Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I mentioned done to death becuase this topic has probably been talked about a whole lot

Anyways I, like many other gamers, would love to see some new ascetics into warhammer especially in the form of a new army (although rumors pretty much point to no unless warhammer forge). But every time I try to envision a new faction it usually ends up as some crossbreed out of all the other existing factions, especially human factions. Chaos Dwarves and Kislev are somewhat the exception except CD are being made for Warhammer Forge and kislev was never a full army and light cavalry without massive tweaking just doesnt seem too viable. But there are other obvious factions namely Araby who even have their own army in warmaster. With them being deserty I imagine a mix of empire and beastmen (ambush, big creatures), is that too redundant?

Is there any conceivable way to make a new faction in warhammer without making it too much like a reskined existing faction?

Well, there's the possibility for summoned creatures, ala 40K CSM. That could work with Djinn, or even be used in a Nippon army referencing Shintoism. Pike troops have yet to be revisited after Dogs of War got retired - though how they'd fit into a game with common four rank fighting is an open question.

And there's probably scope for new spell lists that can make a new faction distinct.

My biggest issue with them making a different faction is balance...

They already cant balance the armies they have, lets not put in another till they do.

ShivanAngel wrote:My biggest issue with them making a different faction is balance...

They already cant balance the armies they have, lets not put in another till they do.

Yea I was also thinking of that. Almost an impossible task though so any new official armies as I somewhat mentioned are probably highly improbable

I would like to see new armies as well, but I think I would prefer them released in a new way. Instead of having current method of 1 civilization 1 army book I would like to see a conglomeration within a single book.

For example, Men of the West. Empire, Tilea, Estalia, Bretonia and Araby. Or maybe East of the Worlds Edge Mountains, which would be Chaos Dwarves, Orges and ???? not sure.

The army lists only take up about 10 pages, so 5 sets of different army lists drawing on similar special rules would not be so hard would it?

5 in most cases would probably be too many.

I would actually say that GW has done a great job ith 8th edition to bring all armies closer together in power level.


Araby and Kislev would be great additions although they could be too like other armies.

Araby would be like living Tomb Kings and Kislev might seem like a cross between Chaos Marauders and Empire. Cavelry could use a big push though and Kislev would be an opprotunity to do it.



Cathey would be different though. lots of Medium infantry, Light and Dark magic(Yin-Yang thing going on) Dragons, other big monsters, Ogre auxilia, Rocket orientated artillery.

There's an unofficial estalia codex around.

It's in Spanish, but can be quite easily understood.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=S592S8ZN

Cirith wrote:I would like to see new armies as well, but I think I would prefer them released in a new way. Instead of having current method of 1 civilization 1 army book I would like to see a conglomeration within a single book.

For example, Men of the West. Empire, Tilea, Estalia, Bretonia and Araby. Or maybe East of the Worlds Edge Mountains, which would be Chaos Dwarves, Orges and ???? not sure.

The army lists only take up about 10 pages, so 5 sets of different army lists drawing on similar special rules would not be so hard would it?

5 in most cases would probably be too many.

That really wouldnt work to well fluff wise...

Empire and Bretonnia tolerate each other, but I wouldnt go as far as to call them friends...

Unless you mean just put them all in the same book, which a lot of people wouldnt like cause they would be paying for stuff they dont want/need.

Yeah, Bretts and Empire are quite often at odds with each other and the 2 armies are vastly different.

now, if GW released a single book that contained the existing 2 Army books into one volume to save space and speed update schedules, that would be cool. maybe rules for the 2 books to be used together as allies.


Don't think it would happen though.

ShivanAngel wrote:My biggest issue with them making a different faction is balance...

They already cant balance the armies they have, lets not put in another till they do.

I'd say the issue they do not want to balance the armies they have. GW found out long ago balance is not what sells, coolness and churn (making exisitng players buy tons of new stuff) is what does. Sure they could balance their armies, but that would make it hard to sell new stuff and that's what keeps GW in business.

On the original question, well again coolness sells. A Cathay, Nippon, Araby or Yind (India) army would look cool and new and would sell. Would anyone be too upset if they were just Empire or High Elfs or whatever with a few tweeks?

