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Back in January (Ep 47) the D6G team made some bold (crazy?) predictions of what would happen in 2010. Now it's time to see if they were right... at all. Did any of them get anything correct?

Later, the team dives in to Fantasy Flight Game's Sid Meier's Civilization board game. Does this version of the classic turn based 4x computer game finally get it right?

All that and our other not-too-horrible segments including:
- The Hollywood Minute
- What's in the News
- Do You Ever Notice
- Total Fan Girl
- & More


Please let us know what you think of the episode!

Link:
http://www.thed6generation.com/d6g-ep-69-forecasting-feats-or-failures-civilization-detailed-review

Fantastic episode - really one of the best, even without a killer interview. Great review, fun segments, and nice to hear some listener feedback and your reactions.

It's really nice to hear more from Craig, and hear that he is getting some hobby time now.

I really wish you would stop talking about Dystopian Wars, though... the last thing I need is another miniatures game to collect!

Russ and Craig - it would be very cool if you guys could post the Plano boxes that you found which worked best for certain games, or that bead box if you can find any info on it.

I have thought that I might make money developing a board game which is in fact, never played, but only ever set up, admired, then taken apart and carefully stored.

Thank you guys another good show. I want to start by asking Russ how can you deny your children the experience of South of the Border? Pedro says “Its Nacho favorite trip without stopping at South of the Border”.
In the prediction review segment I have to say that I am with Raef and his statement about Fantasy Flight Games. I think that what he might have meant is that they would be the benchmark for the gaming industry. Sales are not always the best measure of what the benchmark in a certain industry should be. I think that other companies strive to compete with Fantasy Flights quality.
If I remember correctly both Russ and Craig said that they would never use their phone as a camera. There was an article in the December 4th New York Times about the death of the point and shoot cameras. I realize that they will not be taking the place of a higher end camera but there is still a mingling of the technologies in one device. If you use iTV with an iphone you can drop a remote also.

Thanks for the kind words about the latest episode guys.

nathonicus:

Sorry buddy, we'll be talking about even more Dystopian Wars. And whatever you do, don't look at our twitter feed just full of pics of Dystopian vessels.

http://ow.ly/i/6bvv

I'm planning on a blog post in the near future outlining all the Plano I use in my various games. Stay tuned.

RSTauch
I fear I may have no choice on South of the Boarder, but I'll definitely try to set the girls up for disappointment.

FFG definitely has awesome quality, and I'm sure up and coming game designers look to them for ideas, but I'm not sure the industry as a whole looks at them as "The one true way" to build a game. But it's certainly an arguable point either way.

Camera: I actually still own a point and shoot Cannon camera. Nothing fancy, just a good digital camera. I also own an iPhone 4, which is generally considered to have one of the best phone camera's on the market.

Phones do take great pics... and there is an old saying: The best camera is the one you have with you. However phone camera's today still very slow at how long they take to become ready, how long they take between photos, and how good they are at taking a picture of a moving subject.

When taking photos of kids, pets, or sports, a phone camera simply does not work, and is far worse than even an average point and shoot camera.

I agree that all devices are doing more (i.e. TV's now can run apps and surf the internet) but we do not have convergence or even reduction. What we have is all devices do more, all devices are getting cheaper, and humans love multiple gizmo's.

Phones do great with driving directions... until you get into an area with bad cell service... then you better have a Tom Tom or a map. eReader sales are growing even though Kindle and nook apps are available on the iPhone, Android, and iPad. Heck, laptops have done all the above for years yet we've still invented eReaders, tablets, and GPS devices!

Just look at the kitchen. How many different kitchen gizmo's are sold every year that do only one thing? Even though you can cook just about anything with only a good set of knives, food processor/mixer, and oven/stove?

Hey guys - I'm not finished with the episode yet, I'm only about halfway through the segment on reviewing your 2010 predictions. I'm thinking that Raef was correct in his prediction that boardgaming would gain a broader acceptance. Check out this recent article in the Washington Post about Settlers of Catan:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/24/AR2010112404140.html

The article is a little over-the-top - I'm not sure I see the connection between Settlers and nuclear proliferation...but still, it's an article about a non-traditional board game in a major U.S. newspaper.

