Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Fetterkey wrote:Personally, I give feedback so that companies have a better idea of what their potential customers want. Therefore I consider it important to post both positive and negative critiques of things. I for one consider this element of the Infinity æsthetic/design a problem, because I find it silly and embarrassing and wouldn't want to own any model with such a pose. On the other hand, Morathi's Darkest Sin just posted pictures of several other female Infinity models. While some of those do fall into to the oversexualized category I mentioned earlier, with exposed midriffs and the like (one is even called an odalisque, for heaven's sake!) [...]

While your feedback about the poses and sexiness or not of the figures has some merit, the odalisque thing shows that as usual we point out the straw and forget the bean

wiki wrote:
An odalisque (Turkish: Odalık) was a female slave in an Ottoman seraglio. She was an assistant or apprentice to the concubines and wives, and she might rise in status to become one of them. Most odalisques were part of the Imperial Harem, that is, the household of the sultan.

In short odalisque means female slave

but look what´s in Forge Worlds catalog Hierodule

wiki wrote:In ancient Greece and Anatolia a hierodule, from the Greek ἱεροδούλη (ἱερόν "temple" + δούλη "female slave"), was a temple slave in the service of a specific deity, often with the connotation of religious prostitution. Her prostitution would technically be excused because of the service she provided to the deity.

Oh look prostitutes in our games!

Bad Corvus Belli! bad! Using dirty words that GW would not ever never dare to use
Tho I have to admit that I would buy Infinity´s Odalisque over the FW "lady of the night" a thousand times. Don´t like the poses, great! diferent tastes for different people. But don´t try to look too much into names and fluff lest you be surprised.

M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In an additional note to myself, how did I managed to miss Kusanagi in my last infinity shopping spree?!?!?

M.

Alpharius wrote:I'd think you'd be better served e-mailing or writing CB directly. I'm pretty sure that they aren't checking this thread on a regular basis.

Posting a plethora of "Nice!" or "Cool, I'm buying four!" comments are equally as pointless so why allow one and not the other?

In that case news posts should be strictly news, topics should be posted and locked immediately so they can only be read. Makes no sense to allow only positive comments and shout down everyone else with a different opinion.

Delephont wrote:I'm not being rude, but there really is nothing more to be said on the matter....and I'm still not sure why you bothered to post this particular opinion here....kinda like me walking (voluntarily) into a biker bar, just to explain how much I hate bikes and bikers.

Actually I'd say it's more like posting in a topic about bikes, with a less-than-positive opinion about the aesthetic design choices of some bike manufacturers. Could it be considered "trolling"? Yeah, but then again some people define "trolling" as "an opinion I don't agree with", so...for all I care, you're trolling by telling me not to post in a thread about the topic I want to talk about.

Oh look prostitutes in our games!

I think you're deliberately missing the point. It has nothing to do with the names and more to do with the models themselves. The words may have similar meanings but you'd have to be blind to argue that it's the exact same thing. One is a big ugly monster and the other is clearly intended to be titillating, though less-so than some of their other designs...

I actually do like Infinity models but whenever I get around to collecting them I'll be avoiding the miniature anime catgirls, personally. The hassassin model is awesome in particular and probably one of the first I'll buy when I get around to it (I suppose I could have this weekend but I bought into Battletech instead).

Sidstyler wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I'd think you'd be better served e-mailing or writing CB directly. I'm pretty sure that they aren't checking this thread on a regular basis.

Posting a plethora of "Nice!" or "Cool, I'm buying four!" comments are equally as pointless so why allow one and not the other?

In that case news posts should be strictly news, topics should be posted and locked immediately so they can only be read. Makes no sense to allow only positive comments and shout down everyone else with a different opinion.

Selective quoting alert!

