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As mentioned in the introduction forum, I've been out of 40K for about six years, and thus haven't played since 3rd edition. I used to run an assault-oriented Imperial Guard/Witch Hunter list -- it actually worked back then, and in my last tournament (Astronomicon in Winnipeg 2004) I placed second overall. I rather enjoyed that list and would like to attempt something similar, hoping that it will be at least somewhat competitive. I've heard rumours that the new Grey Knight codex may replace both Daemonhunters AND Witch Hunters, so for now I am focusing on the Imperial Guard aspect and will wait and see what happens with the GK codex. So anyway, here's the list I've come up with upon which I have been basing purchases. It is 1500 pts because the local store does 1850 pt games usually, and I want to leave 350 pts available for Witch Hunters. This list is purely academic since I have only played one small 750 pt battle in 5th edition. In that battle the Hellhound and the Penal Legionairies were champs against Eldar.

HQ

Company Command Squad, Master of Ordinance (80)

ELITE

Ratlings x5 (50)

TROOPS

I. INFANTRY PLATOON

Platoon HQ , Commissar w/ Power Fist, PW for officer, Heavy Flamer, Flamer x2, Chimera (190)
Infantry Squad #1 Commissar w/PW, Flamer, Chimera (155)
Infantry Squad #2 Commissar w/PW, Flamer, Chimera (155)
Infantry Squad #3 Autocannon, GL (65)
Infantry Squad #4 Autocannon, GL (65)
Heavy Weapons Squad w/ Lascannon x3 (105)

II. Penal Legionaires (80)

FAST

Hellhound (130)
Rough Riders x10 (105)

HEAVY

Leman Russ Demolisher (165)
Basilisk (125)

Points = 1470

(if Codex: Witch Hunters is still alive after GK is released, I will use the remaining points for a CC-oriented Lord Inquisitor w/ retinue riding in a rhino, and either a 5 man melta Inquisitorial ST squad or 10 man plasma Inquisitorial ST squad)

I'm not looking for the most effective list ever, just one that is at least semi-competitive. I am perhaps a bit cracked, but really enjoy assault oriented guard because no one expects it. I am a bit worried that my numbers are too low, but I want the speed of mech because I also like taking the fight to the enemy. I built the list with the plan that the Company Command Squad will form a firebase with the two Autocannon platoon squads and the heavy weapons squad and Basilisk, with the Rough Riders and Penal Legion hanging around for counter-attack/blocking manouvres to protect the firebase. Meanwhile, the Demolisher will lead the charge of the mechanised element along a flank. Fairly basic, but it worked in the old days.

Now, just a few other minor points, the Penal Legion are pretty much non-negotiable for fluff reasons. Way back in the day a friend and I did a battle report for Batreps.com inwhich his Catachans were pitted against my Sisters of Battle. An ambushing trooper with demo pack fried my Inquisitor. So in revenge, I've made a squad of Catachans into Penal Legionaires by combining a Catachan box with a WFB Flagellants box. Also, the Rough Riders are non-negotiable because I've always loved Rough Riders, and I chose the Forgeworld Death Korps for my army just because of the death riders (I hate the Atillan models and determined it would be even more expensive than Forgeworld to try cobbling together RRs by combining Cadian and various WFB boxes). Other than that, it's pretty open. The models I've purchased so far are the aforementioned Penal Legionaires, 2 squads of guard, the Company Command Squad and Platoon Command Squad, 10 Rough Riders, the Ratlings, the Hellhound and the Basilisk.

As for Ratlings, I've noticed from hanging around the local store that Monstrous creatures and things like Wraithlords and other high toughness models are popular. So I thought for 50 points why not. Plus it was fun converting them to have their arms covered by sleeves, gillie suits on two of them, and an officer's cap on the one with the telescope.

I'd prefer not to go the blob foot guard route just because I'm using Forge World minis and I don't want to take out a second mortgage on my house. But anyway, your thoughts, comments, criticisms would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

As a semi-competitive list it's not bad. I'm a little concerned that the PIS in the Chimeras won't be able to do enough damage on the charge to justify their points cost; I would give the Sergeants power weapons as well to try and compensate somewhat, but really there's not much you can expect 11 T3 5+ models to accomplish.