GW now has SIX (!!) Space Marine codexes (plus Bad Space Marines) wiht the same basic stats and rules and only minor tinkering. I dare say they could do six or more human kingdoms... if they wanted to.

Just to throw out another idea, how about Warhammer Armies: Conjurers?

Wizards as the leaders who then summon elementals and dragons and other monsters to fight for them? Sort of a Godzilla army but fragile since if the wizards go the army goes.

a Conjurer army would be cool, but it would reek of Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings playstyle and weakness.


I would also see it being heavily reliant on the Magic Phase, meaning that one bad Winds roll could see the army crumble.

Dwarves built to counter magic(and most Dwarf armies have a fair amount of anti-magic) woud just Roflstomp it.



that said, i think the upcoming Storm of Magic expansion will have things similer to that in it.

There's an Araby Army book out there: http://battlereporter.freeforums.org/araby-warhammer-fantasy-battle-army-book-pdf-t2374.html

This should help with game balance.

John
http://www.defiancegames.com/

however, such books are completely unofficial and can't be used in 95% of all competitive enviroments or GW run stores(depending on the manager)

Grey Templar wrote:however, such books are completely unofficial and can't be used in 95% of all competitive enviroments or GW run stores(depending on the manager)

Very true, but if, as I do, you don't play in competitions, nor even live near a GW store (aren't there only 2 in the US now?), they make fine armies. Besides which, most players I know often substitute figures for GW ones as they are sick of the price increases, so they have few if any problems playing (or playing against) unofficial armies. The owner, his manager and the two assistant managers at my FLGS encourage people to tray out new armies and even new figures - such as Perry's War of the Roses plastics as more economical file-ins for GW's overpriced, and cartoonish looking ones. Heck, the owner told me he has seen a massive decline in sales of GW products over the last 3 years, and currently is pushing Dust Tactics (which looks OK as Weird WWII goes), but the stater set is $99, so I will do my own army building for that too.

John
http://www.defiancegames.com/
War is coming to the Stars in 2259 C.E. - Combat: Colonial Suns

I doubt there are only two in the US, as I know of 3-4 in the Houston Area alone

It could be because Ive been playing alot of Shogun 2 lately but I crave a Nippon army.

Im not sure if GW has ever gone into any background for Nippon other then it is basically Japan "although in Japanese from my understanding Nippon is the word for Japan".
I imagine a place very much like 16th Century Japan, Samurai, warring clans but with a Shinto mythological side kind've like Kamigawa in Magic the Gathering. I especially like the idea of the Kami walking around as terribly powerful spirit monsters.
Mix that with an expansionist Imperial Japan and you have a Nippon which has unified itself in a terrible war under the leadership of the Warrior Emperor and is beggining its campaign of conquest. This could also give a chance to add soldiers from Cathay or Kuresh as auxillary troops fighting for the Warrior Emperor.

Highly specialised, combat heavy, high leadership but major morale effects on leadership or elite units fleeing or dying. Kind've like how in 40k the Tau suffer when the Ethereal dies but then they get super ticked off.

Nippon had a list a long, long time ago, even some models.

I think late 80s?

I used to have a photocopy of it.

ShivanAngel wrote:I doubt there are only two in the US, as I know of 3-4 in the Houston Area alone

Official GW owned ones? I was under the impression that they sold most of those a while ago here in the US, but my info may be bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ColdFire wrote:It could be because Ive been playing alot of Shogun 2 lately but I crave a Nippon army.

Im not sure if GW has ever gone into any background for Nippon other then it is basically Japan "although in Japanese from my understanding Nippon is the word for Japan".
I imagine a place very much like 16th Century Japan, Samurai, warring clans but with a Shinto mythological side kind've like Kamigawa in Magic the Gathering. I especially like the idea of the Kami walking around as terribly powerful spirit monsters.
Mix that with an expansionist Imperial Japan and you have a Nippon which has unified itself in a terrible war under the leadership of the Warrior Emperor and is beggining its campaign of conquest. This could also give a chance to add soldiers from Cathay or Kuresh as auxillary troops fighting for the Warrior Emperor.

Highly specialised, combat heavy, high leadership but major morale effects on leadership or elite units fleeing or dying. Kind've like how in 40k the Tau suffer when the Ethereal dies but then they get super ticked off.

