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ArbeitsSchu wrote:So, after all this, do we think that sales of Infinity miniatures have gone up or down?

I reckon UP. Too many nice figs to not buy some of them.

Well, I literally just bought the Myrmidon Box Set, Myrmidon Officer (who I doubt someone would call "cheesecake", even though she is a women), and Achilles (who is a bit of a "cheesecake", despite being a man), so for my part they have gone up...

My opinion does not count legally.
I buy Infinity every month. Have 4 armies.

Melissia wrote:And only you are allowed to dictate what is cool, then?

Nope, but lots of people seem to think pinup miniatures are cool.

Well, if the most badass person on this planet says they aren't you damn agree if you know what's good for you!

Much of these problems of finding another manufacturer could be solved in Corvus Belli releases weapon-packs for the different factions. It'd feel off to use the PanO Hexas models as Posthumans if I couldn't at least give them Aleph guns.

Also:

Arm.chair.general wrote:What's so bad with cheesecake models? If you don't like 'em don't buy 'em, simple as.

Besides this model looks awesome:
***Image of a model without a range***

That Studio McVey model is not part of a range. It has no 'faction' or 'uniformity' to conform to. Read the thread.

Arm.chair.general wrote:What's so bad with cheesecake models? If you don't like 'em don't buy 'em, simple as.

Read the thread.

Mastiff wrote:Hoping that a company will make an alternative to a successful product because a minority won't buy it is unrealistic. What Kan can control is finding an alternative.

There are people that voice their opinion when something is unsatisfactory, and there are people that quietly accept the problem and learn to cope with it.

Mastiff wrote:Do you feel getting CB to make a more conservative alternative to a successful mini is simpler than Kan looking for a substitute among their existing line?

The Posthumans aren't even out yet. They're hardly "successful".

Mastiff wrote:You're adorable. Don't ever change.

I love you too, dear.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:What utter toss. Miniature games have worked like this since a bunch of beardies in the 60s took a load of plastic airfix men and kitbashed Orcs out of them. Probably even before that. Just because GW and their ilk have forced the issue by demanding that players only play their games with their official men/dice/tape measures/paints/clothes, doesn't mean that anybody else in the world gives a crap for that idea. I use Rackham and Heresy figures in my Cryx army. I have PSC/Battlefront/Old Glory/QRF figures in my FOW armies. I used a 1/35 Leopard Tank conversion as a battlewagon for years.

An Aleph sniper is (apparently) a girl with a sniper rifle, some sort of goggles, and that's about it. Mcvey has a girl with a rifle. I'll add a bit of brass rod for a suppressor. She already HAS goggles. Job done. Guess what? I just bought a Haqqislam sniper to use with another ruleset!! OMG! Clearly I must be acting with act with a cavalier disegard for the Hobby and its "rules" which say I can only use a figure for the game setting it was designed for, must NOT mix manufacturers, or use a similar figure . Emperor preserve my heretical soul for painting in non-codex schemes!!!

Studio McVey models are 32mm. Infinity miniatures are 28mm realistic. That argument is invalid.

Also, nobody is demanding you play Infinity with Corvus Belli models. In fact, everyone that plays Infinity likely LOVES Corvus Belli models. They're the best metal models I've ever had the pleasure of painting. That doesn't mean I don't like some of their design choices.

15mm WWII models further deviate from that. A Tiger Tank is a Tiger Tank, the only difference between companies is the quality. Shoving a random 32mm Studio McVey girl with a gun into an Infinity army would be out of place; McVey makes some great stuff, but it doesn't fit in everyplace where guns are involved. Also, just because you sub-in Rackham models into your World of Warcraft army doesn't mean people that play other games are fans of that.

Finally, adding a brass rod to a random gun isn't good enough. Some people, most people, are fans of a bit of uniformity. If I have an army of Space Marines and three guys in it are equipped with muskets, I'd be dissatisfied.

---

As I've said, many of these conversion and counts-as problems would be greatly alleviated if CB would release faction-specific weapon packs.

I'm going to use the Haqqislam sniper in the same force as the Dark Ages chap, for a game that is neither Infinity nor Dark Ages.

