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 War Kitten wrote:
I also have an opponent horror story. So at my LGS I knew this one kid who played Salamanders. Now the kid himself was a nice person, but I swear some of the stuff he did in games was utterly infuriating. So to begin he asks me if I'm fine with him proxying some stuff. I tell him no problem, I proxy weapons as other weapons and models as other models all the time. So then he brings out little circles of cardboard and begins arranging them into squads. He didn't even bring models. Just pieces of cardboard. The second thing he did that irritated me was how he deployed said models. Now my LGS has come custom terrain in the form of tall ruined buildings (some of these buildings had 6+ floors to them), and one of the house rules at the LGS was that you couldn't deploy above the third floor on the building unless you received permission from your opponent (the buildings had been donated a long time ago before the rule was implemented). So the kid deploys his cardboard thunderfire cannons on top of the buildings, so that I can't even tell if any of my units have line of sight to them, while he's claiming that they can see everything from their position on top of the building. I haven't really played the kid in Warhammer since then, although I do still see him around from time to time in the store.

I can understand if he was playing Tyranids with a lot of termagants. Especially if there was multiple Tervigons spouting forth a ton of gaunts per turn. Other than that I can't see a feasible reason to use mass stand-ins.

Ketara wrote:
Not going to lie, if someone set up a bunch of cardboard tokens as 'proxies', I'd laugh, ask him if he was serious, then ask again with a sense of disbelief, and then refuse to play. Because a game that works so much around line of sign is impossible with cardboard tokens.

Not gonna lie, I think that's as much laid at 40K's feet than at cardboard counters.

Grimtuff wrote:Had a guy with some Black Templars in a GW I used to go into had a Predator that looked liked he'd sneezed over it...

I really hope it was glue.

Heh. I know that feeling. It's made me flamin' wary of second-hand from ebay, too.

 conker249 wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:
I also have an opponent horror story. So at my LGS I knew this one kid who played Salamanders. Now the kid himself was a nice person, but I swear some of the stuff he did in games was utterly infuriating. So to begin he asks me if I'm fine with him proxying some stuff. I tell him no problem, I proxy weapons as other weapons and models as other models all the time. So then he brings out little circles of cardboard and begins arranging them into squads. He didn't even bring models. Just pieces of cardboard. The second thing he did that irritated me was how he deployed said models. Now my LGS has come custom terrain in the form of tall ruined buildings (some of these buildings had 6+ floors to them), and one of the house rules at the LGS was that you couldn't deploy above the third floor on the building unless you received permission from your opponent (the buildings had been donated a long time ago before the rule was implemented). So the kid deploys his cardboard thunderfire cannons on top of the buildings, so that I can't even tell if any of my units have line of sight to them, while he's claiming that they can see everything from their position on top of the building. I haven't really played the kid in Warhammer since then, although I do still see him around from time to time in the store.

I can understand if he was playing Tyranids with a lot of termagants. Especially if there was multiple Tervigons spouting forth a ton of gaunts per turn. Other than that I can't see a feasible reason to use mass stand-ins.

I would also be fine with if it he played a horde army. But he played Salamanders, so to me there's not much of an excuse. It wasn't even like he wanted to try out a new unit, he just never brings models to his games.

This happened to me when I was younger and first going to the store, so have that in mind as I didn't want to create any drama since the guy had been going to the store for a while now (I later found out he wasn't very well liked anyway). So the store I was going to had a 1500/1850 point tournament (I can't remember exactly what) for 40k. So my first game I was playing against a nurgle daemon list, the dude rolls up and starts putting models down and almost half of his army was just blank bases. He also never measured anything and just eyeballed it saying he "was a carpenter and was good at not measuring things but getting the right distance", suffice to say I lost the game (mainly to me being new and him cheating). So I eventually told the manager of the store and he talked to the guy and I believe kicked him out of the tournament or told him he wouldn't win the whole thing even if he did.

 War Kitten wrote:

I would also be fine with if it he played a horde army. But he played Salamanders, so to me there's not much of an excuse. It wasn't even like he wanted to try out a new unit, he just never brings models to his games.

