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There has been some question as to which item is a superior buff to the combat effectiveness of the wych. I broke down and did some math on it. Due to formatting issues and a lack of easy copy - paste options, I'm just going to post the overall results.

Its important to note that I did the math for each Combat Drug result. The Average expected wounds was simply taking the average number of expected wounds from each drug result, adding them together, and dividing by 6 (as there are 6 possible results).

So here it is, the math says..... (based on average 3.5 bonus attacks for the hydra gauntlet...)

V MEQ (not assaulting)
Average expected wounds
Hydra 0.9653
Razor 0.9771

V MEQ (assaulting, or Brides non-assaulting)
Average expected wounds
Hydra 1.1736
Razor 1.4309

V GEQ (not assaulting)
Average expected wounds
Hydra 1.7639
Razor 1.4856

V GEQ (assaulting, or Brides non-assaulting)
Average expected wounds
Hydra 2.1435
Razor 2.1728

As you can see the math shows that they are mostly similar in terms of average. The Razorflail wins the math hammer challenge, as it is stronger is 3/4 categories.

Additional situations not accounted for here only compound the win for the Razorflail, such as higher T opponents. The Razorflail will win in the math there too.

One important piece of information that the math does not take into account is the variation in he expected number of wounds. The hydra gauntlet will have more variation. It will more often score both higher and lower wounds than the Razorflail.

For wychs, which is better will be determined by how you want to play them. If you intend them to hit softer targets where you don't mind drawing a round of combat before winning, then hydras are for you. If you want a more normalized output, then the Razorflail is your choice.

Bloodbrides are always better equiped with the Razorflail. There is no opponent against whom the Hydra gauntlet is better.

Combat Drugs push the swing towards Hydras

+1WS, boon to Hydras
+1S boon to hydras
reroll to wound ONLY good for hydras
+1 attack boon to flails


Automatically Appended Next Post:
so numbers calculating the results of combat drugs on razor flails vs hydra guantlets
wounds caused before saves. So Orks are Meq and Tau are Geq.

numbers are from 2 wyches with normal, flails and hydras. The average roll of 3.5 is used for the hydras. The second number is how many wounds on the charge


No Charging
Weapon Normal Flails Hydra
NoDrg Meq 0.66 1.66 1.50 Flails better
NoDrg Geq 1.33 2.66 3.00 Hydras better
+1Str Meq 1.00 2.25 2.25 Similar
+1Str Geq 1.77 3.16 4.00 Hydras better
+1WS Meq 0.88 1.97 2.00 Similar
+1WS Geq 1.33 3.16 3.00 flails better
rerollW Meq 1.11 1.66 2.50 Hydras better
rerollW Geq 2.00 2.66 4.50 Hydras better
+1Att Meq 1.00 2.50 1.83 Flails better
+1Att Geq 2.00 4.00 3.66 Flails better

Charging or blood brides
Weapon Norma Flails Hydra
NoDrg Meq 1.00 2.50 1.83 Flails better
NoDrg Geq 2.00 4.00 3.66 Flails better
+1Str Meq 1.5 3.375 2.75 Flails better
+1Str Geq 2.66 4.74 4.88 Hydras better
+1WS Meq 1.33 2.96 2.44 Flails better
+1WS Geq 2.00 4.74 3.66 Flails better
rerollW Meq 1.66 2.50 3.05 Hydras better
rerollW Geq 3.00 4.00 5.50 Hydras better
+1Att Meq 1.33 3.33 2.16 Flails better
+1Att Geq 2.66 5.33 4.33 Flails better

in all cases the special weapons are not really worth their cost. Another wych would provide about the same amount of damage, so unless you have transport max they are not really worth it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
also note that FC shifts things in favor of Hydras, in much the same way +1 Str does. T5 and 6 shift in favor of Flails. T2(Grots) are going to get dominated by Hydras.

My above post does not break down all the scenarios that you do, but rather amalgamates them into one single number. This is so that you give each drug result equal weighting, since a 1 and a 6 effectively do not alter the combat effectiveness. That means that the razorflail is superior 2/6 of the time before considering the drugs that effect combat.

Compounding this is the fact that you have to count on getting the assault most of the time, so the numbers for non-assaulting are really less important than for assaulting. Razorflails are better in most cases there as well. It works out much close than your conclusion indicates, though I still chose the hydra gauntlets for normal wychs.

Bah, everyone knows to just take Hydra Gauntlets and use a loaded dice for the +D6 attacks roll...

Dracos wrote:My above post does not break down all the scenarios that you do, but rather amalgamates them into one single number. This is so that you give each drug result equal weighting, since a 1 and a 6 effectively do not alter the combat effectiveness. That means that the razorflail is superior 2/6 of the time before considering the drugs that effect combat.

Compounding this is the fact that you have to count on getting the assault most of the time, so the numbers for non-assaulting are really less important than for assaulting. Razorflails are better in most cases there as well. It works out much close than your conclusion indicates, though I still chose the hydra gauntlets for normal wychs.

yeah I am just amazed at how most results are around twice that of a normal wych. You really gain nothing from them other than tranport space but you lose a wound and 2 splinter pistols. If you are taking bloodbrides or haywire grenades it helps a bit but not as much as I would have though.