I was responding to THIS quote:

Fetterkey wrote:Personally, I give feedback so that companies have a better idea of what their potential customers want. Therefore I consider it important to post both positive and negative critiques of things. I for one consider this element of the Infinity æsthetic/design a problem, because I find it silly and embarrassing and wouldn't want to own any model with such a pose. On the other hand, Morathi's Darkest Sin just posted pictures of several other female Infinity models. While some of those do fall into to the oversexualized category I mentioned earlier, with exposed midriffs and the like (one is even called an odalisque, for heaven's sake!), others strike me as much better, while also clear examples of the Infinity æsthetic. The "Avicenna" model, for instance-- while clearly stylized-- strikes me as particularly impressive.

Overall, I think that while the sexualized poses might be part of the Infinity æsthetic, they aren't an essential element of it, and I just want to register that I for one am much more likely to buy models without such poses than models with them.

I realize that, I read that post already and just assumed that's what you were responding to.

So there's a good chance the company doesn't read the forum on a regular basis...which means he should just refrain from posting anything negative at all. Meanwhile people are allowed to post all the positive comments they want and really gush over everything Infinity puts out even though they likely aren't reading that, either?

And you're assuming that he doesn't tell Infinity that directly, why can't he tell them that through a letter or the Infinity forum...and post it on Dakka in a thread where it's appropriate? Admittedly that's a bit of an assumption and a stretch but I really don't understand why it is we apparently can't criticize Infinity, the holiest of miniature manufacturers apparently considering the number of people who came to their defense for one damn comment that wasn't blind praise.

Sidstyler wrote:I realize that, I read that post already and just assumed that's what you were responding to.

So there's a good chance the company doesn't read the forum on a regular basis...which means he should just refrain from posting anything negative at all. Meanwhile people are allowed to post all the positive comments they want and really gush over everything Infinity puts out even though they likely aren't reading that, either?

And you're assuming that he doesn't tell Infinity that directly, why can't he tell them that through a letter or the Infinity forum...and post it on Dakka in a thread where it's appropriate?

Are you assuming that he does?

The point I was making is that if he's really that concerned, he'd be better served by either posting on the 'official' Infinity Forums and/or emailig them directly.

That stands a greater chance of being noticed, recorded and considered than by posting here.

I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone from CB posting here in an 'official capacity'.

The slightly outlandish, catgirl-esque aesthetic is a staple of the Manga/anime design. Obviously not all 'Manga', but it's part of the design book that Corvus Belli have been influenced by and based Infinity on.

I think fortunately there are enough of either variety of female sculpt, so you have the option to either choose that type of model or not. Of course the guy is entitled to his opinion, news thread or not this is a forum for discussing miniatures, and he shouldn't bit shot down for it. Let's not drag the negativity from the other parts of the forum here guys

Well the same could go for any negative comment for any company then. PP doesn't post here, GW doesn't post here, they likely will never know or really care if we say "This model looks like gak", or "Price increases are bs", etc.

I understand the point you're making and I agree. What I'm saying though is that by the same token you should be discouraging positive comments, because it's the same damn thing. The company won't be seeing your comments and won't really give a damn if you're going to buy one, or four, or even any at all, or that you just like the pose/sculpt/etc. but don't play the army, all they really care about is that there's cash coming in. Do you see what I mean?

It just feels like Fetterkey (or me since I partially agreed with him) are being shouted down for finding something to critique, and probably one of the only things with Infinity models that I've seen so far. Maybe you lot like the nonsensical "sexy pose" models, personally I think it doesn't make any fething sense on a battlefield. I see people bitch all the time about helmetless Space Marines not making sense...why the feth would a chick in armor EVER strike this pose?!



Maybe the armor forces her hips to sway? :\ I mean at least she's got a cool outfit, but I just don't get what she's doing here.

This one's even worse!



She's supposedly hacking something and not even looking at what she's doing? And it's not like she's looking away to aim the gun at something either, because she's just kinda staring at the ground somewhere, so...what the feth? And of course, exposed midriff, because as we all know full well this is how all female soldiers and women in general dress. Even in freezing weather, in a desert, or on the field of battle fighting aliens or robots, we have to let that tummy show or else all that working out and watching our calorie intake would be for nothing! But seriously though, this model would have been so much better if they would just turn her damn head to look at the holographic screen she's playing with.