Also, I was noticing recently the number of games that the book store Borders had for sale. Not only did they have Settlers, they had Pandemic, Carcassone and even Battlestar Galactica. I picked up a little game called Forbidden Island there that I have yet to try. Seems like I'm seeing these "gamer game" for sale in more and more places outside the FLPGS lately...

Now, for you family trip Russ - I have no opinion either way on South of the Border. I think I went there when I was 10. But whatever you do - avoid the D.C.-to-Richmond section of I-95 during rush hour. And for the D.C. area, "rush hour" going south is gonna be from about 2 PM to 8 PM.

I've almost listened this to the end and have couple of points for the predictions.

Could you count the points of your correct predictions, without giving points on disagreeing with someone elses. As if the prediction has small chance of being right by going against you have high chance of being right.

I also have already bought Civ. Though I admit that I heard it in the last episode and immediately went to see if it's here, but took a while for it to arrive. This might have been affected by the fact that I decided to get the old and original civilization game for dos just day or two before the episode. The game is still great! For those interested, you need dos box to run it and civ 1 is abandonware so you can get that too from net, for example from here.

Master of Orion is also abandonware and still great. Oh the good old days when those were released .

I just finished the episode last night on my way home from my F-not-so-local-GS. Another winner.

I was interesting to have you guys revisit your predictions and speculations from January to see what came to pass and what hasn't...yet. I mean, Raef's got a couple years to go on some of his predictions, right? ;-)

I enjoyed listening to the Civ review...however it didn't make me any more interested in the game than I was before...which was not at all. I don't know. This one just doesn't grab me, and hasn't from the moment it was first announced. Just not my bag, I suppose. Which is fine. Would I turn down at game? No. But, neither would I seek one out. Ah well. Still an interesting and well done review. But, then, I'd expect no less. ;-)

I was reduced to giddy fanboy hearing my name in the Hollywood Minute. Thanks for the compliment on my avatar, Raef!

Regarding this ep's TFG segment, all I can say is: ditto! I've enjoyed TWD, but there's been a couple of "Wha? Huh?" moments. But, the good outweighs the bad.

I very much enjoyed Craig's Did You Ever Notice segment this time out (which is not intended to imply that I usually don't enjoy it. I just especially enjoyed this one). Having a) had a baby ('though that was 6 years ago now) and b) had life interfere with gaming I was able to relate and empathize with Craig's past few months. I'm glad things are changing and allowing you more time for your hobbies, Mr. Gallant.

But, BY FAR, my favorite part of the episode was the 12 Things in Gaming song at the close. Fantastic. Brilliant. Love it!

A very Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone at the D6G!

But Jeff... Civ has wheat. Wheat I tell you!

For those who may not be aware, the 12 Things in Gaming is a song we did a couple years ago and I try to put it on the end of a December episode each year.

There is also a companion video:
http://www.thed6generation.com/happy_holidays

Just listened to episode 69 (and am ashamed to admit it was the first one I have listened too). Good stuff, I really enjoyed the Civ review, now thinking about buying it......

Song at the end was great!

Better start listening to the rest of them now.... Nice work guys.

Finished the episode, and in honor of "Didya Ever Notice", I'm now sitting back drinking a nice steaming mug of "been there, done that".

Great episode, chaps, keep up the good work.

I think you're right about the WFRP 3rd issue; it used to be around £70 GBP in the UK. I picked up a copy the other day for £18.72 GBP including p&p. UK postage costs are pretty high, so this seems to be a case of clearing dead stock. Unfortunate, as it looks pretty cool.

BTW, where are the rules amendments for using the percentile system? online, or in a supplement.

Pelgrane wrote:BTW, where are the rules amendments for using the percentile system? online, or in a supplement.

