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Title says it all. As is, they have to rely on a ridiculously average number of attacks, a low toughness, and an meq-equivalent strength... Only without the armor save! Sure, they've got move through cover, stealth, fleet, and infiltrate, so it's not unheard of to get them into combat, but the fact remains that they are a close-combat choice that is just bad in close combat.

Their one gimmick, that balefire attack, relies on them actually taking out a squad first, which just exacerbates the problem. Also, the shooting attack isn't particularly amazing at all. Seems to me like there wasn't much thought put into these guys.

Personally, I'd like to see power weapons at least as an upgrade, or perhaps rending. Either would be fine with me. Perhaps the unit gains power weapons after they gain a pain token? That would at least fit their general combat role.

Anyway, thoughts?

Give them power weapons as default, maybe increase the price a bit, call it a day.

I dont like the power weapon idea, then they are too much like Incubi

Rending, yeah that seems to make sense fluffwise, they are kinda beasty.

How about giving them stealth, so they always have a cover save but they also improve the cover they might be in?

The special rule Stealth already improves any cover save that they might have... Do you mean that there should instead be a second rule with a name like 'Shadowfade' or something that gives them a constant cover save?

I don't know if that would make much sense. They've already got a 5+ invulnerable save, so giving them a constant cover save, while very fluffy, would be a bit redundant, except against flamers and the like.

I do like the rending idea. I also feel that power weapons make them a bit too much like sneaky Incubi. I wouldn't mind if they had maybe a step higher initiative, too. I mean, look at genestealers. While there are choices like that running around in ravening hordes, Mandrakes just seem underpowered.

4+ invul against shooting, 5+ invul in close combat. Always Night Fighting against them. Drop Stealth. Keep points the same. Done.

Give them Rending and have them start with a Pain Token, makes them choppy enough to actually do what they are intended to do and solves some survivability issues as well. Oh and on a related note change Decapitator so he is an IC.

Like 90% of terrible things in 40k, they don't need additional or modified rules to be useful; they only need to have the right cost.

10 points per Mandrake fixes everything.

DarknessEternal wrote:Like 90% of terrible things in 40k, they don't need additional or modified rules to be useful; they only need to have the right cost.

10 points per Mandrake fixes everything.

Not really. the Elites slot for DE is super competitive. Even cheap Mandrakes are still a crap unit.

I like that always Night Fighting rule against them. That is a damn cool and fluffy rule that could come in handy.

I also agree with Kheradrhuakh being an Independent Character, although that does bring up issues with his special deployment rule. A Mandrake squad would have to be allowed to be placed with him, and that's honestly just a bit unbalanced.

All I ask is for the night fiend to have access to rending. Preferably a power weapon but rending would be fine by me. Im stubborn so I find ways to use my mandrakes cause they look so cool, but rending on the nightfiend would be sooo nice.

What ways do you use them? I'm struggling to find them useful, myself, but I also refuse to not bring them to a battle on account of the models.

I figure that attacking and trying to wipe out a small squad of GEQ in order to gain a quick pain token would be a good bet, then hoping they survive the next wave of horrifying shooting and/or assaults. (I'm infiltrating them here)

Griever wrote:
Not really. the Elites slot for DE is super competitive. Even cheap Mandrakes are still a crap unit.

They wouldn't be crap. They'd still be the only infiltrators available. And their interaction with terrain counts for something.

I'm not saying they'd be godly if they were just cheaper, but they'd certainly have some value.