Pacific wrote: I think fortunately there are enough of either variety of female sculpt, so you have the option to either choose that type of model or not. Of course the guy is entitled to his opinion, news thread or not this is a forum for discussing miniatures, and he shouldn't bit shot down for it. Let's not drag the negativity from the other parts of the forum here guys

Yes, I realize that and I appreciate that there are variant models so I can assemble a force that pleases me. And thanks, that's exactly what I'm trying to say, this is a forum meant for discussion and I don't think it's appropriate to tell someone they can't discuss something because they're in the minority.

Bit of a nit-pick but PP do post here, at the least in a semi-official manner:

Alendrel wrote:Hi, I'm PPS_Alex. While I've been posting to Dakka purely as a private gamer, albeit one armed with professional knowledge, I do want to address what's been brought up here in my "company voice"....

From the PP sale thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/240/370955.page#2910369

And for what its worth, I suspect GW / PP and others do browse the forums - they might not post but that's probably to avoid stirring up a hornet's nest (think how many PMs alone that an 'official' GW Dakka member would get). I would think they definitely do check in from time to time - its free market research at the very least and a fairly good barometer of their customer's feelings - even if they don't necessarily pay attention.

Can we just please stick with the topic? You guys sometimes analyze just way to much

And the topic is Infinity miniatures and I strongly believe everybody is entitled to say pretty much anything about them, the good the bad and the ugly.

On my previous attempt to make a bit of fun of infinity has a "problem" idea I really didn't see much more options to reply to the point of someone stating Infinity has a problem and its problem was not only but also their main artistic choice to follow anime codes... I mean its like I say donuts have a problem because they have hole in it or Dragon ball has problem because its anime There's no way you can answer to that but the fella is totally free to post it if he feels like it... And like it or not this is the thread to talk about it!

THere is no such thing as closed clubs were you can only say good things about Infinity, It doesn't happen here and guess what It doesn't happen on Official infinity forums they are quite open to comments, so please lets drop it.


I like anime, like sci fi and like 28mm sculptures so for me Infinity just hit the target in the head.

NAVARRO wrote:

And the topic is Infinity miniatures and I strongly believe everybody is entitled to say pretty much anything about them, the good the bad and the ugly.

Yup, pretty much!

The only point I was (unsuccessfully) trying to make was that if something about them has gotten you torqued up, your best bet to effect any change is to talk to the manufacturer directly.

At no point in time did I say "negative comments not allowed".

However, thinking that CB is going to move away from the established design and theme, especially when those particular models are amongst their best sellers... well...

@Sid - You do realize this game is based off manga and anime right? Have you never seen a singe anime before? Half the time the battle is just as much about "looking cool" as it is about being effective lol.

Why are the girls dressed sexy and sometimes striking a pose? Because they can, and fans of the style love them for it.

Couldn't agree more. Some of the models take it too far for me, but I won't bash the whole line for it. The Daktari, for one, is a figure that I will probably proxy, as I feel the official one wouldn't fit in with the rest of my force. The custodier, on the other hand, is brilliant and will almost certainly be finding a place in my collection.

The Djan could be walking along and Hacking at the same time and the reason her head is turned.... maybe someone behind her said something to her, or she heard a noise and is mid-turn to look.....

The Rev, looks like she just has all her weight on one leg like she's about to throw something on the ground.....

No idea, I pretty much dig everything CB does.

Also, it appears that in the Infinity universe there are cameras everywhere. I believe in the core rulebook it says something about satellites that can target the dandruff on your head.

So maybe the more "cheeky" combantants will toss an occasional pose for the cameras. Not inconceivable considering the universe/setting/environment.

BlueDagger wrote:@Sid - You do realize this game is based off manga and anime right? Have you never seen a singe anime before? Half the time the battle is just as much about "looking cool" as it is about being effective lol.

Why are the girls dressed sexy and sometimes striking a pose? Because they can, and fans of the style love them for it.

