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This is a thread that has deviated from one of my earlier posts (WWED); In the event that the Emperor returns would the Inquisition, Lord's and various other high ranking leaders in the Emperors absence simply hand over their power upon his return? Personally I don't see it going over so well. I could see it dividing the already hurting imperium and Chaos flexing its power once again. However when the Emperor wins (which im sure he would) it would show that he is definitely the leader of mankind leaving no doubt in anyone's mind's. Also as a side question; who do you think would lead this hypothetical force against the Emperor? Or if you don't think this war would happen, voice that opinion to.

Only the mad would oppose the Emperor.

Where do YOU stand?
Accept him on sight or question him?

Some higher ups may attempt to stay in power or bother to pledge for a new job at his side, but I doubt a returned Emperor would have troubles to "cleanse his house".

Step 1:
Sent Custodes to inform the High lords/council, remove heads of those that disobey.

Step 2:
Return

Step 3:
Get buried under request of personal attendance.....

I would say none. The Imperial Creed is insured his return to power once he "resurrect" from the golden throne. The only one who could opose is some renegade governor with troops loyal to him, but only madman would oppose the man who make Chaos Gods enrolling in their pants.

Think about it though..... people nowadays cant even believe in one thing. And there's only 6 billion of us separated by only miles, not light years. Look at Egypt recently, Mubarek took forever to give up his power and he didn't even have that much on a WORLD scale. Think about men with power over light-years and trillions of men on a Universal scale. Think of how power hungry they are... not to mention the influence of Chaos if they begin doubting their god emperor.

Faith can only take you so far... think of the men at the Cadian gate. Imagine the power of Chaos there, the influence on those pour souls minds Chaos has to have, being so close to the Eye of terror must have side effect's. How do you believe the Emperor protects when you see hundreds of thousands of people die on a daily basis during battles? The thought that he has been strapped to his throne for thousands of years will create doubt, they are humans just like us. Horus betrayed the Emperor.... his own father. What stops anyone else?

some high lords stand with the Emperor, some want to remain as the rulers of the Imperium and flee terra saying that a "False Emperor" has risen and has taken over.

the Ecclesiarchy might have a fit too.


the Inquisition as a whole would likely stand with the Emperor, but radical factions might reveal their true colors and turn against him.

Space marine chapters are polerized between the few chaos worshipping ones and the loyalists.


the Emperor might heal Gullimen and wake Johnson up. Russ and Vulkan could return. would allow for a few primarchs to be knocking around. to compansate, Codex: CSM would get Angron, Moratorian, Alpharis/Omegon and Magnus.




this would actually be a logical way to advance the story line without making it "Emperor's alive, rofl chaos dies"

you then re-introduce Codex: LatD which contains both heretical and renagade imperial forces opposing the Emperor by choice and/or decite.

I believe the thought of betraying their Emperor may lead them to side with the traitor legion's for lack of support and the power chaos promises. It's either; fight thousands of SM's with your small IG force or side with the CSM's and actualy have a chance to do some damage. I believe this could lead to another war equivalent if not greater than the Horus heresy. These "new" traitors would help chaos to break the stalemate that is the Cadian gate and other fortress worlds in the area. This would prove their loyalty, and please the Chaos god's that their followers have increased in number by a huge amount and that their armies are no longer stuck. THe return of the Emperor will piss off the Chaos god's IMO. So they will want another HH sized war to happen.

It would also have alot to do with the manner of the emperor's rebirth, if someone merely showed up and claimed to be the emperor and exhibited powers to help back that claim up, but the golden throne continued to function, it could get interesting with factions declaring both for and against the "second coming " of the Emperor.
Even the faiths of various marine chapters could be put to test, since it would be a matter of faith.

And there would be the problem of the highlords of terra, relenquishing thier power and postition that they have come to expect for milennia now.

And what if the Reborn Emperor's agenda was quite a bit different than the established anti-xenos status-quo, maybe be willing to make deals and alliances against common threats, how would that sit with the dyed in the wool xenos haters in the IOM.

It could be realy interesting and result in alot of excellent reasons for combat, which is waht this hobby is all about anyway .

I think it could be a good way to advance the story line without over-powering anyone. Traitor legions gain tons of power and so does the IoM. The sudden rise in Chaos's power would take priority in the IoM's eyes and would give the other races some breathing room.

Terra alone has billions of migrant worshippers who spend their lives travelling to Terra all so they can die on its holy soil(rock?)
Even if the high lords didn't surrender power the Emperor could command his personal guards and anyone defending his palace to spread the word, he would soon have a large (very large) mob willing to die a million times over for him.

