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I have a unit of 25 Orcs. Im not sure if choppa, 2 choppas, or a spear with shields for all would be worth it. Im also thinking to turn them to Big'Uns for the +1WS and +1S.

any thoughts?

Definitely not spears. Not worth it.
Shields are good especially on basic boyz as it makes the unit more durable. Cheaper option too. I run a unit of 25 with shields, sometimes. It's a cheap tarpit that can do some damage to similar units.
If I was going big uns, I'd give them two choppas. Just to maximise the offensive output. The downside is, they cost a bomb that way and they're still only wearing light armour with I2, so you're going to take some causulties.
What else do you have in your army? That context could be the decider. (Large units of orcs look great though. I like 5x5 just for visuals).

My army is mostly night goblins.. I started playing with the skull pass set. I have a few Lords and heros witch very from game to game but this is my bulk.

Orcs -x25 --- full command ( the unit in question )
shields

Night goblins -x30 --- full command
Spears
Shields
Nets
3x Fanatic

Night goblins -x30 --- full command
Spears
Shields
Nets
3x Fanatic

Night goblins -x40 --- full command
Bows
Nets

Forest goblin spider riders- -x20 -- full command

Goblin spear chukka

Goblin Rock lobber

Black Orcs - x20 -- full command
noggs banner of butchery
shields

Orc Boar chariot

Orc Boar chariot

troll ( ussualy stone )

Giant

If you've got the black orcs in there as a smashy unit, maybe you don't need the dual choppa orcs. But along with that, gobbos with spears, nets and fanatics are excellent, cost effective anvils. I'm a bit torn!
You've used Nogg's Banner on the Black Orcs, which is good. Makes their first impact quite nasty. If you run the orcs with two choppas and as big uns, consider the Waaagh Banner- the chance to pull off a 4D6+4 inch charge on the waaagh turn is well worth it, as it provides an unexpected tactical advantage.
I have only played a couple of games of 8th with my orcs sadly (they were my main army in 7th and 6th but I haven't had time to play much recently) and I used both shield and dual choppa orcs in those games. What I found was that the dual choppa boyz struggled to inflict as many causulties as I needed to make up for their relative frailty when you consider their cost, whereas the basic shield and choppa boyz didn't excel as such as they got the job done with no fuss. I think my rolls might not have been the best though, and I still hadn't got my head around some of the dynamic of 8th at that stage, so perhaps the dual choppas have a place. I've never run dual choppa basic boyz, they would be cheap and reasonably dangerous, though.

I think ill go shield and choppa. better armor and a parry save. but the extra 100 points to make them Big uns might be worth it. hitting with S6 the first round with +1WS would be nice. Ill hold back on that until I get a chance to play them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im also thinking of using grimgor in my black orcs and giving them shields for added protection from shooting. One of the guys I play alot uses High Elves and throws out a ton and a half arrows.

Matt65 wrote:I think ill go shield and choppa. better armor and a parry save. but the extra 100 points to make them Big uns might be worth it. hitting with S6 the first round with +1WS would be nice. Ill hold back on that until I get a chance to play them.

Big uns with choppas are S5 in the first round. Orcs are S3, S4 for big'uns, and choppas give +1 strength (2 choppas give +1 attacks, and +1 strength, not +2 strength).

IMO, dual choppas is best on savage orcs, where you can't parry anyway.
Light Armor and Shield gives you a pretty durable unit (T4, 5+ armor, 6+ parry) for only 6points a model! You can be big enough to strip steadfast, and you might do enough damage in the first round to break an opponent. Against things you don't win against, you should be large enough to be steadfast.

Spears are garbage on orcs; much better on night goblins.



-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Big uns with choppas are S5 in the first round. Orcs are S3, S4 for big'uns, and choppas give +1 strength (2 choppas give +1 attacks, and +1 strength, not +2 strength).

sorry. for some reason I added the +1 twice. Painting too many Orcs, the fumes are getting to me lol.

I think I'll go with what your all telling me, shield and choppa for the durability at a cheap price. 180pts for the unit. 280pts for big uns witch is about 19 points difference from my unit of 20 Black orcs.

