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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/24 21:44:03
Subject: Eldar Aspect Warriors tactica:
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Raging Ravener
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Could some one please give me some tips and tactics when using:
Howling Banshees
Warp Spiders
And what people think of:
Striking Scorpions
Fire Dragons
Dark reapers and Shining Spears
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/24 22:08:46
Subject: Eldar Aspect Warriors tactica:
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Screaming Shining Spear
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Let's start with your second question:
Fire Dragons are the cheapest and most reliable way in Codex: Eldar to pop anything above AV13. They're dangerous and as such a big threat to your opponent and usually don't live very long.
Striking Scorpions can be great help or just wasted points. There are many ways to field them, but I've done so most succesfully by outflanking 6 of them with a PF equiped Exarch to kill units that love hugging the edge of the table. I love the look of them, but they're highly dependant on luck and not very competitive because of that.
Dark Reapers are nice, but share the same slot as Fire Prisms, Falcons, War Walkers and Wraithlords. That makes them very, very limited in use.
Shining Spears are generally considered terribly overcosted and not worth fielding at all. I have to agree with that assesment. They have too few attacks to do anything decent and don't have an invulnerable save while costing the same as an assault terminator.
Now, for your first question:
By chance Howling Banshees and Warp Spiders are two of my favourite Aspects. Banshees are hurt by our lack of assault or open-topped vehicles, but fleet helps them there. They -will- annihilate anything numbering 10 models or less, but in a prolonged assault they are squishy like all Eldar. Also, you need a Wave Serpent for them to ride in, on foot they are absolutely useless. And that means knowing how to position your Serpent so that the Banshees don't get shot next turn is key for their use. No matter the case, they are good and most likely won't fail to kill something worth their points.
And as for the Warp Spiders...there's no squad that is more of a pain-in-the-ass to kill than Warp Spiders. I love them, I field them every time and they kick ass. They are constantly on the opponent's tail, and every time he turns around to deal with them, opens his back to the rest of my army. They're like hunting dogs chasing down prey where the hunter is waiting, lining it up for the kill. They won't kill much themselves, but they'll drive your opponent nuts, provided your luck doesn't run out(they need a lucky hand to be effective. If they're caught with their pants down, they die just as quickly as any other Eldar).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/24 22:28:13
Subject: Eldar Aspect Warriors tactica:
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Bloodthirsty Bloodletter
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Indeed, harassment is what Warp Spiders do best. Pop in, blast something important, and warp to safety. Even if you don't do much to your target, the ability to JSJ makes them downright maddening to fight.
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In the grim darkness of the far future, there are only rules disputes.
Ellandornia Craftworld
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The Fighting 54th Necromundan Hive Rats
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/24 23:41:20
Subject: Re:Eldar Aspect Warriors tactica:
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Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper
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Fire Dragons
These are considered the core of any competitive army, with most tourney armies having 3 squads of 5. A squad of 5 will ruin just about any tank out there. Obviously, they must be placed in Wave Serpents to do anything because they're squishy and short ranged, a poor combination for footslogging. They can also act as anti-MEQ by taking a squad of ~7 and an Exarch with a Dragon's Breath flamer (you'll probably want to use them as anti-infantry if you fill all 3 elite slots with them!).
Striking Scorpions
With 3 S4 attacks as a baseline, Striking Scorpions are designed to kill hordes. Ork boys, Tyranid 'gaunts, Guardsmen - Scorpions throw out enough attacks to chew through these and a 3+ armor save to take a beating in return. They're also cheaper than most other aspects because they don't need a transport (remember to outflank them!). However outflanking is fairly random, and not every army can or will field the hordes that Scorpions are designed to kill, so they're a gamble. In the current competitive meta-game, where vehicles are prevalent and hordes are rare, they can be a little underwhelming (doesn't help that they compete with Fire Dragons for elite slots either!).
Howling Banshees
Striking Scorpions kill hordes, Howling Banshees kill MEQs. It's why they have power weapons - if you're not fighting something with good armor, Scorpions will be better! Scorpions have better armor and strength and more attacks, so if the Banshees aren't putting their power weapons to good use they're flat out worse!
