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Currently I am just doing a draft for a new army, and need help. Seeing that you can't field 4 razorbacks with 2 tac squads, I need help with what to put instead so I can fill up 160 pts
This is a 1st draft so feel free to totally "destroy" it. This is what I have planned
HQ
Librarian(Vortex of Doom, Avenger) leveled up to Epistolary 150
Troops
Tac Squad 10 strong w/melta, powerfist 200
Tac Squad 10 strong w/plasma pistol, meltabombs
4 razorbacks and illegal 160
Heavy Support
Land Raider Achilles 300


Thank you for the future comments

1. You can't use 2 PSA's in one turn anyways, so not only do you not need the upgrade, but without terminator armour you can't move and fire VoD anyways. Drop VoD and get nullzone.

2.You can buy 5 man tacticals and get 4 razorbacks in.

Try

Libby 100
4x 5 man tacticals in razorback 520
5 scouts 75
Achilles 300

There you go. Scoring achilles with libby fun, your 4 razorbacks.

Revised army list

HQ
Librarian(avenger, nullzone)100
Troops
Tac squad 10 strong w/melta powerfist melta bombs 205
Tac squad 5 strong w/ razorback 130
Tac squad 5 strong w/ razorback 130
Heavy Support
Land Raider Achilles 300

But how am I suppose to fill that 135 point gap

The 10 man tac squad needs a combi-melta and a ride. That leaves you with enough points to get a tac squad to ride in the achilles or a Scout squad with a combi.

With comments come questions, should I put scouts with HB and telion for the 135 gap or should I give the 10 man tac a transport(drop pod) and upgrade the tacs and razors(ei plasma, and las)?
Sorry if I am acting needy just need to make a good army.

A HB with Telion is an awful choice, ML is much better. However you're better off getting a ride and a combi for your 10 man tac squad. They can't fit in the Achilles so you need to get them a transport. A combi doubles the squads effectiveness for 10 points it madness not to take it on the sargeant.

That is 45 points leaving you with 90. That is a 5 man tac squad to make the achilles scoring or a 5 man scout squad with a combi (and I'd go BP+CCW) with largely the same benefits but also able to dish out some hurt if needed.

I'd also dump the 5 mans squads in razorbacks they really won't do anything. This combo is only worth it if you're taking Las/plas or AssCann razorbacks and if you're going that route SWs do it far far better (as do BA). Change them for something more killy and preferably something with an armour value to help with the Achilles. 2 Hybrid Preds would work and give you another 20 points to spend.

So in other words take off 1 5 man squad and replace it with....maybe sternguard?

What layout is an Achilles pattern? :s

The Achilles pattern is imo quite OP.

300pts
AV 14 all around and immune to melta and lance effects. Always -1 on the damage table. (Except vs D type weapons)
Hull mounted TFC
Twin Linked MM as side sponsons.
PotMS
6 Units tarnsport capacity.

No assault ramp tho...

The Achilles is riddiculous, and I'd hazard to say it would be ideal to carry a Librarian or a Captain with a unit of Sternguard. Who needs Razorbacks!

So basically use up points by getting sternguard with I dont know maybe Combis
Thank you everybody for helping me with this list

Ive never even heard of it, is it legal?

mattyrm wrote:Ive never even heard of it, is it legal?

It's in an IA I believe. It is another OP Forgeworld model.

Anyway, this army would definitely do quite well against some other 1k lists. Although I would definitely not allow the fielding of the Achilles personally.

Actually it is legal in most of the Sm codexs(everything except BA) and is counted as a heavy support choice, download the rules if you want to further read about the rules(bottom left shows the point I'm trying to make. One more question, If anyone has the time could you please take your opinions and form a mock army list with tank busting Tacs, Libby, and Land Raider Achilles.

Reaper67 wrote:Actually it is legal in most of the Sm codexs(everything except BA) and is counted as a heavy support choice, download the rules if you want to further read about the rules(bottom left shows the point I'm trying to make. One more question, If anyone has the time could you please take your opinions and form a mock army list with tank busting Tacs, Libby, and Land Raider Achilles.

The Land Raider Achilles was created by Forgeworld, not by GW. The rules have not been FAQ'd or added in any WD even to the SM Codex, thus it is not a legal item to field. Although you can ask your opponent to field such a model, although by the rules, he is not required to allow it.

In reference to your question; I would add a Rhino to the one Tactical Squad, and then a Scout squad with Rifles and cloaks. That would give you a nice objective camping squad with a good save and make your army fully mobile.