I often wondered this myself and i agree that it would hinge on the manner of the Emperors "rebirth"

if a) he woke up healed strode from the Golden throne commanding the Custodes to summon the High lords and the heads of the Imperium then i think no one would dare question him.

if b) the Emperors body fails and somewhere nearby a child is born and a few years later he starts knowing and doing stuff he should never be able to do then you would have more problems, he would be isolated from his power base, probably branded a heretic for claiming to be the Emperor. Not to mention the question of what would have happened to the Imperium in the interim without the astronomican and the Emperors soul influencing the faithful and lending power to his saints.

hmmm lets do abit of brain storming about factions....

The Reborn Emperor: would have Loyal marine chapters likely the older the chapter the more tendency to side with the new Emperor ( unless they have some major doubts or misgivings, which could be on a individial chapter basis, maybe the space wolves would bring Bjorn the fellhanded to testify on his behalf )
Also possibly the sisters of battle would join his movement, along with various IG regiments, but that would more be based on a planet by planet basis.

Also what would the Admisitortium do, since they are the ones resposible for the actual nuts and bolts running of the imperium, if they were to break down it would be a great deal of chaos ( no pun intended) in the IOM.

The High lords of Terra: some would join the Reborn Emperor ( RE ) but most would likely not want to give up power, especially the magnitude of power they enjoy, so vast numbers of Guard and perhaps even some more recently raised Marine chapters may be set against the RE.

The Ecclesiarchy would be in a riot aswell, since its entire foundation is based on the corpse god emperor and his mysterious commands, the schisim between perhaps the SOB and the preisthood could make for some epic drama, as whole planets draw lines in the sand and decide where their faith lies.

The IG would be divided between all these groups, on a local and galactic level, with some suchas the Cadians maybe even decalring themselves outside the conflict so they can focus on their primary duty of containing the EOT. or something like that.

You could even have a subplot of the Machine cult of mars trying to awake the Omni-shiah in the hopes it could lead them to the truth of the dilemma, and that could open a whole new can of worms

and as to what the various Xenos races would do, I would guess it would be based on their level of Intel on the sitiuation within the imperium and the local conditions in their sphere of control.

but like I sid it would make for some epic warfare

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Think about it though..... people nowadays cant even believe in one thing. And there's only 6 billion of us separated by only miles, not light years. Look at Egypt recently, Mubarek took forever to give up his power and he didn't even have that much on a WORLD scale. Think about men with power over light-years and trillions of men on a Universal scale. Think of how power hungry they are... not to mention the influence of Chaos if they begin doubting their god emperor.

Faith can only take you so far... think of the men at the Cadian gate. Imagine the power of Chaos there, the influence on those pour souls minds Chaos has to have, being so close to the Eye of terror must have side effect's. How do you believe the Emperor protects when you see hundreds of thousands of people die on a daily basis during battles? The thought that he has been strapped to his throne for thousands of years will create doubt, they are humans just like us. Horus betrayed the Emperor.... his own father. What stops anyone else?

Just to make reference:

Mubarek = Rough planetary governor

Emperor of Mankind = Jesus, Allah, Buda...

Now tell me if I am wrong?

I certainly don't think the High Lords of Terror would rise against him (unless he activelyt sort to punish them for whatever failings they demonstrated). They are political leaders yes, but they worship the Emperor. Not only do I think they wouldn't confront him, I believe they would willingly hand over most of their power on the spot (they have the wealth anyway).

The real problem with a divided Imperium would come from the accusations of falsehood and imposters. Short of seeing him themselves people would find it very hard to believe, though given the sorry state of living they exist in most might be eager to listen to any good knews.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
The Reborn Emperor: would have Loyal marine chapters likely the older the chapter the more tendency to side with the new Emperor ( unless they have some major doubts or misgivings, which could be on a individial chapter basis, maybe the space wolves would bring Bjorn the fellhanded to testify on his behalf )
The High lords of Terra: some would join the Reborn Emperor ( RE ) but most would likely not want to give up power, especially the magnitude of power they enjoy, so vast numbers of Guard and perhaps even some more recently raised Marine chapters may be set against the RE.