Neither. They are releasing new "Guides" that have all the rules for the game and the summaries of all the cards from the base game. However it is still the same dice pool system. It just gives players the options to play without all the tokens and cards that come with the original version of the game.

Tor Gaming: Welcome!! Thanks for giving the show a try and glad you enjoyed it.

WHFB 3rd: We've been receiving a lot of e-mail about this. Apparently we overstated how much FFG is pulling back on WHFB RPG. They are selling elements separately now (i.e. individual books) and these new books allow you to "play with as many or few components as you wish."

However they've not tossed out their dice pool mechanics. You still need the fancy dice to play. It's just you don't need all the tokens, cards, and "board game style" components. All of these elements are now represented in tables in the books that can be randomized with D100 rolls.

We'll be sure to clear this up next episode.

Great show as usual. Civilization sounds awesome, but the 3 hour game length will keep me away from it for a while as life is kind of busy right now.

TFG echoed a lot of my feelings about The Walking Dead. I like the show and am looking forward to the new season, but want I them to go the extra mile and have things make a little more sense... Here are some of the things I had issues with:



I was surprised to hear that you were playing the clix version of Crimson Skies. I know it bombed, but I'm surprised to hear it was a good game. I'd heard good things about the original mini version, but never heard anything about the clix edition. What makes it fun and what would someone need to get started? I'd imagine there's a ton of stuff out there that's inexpensive.

Russ, do you have any recommendations for iPod touch apps? I'm getting an iPhone 3 from my sister when she upgrades to the iPhone 4 and I'll just be using as an iPod, but I'm looking forward to being able to use apps and wanted a good idea of useful ones in general and for gamers specifically.

Craig, I have a 1.5 month old little girl (and a 2 year old girl too) and I can totally relate to DYEN this time. I actually was able to get some hobby time in the first few weeks due to the baby sleeping really well, but now things are starting to change partially because our big girl is not going to sleep as early as before and my wife needs extra help around the house due to how difficult it is during the day with the two girls. Things will calm down eventually, but I just have to keep reminding myself that this is only temporary and that my hobby is really nowhere near as important as my family.

@bbb

A spoilier filled response



I am desperately hoping that they stop being so sloppy next season. There are some great storylines to persue, interesting characters and lots of issues to explore and resolve, but when the writing got careless it really hurt the show. I am looking forward to next season, with my fingers crossed>

nicolewakelin wrote:I am desperately hoping that they stop being so sloppy next season. There are some great storylines to persue, interesting characters and lots of issues to explore and resolve, but when the writing got careless it really hurt the show. I am looking forward to next season, with my fingers crossed>

I'm still trying to figure out if it's the show that's good or my interest in a well told post-apocalyptic story (zombies or whatever reason) that makes me like the show and want to see it continue. That there hasn't been more "nerd rage" about the show's flaws amazes me. There's a long time before we get to season 2, so I'm hoping they can realize the mistakes of season 1 and fix them.

One thing I'd really like to see more of is how the outbreak spread so quickly and how society collapsed so rapidly. It seems like it's only been 2 months since everything went downhill and I want to see what the progression was. I also think there'd be a few pockets of military forces that would have survived, especially in the navy. I doubt any of that would be addressed to a large scale, but I'm looking foward to any tidbits of info they pass on to us.

Another great show guys! Thank you so much for making my commute bearable!

-Don't understand why everyone gives Mr. Granger so much flak. D6G needs all 3 hosts and without all 3 hosts - I'd stop listening.

-Is France one of the playable factions in Civilization? That's a big factor in my decision to buy it.

-Flames of War? Please?

To the D6 Crew - I've been meaning to make my way over to the forums here, and finally did so. I wanted to thank you for continuing to produce the best general gaming podcast out there right now.

Once again, great show. Loved everything - especially the song at the end.

Keep up the great work!

Mark

BrotherAtrox wrote:
-Don't understand why everyone gives Mr. Granger so much flak. D6G needs all 3 hosts and without all 3 hosts - I'd stop listening.

While I wouldn't go so far as to say I'd stop listening, I agree that Raef is a valuable part of the D6 team. He brings a different perspective to the table that I appreciate.