I just played a game last night against some high elves and the dual choppas worked out really well. As far as I could tell as long as you get enough boyz in there to get their attacks then they should be able to smash a fair ammount of units apart. Just make sure you have enough to survive that first round of combat without being useless the next turn.

I personally go choppa and shields because of the parry save but if you are going to use the additional hw i would say have a fairly big unit to soak up casualties

I have one large unit which is equipped with dual choppas, partly because it was vreated in 7th ed but partly because it can deal out a lot of damage. I don't use it as a tarpit, i have NGs for that. However i plan, later, to include a unit with shileds and choppas, it gives a 5+ save and a 6+ ward and still S4 on the charge.

So, im torn, i'd like to say you should go with two choppas as you have lots of NG tarpits, but dual choppa units work best with large units, mine is 31 strong and in an 8x4 formation (with a big boss inside them). It depends what you use them for really, as you have a tarpit (NG) and a hammer like unit (Black Orcs) already.

I would stray away from Big'Uns unless you are going to give them Mork's Spirit Totem and stick them at the back of the board

I love big 'uns with double choppas, but they're too expensive for what you get. Regular orcs with shield are a tough anvil to absorb charges.

I'm toying with the idea of an elite infantry army list what would look very much like:

1 BIG unit of big 'uns w/double choppas
2 smaller (still 25+ each) units of black orcs
1 orc great shaman lv3
1 goblin great shaman lv3
1 black orc character big boss for every orc unit

Spend the rest (whatever is left, anyway) in artillery, goblin units to cover the flanks and make up for the core minimum, etc.

You have three infantry units that deliver 2xAt at St5 on the first round. Suitably powered by magic (ASF, rerolls, etc., that's why there are so many points sunk in magic).

I'll probably test this in a 2000pt tourney coming soon (though for this list, 2500pt would be better), I'll let you know wether I'm right or smashed to smitherens as usual

jouso wrote:
I love big 'uns with double choppas, but they're too expensive for what you get. Regular orcs with shield are a tough anvil to absorb charges.

I'm toying with the idea of an elite infantry army list what would look very much like:

1 BIG unit of big 'uns w/double choppas
2 smaller (still 25+ each) units of black orcs
1 orc great shaman lv3
1 goblin great shaman lv3
1 black orc character big boss for every orc unit

Spend the rest (whatever is left, anyway) in artillery, goblin units to cover the flanks and make up for the core minimum, etc.

You have three infantry units that deliver 2xAt at St5 on the first round. Suitably powered by magic (ASF, rerolls, etc., that's why there are so many points sunk in magic).

I'll probably test this in a 2000pt tourney coming soon (though for this list, 2500pt would be better), I'll let you know wether I'm right or smashed to smitherens as usual

A level 3 might not get you the spells you want. Dual choppas are better on savages, where 3 points gets you a ward save, an extra attack, and immune to psych (from frenzy).

I can't wait for plastic savage orcs.
MSU + Frenzy + dual choppas.
You MUST have the waaaagh spell, and you want Bash'em ladz as a back up.

So:
Lords:
Orc Great Shaman (level 4), mounted on orc chariot
Orc Great Shaman (level 3) mounted on orc chariot
(this gives you all 6 spells, and the #1 spell twice, and avoids any chance of fluke spell generation that prevents you from getting waaaagh)

Core:
6x12 Savages with extra choppa, 4 units have standards (24 S4 attacks)
12 Savage Orc Big'uns, extra choppas, standard (24 S5 attacks)

Specials:
3x12 Black Orcs, musicians, standard (18 S5 attacks)
3 Orc Chariots
3 Goblin Chariots

2399 points.

8 chariots, 6 brutals units, 4 very brutal units; and a level 4 and level 3.
No BSB, because you don't care about panic or losing combat (proper use of size matters, goblin chariots in front of orc chariots, black orcs as rear guard, wizards hiding till late in the game).
It should do very well against an opponent that has build a list to kill death stars.


-Matt