The Heavy Support is good but all the things I would recommend changing (the Rough Riders, Ratlings and Penal Legion) you've stated as un-negotiable so the only other thing I can suggest is putting a lascannon/missile launcher into the CCS. If its stationary it may as well fire two heavy weapons rather one.

L. Wrex

If you're using DKoK, I have heard that you can order strips of infantry that are supposed to fit inside the gorgon superheavy transport. These have to be cut apart and repaired afterward, and would be at the 'at ease' sort of stance, which isn't my cup of tea - but it does work out a lot cheaper than buying the normal, hilariously expensive squads. If you did choose to go that route, I think it might be cheaper to build an infantry than a mechanised army (it's certainly cheaper in plastic to build an infantry guard army than a mechanised one, which requires a significant number of infantry plus many vehicles).

Master of ordnance is not a good upgrade for a CCS - mass special weapons and a chimera, or a regimental standard and a vox, are both good set-ups with different roles.

Platoon HQs, I don't think should ever take any upgrades except weapons. They are very fragile squads, neither a commissar or close combat weapons help them really, those upgrades are better saved for combined infantry squads. Flamers are a much better option for their points than heavy flamers. It's not worth 15 points for the strength/ap increase.

Infantry, I think you'd be better off filling chimeras with veterans - they can take multiple special weapons. Lots of games of 40k are decided by who has the most, especially melta guns - vehicles have become more common since you last played much. Commissars are great for 20-40 man combined squads, where stubborn and good morale really come into play, not so good for 10-man mounted squads, who are sort of built to be suicidal units.

Your 3 armour choices are all sort of mixed up. What is your plan for using them?

You have a couple infantry units, ratlings, one HWS, a CCS with virtually no purpose, and a basilisk as a firebase. Your attacking units are a hellhound, demolisher, and 3 chimeras carrying flamers. You've got no meltaguns or plasmaguns at all. I don't really know what the rough riders or penal legion are for. It would be a good idea to run rough riders behind the chimeras, revealing them for the charge - but you have no special weapons in the chimeras capable of breaking transports!

I don't mean to sound harsh or anything, it's just that your list looks a bit odd in light of what clever opponents usually use these days. Expect lots of units to be in transports. So take plenty of long-range anti-vehicle support, eg lascannons, autocannons (and you do have some, so good) and meltaguns, which if they can get in range are the best vehicle killers in the game. Most mechanised squads will have vehicle-killing special weapons, especially for IG since every chimera can and should mount a HF already.

With cover so easy to get and beneficial for infantry, things like the basilisk that exist for ap3 have gone down in value. Try a manticore instead. S10 and more blasts is better against many things, and only really worse against elite infantry in the open.

Generally, IG are agreed to be one of the nastiest armies if done right. Look at some of the other army lists posted for them. They tend to make use of chimera-mounted veterans and/or combined infantry squads, often mounted CCS and PCS carrying maximum special weapons, and well-filled FA and HS slots. Some of the best choices are vendettas, manticores, hydras, leman russ demolishers and standard battle tanks. Valkyries, medusas and hellhounds are often seen as well.

Anyway, hope that helps.

Thanks for the response.

Just for the sake of argument, suppose the Penal Legion, Rough Riders, and Ratlings weren't non-negotiable. What would you do with the 235 available points?

Or, on the flip side, if one forgot about the list, is there a better way to build around the Penal Legion and Rough Riders? For example, should I have two squads of Rough Riders moving out on the advance with the Hellhound and take the platoon squads out of the chimerae?

BTW, in terms of theme, I don't want to do the veteran mech spam list because it seems way to common. I'd like to try to use a good old-fashioned platoon structure if I can. Keep in mind with this list that the mech platoon squads would be accompanied by an Inquisitor who can deal more damage than the guard (eviscerator, combat servitor, 2x crusader, 2x chirurgeon, familiar, all in a rhino -- assuming that the rumours about Codex: Witch Hunters being cancelled by C:GK are wrong); does this perhaps compensate for the lack of punch that the PIS have? My hope being that the guardsmen, being stubborn Ld 9 with the Commissar, can hold out long enough for the Inquisitor to hack through the enemy -- the enemy having been softened up by all the flame templates first (including heavy flamers on the chimerae). But maybe that's being too optimistic about the effectiveness of the inquisitor.