I suspect that Absolutionis's head might actually implode if he reads this. Maybe I should "spoiler" it?

ArbeitsSchu wrote:I'm going to use the Haqqislam sniper in the same force as the Dark Ages chap, for a game that is neither Infinity nor Dark Ages.

I suspect that Absolutionis's head might actually implode if he reads this. Maybe I should "spoiler" it?

I think my mind is blown over how much you've completely missed the point of this thread.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:So, after all this, do we think that sales of Infinity miniatures have gone up or down?

I reckon UP. Too many nice figs to not buy some of them.

The more people that see the models, the more they will sell, if only if people want to play the game with them. With free rules, free army builder, and an average team of about 10 models, it's a pretty cheap game to get into.

Melissia wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:Thing is, this is the company that wants your money by offering you choices, download free or get paper Rbook with extras for a price, get models or use proxies, use the free army builter

And this is relevant, how?

(hint: it's not)

Those facts do nothing to change my opinions.

It should change your opinion because they never imposed you to buy anything from them even if you want to play their games.
Its like you enter a sushi restaurant, but don't like a type red sushi ( even if fresh and good quality) and complain about it ... Its ok, just don't say they need to adapt menu to your tastes and that if they want your money they better have more options that fits your palate... Next day you come in see same menu and say the chef that did red sushi you don't approve of is lonely and horny and complain again... next day you will be blocked from entering and invited to eat elsewhere NOT because of your tastes but the way you express your opinions are inappropriate...
So maybe just maybe the fact Corvus belli gives you choices even if you dislike parts of the menu and lets you bring in food from other restaurants should help you realize that sometimes companies don't just and I quote you " want my money".

Absolutionis wrote:Much of these problems of finding another manufacturer could be solved in Corvus Belli releases weapon-packs for the different factions. It'd feel off to use the PanO Hexas models as Posthumans if I couldn't at least give them Aleph guns.

Also:

Arm.chair.general wrote:What's so bad with cheesecake models? If you don't like 'em don't buy 'em, simple as.

Besides this model looks awesome:
***Image of a model without a range***

That Studio McVey model is not part of a range. It has no 'faction' or 'uniformity' to conform to. Read the thread.

Arm.chair.general wrote:What's so bad with cheesecake models? If you don't like 'em don't buy 'em, simple as.

Read the thread.

Mastiff wrote:Hoping that a company will make an alternative to a successful product because a minority won't buy it is unrealistic. What Kan can control is finding an alternative.

There are people that voice their opinion when something is unsatisfactory, and there are people that quietly accept the problem and learn to cope with it.

Mastiff wrote:Do you feel getting CB to make a more conservative alternative to a successful mini is simpler than Kan looking for a substitute among their existing line?

The Posthumans aren't even out yet. They're hardly "successful".

Mastiff wrote:You're adorable. Don't ever change.

I love you too, dear.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:What utter toss. Miniature games have worked like this since a bunch of beardies in the 60s took a load of plastic airfix men and kitbashed Orcs out of them. Probably even before that. Just because GW and their ilk have forced the issue by demanding that players only play their games with their official men/dice/tape measures/paints/clothes, doesn't mean that anybody else in the world gives a crap for that idea. I use Rackham and Heresy figures in my Cryx army. I have PSC/Battlefront/Old Glory/QRF figures in my FOW armies. I used a 1/35 Leopard Tank conversion as a battlewagon for years.

An Aleph sniper is (apparently) a girl with a sniper rifle, some sort of goggles, and that's about it. Mcvey has a girl with a rifle. I'll add a bit of brass rod for a suppressor. She already HAS goggles. Job done. Guess what? I just bought a Haqqislam sniper to use with another ruleset!! OMG! Clearly I must be acting with act with a cavalier disegard for the Hobby and its "rules" which say I can only use a figure for the game setting it was designed for, must NOT mix manufacturers, or use a similar figure . Emperor preserve my heretical soul for painting in non-codex schemes!!!

Studio McVey models are 32mm. Infinity miniatures are 28mm realistic. That argument is invalid.

