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OK, splitting this topic off from a different topic where this sort of dragged it OT. What do you guys think? This is specific to the 40k line by GWS.

Note: There is no option for "I don't care" or "Not this again" because simply not participating in this thread would constitute a vote for either of those adequately, in my opinion.

I think it's a good idea in principle. What I doubt is GW's capability to make decent female minis.

I went off topic in the last thread too, but I do feel quite strongly about this. To be honest, I fall into the "no female space marines" camp and I don't think there should be female orks either (as well as what the fluff says - no one really needs to see lady orks!). However, it really is a shame that there is next to no sexual dimorphism in the IG range. There's plenty of Black Library stuff in which guard regiments have a healthy proportion of female soldiers - it might not be 50/50, but it's certainly more than the current model range makes out.

When the last range of inquisitorial models came out, quite a few were female (I remember Inquisitors, acolytes, assassins etc). Despite this being before the lastest Guard update, there were absolutely no female models released for guard at all. Does anyone know if there are even any references to female guard in the codex?

I'm assuming this is all because GW thinks female models don't sell. I must admit, I have no idea whether this is true or not - if it is, then it's at least understandable from a business perspective why there aren't that many female models in the range. It's still a shame though.

I also agree with the no female space marines thing, but for a different reason. We already have female space marines: Sisters of Battle. Granted they aren't true space marines, however they wear the same armor, and use bolters, so they are IMO a great stand in. Even though the current miniature kinda suck, they are still a great alternate to space marines, and I intend on picking some up just for fun.

Okay I admit. I want me some female orks...


There should be female space marines. Heck the two lost chapters could be all female, which is why they were removed from history. HA!

Yeah, female IG and Tau would be welcome. Also, female space marines are a cool and incredibly sexy idea. Just as long as they wore the same amount of power armour as their battle brothers. I want female minis, just not sexist depictions.

i want more female characters in 40k mostly orks because would be fun.

I would personally love some more female firewarriors or other variations of Tau, or Kroot if they have ladies with lady parts or however kroot make babies.

Finally They do not all need to emulate Shadowsuns excessive hair, yes it's cool, but not everyone needs it.

The Dreadnote wrote:I think it's a good idea in principle. What I doubt is GW's capability to make decent female minis.

My thoughts ran along the same lines upon seeing the title for this thread.

Sisters of Battle need to have more added to their lines and be as OP as GK so more people would collect them and you would therefore see a rise in not only female units, but female armies and the like. Also, Dark Eldar have just got a new codex, with a mostly female list (i think), but you don't see much of them (well i don't, anyway). Eldar have some female units, and could do with them coming out in plastic; not only because they're aspect warriors, but also because they are female (howling banshees)

They definately need more female-based miniatures. Alot of the female characters are painfully hard to convert because we only normally get male models outside of a select few (and there's only three sets I know of that has regular plastic female parts, and they have alot of specific aesthetics tied to them, making it unsuited for certain conversions) and male proportions look awkward on what's suppose to be a female (if you have problem imagining this, imagine a body building woman high on steroids. YEAH).

not all armies need them, and marines, in the fluff, have always referred to each other "sir". none of the primarchs were female either.

This reminds me, I wish they'd do an updated version of the female commissar model. Whip it goooooood~

Although I appreciate the reasons why some would want more female minis, war has always been a predominately male affair, and the m:f ration is about right, I think.

So, not all lines should have female model options (necron, space marines, etc.), but I do agree that there could definitely be some gender balancing. DE did a good job with this.

The way GW handles female models is awkward and painful. It's almost like they lost a sexual discrimination lawsuit, and so made an all-lady army as part of the settlement (and then decided to treat it as a second class codex all the same).

Really, they don't even need to add new units, or change the codex, they could just add more model lines.

Of course, there's still so much in the codecies that's NOT had a model made for it yet, so optional female variants will have to get in line.

'not all armies need them, and marines, in the fluff, have always referred to each other "sir". none of the primarchs were female either. '

It's common practise in modern armed forces to refer to a superior as sir, regardless of gender.

Are all the primarchs accounted for? (i'm not up on the black library fluff, because a lot of it is retconned and/or not very good. Some are ok though..)

Who says that some of the Primarchs (a gender neutral term btw) weren't female? We've had a female pope that no-one knew was female at the time, and several famous pirates that everyone assumed were male were female...

My vote would be on sanguinus He's too purty

Fulgrim is a good contender for a possible female primarch, even pre-heresy (the artbook makes him look quite feminine). Same goes for Sanguinus. However the Emperor specifically created them and their gene seed seems to be only male-compatable, so at least all existing primarchs were male (it'd be kinda weird of the gene seeds were all exclusively male compatable, but came from both genders).

It would be nice to see some Tau Females outside of Shadowsun. The model looks quite cute actually (and other models are great opportunities for anime eyes). On the other end of the spectrum, I really, really dont wanna see another Ork Female ever again....

Or that Loli Necron with gauss boobs.....

*goes and takes a keg of brainbleach*

Wow, that's an interesting poll! suprising!

I would love to see female Space Marines but I think GW would do a gak job on them.

A bit more dimorphism in the IG, Eldar (who are actually fairly good for that already) and Tau would be nice. Other than that, seems cool. Not really fussed about fem-marines, it could be cool, but it also has the potential to be done very, very badly.

I'd like to say no because GW's female sculpting abilities are equal to that of a monkey throwing its own poop at a stick and hoping it turns into a masterpiece.

then again there male sculpting is about the same.