I didn't put a lascannon in the company HQ just because the one time I used the Master of Ordinance, I found that he was shooting at stuff the lascannon couldn't all game, and thus never fired a shot.

Although, hearing that this list is not bad for semi-competitive is basically what I was looking for, although making a bit better than "not bad" (perhaps good) would be nice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorr, "I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly", I was replying to L. Wrex when you posted your comments so that's why I didn't address them. Thanks for your helpful commentary, it sounds like things have changed a fair bit since I last played, indeed.

My plan for the armour was Basilisk - Firebase, Demolisher, leading the charge with the chimerae following behind to shelter behind its superior armour until the time is ripe to attack, and the Hellhound alongside the Demolisher to help lead the charge.

HOWEVER, you have put your finger on something that has troubled me with this list: the fact that the units I am supposed to be building my army around (for fluff reasons) lack purpose; i.e. the Penal Legion and Rough Riders. As for the Ratlings, as I said, high toughness creatures and walkers seem to be popular around here so for 50 pts I thought that they are useful to hide in some cover somewhere and shave a wound or two off the big monsters.

Anyway, I'd be interested in thoughts on how to give purpose to the Rough Riders and Penal Legion. The rest of the list can be scrapped, if need be. Unfortunately I already bought all the chimerae, but I suppose those could be sold or kept around for when I feel like mixing things up.

I hear you about the lack of meltas. I had intended an army focused around the "holy trinity" of the flamer, meltagun, and bolter since my army is meant to be a group of guardsmen from a Cardinal World with heavy Redemptorist influence, who were inducted into the service of an Ordo Hereticus inquisitor. But as I said, I'm not crazy about the 3x melta vets just because they're so common, plus also, to properly convert a Death Korps squad into vets would make an already "hilariously expensive" squad just hideously expensive because I would feel the need to do head swaps, add bits of extra gear, and the like, probably using Forge World's Cadian Hardened Veterans upgrade pack since helmetless heads seem awfully hard to come by. It just feels wrong to me to use regular troops and say they're vets. Although it could be fitting for the theme of inducted guard.

I suppose the way to use penal legion would be as outflankers, take lots of heavy high-strength and low ap firepower to clear out hard targets, then hope the penal legion can take on whatever's left in the enemy's backfield. Still not really top-notch units though. Rough riders would work best as a counter-charge element in a static list, with enough disposable vehicles (or simply enough LoS-blocking terrain) to protect them from shooting until the critical moment.

About the veterans, it's not that they're necessary to win or anything, but CCS, veterans, and to a lesser extent PCS are some of the best troops in the game for "carrying high-strength special weapons around in a transport" which is a winning tactic against lots of armies.

And it's interesting that you mention converting. While many people I know paint their veterans a bit differently or mark them as different from ordinary guardsman somehow, it's often quite a minor difference, and people who don't use any non-veterans often use out-of-the-box models as veterans. I understand that when hardened veterans were a 0-1 elites choice it was deemed pretty much mandatory to do cool conversions. While there are obviously plenty of people doing cool stuff, it has become acceptable to use ordinary guard as veterans - I suppose the unit being an unrestricted troops choice has sort of outweighed the background of being grizzled individuals.

You will come to realize that ratlings are probably one of the worst elite units in the game, with WS and T2, you would be better off just getting 2 squads of vets with 3 snipers in each. Although, they are only 50 pts, and if you are good at rolling 6's, they can be relatively effective, just don't let them get into CC, if they do they are straight out

This is by far the weirdest army list I have ever seen for Imperial Guard.

You have low firepower, but hey... It looks like a fun list to play with.

Thank you everyone for the feedback. Some food for thought here.

redguardsman wrote:This is by far the weirdest army list I have ever seen for Imperial Guard.

You have low firepower, but hey... It looks like a fun list to play with.