Also, nobody is demanding you play Infinity with Corvus Belli models. In fact, everyone that plays Infinity likely LOVES Corvus Belli models. They're the best metal models I've ever had the pleasure of painting. That doesn't mean I don't like some of their design choices.

15mm WWII models further deviate from that. A Tiger Tank is a Tiger Tank, the only difference between companies is the quality. Shoving a random 32mm Studio McVey girl with a gun into an Infinity army would be out of place; McVey makes some great stuff, but it doesn't fit in everyplace where guns are involved. Also, just because you sub-in Rackham models into your World of Warcraft army doesn't mean people that play other games are fans of that.

Finally, adding a brass rod to a random gun isn't good enough. Some people, most people, are fans of a bit of uniformity. If I have an army of Space Marines and three guys in it are equipped with muskets, I'd be dissatisfied.

---

As I've said, many of these conversion and counts-as problems would be greatly alleviated if CB would release faction-specific weapon packs.

Conformity? I'm talking about a girl with a sniper rifle? So what if Mcvey stuff is a slightly different scale? (Besides, I've found in my decades of purchasing figures that nominal scale differences can often mean very little when taken in direct comparison.) You've clearly become too caught up with disproving the random example to understand the greater theory behind the suggested conversion. There are literally hundreds of other "girls" and thousands of other "guns" to choose from. Google "female sniper miniature" and see how many pop up.

I fail to see anything about that Naga figure that makes it so utterly different to any other body-suit model that it couldn't be reasonably proxied by another manufacturers figure, or maybe even another Aleph with a gun swap. The rifle itself isn't noteworthy or hugely different to any other sniper rifle either in the CB range or in 28mm at all. Its certainly not as different as a black powder musket (once legal in 40k anyway) and a hand-cannon firing hi-explosive mass-reactive caseless rocket-shells. Thinking about it, my old Nurgle Death Guard army HAD a champion with a musket and he fitted just fine.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:I fail to see anything about that Naga figure that makes it so utterly different to any other body-suit model that it couldn't be reasonably proxied by another manufacturers figure, or maybe even another Aleph with a gun swap.

Good, I see you agree with me.
It'd be nice if CB provides a small pack of guns so we can do these conversions. Until then, I can't justify buying another $10 model that I already have only to rip off the gun.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:So what if Mcvey stuff is a slightly different scale? (Besides, I've found in my decades of purchasing figures that nominal scale differences can often mean very little when taken in direct comparison.)

Opinions. Mine differ from yours.
It's another instance of me not tolerating the drastic difference and you being totally fine with "meh, good enough".

NAVARRO wrote:Its ok, just don't say they need to adapt menu to your tastes and that if they want your money they better have more options that fits your palate...

Why not?

There is nothing at all wrong with asking for different options.

The idea that it is wrong to complain is laughable.

And really, your analogy is pretty screwed up too, as most restaurants wouldn't like it if you, say, brought in your own salad to eat alongside the meal they cooked when they have a salad to provide. In fact, in some (if not many) places that'd get you kicked out.

I agree with you saying that the figure is so faction-specific that one couldn't possibly use any other figure from anywhere else to field it, by pointing out how incredibly generic and "done" the figure already is by dozens of other manufacturers? I think your helmet must be on backwards son.

Absolutionis wrote:Studio McVey models are 32mm. Infinity miniatures are 28mm realistic. That argument is invalid.

.

Odd I would like to believe that you have CB minis, because scale on same range on same faction that I have here is all over the place so your 28mm realistic claim is NOT entirely truth... Not only that but any converter changes the base hight and voila 32mm fits right in... Speaking of mcvey minis sedition wars is factions based so there's some uniformity there for you...
In short we can stay here all day debating if it fits or not, point is it fits if you want it to fit and make it happen but if you dont you will pin point every possible hypothetical problem in the book.

NAVARRO wrote:Speaking of mcvey minis sedition wars is factions based so there's some uniformity there for you...
In short we can stay here all day debating if it fits or not, point is it fits if you want it to fit and make it happen but if you dont you will pin point every possible hypothetical problem in the book.