With salamanders I would have been tempted to buy the kid a bag of green plastic army men from the cornershop for a couple of quid. IIRC they normally come with an artillery piece too that would make a passable thunderfire cannon and they come prepainted in salamander colours .

 Compel wrote:
That's how I found out about Games Workshop when I was 12. I walked into GW Glasgow: Queens Street and asked about what computer games they were selling.

That's where I started! You're showing your age, saying it was on Queen Street. In some ways, my games club is the spiritual descendant of the one that used to meet in the basement (!) there on Saturdays.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Some of the Warmachine games I see make me want to use wooden dowels with "warjack" written on them; I mean, given the scope of the setting, there's something ... [sad about seeing people play on a black board with bits of paper representing terrain features. :(

Given the amount of terrain at our club, it's even a little insulting.

 Ustrello wrote:
This happened to me when I was younger and first going to the store, so have that in mind as I didn't want to create any drama since the guy had been going to the store for a while now (I later found out he wasn't very well liked anyway). So the store I was going to had a 1500/1850 point tournament (I can't remember exactly what) for 40k. So my first game I was playing against a nurgle daemon list, the dude rolls up and starts putting models down and almost half of his army was just blank bases. He also never measured anything and just eyeballed it saying he "was a carpenter and was good at not measuring things but getting the right distance", suffice to say I lost the game (mainly to me being new and him cheating). So I eventually told the manager of the store and he talked to the guy and I believe kicked him out of the tournament or told him he wouldn't win the whole thing even if he did.

Similar story, makes my blood boil.
My mate came back to play 40k after a hiatus and got paired against a dude with D'eldar, shortly after their new codex came out.
The guy had unpainted venom spam. There were no infantry models. He said that he had paid for the infantry but they would never disembark.
If a venom was ever wrecked, he would write them off as casualties.

He wanted to win games of 40k, not actually play 40k.

Needless to say, my friend lost the match, and I don't think he's been back in store since. We're looking at running Killteam games with a close circle in our homes.

My FLGS nightmare comes from going to an FLGS acution and having to spend over an hour sitting behind someone whose crack was completely exposed. There wasn't anywhere else to sit and I kept racking my brain but couldn't think of a polite way to let him know that his butt was on display for all to see. If it happened now, I'd probably slip him a note or find some way to let him know.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

Some of the Warmachine games I see make me want to use wooden dowels with "warjack" written on them; I mean, given the scope of the setting, there's something ... [sad about seeing people play on a black board with bits of paper representing terrain features. :(

Given the amount of terrain at our club, it's even a little insulting.

I've not seen dowels or tokens used as minis in warmachine but I've noticed the 2d terrain thing (usually plaincardboard or felt around here) around as well. I asked my buddy who used to play Warmachine and he tells me that the game is so sensitive to ranges and angles that many warmachine players actually prefer this kind of terrain!

Unfortunately I think it's just a logical progression. Easily 80-90% of the Warmachine models at that FLGS (otherwise a great store) were unpainted anyway. I guess if your minis are unpainted there's no reason to worry about nice looking terrain either.

I stopped going to the FLGS due to the overall smell that seemed to permeate the carpet/furniture and the condition of the bathroom. Seriously, if you let pee stand on non-ceramic tile long enough, I've learned that it peels up off of the floor. Disgusting.

It seems that Warmachine is becoming less of a game. Sad to hear that actually.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
It seems that Warmachine is becoming less of a game. Sad to hear that actually.

at the LVO they had this really REALLY cool convergence board.......the terrain with this 2d felt cutout......made me sad.
ME and some other attendees said this "Their argument is that its a good tactical game, well so is chess, if you dont want to participate in some form of hobby, dont play a game"
Warmachine is such a GREAT game. cool models, fun fluff, but the community seems to have ruined it.

The guy had unpainted venom spam. There were no infantry models. He said that he had paid for the infantry but they would never disembark.
If a venom was ever wrecked, he would write them off as casualties.

Friggin' hell, thats almost brilliant in its strangeness.