Without trying to claim that people can't complain, there is a certain question as to what you want to come of your complaint: if you're complaining just because you like to complain, well, there isn't much discussion to be had. On the other hand, noting a flaw perhaps will allow people to make suggestions as to how to fix it on the consumer side, or re-iterate where there is an-unintentional failure so the company can address it.

Put another way: to complain about the "sexy" quality of an Infinity miniature is qualitatively different then, say, a complaint about how GW's Space Marine figures are sculpted as if by people without even the vaguest grasp of how human anatomy works. Why?

-Infinity models are supposed to be sexy.

-Space Marines are (presumably) not supposed to be wildly out of scale with each other (and the companion ranges) nor have Popeye anatomy.

Seriously, read the article from Gutier Lusquiños I posted earlier;

After few attempts, Carlos Torres made an animalistic design, an option used before in some Nomad female troops, as the Daktari, but now it was boosted to the extreme. Those previous designs have human faces with just some animal features such as ears and tail. Now, the challenge was to design a human-animal face that keeps the characteristic attractiveness of the Infinity girls. This ended up as the “Winter Vixen” the version you can see in Concept File-2. Its name comes from the main inspiration for this design, which was the arctic fox.
...
Our other concept designer, Alberto Abal, was in charge of the Chimera’s Viral CC weapon. With this, we want to delve into the idea of an urban fighter, going beyond typical close combat weapons such as knives, swords or axes. We needed a weapon that fitted the “weird” concept of the Chimera, but would also help find a sexy pose for her. So, the final proposal was not a mere sword, but a high-tech bladed chain you can see in the Concept File-2.
...
The pose for the Chimera was suggested to the sculptor by the concept designers, as they know the style of the sexy Infinity girls. However, for the Pupniks, Pedro was totally free to decide which pose to give them, as we all know he has a special talent to sculpt beast men.

The article as a whole has more and is quite valuable to read for an insight into what goes into the design of Infinity miniatures, but I wanted to highlight the above to make it clear: CB wants some sexiness in their minis. Moreover, they do it damn well, a tribute to the quality of their sculptors, who are able to use subtlety to put a hint of sexiness into the Reverend Custodiers. Consider that this is a figure in a completely covering armored bodysuit, wearing rugged boots, a tunic over the bodysuit, armor over the tunic, a fully enclosed face mask and a long, billowing hooded cloak over the lot, that's some sculpting chops!

I suppose I could be snarky and point out that GW's idea of sexy-but-formidable-woman can be summed up in two words (and they are assless chaps), but that misses the point: GW's aesthetic (such as it is) isn't intended to include any elements of sexuality. Which makes it somewhat ironic how comical their attempts turnout when they attempt to inject sexuality and femininity, given that in the grimdark setting GW uses, women are waifs and men are (barely) apes.

Something else to consider: as Infinity is a more true-scale game, they run the risk, when they produce an armored or uniformed figure, that you won't be able to distinguish between men and woman; it is for this reason that the "sexiness", or perhaps better, femininity, needs to be injected. When man and woman are both athletic and proportioned like normal humans, little things like hair and posture become very important,


This puts even more onus on the sculptor when the figures are masked,


There are 2 female ninjas and 2 male ninjas in that picture; it is to the immense credit of CB's sculptors who are able to pull that off while keeping all of them completely covered in their characteristic gear. As an aside, also note how the exquisitely done musculature on the Oniwaban, along with his hakama influenced pants, serve to visually distinguish but also elevate him above the other male ninja, all without breaking the common aesthetic.

So, to make that a bit more comprehensible:
1) CB uses a bit of femininity beyond perhaps what is "realistic", ironically to make the whole setting more realistic, since this allows them to sculpt realistic figures without exaggerated sexual dimorphism.
2) They like it, it helps to define their brand: realistically proportioned but recognizably female minis with futuristic anime-influenced styling.