One of the strengths of the D6G is the diversity of it's hosts. While Russ and Craig's tastes tend to run a bit closer together, there's still a nice variety of interests, preferences and personalities that always keeps things interesting.

One thing I'd like to see is more reviews of some smaller minis games that have come out recently such as:

• Freebooter's Fate
• Avatars of War
• MERCS
• Pulp City

or even an older game like Corvus Belli's Infinity

But, I don't know how practical that is. It would mean putting out for rulebooks, minis and the time to learn entirely new systems that they might not other be interested in. Don't know what the solution is outside of guest reviewers.

I feel myself slipping off into tangent territory here, so I'll draw this to a close.

I'd be interested in an interview with the Avatars of War folks especially since they're expanding into plastics. A review of the game would fit a very small niche since most people just use their minis for other games, specifically Warhammer.

bbb wrote:I'd be interested in an interview with the Avatars of War folks especially since they're expanding into plastics. A review of the game would fit a very small niche since most people just use their minis for other games, specifically Warhammer.

Fantastic idea!

In lieu of reviews, I'd love to hear interviews with any of the folks I mentioned above...especially the Freebooter's Fate folks ('cause I'm on a pirate kick right now!)...

@bbb

The interesting thing is, the graphic novels have been strayed from quite a bit, which makes some very upset. I didn't read them, but....

Thanks for the kind words again!

Quick responses:

Civ: France is not a playable faction in the Civ board game ... yet. The game design easily lends itself to expansions.

Flames of War: We've reviewed Flames of War in two parts in ep 45 & 46


Other mini games: These are tricky for reasons mentioned. Craig did just get in a demo of Infinity and we briefly discuss it next episode, along with a detailed review of a new miniatures game that just released. (You can guess it if you follow us on Twitter)

We do like to interview folks about other games, such as our interview about Mantic's new game Kings of War. But covering a full miniature game to the level of detail we've done for Privateer, GW, Spartan, Wyrd, and Battlefront is tough so it really needs to be a game we'd want to invest in for our personal collection.

Fortunately we are huge magpie gamers and therefore end up with a lot of miniature games anyway.

Just a wonderful episode, guys! Probably your best so far.

Your listener callouts in the Hollywood minute were great- its great to feel like part of a community.
Raef, in your shoutout you mentioned my post about the Agricola review. I'm sorry I said you were going into "Moron Mode". I am a gigantic jerk. I am getting Agricola from a Eurogamer friend this holiday, however! Very excited to try it out- that means you will get the last laugh.

Great Civ review- I absolutely loved listening to it. Russ' enthusiasm for Civ was off the chart ("this one goes to 11"). It was very entertaining, and needless to say I bought it (though have not yet played it).

A few show ideas:
1-Compare/contrast "Civ" with "7 Wonders"? I'm very interested in this new game and its take on the "Civ" theme

2- D6G Holiday buyers guide. 3 categories: if your gift recipient is a Craig (a Raef, or a Russ), what would be a good gaming-related gift (preferably something current & supported) in 3 categories: 1) up to $20, 2) $20-75, 3) $75+

3- Alessio mentioned he did contract work for Warlord games(?). I'd love to hear an interview with Warlord about Historical wargames (since they make models for a variety of historical periods)
a) What are the most popular Historical Rulesets (across all periods)?
b) How big is the market (how many gamers are out there) for Ancients? WW2? Napoleonics? ECW? American Civil War, etc.? Rekative to each other and the mainstream games...
c) Why is the market so fragmented between manufacturers, rules, terrain, etc?
d) What should you do to start in any historical period?
e) Predictions for the Historical minis marketplace?
f) Plans for the future?
I'd also like to ask them: "Whats the state of WW2 mini wargaming? What is the popularty of FOW doing to miniature manufacturers/ruleset publishers?"

Keep up the great work, and thanks for greating a great podcast and a fun community of gamers!

Happy Holidays!