Thanks! Well, something similar worked in 3rd edition. I guess I'll just have to try it out, perhaps with proxying some minis in the mean time so I don't invest a bunch of $$ in units that I determine really do not work.

Some would probably say given my preference for very aggressive, assault-based army that I should be playing Space Marines. I tried a Black Templar army once, played one game, and it just didn't turn my crank. I guess I like the challenge of playing a completely unorthodox style.

Another angle I thought of, was building a unit of 15 or so strong "Zealots of the Red Redemption" who are counts-as Sisters Repentia. Walk them toward the enemy surrounded by the Chimerae to avoid getting shot to tiny bits, then delivering the main punch of the assault element. I am obviously going to wait and see whether Codex: Witch Hunters is still valid after April before I actually start working on such conversions.

Hmm... The things I have serious heartburn with are:

Not putting anything stronger than a lasgun in the BS4 company command squad is a crying shame. I'm not saying you have to drop 60 points on a quad of plasma guns, but don't let that BS go to waste!

Rough riders? Really? Horsemen? with pointy sticks that have dynamite lashed to the tips? Are you serious?

I'd also recommend against the bassie...it's one of my favorite models, but the minimum range, combined with it's glass-hammer-ness (S9 template, but only AV12) kill its usefulness. I'd scrape up the 40 points to make that a demolisher...or a stock russ with a lascannon hull mount. Also consider maybe a griffon for a third heavy choice...price/performance is off the scale, and the minimum range is less crippling.

I agree about the horrible-ness of the master of ordnance. The only advisor that I like is the officer of the fleet...he doesn't directly kill anything, but delaying the arrival of enemy reserves lets you focus on killing what's on the board for an extra turn before you have to start paying attention to new arrivals.

Other than that...interesting list! It's certainly "semi-competitive," without all of the WAAC garbage (chimeltavets, PBSs, vendettas) that we're all so tired of seeing.

Assault Oriented IG list with alot of firepower to back it up.

1500pts


HQ

CCS
-OoTF
-camo cloaks
100pts


TROOP

PLATOON A

PCS
-autocannon
IS
-commissar w/ pw
-meltagun
-sgt w/ pw & melta bombs
IS
-commissar w/ pw
-meltagun
-sgt w/ pw & melta bombs
IS
-meltagun
-sgt w/ pw & melta bombs
IS
-meltagun
-sgt w/ pw & melta bombs
HWT x3
-3 lascannons
-3 missile launchers
-3 autocannons
700pts


PLATOON B

PCS
-autocannon
IS
-commissar w/ pw
-meltagun
-sgt w/ pw & melta bombs
IS
-commissar w/ pw
-meltagun
-sgt w/ pw & melta bombs
IS
-meltagun
-sgt w/ pw & melta bombs
IS
-meltagun
-sgt w/ pw & melta bombs
HWT x3
-3 lascannons
-3 missile launchers
-3 autocannons
700pts

Platoons break down to 4 blobs of 20 guardsmen with a commissar in each 20 man blob. On the charge 12 pw attacks + stubborn. 2 meltas in each blob as well.

HWTs take care of long range firepower for you while holding rear objectives.

CCS just issues orders to your HWTs while in cover for a 3+ save. 2+ if it's desperately needed

I'd turn the 2 squads in chimeras into vets and give them plasma or melta. Add commissar to the other two squads and blob them - power weapons and either flamers or GL. Stick the autocannons in a second HWS. Maybe add a third squad?

Give the CCS some special weapons.

I would be inclined to change from Bassie to LRBT - it looks an obvious T1 target for your opponent.

I have used rough riders and penal legion in a foot list - I use them to flank the main infantry blob and act as a counter-charge unit. Scout sentinels can also work in this role. Keep the multi-laser, give them smoke and they are dirt cheap.

I think allies is not something I woud plan on post GK launch, so I would look on getting this list up to 1,850. 2 LR and a Basilisk will then work.

Thanks again for the feedback, gentlemen.

march10k wrote:
Not putting anything stronger than a lasgun in the BS4 company command squad is a crying shame. I'm not saying you have to drop 60 points on a quad of plasma guns, but don't let that BS go to waste!