I do, however, own every model in the Aleph line up until the Posthumans. Sedition Wars is a great line, but they don't fit with my current figures.

Funny thing is, I used the aforementioned Naga Sniper in comparison to a 32mm model a few months ago. I see the difference, and I don't see them compatible enough for my tastes.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/318593.page#1955597

---

ArbeitsSchu wrote:I agree with you saying that the figure is so faction-specific that one couldn't possibly use any other figure from anywhere else to field it, by pointing out how incredibly generic and "done" the figure already is by dozens of other manufacturers? I think your helmet must be on backwards son.

Take the blindfold off, kid. You quoted it yourself:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:Much of these problems of finding another manufacturer could be solved in Corvus Belli releases weapon-packs for the different factions. It'd feel off to use the PanO Hexas models as Posthumans if I couldn't at least give them Aleph guns.

I say I would like to use Aleph guns with PanO models if Aleph guns were available.

You suggest using proxies and attaching the appropriate gun.

NAVARRO wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:Studio McVey models are 32mm. Infinity miniatures are 28mm realistic. That argument is invalid.

.

Odd I would like to believe that you have CB minis, because scale on same range on same faction that I have here is all over the place so your 28mm realistic claim is NOT entirely truth... Not only that but any converter changes the base hight and voila 32mm fits right in... Speaking of mcvey minis sedition wars is factions based so there's some uniformity there for you...
In short we can stay here all day debating if it fits or not, point is it fits if you want it to fit and make it happen but if you dont you will pin point every possible hypothetical problem in the book.

LOL Sedition Wars even has a sniper girl with the same damn rifle and bodysuit! I hadn't even clocked that one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Absolutionis wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:I agree with you saying that the figure is so faction-specific that one couldn't possibly use any other figure from anywhere else to field it, by pointing out how incredibly generic and "done" the figure already is by dozens of other manufacturers? I think your helmet must be on backwards son.

Take the blindfold off, kid. You quoted it yourself:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:Much of these problems of finding another manufacturer could be solved in Corvus Belli releases weapon-packs for the different factions. It'd feel off to use the PanO Hexas models as Posthumans if I couldn't at least give them Aleph guns.

I say I would like to use Aleph guns with PanO models if Aleph guns were available.

You suggest using proxies and attaching the appropriate gun.

Lets just clarify this: I have suggested one can use almost ANY female miniature in a bodysuit from ANY range, and almost ANY sniper rifle from ANY range that is broadly the right scale because the Naga is so very very generic. You want a figure from IN the range (because otherwise it won't fit, and you won't care about the hobby and whatever yadda yadda) using a gun from IN the range. There is a distinct difference. You clearly believe that ONLY CB miniatures could possibly fit with other CB miniatures, I insist otherwise. That's not "agreeing" with you. Its "opposing" you.

NAVARRO wrote:[snip; restaurant analogy]

Really, to continue this, I have a far better analogy using he restaurant basis you used:

Imagine if you went to a restaurant ,and you ate their food and didn't really like a particular addition to their meals. So after you leave, you tell your friends/acquaintances that you don't like it and don't plan on eating there anymore-- unless they make additions their menu to match your tastes. Then one of your friends/acquaintances gets pissed off and starts going off on you, rabidly defending the restaurant in question, insulting you for your different taste in food.

That's what you and several other people in this thread are acting like to me. How DARE I dislike a certain model in the line and wish that they would produce something else, right?

I'm honestly flabbergasted that people get so insulting and downright mean just because not everyone likes the models they do.

Melissia wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:[snip; restaurant analogy]

Really, to continue this, I have a far better analogy using he restaurant basis you used:

Imagine if you went to a restaurant ,and you ate their food and didn't really like a particular addition to their meals. So after you leave, you tell your friends/acquaintances that you don't like it and don't plan on eating there anymore-- unless they change their menu to match your tastes. Then one of your friends/acquaintances gets pissed off and starts rabidly defending the restaurant in question, insulting you for your different taste in food.

That's what you and several other people are acting like to me.

Hey, I just suggested you could proxy in the salad instead!