They can be tricky to use - even with a power weapon their low strength means they won't kill MEQs quite fast enough. Banshees are flimsy so you want to knock out whatever they're fighting in a single assault. Cast Doom on their target and their strength won't matter anymore. You must transport them, and this means they must (a)fly into assault range of their target, (b)sit in the transport for a turn while their target runs away and/or shoots the transport and Banshees, then (c)hope they're still in range/still alive so they can hop out and assault. Not the most competitive choice ever, but they're not horrible either.
Dark Reapers
They are the ranged equivalent of Howling Banshees. They kill MEQs. However, due to the prevalence of 4+ cover saves in 5ed their AP3 will often go to waste. They're also pricey, at 35pts a model, and less resilient to damage than a tactical marine while costing more than twice as much. And they compete with much better units (like Fire Prisms and Night Spinners) for Heavy Support slots. Uncompetitive, I'd only use these if you were really in love with the models or the idea behind them.
Shining Spears
Yet another unit designed to kill MEQs. They're as tough as tactical marines, but with a maximum squad of 5 and 35pts each that isn't a good thing. They lack grenades which means anything they assault in cover is getting first shot - when you've only got 5 models maximum, even one or two unsaved wounds are crippling. Assuming they ever reach assault ranges - it isn't hard to kill 5 MEQs, and being large and levitating doesn't help!
Warp Spiders
Spiders can be tricky to use. Deathspinners have too few attacks to whittle down hordes and AP- isn't scaring MEQs, but they're not exactly bad against either. If I had to pick a speciality, I'd say they were light vehicle killers - S6 means they can threaten AV11, and being jump infantry they can hop to the squishy rear of most tanks. Even a minimum sized squad of 5 will throw out 10 S6 shots. That'll net you ~1 penetrate and ~1 glancing blow against the AV11 rear of a demolisher. At 12" they're short range however and their assault jump isn't going to get them out of range of plasma guns and the like.
One thing to consider - Jetbikes cost the same, are tougher, have an equal save, move roughly as fast as Spiders (6" in the assault phase, which is better than 2d6" for being reliable!), can take a few S6 shuricannons, and most importantly are scoring units. Jetbikes will generally be superior if you're low on troops (which you probably will be, because Eldar troop choices are kinda bad!).
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Go Sonic the Ultramarine! Zap to the Extreme!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/24 23:44:27
Subject: Eldar Aspect Warriors tactica:
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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Scorps will absolutely maul all basic boys mobs they come into contact with. Add doom and fortune to the equation to make it unfair on your opponent. They do die to elite CC units though.
They will hold their own against MEQ's but will suffer from attrition. This is where Banshees come into their own. They do benefit greatly from doom though as S3 will limit their effectiveness otherwise.
I'd agree with Araenion about how to get them into CC though. Banshees are better in a transport and scorps are better outflanking.
Firedragons are just great for their points. Only use them in a transport though. Fire them towards your opponent and reliably do major damage to any of their vehicles or heavily armoured infantry. Don't expect them to do anything else though as they are so much of a threat they will die after they get a round of shooting in.
Agreed about the warp spiders.
As for dark reapers there's so much cover about these days unless your facing a MEQ army out of cover, there's better options in the Heavy support role.
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"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." - J. Robert Oppenheimer - Exterminatus had it's roots way back in history. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/25 00:06:37
Subject: Eldar Aspect Warriors tactica:
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Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator
Acquiring BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD-emperor
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The popular opinion in Dakka is that shining spears are terribly overpriced.
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Imperator dixit, faciebimus. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/25 01:02:27
Subject: Eldar Aspect Warriors tactica:
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I can find somethig I like about all the Aspect Warriors, the key difference that seperates the bad and good Eldar players is the ability to recognize the shortcomings of one of their units and compensate for that with a strengh of another unit.
So that being said, every unit has potential to win back their points and more. And since almost everything has been covered I am going to speak up for the Dark Reapers.
They are not a bad choice. But it is true that most things you shoot will be getting their 4+ cover save... except againt the Exarch with Crack Shot. Not only does he ignore cover, but he gts to re-roll his "To Wound" rlolls!
