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Now this happened in one of my battles (battle report here) and it actually happened on 2 separate occassions. Did we play it wrong? Could my mawlocs have just moved out of the way? Thanks.

jy2 wrote:

Sisters surround my mawloc. Rhino then tank shocks it. As I have no where else to go, I have to do a death-or-glory.


Unfortunately, I only manage to rip off its stormbolter before his rhino runs over my mawloc.


His seraphims then surround my other mawloc. Could 2 times be a charm?


Dammit! My death-or-glory to his tank shock only manages to destroy its gun, and then my 2nd mawloc gets trampled once again by his transport.

I don't want to grab my rulebook this second (I will later) but this seems a bit off..........

The tank shock rules simply say "If some enemy models in the enemy unit would end up underneath the vehicle when it reaches it's final position, these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance"

There is nothing to suggest that those models are destroyed in the circumstance described. (unlike disembarking from a vehicle that specifically describes that scenario).

The question is - do you move the mawloc the minimum 1" away from the tank and then move the seraphim 1" away from the mawloc or do you move the mawloc 1" away from the tank whilst leaving the serapahim where they are (i.e. a larger move for the mawloc)?

Scott-S6 wrote:The tank shock rules simply say "If some enemy models in the enemy unit would end up underneath the vehicle when it reaches it's final position, these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance"

There is nothing to suggest that those models are destroyed in the circumstance described. (unlike disembarking from a vehicle that specifically describes that scenario).

The question is - do you move the mawloc the minimum 1" away from the tank and then move the seraphim 1" away from the mawloc or do you move the mawloc 1" away from the tank whilst leaving the serapahim where they are (i.e. a larger move for the mawloc)?

Sounds right, I would think the Seraphim make room for the Mawloc given the size difference.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That or the tank stops 1" from the Mawloc.

I've always thought that when you move the unit out of the way (of a tank shock), you still have to follow the standard rules for movement - namely the rules for Models in the Way (BRB p.11). That is, you cannot move through the space occupied by another model (the surrounding models and the tank-shocking vehicle). Thus, in order to get around the tank, there must be space wide enough for your base to fit through. If not, then you've got no choice but to death-and-glory or die (much like if your tank is wrecked and you cannot disembark because it is surrounded).

But it seems as if this interpretation may be in the minority.

jy2, there are no rules that say you HAVE TO death or glory if you are surrounded and get tank shocked.

Since the Tank Shock rules say: "If some enemy models in the enemy unit would end up underneath the vehicle when it reaches it's final position, these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance"

Then these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance. even if that results in an odd situation where the model ends up behind the tank in the situation above.

jy2 wrote:I've always thought that when you move the unit out of the way (of a tank shock), you still have to follow the standard rules for movement - namely the rules for Models in the Way (BRB p.11). That is, you cannot move through the space occupied by another model (the surrounding models and the tank-shocking vehicle). Thus, in order to get around the tank, there must be space wide enough for your base to fit through. If not, then you've got no choice but to death-and-glory or die (much like if your tank is wrecked and you cannot disembark because it is surrounded).

But it seems as if this interpretation may be in the minority.

That is a common assumption and makes sense, however the Tank Shock movement rules are not a subset of the general movement rules because they allow the tank and target units to intersect each other. Once that happens it isn't possible for the shocked unit to be operating within the normal movement rules. Consequently the special rules given within Tank Shock are in operation. These rules simply say move the shocked unit out of the way. They don't go into any detail about how this is to be done.

The Tank Shock rules give an option for a unit which makes its morale check to do a Death Or Glory attempt. It isn't compulsory.

The Tank Shock rules are badly explained and do not have the diagrams needed.

IdentifyZero wrote:The question is - do you move the mawloc the minimum 1" away from the tank and then move the seraphim 1" away from the mawloc or do you move the mawloc 1" away from the tank whilst leaving the serapahim where they are (i.e. a larger move for the mawloc)?

As above

The mawloc moves behind the tank OR death or Glory. You are not forced into DoG

Thanks for the clarification, guys.

Hypothetically if the board was filled with enough models where there isn't any room to move the mawloc to move out of the way, then what would happen?

Then it would die, or rather should try to DoG!

Highly unlikely tho

divide by zero, the newly formed black hole eats some models, thus room for the the Mawloc,

But really, I would say they would just be forced into assault, and clump everyone together...

SabrX wrote:Hypothetically if the board was filled with enough models where there isn't any room to move the mawloc to move out of the way, then what would happen?

That isn't possible. The shocking tank has to move out of and through a space where there can't be any friendly models. It also has to move at least six inches. There will always be empty space behind the tank, that the shocked unit can move into.