Melissia wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:Its ok, just don't say they need to adapt menu to your tastes and that if they want your money they better have more options that fits your palate...

Why not?

There is nothing at all wrong with asking for different options.

The idea that it is wrong to complain is laughable.

And really, your analogy is pretty screwed up too, as most restaurants wouldn't like it if you, say, brought in your own salad to eat alongside the meal they cooked when they have a salad to provide. In fact, in some (if not many) places that'd get you kicked out.

Wrong to complain? is that all you take from the post? read again please.

Yes others restaurants/ minis companies would kick you out... Thats the point! Others just want your money! CB gives you freebies and lets you go wild with their game/menu the least you could do is complain with some respect for their work and their workers.
I dont think your inclined to even read carefully or maybe I'm just a bit tired of saying to you the same thing over and over again, even with screwed analogies to try to reach you... You just don't seem to get it.


EDIT: You edited your post 3 times no patience to continue sorry, cheers.

Navarro reminded me of a post I made in the Infinity thread a few months ago:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/318593.page#1955597

The scale difference exists. It's unsatisfactory for my tastes.

Melissia wrote:

That's what you and several other people in this thread are acting like to me. How DARE I dislike a certain model in the line and wish that they would produce something else, right?

I'm honestly flabbergasted that people get so insulting and downright mean just because not everyone likes the models they do.

Youve missed the point people have been trying to make with you by miles. No one minds that you dont like the model, but for some reason its abhorrent to you to just not buy the thing, you seem to want it gone instead. Maybe you dont mean quite this, but this is what youve been typing, over and over and over.

Melissia wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:[snip; restaurant analogy]

Really, to continue this, I have a far better analogy using he restaurant basis you used:

Imagine if you went to a restaurant ,and you ate their food and didn't really like a particular addition to their meals. So after you leave, you tell your friends/acquaintances that you don't like it and don't plan on eating there anymore-- unless they make additions their menu to match your tastes. Then one of your friends/acquaintances gets pissed off and starts going off on you, rabidly defending the restaurant in question, insulting you for your different taste in food.

That's what you and several other people in this thread are acting like to me. How DARE I dislike a certain model in the line and wish that they would produce something else, right?

I'm honestly flabbergasted that people get so insulting and downright mean just because not everyone likes the models they do.

Despite what you might believe, disagreeing with you isn't the same as insulting you. As far as insults go, you are the one throwing adjectives like "stupid", "gak" and expressions like "horny, lonely sculptors" around...

Skippy wrote:you seem to want it gone instead.

That is, and always has been false, no matter how many times you try to lie about it.

So please, stop lying about what I have said. It is pissing me off.

I very specifically stated taht I don't want them gone, I want the company to produce an alternative, non-cheesecake model.

NAVARRO wrote:Wrong to complain? is that all you take from the post? read again please.

I did. That is the essence of what you are saying.

NAVARRO wrote:Others just want your money!

So does this company, last I checked they aren't non-profit.

NAVARRO wrote: CB gives you freebies and lets you go wild with their game/menu the least you could do is complain with some respect for their work and their workers.

Seriously, you're complaining that I might hurt their feelings or something?

NAVARRO wrote:I'm just a bit tired of saying to you the same thing over and over again, even with screwed analogies to try to reach you... You just don't seem to get it.

Or maybe you need to understand the fact that not everyone likes the same models you do and that insulting them isn't going to change this.

GW figures are oversized and basically fat chunky types, so I'll ignore those. The closest I can see with those posts is the Malifaux figure next to the Alephs? Between the bases, heels and hats I can't honestly determine if there really is a huge size difference, or scale disparity. Nevertheless, just because there is disparity between one range and another does not mean that ALL ranges are incompatible.

Exactly ArbeitsSchu, scale disparity exists in between and within many ranges but someting around 28mm to 32mm there's not much problems for me just play with the base a bit and all fits in... But I do understand people less liberal about it.

Absolutionis wrote:

Mastiff wrote:Hoping that a company will make an alternative to a successful product because a minority won't buy it is unrealistic. What Kan can control is finding an alternative.

