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I hosted a 1500pt tournament at my house today and a few buddies came over for some pizza, beer and 40K (although I drank most of the beer!)

The format was book missions, Swiss, random pairings. Strictly W/L, ties were broken by victory points. Everyone bought in $10 and the one player to go undefeated (3-0) would take the pot.

I brought my bugs to mix things up from my usual Bjorn Wolves.

My List:

HQ
Prime: Lash, Sword, D.Spitter

Elites
Zoey
H.Guard x 3
Ymgarl x 7

Troops
Genesteelers x 16
Genesteelers x 16
Termagants x 24

Heavy:
Trygon Prime: A.Glands
Trygon: A. Glands

Game 1
Pitched Battle Capture and Control
Opponent: Defeatmyarmy's Bling Wing, Blood Angels

HQ
Dante
Librarian: T.Armor, S.Shield, Epistolary

Elites
Furioso Librarian Dread: Shackle Soul, Lance, D.Pod, Deathwind

Troops
Sanguinary Guard: I.Pistol x 3
Sanguinary Guard: I.Pistol x 2
Sanguinary Guard: I.Pistol x 2

Fast
Speeder: HF/MM

I got first turn and my opponent chose to reserve his entire army. I infiltrated my Steelers onto his objective and reserved my Gants who came on the corner with my objective and sat on it all game (as they do). My opponent was still learning his army and made a number of mistakes, plus his list was a bit unfocused. Beyond that, it was a bad match-up for him. I have played the Bling Wing list a number of times with my bugs and have just murdered them every time. They simply don't do well against an army that is superior in HtH.

So, long story short, his units deep struck, shot to little effect, got assaulted by Trygons and Genesteers who swing first and ignore their FnP and 2+ and got eaten. By game's end I had both objectives. I believe he would have done a lot better not deep-striking, but it was effectively a learning game. Victory to the bugs!

Game 2
Dawn of War, Seize Ground
Opponent: Nuclear's Footdar, Eldar

HQ
Eldrad
Avatar

Elites
Harlies x 9: Seer, Kisses

Troops
Rangers x 5
Dires x 10
Jetbikes x 3: S.Cannon
Guardians x 10: Warlock, Spear, Destructor, S.Cannon

Heavy
W.Walkers x 3: S.Lasers
W.Lord: EML, B.Lance
W.Lord: EML, B.Lance


Nuclear is a very good player and his Footdar are similar to my own. Since I was running an all infantry list (as Bugs do!) I knew I had to be very careful or get hosed by Footdar flak fire. I got first turn and deployed my Gants in a line along the center of the board to force the Eldar back away from the objectives, planning to then pull them back onto an objective in my half of the board. Nuclear kept everything but his Guardians and Eldrad off-board. He then proceeded to steal the initiative from me.

The game was a good one, with both of us dancing around the other's threat ranges. Nuclear needed to get close to hit me with a Doom/Guide/Shuricat combo, and I needed to get close to gear up for a multi-assault, but we each wanted to get into threat range first. We didn't to much damage to each other until turn 3 when I had gotten my units in position to assault. I shot his W.Walkers with my H.Guard and then rushed him with my Trygon Prime, a Unit of Stealers and the Ymgarls. I did fair damage to him, killing the Guardians and Dires, but he counter attacked with his W.Lords, Avatar and Harlies. The Harlies went on a rampage, and with fortune and doom went through 16 genesteelers, 7 Ymgarl and into another unit of 16 Steelers before finally being killed by them. I had to feed him another Trygon after the prime fell to stall his big push on the two objectives I held. He rushed me with everything he had on his last turn but I held up his avatar with the Zoey and the Steelers killed his Bike's who went in to contest one of my objectives. The Gants sat on the objective (as they do) all game and soaked a ton of fire but on the last turn were still standing firm with 5 models left. When it was all said and done, the bugs took it 2 objectives to 1.