The Dreadnote wrote:I think it's a good idea in principle. What I doubt is GW's capability to make decent female minis.

Amen.


Achem: on the issue of femarines.

Personally, I see no reason why not, and before someone screams 'fluff!!!!' and tries to smack me with a printed out copy of lexicanum bound into a bible, hear me out:

Let's look at the real reason that, previously, there have been no female space marines. No, I'm not talking about the extra genetic improbabilities on top the already impossible biology of space marines, I'm talking about grimdark. Female space marines are not grimdark.

Why?

Because it, equality among the super ass kickers, would be a positive thing. Positive things do not exist in 40k (to the degree that one wonders how electricity works) and Space Marines are asexual super soldier psychopaths who have absolutely no recognizable human emotions whatsoever besides rage and the need to kill in the name of their god. They represent the very worst parts of humanity from it's very grimmest period, weaponized.

But, wait, you say, that's changed since x edition! Look at all those nice novels about how honorable and human the space marines are!

Yes, and that brings me to my next point: things have changed. Previously, and this was correct, many people claimed that femarines would undermine how space marines are in fluff. However, thanks to writers such as McNeill, this is no longer the case. Space Marines are now supposed to be noble knights, as seen through the rose tinted soft focus view we all have of chivalry. They are now no longer the asexual inhuman killing machines that they used to be. (And very much not asexual in the case of Space Wolves).

So, you say, what of it? So space marines are now moral and positive beings? And?

Female space marines existing would have 0 impact on this. In fact, it might help it a bit, where the Inquisition and Soroitas (who are still screaming hateful religious fanatics, so far) do not.

But Space marines are supposed to be knight monastic orders and such you say. Where were those in the source material (ie history)?

Historically, all female knightly orders existed, and some where even martial (read: combat oriented) orders.

But fluff says....

Fluff gets re-written by GW on an hourly basis (even when it's not passed off to subcontractors such as FFG). If they figured that they would sell more space marines if they had greenstuff boobs on there, you bet your ass that you'd see femarines on every storeshelf. Saying 'well fluff says' is about as effective against GW editorial fiat as flak armor is against a demolisher cannon. Look at Grey Knights. Or Lamentors. Remember when the Emperor was just some guy, and still alive? Back when squats roamed the the universe?

I've heard that Matt Ward is going to retcon all space marines as being female. This will of course require you to buy all new marine armies, as any male marines will be ruled illegal, and out of fluff.

On a serious note, the OP listed an option for females where "sexual dimorphism is present". As has been mentioned repeatedly, it is not present in marines (anymore), and I don't think he is advocating femarines. I think this is mainly about IG, who more or less are supposed to emulate modern military forces, many regiments being directly influenced by specific armies from Earth's history. In the modern military, almost every army has serving women. The Imperial Guard has 2 women in the last Chancers, 1 in the Catachans, and 1 dressed up as an s&m commisar.
I think if done right, I think female soldiers can be Grimdark. What's Grimdarkier than BOTH parents going off to war, leaving their children to raise themselves, or be raised by a nanny-servitor?

Didnt Lexicanium mention that "standard" guard regiments only get new recruits either from other destroyed regiments, or through the padonkadonk of the parents?

The first one! Yes, I'd love that!

IG, eldar, DE, tau (I think) and maybe Chaos Traitors could all use a couple female sculpts. I'm not sure how they would integrate them into the lines, but it'd be great.

For chaos traitors, I think women could be fit in. The Gods care little for race, apparently. In a couple books I've read, the traitors seem to be both sexes.

Yeah, IG is an equal opportunity employer- everyone gets to die for the Emporer :-)

As to fem marines, why not? We already have sparkly vampire marines, wolfy marines, and Inquisition! marines. Retconning fluff is nothing new (I expect SMs to get LAZORS! in the next edition) and often takes it to ridiculous levels (see any fluff by Matt Ward). Plus, the palpable nerdrage is LOL.

But the models would probably still look like a man.... GW history is pretty fail at sculpting females.

Acardia wrote:I would personally love some more female firewarriors or other variations of Tau, or Kroot if they have ladies with lady parts or however kroot make babies.

Finally They do not all need to emulate Shadowsuns excessive hair, yes it's cool, but not everyone needs it.

lol

Sorry! Meant to join last post.

As for Femarines, I see no reason why you couldn't just use DE or Dark elf heads on regular space marines. It'd be cool.

As long as even Jes Goodwin thinks that men and women share the same hip form (see new Dark Eldar warriors and Wyches), you won't be happy with more female GW models. If someone tells them that men and women actually look different (and not just boobs and a pony-tail), then a new era might begin
Until then we have to beg non-GW manufacturers to produce female conversion bitz and models.

BTW Kroot ladies look practically identical to Kroot males, they just smell different

Female Space Marines can be done really well.



GW would not do them nearly that well.

Ascalam wrote:
It's common practise in modern armed forces to refer to a superior as sir, regardless of gender.

What military is this in?

And I say yes IG, Tau and (Dark)Eldar (though both races have some) as far as the whole fem-marines thing, I could care less, but I see them as being male. The whole geneseed thing, and despite Fulgrim being effeminate, still pretty sure he was male on a chromosomal level.

Though that brings up interesting points such as Intersex, where a child starts to become male in the womb, but due to a bad arm in the Y chromosome, produces zero male hormones (eg testosterone) so the body stops formation of the male organs. Pretty much, the person has the plumbing of a female, it doesn't work right and they carry the XY chromosome. This is a gross over simplification, and for the record no I don't think that's what was intended for Fulgrim, I think he was just a ponce.