There are people that voice their opinion when something is unsatisfactory, and there are people that quietly accept the problem and learn to cope with it.

Cope with it, and adapt to the situation by working with the available materials. I call them "hobbyists".

Oh snap.

Mastiff just laid down the law!

Mastiff wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:

Mastiff wrote:Hoping that a company will make an alternative to a successful product because a minority won't buy it is unrealistic. What Kan can control is finding an alternative.

There are people that voice their opinion when something is unsatisfactory, and there are people that quietly accept the problem and learn to cope with it.

Cope with it, and adapt to the situation by working with the available materials. I call them "hobbyists".

What available materials? Is there a bits service somewhere I'm missing? Because I can't order the sniper rifle from the ALEPH Posthuman to use on a spare Dasyu body. I have to buy a set of Posthumans(three of the models I loathe from that range) to get one bit.

When GW does that, it's criminal. Infinity does it and it's "adapting"?

Go Go bikini armor saves!

I thought cheesecake was also called fan service.

Melissia wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:Why should one be forced to purchase exclusively from a single manufacturer to field a clearly generic figure?

Outside of GW you're not forced to. But again, why should I be restricted from complaining about the company's lack of ability to produce models to my taste?

They want my money, they make what I want to buy. If his offends you... sorry?

Wait, no I'm not-- I'm not sorry at all.

edit: .... Okay, so Iguess I'm going to put PhantomViper on ignore because he believes that stating one's opinion is the same as forcing it on someone else, which is a belief that so defies logic, intelligent thought, or reason that it makes me want to murder someone. This is not a pleasant fealing.

Melissia wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:No my friend not only your not the only one but any seasoned war gamer or collector has embraced that many moons ago. Its the GW and FOW generation that cant seem to think outside those ridiculous boxes... A shame really because many give up wargaming without even knowing what wargames are all about.

I've looked through other catalogues, but my point still remains that it is the fault of the company that their miniature range is so limited.

gunslingerpro wrote:After reading the entire thread, I can say that I've never seen such a demand for pandering to one's specific tastes.

Why not? I am the customer. If they want my money, they give me something I want to buy.

These comments by Melissia illustrate a rather daft sentiment that keeps popping up in this thread, best exemplified by this;

Melissia wrote:Why should one be forced to buy from a different company just to play the first company's game without buying gak models?

What makes this so daft is that it's essentially asking CB to throw money away.

Every company of this type has gaps in their model ranges, a consequence of a limited amount of money and a limited amount of time/energy they can extract from their sculptors.

As I pointed out, yea these many moons ago regarding the Chimera model,

Buzzsaw wrote:-Infinity models are supposed to be sexy.
...
Seriously, read the article from Gutier Lusquiños I posted earlier;

After few attempts, Carlos Torres made an animalistic design, an option used before in some Nomad female troops, as the Daktari, but now it was boosted to the extreme. Those previous designs have human faces with just some animal features such as ears and tail. Now, the challenge was to design a human-animal face that keeps the characteristic attractiveness of the Infinity girls. This ended up as the “Winter Vixen” the version you can see in Concept File-2. Its name comes from the main inspiration for this design, which was the arctic fox.
...
Our other concept designer, Alberto Abal, was in charge of the Chimera’s Viral CC weapon. With this, we want to delve into the idea of an urban fighter, going beyond typical close combat weapons such as knives, swords or axes. We needed a weapon that fitted the “weird” concept of the Chimera, but would also help find a sexy pose for her. So, the final proposal was not a mere sword, but a high-tech bladed chain you can see in the Concept File-2.
...
The pose for the Chimera was suggested to the sculptor by the concept designers, as they know the style of the sexy Infinity girls. However, for the Pupniks, Pedro was totally free to decide which pose to give them, as we all know he has a special talent to sculpt beast men.

So, we know one thing for sure; CB's creative team regards "the characteristic attractiveness of the Infinity girls" as a selling point, as their "hook". So, are they correct? According to Melissia... yes.

Melissia wrote:

dogma wrote:Its a wargame. A fantasy. It predicated on rule of cool.