Stealing the initiative actually hurt Nuclear this game as he didn't have any models on board to take advantage of it (being DoW) and I didn't have any guns to shoot at him. Had he gone second, he would have at worst tied me by contesting an objective with his Bikes. But, lesson learned. It was a very good, bloody, close game that came down to the last few dice rolls. Had his Avatar killed my Zoey and rolled well on his consolidate, he would have tied me.

Game 3
Spearhead, Annihilation
Opponent: White925's Mech Guard

HQ
CCS: M.Gun x 2, L.Cannons, Chimera

Elites
Inquisitor: Emp. Tarrot
PBS x 4: Chimera

Trrops
Veterans: P.Gun x 3, L.Cannon, Chimera
Veterans: P.Gun x 3, L.Cannon, Chimera
Veterans: P.Gun x 3, L.Cannon, Chimera

Fast
Vendetta
Vendetta

Heavy
Manticore
Manticore


So, White925 and I meet again, and this time in the championship match for all the marbles. White925 is a very good player and his list had all the tools to crush mine. I didn't think I stood much of a chance unless I played very well and had more than a little luck. The one thing I had going for me was that he had so many more kill points than I did (his 15 to my 9). He got first turn due to his Emperor's Tarrot and seeing that he could shoot me to bits in one go, I opted to reserve everything and chose not to seize, forcing him to lose two turns of shooting.

I suicided nearly everything, hoping to take more KPs down with me than I gave up. My plan worked as the dice gods really smiled on me. Everything I shot, I killed. I assaulted his tanks and wrecked them. I got 6's for my fleet rolls nearly every time, it was pretty crazy. My army ended up tearing through his, wholesale. Genesteelers were multi-assaulting tanks and damaging nearly everything I hit. White925 did his best to target vulnerable KPs but my dice were so red-hot there wasn't much to be done. In the end, my strategy and good luck won me the game, 10 KP to 4. I was pretty pleased with this as I thought it was going to be a very difficult battle.


So, I ended up winning the tournament and getting the $90 pot, which was a bit weird as I hosted the event. But, everyone was cool with it as I had bought all the pizza for everyone out of my own pocket and had purchased terrain and tables just for the day. So, in the end, I ended up nearly breaking even on what I had put into it, and all my guests got 3 good games and pizza out of it, so I all was well.

The list did well, I am very pleased with it. I have been playing the bugs a lot lately and have found this list to be my favorite combo. I don't like Tervigons as Janthkin and I discussed, they are a unit you bring to play defensively whereas Genesteelers are a unit you bring to play offensively. The cheap little 120 point Gant squad performs great as an objective camper that is far harder to kill than a Tervigon (24 wounds to 6), although they admittedly contribute a lot less. The only game I have lost with this style list so far has been at 2000pts to Daemons as I was just outclassed in assault.

We had a good mix or armies, too.

Bling Wing
Space Marines
Mech Guard x 2
Footdar
Tyranids
Ork Horde
Speed Freaks
Dark Eldar

On the whole, a fun event and I need to finish painting my bugs so that I can take them to a proper GT.

Thanks for reading.

Interesting list Reece. Thanks for the read. You'll probably see my Nids at Adepticon. I've gotten bitten by the....bug...

Good job Reece. If you're going to the Game Kastle tournament, you'll see my nids there as well.

@Hulk

Hahaha, well played! Yeah, I am really enjoying the bugs lately. My plan to make a competitive list without Tervigons is working out well, so far. I have played some tough lists, too so I feel pretty confident about it.

@jy2

Thanks, and yeah, we are about to head out the door to the tournament. See you there!

How is that one zoan working for you?

I can see a 1,500pt list without a Tervi but I'm not seeing it any higher. Good luck with that though. I'm sad because I was gonna test out a different, no Trygon build this weekend but I can't find my two other Carnies for what I wanted to use

Oh well, Maybe the bugs will run into you Wolves at Adepticon

Hulksmash wrote:I can see a 1,500pt list without a Tervi but I'm not seeing it any higher. Good luck with that though. I'm sad because I was gonna test out a different, no Trygon build this weekend but I can't find my two other Carnies for what I wanted to use

Oh well, Maybe the bugs will run into you Wolves at Adepticon

what carnifex build were you going to try? devourer carni's? HVC?