I'm hearing lots of negativity about the Master of Ordinance. Personally, I found him not bad in a recent 1500 pt battle, but admittedly my scatter rolls were abnormally good and I can't count on rolling three 1's too often.

The problem of giving proper weapons to the Company HQ may be less difficult than originally thought given that there's actually one thing cheaper for Death Korps than everyone else: special weapons, since I can purchase a special weapons "sprue" rather than buying a while CCS box set (the inability to buy bitz has been the biggest adjustment for me since returning to the hobby after my 6 year hiatus; I can see from a business perspective why they did it, but would it kill them to make available some weapon upgrade sprues? I mean, if Forgeworld can do it ...).

I can throw an autocannon in there and a pair of plasma guns for only 10 pts more than the Master of Ordinance. Sound good?

march10k wrote:Rough riders? Really? Horsemen? with pointy sticks that have dynamite lashed to the tips? Are you serious?

LOL. Yes, I'm afraid I am -- just love the models and the anachronistic feel of lancers on a futuristic battlefield. Sort of like the Poles in 1939. Plus memories of wiping out my friend's squad of 5 Chaos Terminators on a glorious charge back in the good old days sticks with me. As aforementioned, the whole reason I went with Death Korps models was for the Death Riders, so I'm afraid these guys are staying.

march10k wrote:I'd also recommend against the bassie...it's one of my favorite models, but the minimum range, combined with it's glass-hammer-ness (S9 template, but only AV12) kill its usefulness. I'd scrape up the 40 points to make that a demolisher...or a stock russ with a lascannon hull mount. Also consider maybe a griffon for a third heavy choice...price/performance is off the scale, and the minimum range is less crippling.

Yes, I'm coming to realise this ... unfortunately, AFTER I bought the Basilisk model and $30 Death Korps heavy artillery crew to man it! Again, living in the past. Arg. But you are probably right. I already have the model, but will probably bring it when I feel like mixing the list up and after I've build my original 1850 force and start enlarging it. I will see how I can work these changes in.

march10k wrote:Other than that...interesting list! It's certainly "semi-competitive," without all of the WAAC garbage (chimeltavets, PBSs, vendettas) that we're all so tired of seeing.

Flyinmiata1 wrote:Assault Oriented IG list with alot of firepower to back it up.

Thank you kindly for the help. Unfortunately, there's no way I can afford to build that with Death Korps Forge World models ... at least not any time soon.

ruminator wrote:I'd turn the 2 squads in chimeras into vets and give them plasma or melta. Add commissar to the other two squads and blob them - power weapons and either flamers or GL. Stick the autocannons in a second HWS. Maybe add a third squad?

Very interesting suggestions. I'll look at it to see how this can work. My plan was to have the squads w/ autocannons hold objectives with the HWT and CCS. I take it that with the suggestion above, the blobbed squads would still hold the objective but be used for counterattack when the enemy shows up? Or how would this all work?

My hesitation with vets, aside from converting issues and their prevalence, is that I do want to do some assaulting with the mech element, and it seems like a waste to do that. Although maybe the same could be said of the squads I have already. I'll think about it. I think what I could do model-wise is use my 2x Death Korps squads that I already have as the "blob", and could use some Cadians for the vets and say that they're survivors from another unit that were appended to this force when their parent unit was wiped out. Still won't be cheap, but will be cheaper than more Death Korps.

ruminator wrote:I think allies is not something I woud plan on post GK launch, so I would look on getting this list up to 1,850. 2 LR and a Basilisk will then work.

Unfortunately, I think you may be right, but I am still clinging to the faint hope that GW isn't willing to terminate Sisters of Battle (which is what would essentially happen if GK invalidates Codex: Witch Hunters as well as Codex: Daemonhunters). But I'm sure members of Dakka are in a better position to judge -- how many people use Sisters anymore? They were quite rare back in my day, but obviously still enough of them to warrant their own codex. I got out of the hobby at the same time Codex:WH was released so don't know how things went after that. Is it realistic that GW will put the Sisters out of their misery? I know they've taken armies away before ...