Give the guy a tempest launcher, it counts as a barrage weapon, and suddenly you have a 36" radius that every MEQ is scared to enter. You don't need line of sight, but if you do have it, you get the exarch's BS of 5 incase you do scatter. A well placed blast template can kill 3-6 Space Marines easy, and then the other Dark Reapers force enough 4+ saves to wipe out the rest.
And then thre is the nice added bonus of a possible Pinning Test.
Or, give the exarch an EML, and maybe Fast Shot, and the squad can take on Light to Medium armored tanks from afar. But I would advise leaving this to your other units, and using the Dark Reapers to shoot at whatever is inside the tanks you pop. But if need be, they can stop a rhino.
My Dark Reapers exarch has killed ten space marines by himself in one salvo before, my opponent was shocked... do not underestimate him.
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Like Anime in addition to the fun of 40k?
Then maybe you would like the series created by OoziHobo & Co called QUADGUN |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/25 01:14:43
Subject: Eldar Aspect Warriors tactica:
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Longtime Dakkanaut
New Zealand
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Probably because they are... Shining Spears die just as easily as Marines and don't have enough attacks to scare anything in combat. They are forced to hunt expensive elite units to try and make there points back, but unfortunately they bounce off anything tougher than a Tactical Squad. Banshees and Scorpions main failing is that getting them into combat safely is very difficult, assaulting out of closed top transports cripples them to the point that they are barely usable unfortunately. Both are outclassed by Harliequins as well (who don't need a transport to get to assault either). Reapers still squash Marine units flat, but are far less useful in 5th due to the abundance of cover and vehicles. Not being able to move and fire is the real nail in the coffin for me (that would at least let them back away from assault units and catch units in the open). Spiders are decent, they can force a ton of wounds on infantry and still threaten vehicles a bit with S6. They are probably best suited to an infantry based list though, Vypers don't have as much firepower but tend to work better in the more common mech lists. Fortunately the shortcomings of the other Aspects are basically made up for by Fire Dragons, point for point they are arguably the best unit in the game. Pretty much every army in the game would kill for cheap, Ld9, BS4 meltaguns with up to 10 per unit.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/11/25 01:17:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/25 02:14:47
Subject: Re:Eldar Aspect Warriors tactica:
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Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper
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The diameter of a small blast template is 1.5". The coherency range is 2". A single blast template will hit 1 target, assuming it doesn't scatter onto more (or scatters off target entirely, which is just as likely with a small blast barrage with no LoS). The Tempest Launcher is a multiple barrage weapon, which means the second template will be placed in base-contact with the first. Assuming you placed the first template in the middle of the squad, the second template should hit 2 or 3 more targets. And yes, if you're firing it at MEQs they will be few enough in numbers to spread out like this.
I would bet that any squad from any codex can make it's points back when facing it's optimal target under optimal situations. The question any competitive player must ask themselves is whether something else can do the task better. And with Dark Reapers, that's a definite yes.
You don't even have to look out of the Heavy Support section. A minimum sized squad of Dark Reapers (the best choice if you're playing the old hide-out-of-LoS tempest launcher one trick pony) will cost 147pts. For 3x T3, armor save 3+ guys.
A Night Spinner costs 115 pts. Hell, give it a holofield to bring it to a comparable 150pts! Between the initial hit, and the dangerous terrain test, it will kill roughly 3-4 marines per shot. Also it forces a difficult terrain test, slowing its target down, and is actually an anti-horde weapon and will perform better still against them! It's also mobile, fast, and much tougher.
Or a Fire Prism, same cost. A single Fire Prism is slightly less effective against MEQs but can now threaten hordes, terminators and tanks too! As well as being mobile, faster, and much tougher.
The measure of a unit isn't whether it can be used well in optimal circumstances. Even Swooping Hawks and Shining Spears have specific scenarios where they shine. But those scenarios are exact and inflexible and other units perform the role equally well or better without those disadvantages. There is a reason you don't see any Dark Reapers is high ranking tourney lists.
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Go Sonic the Ultramarine! Zap to the Extreme!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/25 19:05:17
Subject: Eldar Aspect Warriors tactica:
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Raging Ravener
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Im buying some new units soon and as im facing some Guard,Nids, Tau and some MEQ what should i go for?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 02:31:49
Subject: Re:Eldar Aspect Warriors tactica:
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Generally speaking I'll only use Banshees or Dark Reapers to fill a weakness in my army. Reapers are usually very poor for this, as their is not much they can do better for their points that another Heavy slot can't do.