It was a toss up Mafty. It was either gonna be dual devourer or it was gonna be devourer/crushing claws But I can't find the bastards anywhere. I might have left them at a family members house from when I first got to minnesota but I won't be able to get my hands on them before Saturday Still gonna run some nids. I gots Ideas!!!!!!

But everybody knows tyranids can't win. Ever. All these wins are from bad dice rolls, or crappy players, or um..um too much terrain... yeah that.

Good job showing that Tyranids can and do win games.

Hulksmash wrote:It was a toss up Mafty. It was either gonna be dual devourer or it was gonna be devourer/crushing claws But I can't find the bastards anywhere. I might have left them at a family members house from when I first got to minnesota but I won't be able to get my hands on them before Saturday Still gonna run some nids. I gots Ideas!!!!!!

Yea, I like the idea of primes with a single carnifex. seems neat to me. Or even a prime and 2 carnifexs. but then the points get really high doing that. I wish the carnis were less points, have a hard time justifying them for their points.

sexiest_hero wrote:But everybody knows tyranids can't win. Ever. All these wins are from bad dice rolls, or crappy players, or um..um too much terrain... yeah that.

Good job showing that Tyranids can and do win games.

for what its worth, I dont think nids have won any GTs yet. Or atleast any GTs ive read results for. And to be even more fair, nids arent usually even in top 50%. Now this is GT results, not RTT......

Your tourney was invalid. There were no Space Wolves :-p

Just kidding, if those dudes that came down with you are any indication of the quality of player you have up there I am sure that the games were all great!

Thanks for posting, and it is interesting to see a resurgence of interest in the nids all around.

Yeah, Nids can compete, they just aren't the press go army they were in 4th with Nidzilla. Well, they weren't press go then either, but they were a lot easier to play then.

I love playing bugs as it is so much more challenging but still works well.

@Hulk
I have only lost 1 game at 2K so far with that list (adding 2 Zoeys and a Fexstar with twin devourers). Daemons beat me as they were just better in HtH.

Tervies are good but honestly, I don't see them as mandatory. I would rather have more offense. Tervies soak up so many points and really don't add that much, IMO. They can be shut down with psychic powers and don't hit very hard in combat. Better to take more hard hitting bodies, IMO.

@Sexiest_Hero
When he worked, he was great. In KP games he has sucked so far. In Objective games he is great as a general PITA unit that forces the enemy to deal with him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Smonicide
Yeah, everyone there was good. We had one new player who was still learning his army, but other than that, it was all really tough comp. We had a fun time for sure, and most everyone brought an army they don't normally play to mix things up a bit which made it good fun.

Reecius wrote:@Hulk
I have only lost 1 game at 2K so far with that list (adding 2 Zoeys and a Fexstar with twin devourers). Daemons beat me as they were just better in HtH.

Tervies are good but honestly, I don't see them as mandatory. I would rather have more offense. Tervies soak up so many points and really don't add that much, IMO. They can be shut down with psychic powers and don't hit very hard in combat. Better to take more hard hitting bodies, IMO.

Things I like about Tervigons, in order:
1) More scoring units on-demand;
2) More assault units on-demand (poisoned FC 'gants are the answer to many units, including some that were giving you trouble yesterday);
3) Target saturation contribution - enemies have to consider how to kill Tervigons, instead of other, more lethal portions of the list, because you just can't ignore something that does #1 & #2; and
4) Catalyst for turn 1 (sometimes turn 2, as well) - when FNP'ing a large unit of genestealers, or a 'fex star, or even some Gargoyles, the first turn is most important, and the second turn is nice if you can get it. Only Eldar & *hunters lists have full-board anti-psychic coverage available; against everyone else, you should almost always get 1 turn's worth of FNP off.