And only you are allowed to dictate what is cool, then?

JudgeShamgar wrote:Not you, you the individual but YOU as in people who buy the product. Someone must be buying these or the company would go under.

I am not under the ludicrous opinion that just because something is popular it must be good.

This is where it all just falls apart. If they consider "the characteristic attractiveness of the Infinity girls" as a selling point, and it, in fact, is a selling point (the models that display this characteristic are "popular"), then what conceivable rational is there for them to spend quite a lot of money in an attempt to capture the business of the disgruntled few? Moreover, given that funds are limited, providing this "off-company" sculpt necessarily means diverting a sculptor away from other, as yet unfilled, models in the range.

Far better, from a business point of view, to farm those customers out to smaller, more niche manufacturers...

ArbeitsSchu wrote:What utter toss. Miniature games have worked like this since a bunch of beardies in the 60s took a load of plastic airfix men and kitbashed Orcs out of them. Probably even before that. Just because GW and their ilk have forced the issue by demanding that players only play their games with their official men/dice/tape measures/paints/clothes, doesn't mean that anybody else in the world gives a crap for that idea. I use Rackham and Heresy figures in my Cryx army. I have PSC/Battlefront/Old Glory/QRF figures in my FOW armies. I used a 1/35 Leopard Tank conversion as a battlewagon for years.

An Aleph sniper is (apparently) a girl with a sniper rifle, some sort of goggles, and that's about it. Mcvey has a girl with a rifle. I'll add a bit of brass rod for a suppressor. She already HAS goggles. Job done. Guess what? I just bought a Haqqislam sniper to use with another ruleset!! OMG! Clearly I must be acting with act with a cavalier disegard for the Hobby and its "rules" which say I can only use a figure for the game setting it was designed for, must NOT mix manufacturers, or use a similar figure . Emperor preserve my heretical soul for painting in non-codex schemes!!!

You see, this is (among many places) where GW has it so boneheaded wrong in their case against CH: there is always going to be that idiosyncratic minority that doesn't want what everyone else wants, rather then chase them, let others explore that market, and see how they do.

For example, if the market for ultra-realistic female sci-fi troopers explodes, that's a pretty big hint to everyone (including CB) that they ought to get in on that sweet, sweet cheddar. What's so sad about the stance "Why should one be forced to buy from a different company" is that by boycotting the manufacturers of the models you claim to want, all makers start thinking that there really isn't a market there for the product.

See, remember above when I asked "what conceivable rational is there for them to spend quite a lot of money in an attempt to capture the business of the disgruntled few?" The rational is... that the disgruntled aren't so darned few.

Of course, the above is also where the restraunt analogy...

Melissia wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:[snip; restaurant analogy]

Really, to continue this, I have a far better analogy using he restaurant basis you used:

Imagine if you went to a restaurant ,and you ate their food and didn't really like a particular addition to their meals. So after you leave, you tell your friends/acquaintances that you don't like it and don't plan on eating there anymore-- unless they make additions their menu to match your tastes. Then one of your friends/acquaintances gets pissed off and starts going off on you, rabidly defending the restaurant in question, insulting you for your different taste in food.

That's what you and several other people in this thread are acting like to me. How DARE I dislike a certain model in the line and wish that they would produce something else, right?

I'm honestly flabbergasted that people get so insulting and downright mean just because not everyone likes the models they do.

Falls down. As pointed out above, there are real differences between the situation of a restaurant and the model maker, which make the situations fundamentally dissimilar. To wit;
-If you go into a restaurant, and say "You know, I really don't like the goat cheese on that burger, I want cheddar," or "I I'd prefer sun dried tomatoes with the pesto," these are fundamentally zero opportunity cost suggestions. That is, listening to the customer does nothing to anyone else.

-With a model maker, there is an opportunity cost. Sculpting one thing means another project gets pushed back: pursuing one artistic direction precludes pursuing the other.

So, if passions seem high, it's important to realize that, in a very real way, many of the arguments that seem to be "I want them to make what I like and what others like" in practice are really "I want them to make what I like rather then what others like."