So, to sorta get back to my original point (too late!); a complaint about the "sexy Infinity girls" isn't, per se, illegitimate, but it is a complain about a very intentional and integral part of Infinity's aesthetic. It's like complaining about the huge guns and heavy armor prevalent in 40k. It also, as BobbaFett so ably pointed out, is being directed against what CB an element of their line that is most commercially, beyond aesthetically, successful.

Sidstyler wrote:Well the same could go for any negative comment for any company then. PP doesn't post here, GW doesn't post here, they likely will never know or really care if we say "This model looks like gak", or "Price increases are bs", etc.

I understand the point you're making and I agree. What I'm saying though is that by the same token you should be discouraging positive comments, because it's the same damn thing. The company won't be seeing your comments and won't really give a damn if you're going to buy one, or four, or even any at all, or that you just like the pose/sculpt/etc. but don't play the army, all they really care about is that there's cash coming in. Do you see what I mean?

It just feels like Fetterkey (or me since I partially agreed with him) are being shouted down for finding something to critique, and probably one of the only things with Infinity models that I've seen so far. Maybe you lot like the nonsensical "sexy pose" models, personally I think it doesn't make any fething sense on a battlefield. I see people bitch all the time about helmetless Space Marines not making sense...why the feth would a chick in armor EVER strike this pose?!



Maybe the armor forces her hips to sway? :\ I mean at least she's got a cool outfit, but I just don't get what she's doing here.

Yes, I realize that and I appreciate that there are variant models so I can assemble a force that pleases me. And thanks, that's exactly what I'm trying to say, this is a forum meant for discussion and I don't think it's appropriate to tell someone they can't discuss something because they're in the minority.

First of all, it was mainly me who blew everything out of proportion and got heated about the negative comments. I've already put my hands up for the crime, and apologise. I had my reasons, which to me, at the time, seemed justified....however, I realise that being an ass is rarely sound justification!

Regarding the pose of the figure. It's interesting, because I see a female character counter-balancing the weight of her rifle and extracting a "data plug" which is neatly stowed in her sleeve ready to engage in some cyber combat. The way her body is posed tells me (personally) a story, perhaps she has a team covering her back while she prepares to enter the data net, she appears confident and un-hurried by events that are happening around her.....it's a wonderful sculpt.

Now, that's just what I see, I realise that you may see something different or nothing at all. At the end of the day, it's "art" and it's open to interpretation.....

Interestingly enough, maybe this is why so many companies opt for more static poses, they are less open to interpretation and negative critique. However, this is what Corvus Belli is all about, they seem to shun the obvious and treat us fans as if we have imaginations. Now I'm not saying that just because you can't see the same thing as me in this pose, that you lack imagination, but it may simply suggest that you are not on the same wave-length as Corvus Belli.

I'm not sure how much difference it will make, but the pic of the Reverend Custodier is about 3.5 times the height of the model in reality.

BlueDagger wrote:@Sid - You do realize this game is based off manga and anime right? Have you never seen a singe anime before? Half the time the battle is just as much about "looking cool" as it is about being effective lol.

Why are the girls dressed sexy and sometimes striking a pose? Because they can, and fans of the style love them for it.

Right, and as we know from Ghost in the Shell, women must always take off their clothes to activate invisibility cloaks, while male characters can remain fully clothed

That's an interesting point about the scale. The unbelievable paint job on those minis make them look a lot larger than they actually are.

You only fully realize the talent used on these miniatures and how good these sculpts are when you open the blister and see how intricate the detail and proportions are... believe me guys you will never look at other miniatures with the same eyes ever again. Infinity is today setting the standart as much as rackham did for fantasy all those years ago.

Delephont wrote:Ok, so you consider it a problem.....what do you expect Corvus Belli to do about it? I really think you reaction to their miniatures is a minority opinion, and while it's a corner of the market that they may never sell to, I think they can live with that. However, my point still stands, you find it "silly" and "embarrassing"....well, fine, thank you for your opinion, it's logged, now please walk away.....I'm not being rude, but there really is nothing more to be said on the matter....and I'm still not sure why you bothered to post this particular opinion here....kinda like me walking (voluntarily) into a biker bar, just to explain how much I hate bikes and bikers.