Things I don't like about Tervigons:
A) Random 'gant spawnings makes #2 less reliable than I'd like;
B) Init 1; and
C) I could have another 11 poisonous 'stealers instead.

So far, my Tervigon-including lists are more successful than those that lack them.

You make some excellent points, Janthkin. You also know the book a heck of a lot better than I do as I have a fraction of the games under my belt that you do.

Perhaps I will run a Tervie in my next RTT and see how much I like him. I have just been unimpressed with him in general, so far, although that could definitely be due to a lack of experience with the unit.

While uber-killy beast he is not, I think the contributions of the tervigon to the overall army is much more important than what it can contribute directly to the offense, just like Fateweaver, KFF Big Mek, Null Zone librarian, Sanguinary Priests, etc. Basically he is a force multiplier, making your nid army even tougher and better.

That said, he isn't for every list. For your stealer shock list, he really isn't necessary as mostly your genestealers infiltrate and/or outflank and won't be able to receive his benefits. But imagine this - take out the zoey, 1 ymgarl, 1 gene from each unit and 13 termagants and you can then take tervigon with catalyst. You haven't really lost much from your offense, but now you've gained a much tougher scoring unit that is very resilient and can buff up your Hive Guards with FNP. Just a thought.

You guys have convinced me. I will try him out in my list. I will just proxy a Carnie for Tervigon and see how he does. I play against them all the time though, and rarely feel that terribly impressed by them, but it is definitely worth experimenting with, at the least.

As someone who plays against them often, they are a pain. The tervigons themselves would be a much lower priority, but the fact that they keep creating new scoring units means you have to deal with them - especially if they go a turn or two without creating a new one.

I personally wouldn't upgrade the termagants - if you do then the tervie becomes a higher priority because within 6" she causes the babies to pop. Best keep her cheap and easy...

Somnicide wrote:Best keep her cheap and easy...

Ah yes, cheap and easy, just the way I like em!

You must have a big house?

- Why the Tyranid Prime instead of a Hive Tyrant?
- Why one squad of 24 Termies instead of 2x 12?
- Is one Zoey really worth it?
- Why not more Ymgarls?!?!
- Wouldn't "Hive Commander" (Or whatever rule adds 1 to reserves) work better for such an army?

whitedragon wrote:- Why not more Ymgarls?!?!

I'm going to answer this one, 'cause it's at least partially my fault. I've found the sweet spot for Ymgarls to be a single unit in the 7-8 range, and I've been bullying Reecius about his Tyranids for months now.

A single unit accomplishes a lot of what you want Ymgarls to do - they screw with your opponent's deployment and early-game movement, as he must anticipate a unit of nastier-than-usual genestealers popping out of area terrain and assaulting up to 18" away; more than one unit doesn't really increase that aspect of their utility, and eats up a valuable Elites slot.

7-8 is enough that you can hit a single target (Lash prince, Long fangs, Lootas, Broadsides, etc.) and have a pretty solid shot at killing it. Fewer, and you bounce off of things like Daemon Princes. More costs more points, and doesn't help too much when your opponent responds by dropping a house on them; you can't count on having enough left to be a significant threat after the initial assault ends. Plus, at 23 pts/model, the difference between 7 and 10 is a full Zoanthrope, or another Hiveguard, or another 14 termagants, or 8-9 gargoyles.

Janthkin wrote:

whitedragon wrote:- Why not more Ymgarls?!?!

I'm going to answer this one, 'cause it's at least partially my fault. I've found the sweet spot for Ymgarls to be a single unit in the 7-8 range, and I've been bullying Reecius about his Tyranids for months now.

A single unit accomplishes a lot of what you want Ymgarls to do - they screw with your opponent's deployment and early-game movement, as he must anticipate a unit of nastier-than-usual genestealers popping out of area terrain and assaulting up to 18" away; more than one unit doesn't really increase that aspect of their utility, and eats up a valuable Elites slot.