I find banshees (or harlies) are good to stick in either a Falcon or Serpent on a shooting line. If you don't have them, and your shooting doesn't go well, then your army is toast up close. Banshees give you a bit of a fail safe backup at not a lot of extra points (I usually run 6 in a falcon so as not to detract too much from my gunline) - and allow you to assault anything that gets through your lines. Harlies are a bit better again, but a bit more expensive and eat a bit more points from your gun line.
Ultimately, you usually just decide how you want to play your game, build an army - analyse your army from an opponents POV for strengths/weaknesses, then tweak it accordingly. Essentially, don't rely on luck - make the right selections, think about how you can use each unit to get the most out of them in varying circumstances (this will become more obvious with more experience/gamelplay) and make your own luck.
On another point - can't wait for Swooping hawks to get a facelift (in however many years time) - I don't think I've effectively managed to use my hawks since 3rd Ed! (and I love the minis - I think they are one of the better looking aspects IMHO)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 14:44:11
Subject: Eldar Aspect Warriors tactica:
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Bloodthirsty Bloodletter
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From my experiences, the two most useful Aspect squads are Dire Avengers and Fire Dragons.
Against infantry, drop a load of Avengers out the back of a wave serpent, bladestorm, laugh as the target squad gets shredded, jump back in the wave serpent, repeat.
Against vehicles (or teminators), do the same with Fire Dragons.
As nice as some of the other Aspects are, it's those two that I find consistently function at maximum efficacy.
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In the grim darkness of the far future, there are only rules disputes.
Ellandornia Craftworld
Heirs to Oblivion
The Host of a Thousand Screams
The Fighting 54th Necromundan Hive Rats
=====Begin Dakka Geek Code=====
DS:80S++G++MB+I--Pw40k96/re+D+++A+++/fWD196R++T(T)DM+
======End Dakka Geek Code======
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 16:45:06
Subject: Eldar Aspect Warriors tactica:
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Raging Ravener
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Just like Slice 'n' Dice, i also really like Swooping Hawks. Any Tips on how to use them?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 18:13:27
Subject: Eldar Aspect Warriors tactica:
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Crafty Clanrat
Scotland
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I think Rube hit the nail on the head. Aspect Warriors aren't bad, but they are very situational and lack some of the basic tools to work properly. (You want T3 4+ save Banshees to advance up the field WITHOUT a transport that's either open topped or has an assault ramp? Really?)
As for swooping Hawks... as much as it pains me to say it, the only advice I can give on how to use them is don't. Although their guns have range, they aren't going to be killing much with them. You could give the exarch a power weapon and try to kill Guard or Tau, but there's no guarantee they'd do that well. Finally haywire grenades work ok on tanks, but obviously you need to be in CC range, and if you fail the tank just drives away and the Hawks die.
They might get better in the next codex when they (hopefully) steal the Haywire Grenade Launcher from the Dark Eldar, but until then they are a waste of an army slot.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 23:11:05
Subject: Re:Eldar Aspect Warriors tactica:
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Dakka Veteran
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I find that Shining Spears can work if you do a couple of things:
1) Take an Autarch on a bike with a Laser Lance and Mandiblasters. He gives the squad a ton more hitting power and he gives it a few more wounds to weather incoming shooting.
2) Take a couple of squads in grav tanks. The Shining Spears can use the grav tanks as cover to shelter them as they advance and attack.
3) Take at least one other assault unit - Banshees, Harlequins, whatever. Have them team up with the Shining Spears and attack the enemy in the same general area, maybe even against the same enemy unit.
4) When in doubt, keep try to keep them alive. Hide, hug cover, advance along the flank so fewer enemy units can target them. Cast Fortune on them if you can.
If you do all of that, they can be a very nice unit that can deal a crushing amount of damage on the charge. They cost a lot of points (too many, to be honest) but they can work.
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Madness is however an affliction which in war carries with it the advantage of surprise - Winston Churchill |
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