You don't have to use different models for vets and normal infantry - just give them a slightly different paint job and maybe some more bits and kits on the vets ...

The CCS isn't doing a lot and the Moo isn't that cool. Consider Creed maybe for four orders a turn

Ratlings are ok..

Commissar should not be with PCS, he shoots the PCS Commander in the head then that squad cannot issue orders. Put the Commissar with another squad and take a power weapon, though only if the squad has power weapons in large numbers because them if you make combat you can swamp enemy models and slowly cut them down in combat.

A better list would be:

Company Command Squad w/ Creed - lascannon or autocannon & "dude who gives +1 to reserves - Astropath?"

Lord Commissar

5 x Ratlings

Platoon Command Squad - 4 x flamers

Infantry Squad - autocannon - sgt w/ power weapon - Commissar w/ power weapon

Infantry Squad - autocannon - sgt w/ power weapon

Infantry Squad - autocannon - sgt w/ power weapon

Heavy Weapons Team - 3 x lascannons

Platoon Command Squad - 4 x flamers

Infantry Squad - autocannon - sgt w/ power weapon - Commissar w/ power weapon

Infantry Squad - autocannon - sgt w/ power weapon

Infantry Squad - autocannon - sgt w/ power weapon

Heavy Weapons Team - 3 x lascannons

Sentinel - autocannon

Sentinel - autocannon

Sentinel - autocannon

Manticore Missile Launcher - heavy flamer

Manticore Missile Launcher - heavy flamer

Now I haven't checked points so you will have to do that but it cannot be far off. Creed can give multiple orders, however you might not need him because you haven't got loads of infantry and he does cost a lot. Lord Commissar hangs with the heavy teams giving them his stubborn bubble so they do not run off. Platoons blast away with autocannons taking stuff out, when things get close, charge! Sentinels outflank go for vehicle side armour and contest objectives.

Okay, I've been thinking about this some more and with another game under my belt and lessons learned there since the last round on this one, I am tinkering further, working in the advice received as I can, keeping in mind that I still want to remain true to my theme and make a fun, out of the ordinary list that is at semi-competitive. I have put certain portions of the list in blue; these are the parts of the list that I am especially looking for feedback on and trying to determine what is the best combination of weaponry/wargear for these choices. Items in red are non-negotiable. Everything else is open, but is not what I am specifically seeking assistance on. I make these preliminary comments not to be difficult or surly, just to try to make sure everyone's clear and so people don't waste their time telling me rough riders such, or some such (for fluff reasons and/or because I personally find the unit very effective regardless of others' experience). Thanks to all the help given thus far, and thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions on this new list. This is meant to be an 1850 point list; I am not sweating the fact that I'm 10 pts over for now, since I expect at least some changes after hearing your feedback.

HQ

Company Command Squad, Astropath, Lascannon, Plasmagun x2 power sword (135)

Lord Inquisitor [counts as Straken],4x flamers , chimera (220) **

ELITE

[Inquisitorial] Storm Troopers x5, meltagun x2 (105)*

[Inquisitorial] Storm Troopers x5, meltagun x2 (105)*

TROOPS

I. INFANTRY PLATOON

Platoon HQ , Power sword for officer, Flamer x3 (55)
Infantry Squad #1 Autocannon, GL (65)
Infantry Squad #2 Autocannon, GL (65)
Heavy Weapons Squad w/ Lascannon x3 (105)

II. Penal Legionaires (80)

III. Veterans, meltaguns x3, chimera (155)

IV. Veterans, grenade launchers x3, chimera (140)

FAST

Hellhound (130)
Rough Riders x10 (105)
Rough Riders x10 (105)

HEAVY

Leman Russ Battle Tank w/ hull lascannon (165)
Basilisk (125)

Points = 1860

* I do want "Inquisitorial Storm Troopers" in the list, in some capacity, but am debating whether to have them as actual Storm Troopers, or dump the two ST squads in favor of a mech veteran squad with grenadiers doctrine.

EDIT: ** I had initially put it as "non-negotiable" that my "counts-as" Lord Inquisitor use the rules for Straken. This is, on the contrary, something I am looking for ideas on. What IS non-negotiable is having some sort of second HQ to represent the inquisitor that I can no longer bring from the Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters codices. Thanks again.