RussWakelin wrote:
Other mini games: These are tricky for reasons mentioned. Craig did just get in a demo of Infinity and we briefly discuss it next episode, along with a detailed review of a new miniatures game that just released. (You can guess it if you follow us on Twitter)

As someone who has been mildly interested in the games by Spartan Games due to the beautiful miniatures, but has never gotten around to purchase any of them, I would like any talk of Dystopian Wars to contrast the game to the other two Spartan games as all three seem very similar. Which is your favorite? Which has the best models? Which is more newbie friendly? Which is the most popular?

Hey Guys:

Thanks all for the nod for my continuance in the D6G it really is a team affair, but thanks I do appreciate hearing I'd be missed.

Thanks too Sawtooth, I actually like your honest forums posts. Sometimes I do slip into moron mode.

Flames of War rocks. I am really enjoying playing it again and Dystopian Wars is also feeding that FOW itch as well.

Stay tuned for twitter posts on my progress with that game. Other than that I do read all the posts so keep 'em up!

Raef

LawnDart wrote:As someone who has been mildly interested in the games by Spartan Games due to the beautiful miniatures, but has never gotten around to purchase any of them, I would like any talk of Dystopian Wars to contrast the game to the other two Spartan games as all three seem very similar. Which is your favorite? Which has the best models? Which is more newbie friendly? Which is the most popular?

When we discuss DW (coming as soon as tonight?!?) we will contrast which elements are shared/similar to other Spartan games.

But for quick answers:


- Which is your favorite? I still love and collect all three (just got a new balloon for Uncharted, Got a new fleet for Firestorm, and DW) but I'd say Dystopian War's uniqueness and ability to model a wide variety of combat captures my imagination the most.


- Which has the best models? It's mostly based on personal pref, and there are awesome models in all three ranges. However in terms of pure quality and level of detail DW is the best.

- Which is more newbie friendly? The rules get more complex with each game, Uncharted is simpliest, then Firestorm. Dystopian Wars is the most complex of the bunch, although not brutally so.

- Which is the most popular? It is way too early to say. In our local group Uncharted seemed to find more long term traction than Firestorm. The current interest level in Dystopian Wars is very high, but I can't tell if that's just "new hotness" or a genuine appeal to the unique theme and steam punk nature of the game.

We'll keep ya updated on that going forward.

Thanks for listening and be on the lookout for a new episode in the next 24 hours!

Russ,

I'm glad to see that the WFRP confusion has been sorted out. Like Raef, I picked up the box set last year, but I haven't put in action yet and was certainly concerned by what I heard in this episode.

The good news is that my post-podcast research turned up a few useful nuggets on the new books and boxes:

1. The guides do not only cover the original box set, but they also compile material from the six expansions released in the last year. It's not clear to me whether the Player's Vault includes the expansion components as well - I've read conflicting reports..

2. The Creature Guide includes a bunch of new monsters in addition to the monsters from the core set and the published adventures. The Creature Vault includes summary cards for all creatures. These sound like the products with the most appeal for existing players - I'd bet this was already being planned as a separate product before the re-release was decided upon.

Hope that helps!
Shawn


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nicolewakelin wrote:@bbb

The interesting thing is, the graphic novels have been strayed from quite a bit, which makes some very upset. I didn't read them, but....

Spoiler:

They say no one really knows how it happened, or at least they don't really tell you in the novels. There are also no flashbacks (like seeing the hospital fall to pieces in the finale) so that's a completely new feature of the show. I would really love to know how it happened, and how it went so darned fast! Those questions will keep me waiting for next season anxiously!

Hi Nicole,

I've been reading the comics for several years, and I can confirm that a lot of material was added to season one that did not appear in the first arc of the comic. They didn't really cut anything out, and the core themes are intact. I think they added the extra stuff in part to rein in the budget by limiting the number of locations - the survivors are hitting the road in the next arc. Personally, I enjoy it when they go off the beaten path a bit ... it lets me feel the the tension that I sometimes miss when they recreate events I read five years ago.

As for the final episode: