemer lead by an IC. You can kit them with stormshields which actually makes them a decent alternative to assault terminators. They should all have lightning claws/power fists/thunderhammers for close combat. Sure you can do the same with a command squad but you can take more than five Marines in a squad of VV. Versus thunder termies they will win since they are swinging first, plus rerolling wounds if you take lightning claw/stormshield as I recommended.

Minci wrote:I was wondering if there is a logical way of using them... I am not complaining, I really can't find a proper use for them. Help?

With jump packs they are awfully expensive. 5 men squad without any equipment makes 175 points. You can pay 15 more and get a 10 men assault squad.
10 for each jumppack is robbery. When a 10 men assault squad drops jump packs they can take a rhino free which in return tells me that each jump pack is 3.5 point at most. 10 for vanguard is omg. 5 would be better but eh I am not writing those codexes .

Heroic intervention might be good if you would scatter d6" like the BA but 2d6" scatter sucks when you are playing C:SM.

Without jumppacks; you already have command squad, honour guard, termies or assault marines without jump pack.

Can somebody enlighten me? I bought the models while I was a noob but now I can't find a use for them. And I pray to god that I didn't buy the damned legion. Better off with sternguard veterans

cheers

Its not you. they're generally thought of as a bad unit. I wouldnt try to find a reason to field them. they're potentially very strong in assaults and have good mobility, but the cost is prohibitive. hope that helps.

So riddle me this dakka. On GWs website, the box of vanguard veterans has three with power swords. Yet the only model that can get a sword is the Sgt. Thoughts?

ummm... they can all take power swords.

They can all take anything except only the sergeant can take relic blade.
I agree with you AboaddonFiedelis and I think this edition is more about quantity but less about quality. With all those named weapon options and stuff to take with vanguard, I can take 2 assault squads one in rhino one with jump packs. Point cost math shows also that vanguard veterans are robbery and falsely created.
I will paint a 9 men set of more assault marines and buy a new rhino

Use them as a painting project, put them in the display case and never take them apart from in ultra friendly fluffy games.

yeah they're just prohibitively expensive. if they came with jump packs it would be another story.

my question is, since VV and SV are supposed to be the elite of their respective fields (close combat and shooting respectively), why do they have the same damn stats as a freakin tac squad?....I would think vanguard would have ws 5, and sternguard would have bs 5, and the veterans would at least have 2 wounds and 1 more attack....

well stern guard do have an extra attack. cant remember if vanguard do or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
you dont get 2 wounds on a marine unless he's a character, as a general rule.

Both units have 2 attacks base which to be honest wouldn't really justify them as "veterans". I would think a boost in stats a bit more like excelling in their skill would help, not gaining funky wargear that cost's too much to make it useful. Vanguard suffer from it greatly since they're using the same-priced wargear as everybody else. So are Sternguard, but those guys can just take a bunch of combis and take on anything.

If I could redo Vanguard now, I'd make the jump-packs standard and maybe add Furious Charge to them. It's fitting since it shows their specialty in CC.

I would support that. maybe pay a little extra for furious charge but not much. as they stand right now even if they had furious charge they would still imo be overpriced.

That's it bring out a new SM codex and sod DH/WH/Necrons (I would actually love that the moaning on here would be endless)

Sternguard are one of the best, if not the best, unit in the codex (Especially with Pedro Kantor and Darnath Lysander!) . Monstrous creature? Hellfire. Aspect Warriors? Your kidding me. Landraider? They can get combi meltas.

Ed_Bodger wrote:That's it bring out a new SM codex and sod DH/WH/Necrons (I would actually love that the moaning on here would be endless)

or... .here's an idea.... we could just get rid of the codex system all together and tweak units in real time by using the.... interwebz. I hear there have been amazing developments in communications technology over the last 20 years.

Just dont buy the jump packs. Buy a transport and buy some special weapons and you have a decent unit. The only problem is for the same points, you could buy a terminator squad, but they have problems of their own.

I Wouldn't rule them out as crap, just stay away from the jump packs. Same with the BA Death Company. Drop ftw