Reaper67 wrote:Currently I am just doing a draft for a new army, and need help. Seeing that you can't field 4 razorbacks with 2 tac squads, I need help with what to put instead so I can fill up 160 pts
This is a 1st draft so feel free to totally "destroy" it. This is what I have planned
HQ
Librarian(Vortex of Doom, Avenger) leveled up to Epistolary 150
Troops
Tac Squad 10 strong w/melta, powerfist 200
Tac Squad 10 strong w/plasma pistol, meltabombs
4 razorbacks and illegal 160
Heavy Support
Land Raider Achilles 300


Thank you for the future comments

run smaller tac squads to get more razor backs.
give your librarian null zone. its pretty much the whole point of taking one of those guys.
dont run any land raiders - achilles or otherwise - in so small a game. it represents too large an allocation of your total available points in a 1000 point game.
consider putting at least one good unit in the list. like vulkan or lysander or something. good luck.

Question, if I maybe boost this list to 1500 would it be wise to field a Ironclad in Drop pod, would that help and also what am I missing?

Only take a DP if you are taking 3+. One lone DP is never a good idea. If you take 3 that assures you that you have two down first turn with a third coming in next to support. Also what you add to your army depends on your playstyle and army type. If you are going to continue with the Mech theme, I would probably add a predator or two as well as some mounted veterans. Possibly the addition of a second Librarian would give your army more flexibility.

Only take a DP if you are taking 3+. One lone DP is never a good idea.

Whilst this is good solid advice a lone DP can be a good and effective choice. If and only if you can support it. So as a general principal DPs should always be odd numbers starting with 3, certain builds can use 1 DP and still be effective.

Well to verify I will field 2 drop pods, one for the tacs and one for the Ironclad. But if you say 3, what should I put in it, another dread, sternguard I just can't really decide
And also I might field termies w/ assault cannon, so that takes up 230 pts

Well it depends, generally the first two DP's you drop you want them to have synergy and to be able to work together well. For my BA I took two Furiosos, when they worked together they almost could clear the enemy Deployment zone. If doing Vanilla SM, I would probably do sternguard and possibly a dread, or two sternguard if the points are available.

If doing Vanilla SM, I would probably do sternguard and possibly a dread, or two sternguard if the points are available.

2 dreads works well too. 2 Ironclad with HF and Melta gun, 2 MM+HF Dreads or one of each are all good options too (as are obviously the suggested Sternguard).

Personally I'd go with 2 dreads or 2 units of sternguard most of the time. Going with 1 infantry and 1 vehicle can allow your opponent to concentrate his AT fire on one and his AI fire on the other, making target priority easier and allowing him to get full use of all his surviving fire power.

FlingitNow wrote:

If doing Vanilla SM, I would probably do sternguard and possibly a dread, or two sternguard if the points are available.

2 dreads works well too. 2 Ironclad with HF and Melta gun, 2 MM+HF Dreads or one of each are all good options too (as are obviously the suggested Sternguard).

Personally I'd go with 2 dreads or 2 units of sternguard most of the time. Going with 1 infantry and 1 vehicle can allow your opponent to concentrate his AT fire on one and his AI fire on the other, making target priority easier and allowing him to get full use of all his surviving fire power.

Good points, as a BA player, I love having two Furiosos with EA dropping on my opponent on turn 1. Most of the time with SL's, I have at-least one dread alive at the end of the game. I take it Ironclads are just as good? I am a bit clueless to the vanilla Dreads.

Ironclads are good AV13 just makes them that bit more survivable. It means those lottas can hurt you but won't kill you. If forces people to either take you on in CC or with melta. Bit more pricey and with only a meltagun you need to drop accurately to pop that tank but they do cause the enemy problems.

Revised-ish army list, might still need tweeks.
HQ
Libby(nullzone avenger) 100
Troops
Tac 10 strong w/powerfist, meltgun, melta bombs, and combi-melta 215
Deticated Transport
drop pod 35
Tacs 5 strong w/ razorback assault cannon 165
Elites
Terminators 5 strong w/ assault cannon 230
ironclad w/ iron clad assault launcher, haevy flamer, drop pod 195
Dreadnought w/ assault cannon heavy flamer, drop pod 160
Heavy Support
Achilles 300
Predator w/ HB sides, extra armor 100

In total its 1500

You still only have two DP's. This is going to feed your army piecemeal to your opponent.

Oh sorry I should say that the normal dread has a drop pod sorry bout that.

Well then, my only concern is the smaller tactical squad not really having any purpose other than to sit in a razorback. Also what is your 1k pts. list looking like? Are you only adding the 3 DP's when you go to 1500 Pts?

Well, thousand pts list has 1 maybe 2 needs to be revised.

MadMaverick76 wrote:Well then, my only concern is the smaller tactical squad not really having any purpose other than to sit in a razorback.

I don't see that as necessarily a bad thing... it makes the RB scoring. That is the cheapest way to do so in the SM codex, IIRC. Really though, if razorback spam is what you are shooting for, the BA codex has that in spades. Fast Razorbacks are quite nice.