Kilkrazy wrote:

SabrX wrote:Hypothetically if the board was filled with enough models where there isn't any room to move the mawloc to move out of the way, then what would happen?

That isn't possible. The shocking tank has to move out of and through a space where there can't be any friendly models. It also has to move at least six inches. There will always be empty space behind the tank, that the shocked unit can move into.

Tank comes in from reserves and tank shocks the enemy?

If the board is filled with models, where is the vehicle going to find room to come in?

It should be that the trapped unit has to DoG. He cannot move without breaking movement rules, so he stands his ground. DoG isn't compulsory, it is just the last remaining option for the models. They tried to move out of the way and couldn't, so they have to face the metal behemoth rolling down on them.

-cgmckenzie

cgmckenzie wrote:It should be that the trapped unit has to DoG. He cannot move without breaking movement rules, so he stands his ground. DoG isn't compulsory, it is just the last remaining option for the models. They tried to move out of the way and couldn't, so they have to face the metal behemoth rolling down on them.

The equally valid counter claim is that the tank should self-destruct because it has caused an impossible situation to occur. Tank shocking isn't compulsory, so vehicle self-destruction is just the last remaining option for the model. It tried to tank shock, and the rules destroyed it.

solkan wrote:

cgmckenzie wrote:It should be that the trapped unit has to DoG. He cannot move without breaking movement rules, so he stands his ground. DoG isn't compulsory, it is just the last remaining option for the models. They tried to move out of the way and couldn't, so they have to face the metal behemoth rolling down on them.

The equally valid counter claim is that the tank should self-destruct because it has caused an impossible situation to occur. Tank shocking isn't compulsory, so vehicle self-destruction is just the last remaining option for the model. It tried to tank shock, and the rules destroyed it.

lol

Ok, I just reread the rules on tank shock and, if they chose to not do death or glory, they would just end up behind the tank(in the above scenario).

-cgmckenzie

I concur with the above posters -- The shortest possible route is directly behind the tank, since you cannot move through enemy models. Those mawlocs could have stuck around to cause some more carnage.

In a related yet off-topic note, as a tyranid player I feel as though monstrous and gargantuan creatures should be allowed to tank-shock infantry while making a run action. Just a thought.

The Death or Glory-only option seems to make the most sense to me since you can't move through enemy models, but I don't think there is a clear option. If it happened to me though, I'd go with DoG.

Except the tank shock rule explicitly states an exception to normal movement rules in allowing the tank to end movement in a space occupied by enemy models. These models are afforded a special movement that requires they move out of the way by the shortest route possible -- at such point all routes pass through enemy models (the tank that is ending its move on top of them). The tank must have a clear path free of friendly models in a straight line to tank shock in the first place...so that means that no matter what the space behind the tank will be available as an area to place the unit that was tank shocked.


edit - also before arguing for the point that it should be allowed to 'smush' and enemy unit with a 35 point tank, think about how unbalanced that is from a gameplay point of view. Most of these rules conundrums wouldn't exist if it weren't for people trying to find loopholes and 'game the game' instead of playing against the player.

I believe the issue now lies in whether it is "possible" to move through the tank to a safe position beind it. (the word possible has been quoted because it is referencing the rules which states "...These models are afforded a special movement that requires they move out of the way by the shortest route possible.") I feel moving through the tank is just as offensive as moving through the space occupied by other models. i do not yet understand why so many feel that it is less offensive and the right way of playing out this scenario.

As I see it there are no options that adequately serve the purpose of the situation via RAW. Therefore I am going to look a the purpose and imagery being created by the Tank Shock. It is obvious that the tank is threatening to run over and kill the enemy. The enemy is allowed to get out of the way or attempt to stop the tank with a last ditch offense attack, Death or Glory. Since death is an option, I am in favor of squashing the monster.

Seems the monster is getting an unfair advantage by suddenly appearing behind the tank.

Moving through the tank is sometimes the shortest possible route.

this is silly, ane makes me want to sell everything off and walk away from GW.... damn stupid rules

Ah joy, emoragequits over a rule that has been around since 3rd ed.

If you dont want to give the MC an "unfair" advantage, then dont tank shock when that is the only valid route for the mc to take. It isnt rocket science...

nosferatu1001 wrote:Ah joy, emoragequits over a rule that has been around since 3rd ed.

If you dont want to give the MC an "unfair" advantage, then dont tank shock when that is the only valid route for the mc to take. It isnt rocket science...

No, he's done. Enough's enough godamnit!

well, lets look at it this way, and in the next instance its not a mawloc, but a group of light infantry, and they get boxed in by two tanks and a piece of terrain, and then I tankshock them. Reason says they would get pulled under the treads, but instead they escape unscathed... this is just one of the many examples of the issues I have with the mechanics. Its been a ragequit in the making for a while now....