Eilif wrote:My FLGS nightmare comes from going to an FLGS acution and having to spend over an hour sitting behind someone whose crack was completely exposed... If it happened now, I'd probably slip him a note...

snort guffaw

agnosto wrote:I stopped going to the FLGS due to the overall smell that seemed to permeate the carpet/furniture and the condition of the bathroom. Seriously, if you let pee stand on non-ceramic tile long enough, I've learned that it peels up off of the floor. Disgusting.

Ah, the toilet in the FLGS I recently visited. Wasn't quite bad enough to put me off. I just gotta remember to hold my foot against the door when I go back...

OK, not a games shop, but I've been in the gents' in a pub that was so horrible I decided to pee in the alley outside instead.

I live in the Midwest of the US, Iowa in specific. I have about 5 stores around me, but they are all 70-90 miles away. When the wife and I go into the city I use it as an opportunity to pick up GW supplies.

My wife has a bladder the size of a peanut, which was complicated by her being 8 months pregnant at the time. I rolled up to the FLGS, got out, and told her the bathroom was in the back. About 30 seconds later she was standing beside me, asking me to please hurry.
I guess that a single-toilet, unisex bathroom with exposed pipes, peeling wallpaper, and a Dr. Doom poster that was barely passable for local gaming nerds didn't appeal to her.
Luckily the store moved to another nearby location with 3 times the interior space, and 4 bathrooms all in good condition.

Not necessarily a hygiene issue but I recently had an issue with Discount Games. I preordered a Skitarii getting started bundle and am still waiting more than a month after payment. No communication unless I initiate it about the delay or anything just silence until I inquire via email and then a continued song and dance about supply while other retailers magically have stock and even increase stock during the month I've been waiting. It's not even the $66 really, I don't like being jerked around.

It's funny they offer a 30-day guarantee on E-Bay; I bet those people are getting their produce somehow.

Thank god for PayPal is all I can say. I'll be sure to get my money back.

/end bitter rant

A local FLGS use to give out great discounts, had exclusive models and a second hand bin. I use to go there every chance I got (which, due to it being 2 cities away, I rarely got a chance) and snatched up whatever caught my eye, but I could never play there due to the distance.

One day I came in and rummaged through the second-hand 40k box like I usually do, saw nothing interesting and put it back. As I did so one of the workers (not sure if he's the new manager or not) was right behind me and "kindly" informed me of their new policy:

Anything in the "clearance" or "consignment" section is not available to non-members of the store. The tables are off limits too; they're for members only. The only stuff I'm allowed to buy are the normal, packaged GW stuff and sealed MTG boosters; none of the singles or the binders were available to me as I wasn't a member. He then told me that I could get around this by just signing up for a membership. Then he showed me the "levels" of membership: 60 dollars a month got me the standard 20% discount on Warhammer and Warhammer 40k stuff. 120 (or was it 150, can't remember but it was something pretty ludicrous) got me 30% off and use of the tables. for a whopping 250 something a month, I got all of those "benefits" and also access to the consignment bin.

Oh and I had to spend a minimum of 200 dollars each time to actually get those discounts and benefits. I left the store and never looked back. A few weeks later I saw someone post in the Warhammer facebook group about the store; on top of all those shenanigans they decided that they weren't gonna hand out change anymore; if you paid in cash and didn't have the EXACT change, they instead gave you a gift voucher for the remaining difference.

I'll second the vote for ebay.

About 6 years ago I ordered some figures from ebay. The seller was in California. After 5 weeks of not receiving my items, or answering several emails, I filed a claim with paypal.

The entire "arbitration" period passed with no word from the seller, so I got my refund. The very next day my packaged arrived. (it was however a loyalist predator, not the Chaos Predator I ordered). I open my e-mail to find out the seller was SUPER MAD. He said I should have known service would be slow considering the wildfires that were going on in his area and he couldn't get to his store. (How should I know again?)

He called me a fraud and demanded I either send him the money back or send the item back. I told him that since he sent me the wrong item I'd be happy to return it, if he credited me the cost of return shipping. After no reply for a year afterwards I just assumed he abandoned it and kept it anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
A local FLGS use to give out great discounts, had exclusive models and a second hand bin. I use to go there every chance I got (which, due to it being 2 cities away, I rarely got a chance) and snatched up whatever caught my eye, but I could never play there due to the distance.