Some high Lords would definitely try to rebel, just to keep their power and authority. Would they rally some SM chapters to their cause? Unlikely. In the 40K background, marines are very polarised. There's the good guys, supersoliders utterly loyal to the IoM. And the bad guys, superevil marines following the dark gods. Think about what happened during the Age of Apostasy: the SM chapters preferred to remain neutral for most of time. Maybe some chapters could do the same if the RE revealed itself.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
The Ecclesiarchy would be in a riot aswell, since its entire foundation is based on the corpse god emperor and his mysterious commands, the schisim between perhaps the SOB and the preisthood could make for some epic drama, as whole planets draw lines in the sand and decide where their faith lies.

+ 1 The Ecclesiarchy would be the first institution to crumble and tear itself appart if Big E came back. It is even likely that the Emperor would burn it down to ashes himself. Seriously, Big E always praised for the rise of science and wisdom against religion. When he wakes up, he discovers that he is the center of the key religion of the IoM. He would be quite pissed off with the Ecclesiarchy. I bet he would also knock on the AdMech's door and ask them why the IoM is actually loosing tech.

One thing I could see for certain would be the emperor upon returning would turn to his Master of House and interior decoration and say......"What the @#$ is all the skulls for!, I mean I authorized the two headed one eyed eagle, but whats with the skull obsession, people will think we are all grimdark and such..... do it over!"

Laodamia wrote:
Some high Lords would definitely try to rebel, just to keep their power and authority. Would they rally some SM chapters to their cause? Unlikely. In the 40K background, marines are very polarised. There's the good guys, supersoliders utterly loyal to the IoM. And the bad guys, superevil marines following the dark gods. Think about what happened during the Age of Apostasy: the SM chapters preferred to remain neutral for most of time. Maybe some chapters could do the same if the RE revealed itself.

People just don't understand how fundamentally important the Emperor is to every bit of the Imperium. Saying that the High Lords of Terra wouldn't hand over power is like saying the Pope and President of Italy wouldn't hand over power if Jesus Christ himself knocked on the door and demonstrated his powers (whatever they may be).

+ 1 The Ecclesiarchy would be the first institution to crumble and tear itself appart if Big E came back. It is even likely that the Emperor would burn it down to ashes himself. Seriously, Big E always praised for the rise of science and wisdom against religion. When he wakes up, he discovers that he is the center of the key religion of the IoM. He would be quite pissed off with the Ecclesiarchy. I bet he would also knock on the AdMech's door and ask them why the IoM is actually loosing tech.

The Emperor might recognise that the Ecclesiarchy is exactly what has held the Imperium together for 10,000 years. I don't think he'd start tearing it apart from get-go, but he wouldn't be ecstatic about the whole thing. At most I can see him altering the creed of the Ecclesiarchy to some extent, but not tearing it down to the ground.

I'll admit it's unlikely that anyone would oppose the Emperor's return... there would be some idiot who does it though.

Well the very importance that the emperor has become in the hearts and minds of the trillions of humans across the vast span of the IOM, may also be part of the problem, because what if the Emperor who has been built up in the thousands of years since the HH returns and is not the omnipotent all knowing all saving entitiy that his preisthood has built him to be , now each of those trillions of humans has to decide what to beleive, either the new less than perfect Emperor, or the perfect idealized one from memory.
If that can't cause a trial of faith then I guess the empire will merely snap inline behind its new shiny god emperor and destroy all the naughty xenos, and domesticate tyranids as our new housepets and foodsources

Me I like the uncertainty, and as to all marine chapters being loyal to the emperor, look at the Badhab wars were multiple chapters mutinied against the IOM.

People just don't understand how fundamentally important the Emperor is to every bit of the Imperium. Saying that the High Lords of Terra wouldn't hand over power is like saying the Pope and President of Italy wouldn't hand over power if Jesus Christ himself knocked on the door and demonstrated his powers (whatever they may be).

I agree with those who say that is is the way he is reborn that will decide what happens. The bible tells that Jesus was born into the world, he grew up like normal and later was hated by the religious officials of the day for claiming to be the Messiah. Even Jesus was betrayed, and I believe it's because he didnt ride down on a magical flying cloud with pyrotechnics launching everywhere

if a) he woke up healed strode from the Golden throne commanding the Custodes to summon the High lords and the heads of the Imperium then i think no one would dare question him.

This is right, I still think there would be naysayers but this would be the way to gather the most followers immediately. My argument however is more based on the fact that humans are naturally greedy and care for themselves. I believe that a good percentage of the high lord's and other important leaders use their belief in the Emperor as a tool to manipulate the populace. Because obviously Chaos can be bad for your money flow. So they will without fail brand people heretics without fail. Though if they lose this power they have had for the longest time they might consider going to the side that "promises" limitless power.