7-8 is enough that you can hit a single target (Lash prince, Long fangs, Lootas, Broadsides, etc.) and have a pretty solid shot at killing it. Fewer, and you bounce off of things like Daemon Princes. More costs more points, and doesn't help too much when your opponent responds by dropping a house on them; you can't count on having enough left to be a significant threat after the initial assault ends. Plus, at 23 pts/model, the difference between 7 and 10 is a full Zoanthrope, or another Hiveguard, or another 14 termagants, or 8-9 gargoyles.

In my experience, I've had good runs with 6 Ymgarls, but I agree with Janthkin's reasoning. Also, on the tervigon front: I use two of them in 2K. Basically, my list is ~45 Stealers with poison and Broodlords, two tervigons, a prime attached to 3 venomthropes, a big horde of hormagaunts and 2 units of Hive Guard. With so much target saturation, it's tough for my opponents to take down 1 unit of genestealers, let alone 3, esepcially when 2 have FNP. I recently added the venomthropes, so we'll see how the 5+ cover/dangerous terrain bubble does for them, especially with not allowing them to be insta-gibbed by the attached Prime (who, consequently, also is a 12" Fearless bubble in the center of the force).

And whoever said something about not being able to gain the effects of a tervigon because of infiltrating/outflanking, in my experience (and with stringing stealers back), 45 stealers that have to be placed 18" away from the enemy gives you plenty of room to cast that FNP from 12" away.

@Whitedragon

Yeah, we have a really big house, 5 bedrooms. It is crazy how much cheaper it is to live up here than in SoCal. My rent for a tiny one bedroom in downtown SD was almost half of what we pay for this house here which is huge and in a really nice neighborhood.

The one Zoey worked fine, he soaked fire, tied things up in combat and shot down a tank here and there. He was a liability in KP games, but since my army has so few KP I didn't care.

That is also why 1 unit of 24 as opposed to 2 units of 12. Keep KP down and all the unit ever did was sit on objectives or bubble wrap. If I needed two objectives, I just strung them out to cover both.

Hive commander would work great with reserving (As I did it a LOT in the past 8 games) but the HT is not worth his points, IMO, unless he is the swarm lord. I like to keep my HQ cheap.

And Janthkin covered the Ymgarl reasons, I find 7 to be perfect in almost every game.

What kind of pizza did you have. And can i come over and play

Nice report Reecius, thanks for taking the time to write them up!

@Coolguywhoisathome

Haha, Pepperoni and Sausage, and yeah dude, if you live in the Bay feel free!

@Gitsplitta
No worries dude, thanks for reading!

Nice battle report.

The Sanguinary Guard army seems like hit or miss. Having rending claws and Monstrous Creatures punishes armies without invulnerable saves.

Foot-dar vs. Tyranids was a good match up. Wow, those Harlequins had a good killing spree.

I'm surprised you did so well against mech guard. 2 Manticores can be vicious.

Congratulations on your victory.

Nice report, thanks! Despite some folks saying they ignore KPs in their army design, it's remarkable how much it matters if one player actually builds a good army with a low number. You can really stomp theoretically equal or better armies, like you did against the mech IG.

@Sabrx
Thanks, you and Jy2 should come to the next Casa de Reecius tournament. It was good fun.

@Mannahnin
Yeha, it makes such a big difference. I knew I could trade KPs so long as I just got one more. It is a really, really big difference when you have less KPs in those types of missions.

Yeah, just PM me. I usually work on the weekends, which is why I don't usually go to tournaments, but once in a while, I do get a Saturday off. If you guys happen to have it while I have the day off, I may be able to swing on by.

Reecius wrote:@Mannahnin
Yeha, it makes such a big difference. I knew I could trade KPs so long as I just got one more. It is a really, really big difference when you have less KPs in those types of missions.

Yeah, it's one of those tournament metagame calculations. If you design a low-KP list which is only mildly disadvantaged in objective missions, but has a SERIOUS advantage in KP games, then you can often play through and win objective missions anyway, and you can give a nasty surprise to a theoretically stronger army and/or good player if you get paired against them in a KP round.