One day I came in and rummaged through the second-hand 40k box like I usually do, saw nothing interesting and put it back. As I did so one of the workers (not sure if he's the new manager or not) was right behind me and "kindly" informed me of their new policy:

Anything in the "clearance" or "consignment" section is not available to non-members of the store. The tables are off limits too; they're for members only. The only stuff I'm allowed to buy are the normal, packaged GW stuff and sealed MTG boosters; none of the singles or the binders were available to me as I wasn't a member. He then told me that I could get around this by just signing up for a membership. Then he showed me the "levels" of membership: 60 dollars a month got me the standard 20% discount on Warhammer and Warhammer 40k stuff. 120 (or was it 150, can't remember but it was something pretty ludicrous) got me 30% off and use of the tables. for a whopping 250 something a month, I got all of those "benefits" and also access to the consignment bin.

Oh and I had to spend a minimum of 200 dollars each time to actually get those discounts and benefits. I left the store and never looked back. A few weeks later I saw someone post in the Warhammer facebook group about the store; on top of all those shenanigans they decided that they weren't gonna hand out change anymore; if you paid in cash and didn't have the EXACT change, they instead gave you a gift voucher for the remaining difference.

This store sounds like hell. I used to game at a place that had an OPTIONAL membership. for $20 per year you got a 15% discount on Tuesdays (that was the scheduled 40k gaming night) I could understand a membership, but dang those prices are astronomical.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
A local FLGS use to give out great discounts, had exclusive models and a second hand bin. I use to go there every chance I got (which, due to it being 2 cities away, I rarely got a chance) and snatched up whatever caught my eye, but I could never play there due to the distance.

One day I came in and rummaged through the second-hand 40k box like I usually do, saw nothing interesting and put it back. As I did so one of the workers (not sure if he's the new manager or not) was right behind me and "kindly" informed me of their new policy:

Anything in the "clearance" or "consignment" section is not available to non-members of the store. The tables are off limits too; they're for members only. The only stuff I'm allowed to buy are the normal, packaged GW stuff and sealed MTG boosters; none of the singles or the binders were available to me as I wasn't a member. He then told me that I could get around this by just signing up for a membership. Then he showed me the "levels" of membership: 60 dollars a month got me the standard 20% discount on Warhammer and Warhammer 40k stuff. 120 (or was it 150, can't remember but it was something pretty ludicrous) got me 30% off and use of the tables. for a whopping 250 something a month, I got all of those "benefits" and also access to the consignment bin.

Oh and I had to spend a minimum of 200 dollars each time to actually get those discounts and benefits. I left the store and never looked back. A few weeks later I saw someone post in the Warhammer facebook group about the store; on top of all those shenanigans they decided that they weren't gonna hand out change anymore; if you paid in cash and didn't have the EXACT change, they instead gave you a gift voucher for the remaining difference.

ROFL! So to play at their tables you had to drop $1440 a year at a minimum. Were their tables made out of gold and their terrain hand crafted by the best terrain makers in the world? For that money I'd just buy my own tables, terrain and make my own gaming club.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
A local FLGS use to give out great discounts, had exclusive models and a second hand bin. I use to go there every chance I got (which, due to it being 2 cities away, I rarely got a chance) and snatched up whatever caught my eye, but I could never play there due to the distance.

One day I came in and rummaged through the second-hand 40k box like I usually do, saw nothing interesting and put it back. As I did so one of the workers (not sure if he's the new manager or not) was right behind me and "kindly" informed me of their new policy:

Anything in the "clearance" or "consignment" section is not available to non-members of the store. The tables are off limits too; they're for members only. The only stuff I'm allowed to buy are the normal, packaged GW stuff and sealed MTG boosters; none of the singles or the binders were available to me as I wasn't a member. He then told me that I could get around this by just signing up for a membership. Then he showed me the "levels" of membership: 60 dollars a month got me the standard 20% discount on Warhammer and Warhammer 40k stuff. 120 (or was it 150, can't remember but it was something pretty ludicrous) got me 30% off and use of the tables. for a whopping 250 something a month, I got all of those "benefits" and also access to the consignment bin.

