Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is a creation I did out of boredom, and a design I have in mind for a smaller leman russ patern I'm working on.

Any advice/critism/... would be welcome

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________


Background:

Khazak Light Battle Tank.

Like it's name suggests, the light battle tank is constructed on the Forgeworld/military world of Khazak, a world renowned for its planetwide city and fortress. The Khazak specialise in urban warfare, and soon the Khazak commanders realised they needed a smaller battle tank to opperate in the confined spaces of a hive. Thus, the factories of Khazak set to work, and two years later, the Khazak Light Battle Tank, often refered to as the 'Minerva' by Imperial Guardsmen, first saw the fires of war.

The 'Minerva', or Light Battle Tank, has a smaller chasiss than the all round Leman Russ, but packs the same speed as one. It's outfitted with the same engine as a standard Leman Russ. It is armed with a lighter version of the battle cannon, but is still capable of eliminating enemies in tight cover.

Enigineers have left the option to outfit it with various side ornaments, such as the heavy flamer, or the bolter.

The Khazak Light Battle Tank is the right tool in Urban warfare, and it has proven it's worth countless times since it's initiation in battle.


Rules:

Special: Lumbering Behemoth

Cost: 135 pts per model, without upgrades.

Armour:
Front: 12
Side: 12
Rear: 11

Wargear:

-Urban Battle Cannon Strength: 7 AP: 4 range: 24 inch
Large blast template.
The Minerva's battle cannon is designed to eliminate enemies in heavy cover. As a result, enemies may not take cover saves against the Minerva's Battle Cannon.

-Smoke launchers

Options:
The Minerva may take one hull mounted weapon of choice:
-Heavy Flamer: 5 pts
-Heavy Bolter: 5pts
-Autocannon: 10 pts

The Minerva may take one set of sponsons of the following:
- Sponson mounted heavy flamers: 10 pts
- Sponson mounted Heavy bolters: 10 pts

Furtermore, the Minerva may take The following options:
- Pintle mounted heavy bolter / heavy stubber: 10 pts
- Hunter killer missile: 10 pts
- Dozer blade: 10 pts
- Extra armour: 15 pts
- Camo netting: 20 pts.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So, what do y'all think? I am considering taking the dozer blade as a piece of wargear rather then an option for 5 extra points, seeing as it's meant as an urban battle tank, and so ideal for city fight.

Also, I would like some play testers for this, let me know if you are interested, and post something here.

So what you want is a Lower cost eradicator? Personally, I'd rather see the Eradicator reduced to 155 points to make it more competitive.

Nope. It has more strength, and less armour then an eradicator, thus compensating.

This tank isn't meant for WAAC, just fluffy, for scenarios, and the ocasionall cities of death battle.

Not bad, do you have a model?

I'm guessing the main gun is a large blast?

Lumbering behemoth . . . I'm not sure, but doesn't lighter and smaller usually also mean faster, not slow and ponderous? Perhaps making the sponsons and hull weapons defensive (Flamers and Heavy Stubbers) instead? Since the main cannon isn't ordnance, you would still be able to fire at full effect while moving, and it would differentiate the tank further from a normal Leman.

Also, Urban Combat generally neccesiates heavier side and rear armor. Maybe 12/12/11 or 13/11/11 instead?

Irdiumstern wrote:Not bad, do you have a model?

I'm guessing the main gun is a large blast?

Lumbering behemoth . . . I'm not sure, but doesn't lighter and smaller usually also mean faster, not slow and ponderous? Perhaps making the sponsons and hull weapons defensive (Flamers and Heavy Stubbers) instead? Since the main cannon isn't ordnance, you would still be able to fire at full effect while moving, and it would differentiate the tank further from a normal Leman.

Also, Urban Combat generally neccesiates heavier side and rear armor. Maybe 12/12/11 or 13/11/11 instead?

This...is very helpfull. Thanks!

Yeah I edited it in. Large blast template, range: 24 inch.

So, I should change lumbering behemoth into fast?

+ going to edit the armour values right away. Going for 12/12/11. But wouldn't I need to buff the points cost? And what about adding the dozer blade as standard wargear?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes, I am building one now. I'm using the rusian KV2 as a base. (Or something)

I would just rather take the Eradicator and get better armour. Seeing as the Eradicator is designed for vs GEQ, with it's S6 it's wounding most infantry on 2+, an extra point of S isn't going to do much. Good idea though.

hm, fluffy i likes it. but yes change it to fast and give it a dozer blade standard. also remove the heavy flamers and bolters as options and replace them with bolters, flamers, and heavy stubbers

OK..I put some thought into your idea and based on the description you stated for the world and reasons for its development I came up with a few design ideas for you..