Some would call it trolling, but we're more enlightened than that I'm sure

I posted here because I'm discussing what I think of the new Infinity releases in the thread dedicated to new Infinity releases. Also, my point isn't "your æsthetic is stupid and you should feel bad," it's:

Fetterkey wrote:Overall, I think that while the sexualized poses might be part of the Infinity æsthetic, they aren't an essential element of it, and I just want to register that I for one am much more likely to buy models without such poses than models with them.

Note further that rather than merely coming in to the Infinity thread to insult Infinity, I highlighted some models that I thought they had done a particularly good job on and explained why those fit my tastes and preferences better than some of the other figures that they've been releasing lately.

NAVARRO wrote:Of course Infinity range has a problem! The minatures are so freaking amazing that they are making people spend huge amounts of money just to get some of the best miniatures ever sculpted. Its a HUGE problem because they are growing very fast and producing tons of minis and people are buying it more and more...
You guys read it first here, Infinity is taking over your Hobby and they will not rest until you take the jump and paint one of their minis... once you do that your doomed... Someone should stop such "ridiculous" line, its not even funny.

I hope Infinity does indeed grow to become substantially more popular; that's why I'm posting my thoughts as to how they might better attract my custom, as well as that of others I've talked to. In my eyes, having more companies and games in the market is almost always a good thing.

Oddly enough, while their minis are usually perfect IMHO, I find the proportions in the Asura mini a bit weird.



It seems to me that her back is too short and her legs too long, so her hip looks like it's too "high". In the frontview looks ok, but in the rear view it would look better being a bit lower.

And the Reverend is, IMHO again, perfect.

Agreed, though it may simply be a bad picture.

In the rear view image, he back is sloping away from the lens, this gives the impression that the proportions are out, if you look carefully at the "side" angle shot, you can see the length of her torso is clearly correct.

New INFINITY rules tutorial video: Smoke Grenade

Thank you, BobbaFett!

Can't watch the video from work - does it address the FAQ for throwing a smoke grenade to block shots during the model's own activation?

MikeMcSomething wrote:Can't watch the video from work - does it address the FAQ for throwing a smoke grenade to block shots during the model's own activation?

Yes it does, I think it shows 3 examples for your turn and a fourth one for AROs. Nice video.

I have just found this in the Infinity Facebook page.

The FAQ has been corrected. This video is the Official response from CB to all doubts about the use of Smoke Grenades.

It looks like the FAQ stated a different answer to the manouver and now CB releases a video showing multiple examples to make sure everyone, in any language, plays correctly.

Nice video and very helpful, thanks for that!

Oh wow. I'm loving these videos. I didn't realize that your opponent can hit you unimpeded on an ARO if you fail to throw a grenade properly as the first part of your activation.

BlueDagger wrote:@Sid - You do realize this game is based off manga and anime right? Have you never seen a singe anime before? Half the time the battle is just as much about "looking cool" as it is about being effective lol.

...I own Akira, and other than what I got to see on Toonami after school...that's about it. (On that note does anyone remember Big O? That show was cool.)

So I can't say I'm exactly an expert.

TalonZahn wrote:So maybe the more "cheeky" combantants will toss an occasional pose for the cameras. Not inconceivable considering the universe/setting/environment.

lol, okay now that I could see.

You guys make good points. And it's not that I'm entirely opposed to the idea of "sexy" models or anything, it's just that I'd really like to see more of this:



But it seems Infinity has models that appeal to both of us types, so it should be easy enough for me to avoid stuff like the daktaris and get the more "serious" models like the one above. I swear I'm going to end up buying that model before I even get a rulebook, lol.

Another thing, I'm kind of confused by some of the character models, like Jeanne D'arc, Achilles, etc. What exactly are they supposed to be? Are they recreations of their respective characters from history grown in labs and essentially resurrected to fight wars in the future, or...I dunno, what's up with that?