Oh and I had to spend a minimum of 200 dollars each time to actually get those discounts and benefits. I left the store and never looked back. A few weeks later I saw someone post in the Warhammer facebook group about the store; on top of all those shenanigans they decided that they weren't gonna hand out change anymore; if you paid in cash and didn't have the EXACT change, they instead gave you a gift voucher for the remaining difference.

I cannot believe a word of this unless you provide the name and location of this store. Half of this sounds utterly ridiculous, and the other half sounds illegal. Not giving people back change but a gift voucher? The first time a store attempted this, I'd be on the phone with the local police department

I'd cancel my purchase there and then and walk out of the store if they refused to give change. That's gotta be illegal.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'd cancel my purchase there and then and walk out of the store if they refused to give change. That's gotta be illegal.

Not if they run it as a members only store. Much like how a lot of bars around here get away with allowing smoking and selling beer after normal hours by being 'members only' bars.

 gunslingerpro wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'd cancel my purchase there and then and walk out of the store if they refused to give change. That's gotta be illegal.

Not if they run it as a members only store. Much like how a lot of bars around here get away with allowing smoking and selling beer after normal hours by being 'members only' bars.

Possibly, but even someone with half a brain would have to understand the sheer stupidity of that type of business plan for a game store. Even if you could find enough suckers to think this might be a good idea, any 5th grader with basic math skills would quickly realize that the amount you'd need to spend per month just to "earn" your 20% discount is actually $300, not $60.

Running your game store like this:



Is not a recipe for success. Sure, you can pay full price and I've heard of stores that have memberships for discount clubs but nothing that asinine and not letting you buy from the clearance bin is just rampant stupidity. "Well, I could make a sale and make money or I can turn this random shopper away and make nothing.....hmmmmmm.....I'll go with nothing."

When you have a paywall as imposing as described, you need some sort of incentives to get people to join.

But I agree that the whole concept reeks of failure at that scale.

I can totally understand discount clubs, or paying to use tables, etc. But it has to be at a tempting price point. Plenty of other places willing to take my hobby dollar.

Seriously, unless the sales people were all attractive porn stars working naked, I fail to see how this could possibly work as a business plan!

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Seriously, unless the sales people were all attractive porn stars working naked, I fail to see how this could possibly work as a business plan!

That's the best business plan I've heard yet. Everyone keep an eye on Kickstarter this year.

Well, keep in mind that the poster was Canadian, so those dollar figures are really in Canadian pesos. I kid, I kid...especially since at the time it could have been when there was more parity.

While those "incentives" seem exorbitant at those prices even with possible exchange rates, it also kind of depends on the market. If they're the only store to reliably stock some things and they're better maintained than any competition (or indeed, have no competition), then it might be viable. Outside of highly bizarre market circumstances though, I can't imagine how that would work out well in the long-term as it leaves a place for a competitor to come in and gain market share.

Man... I also have trouble believing some of that story... Up until that point, my only experience with stores having a "club" atmosphere or discount, it only asked you to put your name on a ledger, like the facebook page, and make a purchase once a year (The discount was doubled I think for buying something the day you signed up, and proved you liked the facebook page, like almost half off).

I mean, obviously I've heard some stories here on Dakka about paying memberships and whatnot, but not much actual experience myself.

 agnosto wrote:
Not necessarily a hygiene issue but I recently had an issue with Discount Games. I preordered a Skitarii getting started bundle and am still waiting more than a month after payment. No communication unless I initiate it about the delay or anything just silence until I inquire via email and then a continued song and dance about supply while other retailers magically have stock and even increase stock during the month I've been waiting. It's not even the $66 really, I don't like being jerked around.

It's funny they offer a 30-day guarantee on E-Bay; I bet those people are getting their produce somehow.

Thank god for PayPal is all I can say. I'll be sure to get my money back.

/end bitter rant

Literally same exact thing just happened to me dude. Ordered the Skitarii getting started set from them over almost six weeks ago. Contact them via email they gladly refunded the purchase. They offer a good discount, but are extremely slow sometimes!