Based on a Leman russ chassis, but geared for urban/ warfare and tight confines engagement, those requirements lend themselves to the following weapon systems:
The Eradicator style cannon that uses a lower strength cover denying effect.
Flame weapons that ignore cover anyway
High rate of fire weapons that although they may not negate cover, they will force a great deal of saves.

Armor: in order to use these weapons you need to get close, and cityfighting usually involves driving down fire avenues to deliver your payload, without sufficent armor, your vehicle will be immobilized or worse, by all the various troop portable anti armor weapons.

Speed: in this case speed will be secondary to armor, otherwise you have a 1 shot weapon which realisticaly nobod would want to design or dedicate resources to build.

Configuration:
Mount the main weapon in the Hull, to avoid any problems with the turret not being able to traverse due to obstructions and such, also a hull mounted weapon could concievably be a much larger system.
Mount a anti-personnel system in a rotating turret, high rate of fire or flame based.
No sponsons, since these would increase the width of the vehicle and that would limit it from acess to narrow pathways through urban enviroments.

Some kind of armor defence to help defend it from all the favored anti-armor devices, ( melta and such) perhaps allowing it a chance to mitigate the effects a bit.
and Finally maybe even a small troop cap, to carry assault specialists, that can help the vehicle in clearing enemy troops from buildings and such ( sort of the way a Merkava carries troops)

Ok that all stated here's a quick rough draft.

type: Tank
Rules:

Special: Lumbering Behemoth

Cost: ? need to field test

Armour: ( increased based on leman hull and requirements for role )
Front: 14
Side: 13
Rear: 10

Wargear:
Hull mounted
-Urban Battle Cannon Strength: 7 AP: 4 range: 24 inch
Large blast template.
The Minerva's battle cannon is designed to eliminate enemies in heavy cover. As a result, enemies may not take cover saves against the Minerva's Battle Cannon.
(Or some other large short range weapon such as the demolisher cannon)

-Smoke launchers

Options:
The Minerva must take one turret mounted weapon of choice:
- Twin linked Heavy Flamer: ? ( testing )
- Twin linked Heavy Bolter: ? ( testing )
- ( maybe something extreme like a punisher cannon or inferno, both would be excellent for the urban enviro )

( no sponsons for the above reasons )

Transport: 6 models 2 access points on sides of vehicle, only models mounted on 25mm bases may embark. ( or possibly a single rear door )

special rule: ablative, reactive armor ( when hit by a weapon with the melta special rule, the tank makes a die roll before penetration is determined and a on 4+ any extra dice are negated ) or something like that.

Furtermore, the Minerva may take The following options:
- Pintle mounted heavy bolter / heavy stubber: 10 pts
- Hunter killer missile: 10 pts
- Dozer blade: 10 pts
- Extra armour: 15 pts
- Camo netting: 20 pts.

as for point values I never assign any until it gets some playtesting and input from opponents.

Ok well that just me doing a bit of brainstorming for you, and trying to make something a little different from existing designs, at least a little.
I really enjoy reading peoples creative ideas on new units, but seeing a Example model is even better....and alot of fun to do as well

Thanks guys!

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:OK..I put some thought into your idea and based on the description you stated for the world and reasons for its development I came up with a few design ideas for you..

Based on a Leman russ chassis, but geared for urban/ warfare and tight confines engagement, those requirements lend themselves to the following weapon systems:
The Eradicator style cannon that uses a lower strength cover denying effect.
Flame weapons that ignore cover anyway
High rate of fire weapons that although they may not negate cover, they will force a great deal of saves.

Armor: in order to use these weapons you need to get close, and cityfighting usually involves driving down fire avenues to deliver your payload, without sufficent armor, your vehicle will be immobilized or worse, by all the various troop portable anti armor weapons.

Speed: in this case speed will be secondary to armor, otherwise you have a 1 shot weapon which realisticaly nobod would want to design or dedicate resources to build.

Configuration:
Mount the main weapon in the Hull, to avoid any problems with the turret not being able to traverse due to obstructions and such, also a hull mounted weapon could concievably be a much larger system.
Mount a anti-personnel system in a rotating turret, high rate of fire or flame based.
No sponsons, since these would increase the width of the vehicle and that would limit it from acess to narrow pathways through urban enviroments.