Here's there link to the unofficial, but very professional looking, Nippon Army Book: http://www.scribd.com/doc/33025584/Warhammer-Armies-Nippon

ShivanAngel wrote:

Cirith wrote:I would like to see new armies as well, but I think I would prefer them released in a new way. Instead of having current method of 1 civilization 1 army book I would like to see a conglomeration within a single book.

Unless you mean just put them all in the same book, which a lot of people wouldnt like cause they would be paying for stuff they dont want/need.

Yeah, I meant putting them in the same book.

Drop the whole double entries of units and there would be a ton of saved space. I think putting multiple armies into the same book would increase the price by only a little, but increase value by alot. They kinda did it already in the 6th Ed Skaven Book with the optional Clan armies, that was cool....

High/Dark Elves in the same book, and as already mentioned Araby and Tomb Kings.

jjdiffley wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:I doubt there are only two in the US, as I know of 3-4 in the Houston Area alone

Official GW owned ones? I was under the impression that they sold most of those a while ago here in the US, but my info may be bad.

there are 15 GW stores in California, 9 in Texas, 1 in Delaware, 12 in Illinois, 8 in Maryland, 2 in Michigan, 1 in New Jersey( ), 1 in New York(Greenwich Village), 1 in Pennsylvania, 1 in Tennessee, 3 in Virginia, 9 in Washington, and 2 in Wisconson according to the Store Finder on GW's Website.


quite a few, although they seem to cluster where they are found.

Grey Templar wrote:

jjdiffley wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:I doubt there are only two in the US, as I know of 3-4 in the Houston Area alone

Official GW owned ones? I was under the impression that they sold most of those a while ago here in the US, but my info may be bad.

there are 15 GW stores in California, 9 in Texas, 1 in Delaware, 12 in Illinois, 8 in Maryland, 2 in Michigan, 1 in New Jersey( ), 1 in New York(Greenwich Village), 1 in Pennsylvania, 1 in Tennessee, 3 in Virginia, 9 in Washington, and 2 in Wisconson according to the Store Finder on GW's Website.


quite a few, although they seem to cluster where they are found.

Thanks for the info. Luckily I live nowhere near any of them.

jjdiffley wrote:

Here's there link to the unofficial, but very professional looking, Nippon Army Book: http://www.scribd.com/doc/33025584/Warhammer-Armies-Nippon

Cheers for that, was a fun read.
There are some aspects I really liked, some were a little dissapointing "I felt the history was a little long winded" but overall a fun read. I especially liked the look of the Sumo Warriors. Off hand do you know if any of the pictures were done by the writer, some of them I recognised from Age of Empires Asian Dynasties and other works.

ColdFire wrote:

jjdiffley wrote:

Here's there link to the unofficial, but very professional looking, Nippon Army Book: http://www.scribd.com/doc/33025584/Warhammer-Armies-Nippon

Cheers for that, was a fun read.
There are some aspects I really liked, some were a little dissapointing "I felt the history was a little long winded" but overall a fun read. I especially liked the look of the Sumo Warriors. Off hand do you know if any of the pictures were done by the writer, some of them I recognised from Age of Empires Asian Dynasties and other works.

Afraid i know nothing about the people behind these books - I was informed about them here on Dakka Dakka a few weeks ago myself

I'd personally love to see an official expansion of ascetics. I do like the Idea of combined books as well. It'd be cool to see a kingdoms of the east book for example and that could cover nippon, cathay, ind, kuresh and other wonderfully unexplored things from that area.

Nippon did have official models but the most recent stuff they had was from the third edition warhammer armies book as a mercenary contingent. The entry consists of four units: samurai lord mercenary commander, samurai (elite infantry block), ninja assassin, ashigaru (spearman infantry block). However this was back in the day when half goblins, zoat and pygmys were around. It's also interesting to note that then goblins had organ guns and three types of stone thrower and all armies had DnD style alignments.

The idea of having multiple armies in one book is one that gw had before, way back in third ed there was the rule book, the armies book (all of them) and expansion books. I'm guessing some where someone decided more money would be made if the armies were split up so it's unlikely to change.

Other than nippon Cathay is the only eastern kingdom we know anything about and mostly from tiny bits of fluff from the 7th ed book and the ogre book amongst other places.