Just bumping this because there were a lot of lists posted last night and this went to page 2 real fast.

Also looking for commentary on the fluff aspects of the list, if people don't mind. Of the two veteran squads I have right now, I was thinking of making one veterans from another unit using Cadian models, and the other unit a band of the Inquisitor's henchmen, using a variety of the retinue models I have which would fit the role (veteran guardsmen and acolytes, mostly).

Your list seems really fun but some comments about your last update.

If you want the russ to lead your flank attack I think you should just go for a demolisher with hull heavy flamer.

Also flamers is a bit of a waste in the squad that straken joins. If you're going to drive him around in a chimera weapons similar to the vets are better. The hellhound is also joining the flank attack I presume and it has enough anti-infantry.

I think your biggest problem is that as I understand it a flank attack will be made with a russ, hellhound and 3 chimeras. Most armies are quite capable of dealing with that level of mech. If possible I would drop the basilisk and replace it for a manticore to get some better artillery support for your flank attack.

One way of freeing up the points for my suggestions is to drop the HWS with lascannons (that is a very fragile squad) and the basilisk. That should give you enough for a manticore and better special weapons for strakens squad.

Thanks for your comments, Mizeran.

One thing I should mention is that I intend the "flank attack" (or could be centre attack -- the lay of the land made this the most effective route in my last battle) serves as a metal shield for the Rough Riders who advance behind it. Two orders of "move, move, move" from the Inquisitor (Straken) will allow them to keep pace.

I see no reason why the RRs wouldn't be able to launch their attack on turn 2, given their effective threat range of 24 inches (move 6, run 5 or 6 with "move, move, move", then charge 12). With the 3rd Edition ability to assault after disembarking from a moving transport gone, this seems by far the fastest way to get to grips with the enemy. It worked spectacularly in my last battle. Granted, it was against Eldar, but my one squad of Rough Riders completely changed the game by destroying one of rangers and making his Farseer flee off the table on turn 2 after due to wounds caused to the Dire Avengers he was with.

I reverted to a standard Russ because I felt the Demolisher would not be able to keep up with the other vehicles, who would be charging ahead 12" in the first turn. So I figured it would be standing and shooting, and hopefully diverting some firepower from the attackers.

The low-ish number of vehicles may be an issue. Hence my debate about turning the Inquisitorial Storm Troopers into grenadier doctrine veterans (another chimera). On the other hand, it seems that a wedge of even four vehicles will take up a lot of room on the table.

I will tinker some more. Thanks again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another "look" that I thought of for this list is like this:

HQ - choices same as above

ELITE - none

TROOPS

I. INFANTRY PLATOON

Platoon HQ , Power sword for officer, Flamer x3 (55)
Infantry Squad #1 Autocannon, GL (65)
Infantry Squad #2 Autocannon, GL (65)
Infantry Squad #3 Lascannon (70)

II. Penal Legionaires (80)

III. Veterans - Grenadier doctrine, 3x meltaguns, power sword and plasma pistol on sergeant, chimera (205) *

IV. Inquisitorial Storm Troopers [counts as Veterans] - Grenadier doctrine, 3x meltaguns, chimera (185)

FAST - same as above

HEAVY

Leman Russ Demolisher (165)
Leman Russ Battle Tank w/ lascannon (165)
Basilisk (125)

* Under this variation, instead of having veterans from a seperate unit, I would use the Death Korps grenadiers models. Is this list better?

Regarding the Inquisitor's unit, I thought to keep the flamers because I intend to have him assault things. I have no illusions about the hellhound living very long, so figured I'd better have some backup flame templates available and dousing the enemy with prometheum before charging in strikes me as both effective and rather Inquisitor-ish. Plus I can use some of the acolyte models as flamer troops.

Does anyone else have any thoughts? Which is better to have ... the 2x storm troopers deep-striking with meltaguns, or the second Russ? I'm starting to incline towards the latter since it seems more reliable to me; the storm troopers could be hit and miss depending on reserves and deep-strike rolls ...