One the Emperor won't come back, for he is dead ().

Alright, serious time.

I think you're right, for the most part. If he did come back, some problems would arise. Once humans (especially government types) gain power/money, they can't bear to see it go. The Council and everyone else wouldn't just instantly step down into obscurity. There would be ultimate and legitimate sundering, from the Imperium that is bleeding profusely as it is. Eventually, the Emperor would assume total control, after a few rolling heads, but at what cost? In that time, who knows what xenos and Chaos could do to the Imperium as its head is temporarily non-existant and command isn't concentrating on defending itself, but simply trying to stay together.

Yeah, the Emperor is best sitting on the gilded toilet.

Well, in every single novel I read that was not dealing about SM, there was always a few normal individuals that did not really believe in the emprah's existence. The Galaxy is so vast, there are so many different human worlds...
Think about it. If you were a hiver working something like 40 hours a week in a manufactorum, that you had never actually breathed pure air, or tasted real food, or even seen the daylight and the stars at night, why would you believe the saying of those old priests in their church? You would probably focus on more crucial matters and put religious beliefs aside. And if your governor, for some reason, decided not to believe in the emperor's resurretion, you would probably follow his sayings than the weak rumors of an almighty deity on some distant star you've never seen.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote: Me I like the uncertainty, and as to all marine chapters being loyal to the emperor, look at the Badhab wars were multiple chapters mutinied against the IOM.

That's a good point actually. You got me.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:and domesticate tyranids as our new housepets and foodsources

I've always wanted a pet hormagaunt. I would pick a wood stick, say "Fetch!" and throw the stick in my neighbor's garden or house. And then watch chaos and death ensuing...

I have always had a sneaky suspicion ( about a fantasy world conspericy therory ) that the shadowy highlords of terra have never been all to hot about the emperor's return, maybe even going so far as to keep him as a gilded slave upon the golden throne just to power the astronomicon, it could be they have had the capacity to regenerate him for some time, but that would mean their loss of their exhaulted status...something no powerhungry lord could bear......

Just a thought from a pro-tau human

That actually sounds very interesting. Imagine if that is how it is and the Emperor knows what they are doing.... if he comes back by his own means without their help they will definitely have to fight for their lives haha.

yeah I could see the scene following the rebirth of the emperor..

Commisar Yarrick strides into the cavernous halls upon terra to address the assembled Highlords of terra...
"My lords The Emperor is most displeased with your lack of progress in his rebirth." Yarrick states flatly

"Commisar, the Emperor must be patient we need more time and materials to make the needed..." states in offhanded almost bored tone by a highlord.

Yarrick interupts "Well perhaps you can tell him that yourself when he arrives."

"Arrives..here!, you can't possibly mean....we will have to consult of course." stammers the highlords.

"Consult? do as you will but remember the Emperor is not as forgiving as I. " Yarrick then turns and leaves, as the highlords pale and begin to sweat.


now that is a homage to my favorite scene from starwars.

Okay...but why is Yarrick on Terra?

who better than the most unforgiving commisar to say the emperor is not as forgiving as I, but insert any unsympathetic favorite personage for him if so wished, me I like the image of a old man telling it to a bunch of fat cat overlord types

Emperors Faithful wrote:Okay...but why is Yarrick on Terra?

Time off from his hard ork hunting? Maybe he tracked them to Terra? Very bad tracker...

The Emperor of mankind as Palpatine in Star Wars. And Yarrick as darth Vader.

You made my day.

I just imagined that one day the Emperor will get off the throne,

walk down the steps,

open the door to the Council chambers where the high lords are quibbling over some non-sense,

*awkward silence...


and then the Emperor says,

Who the feth are you people and why are YOU sitting in my Chair???

The fluff backstory for Karamazov in the Witch Hunter book had a random freedom fighter who the thorian inquisitors thought might have held a portion of the emperor's soul and wanted to question the man. Karamazov, being the ruthless inquisitor he is, swooped in and tormented the man before pronouncing judgement, burning him at the stake. Proof was later uncovered from the warbands the freedom fighting preacher led that they were tainted with chaos, but the Thorian inquisitors never forgave Karamazov.

Given their extremely paranoid viewpoints, anything short of the emperor stepping off the platform or utter domination of the entire imperial army would mean being branded as a heretic and (possibly) daemon, then having the gak torpedo'd out of him from orbit. The Ecclessiarchy, however, would likely go the way of Goge Vandire, especially if the emperor flat out decreed he did not like religion.