Some kind of armor defence to help defend it from all the favored anti-armor devices, ( melta and such) perhaps allowing it a chance to mitigate the effects a bit.
and Finally maybe even a small troop cap, to carry assault specialists, that can help the vehicle in clearing enemy troops from buildings and such ( sort of the way a Merkava carries troops)

Ok that all stated here's a quick rough draft.

type: Tank
Rules:

Special: Lumbering Behemoth

Cost: ? need to field test

Armour: ( increased based on leman hull and requirements for role )
Front: 14
Side: 13
Rear: 10

Wargear:
Hull mounted
-Urban Battle Cannon Strength: 7 AP: 4 range: 24 inch
Large blast template.
The Minerva's battle cannon is designed to eliminate enemies in heavy cover. As a result, enemies may not take cover saves against the Minerva's Battle Cannon.
(Or some other large short range weapon such as the demolisher cannon)

-Smoke launchers

Options:
The Minerva must take one turret mounted weapon of choice:
- Twin linked Heavy Flamer: ? ( testing )
- Twin linked Heavy Bolter: ? ( testing )
- ( maybe something extreme like a punisher cannon or inferno, both would be excellent for the urban enviro )

( no sponsons for the above reasons )

Transport: 6 models 2 access points on sides of vehicle, only models mounted on 25mm bases may embark. ( or possibly a single rear door )

special rule: ablative, reactive armor ( when hit by a weapon with the melta special rule, the tank makes a die roll before penetration is determined and a on 4+ any extra dice are negated ) or something like that.

Furtermore, the Minerva may take The following options:
- Pintle mounted heavy bolter / heavy stubber: 10 pts
- Hunter killer missile: 10 pts
- Dozer blade: 10 pts
- Extra armour: 15 pts
- Camo netting: 20 pts.

as for point values I never assign any until it gets some playtesting and input from opponents.

Ok well that just me doing a bit of brainstorming for you, and trying to make something a little different from existing designs, at least a little.
I really enjoy reading peoples creative ideas on new units, but seeing a Example model is even better....and alot of fun to do as well

Thanks for the input. I agree with some points, but disagree with a lot more. The idea was to design a tank smaller, more compact then a normal Leman Russ. I am using the KV2-Gigant, a russian tank. The turret, and it's gun, are positioned to never over reach the hull, so that won't be a problem for city fighting. In total heigh, from track-hull to turret top, its about the same height of a normal russ, if ypu halve the height of a russes turret. Giving the tank a troop capacity just wouldn't fit. the way I'm building it is way too small to carry any body else other then the crew. the weapons you suggested seem way over powered, and the way you envision it, it sounds more like an apocalypse tank. The sponsons will be small, and attached to the turret. (see the picture for reference) I like your idea for the ablative, reactive armour, but again, it's too 'apocalyptic'. The way I'm building it just makes it look to small to fit on all those cool gizmos and weapons you mentioned.

I'm not sure now. Leave it on lumbering behemoth, or change it to fast.

Here's a picture of an un40k'ed KV2 Gigant. (it's normally a russian tank, but the germans stole this one, could't find a better picture)

well if its a light urban fighter you want then just field hellhounds and their varients and be done with it since its armored about the way you describe has a turret, and is very effective at urban combat, just uses a lighter hull, the problem with the guard is they have vehicles for every niche.

Not sure if the changes I suggested made it apoc level , since at that point we are talking Baneblades and stormlords, but yes it would be a nasty customer, but that is exactly what urban combat is, hence the designs both the gemans and russians fielded in WW2 (brummbar, Sturmtiger , Jsu152 etc, all made for that sort of thing.

But at any rate have fun with it, and test your designs out.

I just skimmed through the topic, but I really don't think "light tank" is in the IG's dictionary.

Think scout sentinal, fourcartridge.

@Soo'Vah'Cha
Yeah, the things you proposed are rather nasty, but I think a small tank, that ignores cover saves when it fires, is rather nasty on itself. + because it's so small, it could get cover saves very easy.

Hellhounds are even bigger then the tank I have in mind for this.

135 points for a short-ranged S7 AP4 cover ignoring blast on an AV12 chassis.

Did I just miss something, or did you just re-invent the hellhound?

Seems almost like a mix between a Leman Russ Conqueror and Eradicator with the armor of a chimera. Maybe give it overcharged engine rule like the salamander scout?

Why not change the tack, and make it a light tank based on the Chimera chassis?

@Kenshin: What are the rules for overcharged engines like the salamander. But wouldn't those overcharged rules be 'strange'? I mean, it's meant of urban environments.If a tank sped at 100 miles per hour through a dense city with sharp street corners. It would crash rather frequently.

@Ailaros: you could say that yes. But yeah, it's mainly done for fluffy reasons, and I think it has enough tweaks to set it apart from the hellhound.

@Ogiwan: Fluff, is all I'm saying.