Space Marine Height and Weight?

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**snake**

Looking for some canon info on the height and weight of an "average" unarmored tactical marine, and then the height and weight of an "average" tactical marine in power armour (Mk 7 or 8). Are there any hard and fast citations on these numbers?

**Coolyo294**

I think they're 9-10 feet tall.

**Sabet**

there 7-8 feet tall out of armour. 8-9 in armour, a few 10 i believe.

**Void__Dragon**

It varies, as it does with humans.

On average, outside of the armour marines are 7 feet tall I think, 8 in.

Cannot check any codex for verification at the moment though.

**IvanTih**

Void__Dragon wrote:It varies, as it does with humans.

On average, outside of the armour marines are 7 feet tall I think, 8 in.

Cannot check any codex for verification at the moment though.

The height varies from 7 feet to 9 feet ( based on numerous sources).

**Cheesecat**

snake wrote:Looking for some canon info on the height and weight of an "average" unarmored tactical marine, and then the height and weight of an "average" tactical marine in power armour (Mk 7 or 8). Are there any hard and fast citations on these numbers?

About 7-8ft, they weigh roughly a metric ton with their armour on.

**Lynata**

Wow, where do you people get these numbers from? This is just like all those myths and legends in real life that were probably based on real events.

They're 7 feet on average. This includes wearing power armour and means that some may grow a little larger whilst others would grow a bit smaller.

When Jes Goodwin worked on GW's Inquisitor RPG, he drew a life-sized Space Marine on a wall. This is the photo of him sitting next to said drawing.

PS: note that for some weird reason the height scale begins at 1 foot and not 0, so the "8" on the top should obviously be a "7".

**Void__Dragon**

Lynata wrote:Wow, where do you people get these numbers from? This is just like all those myths and legends in real life that were probably based on real events.

They're 7 feet on average. This includes wearing power armour and means that some may grow a little larger whilst others would grow a bit smaller.

When Jes Goodwin worked on GW's Inquisitor RPG, he drew a life-sized Space Marine on a wall. This is the photo of him sitting next to said drawing.

PS: note that for some weird reason the height scale begins at 1 foot and not 0, so the "8" on the top should obviously be a "7".

Notice how wide his legs are spread.

**Smacks**

Quoted from another topic...

Æscholt wrote:Here's a summary of the various 'canon' heights Marines have been given from time to time. If anyone has an example I've missed, then please don't hesitate to mention it.
    • Deathwatch says that "whilst wearing their power armour, an unarmed Space Marine typically stands slightly over 2.1 metres tall".
    • The current Codex: Chaos Space Marines says Marines "stand seven feet tall".
    • 2nd edition's Codex: Angels of Death describes a Marine as "seven foot tall".
    • Jes Goodwin has said that Marines are "seven to seven foot six", and his "life size" drawing of an armour Space Marine was 7′ tall.
    • James Swallow's Blood Angels series features Marines who stand "well over two metres" tall.
    • Dan Abnett's books usually place a Marine as being about a metre taller than a human, and in Horus Rising describes Loken as being "a giant, two and a half metres tall".
    • Anthony Reynolds's Word Bearers are shorter than three metres, with an "almost three metres" tall staff being "taller even than" the Marine carrying it, and a three metre tall Ogryn "dwarfed even the Terminators".
    • And lastly, Ben Counter describes Marines as being "three metres tall" in his Soul Drinkers novels.

This gives Space Marines an average cannon hight of around 7.6 foot tall. But the median and mode heights are 7 foot.

**Lynata**

Void__Dragon wrote:Notice how wide his legs are spread.

Obviously a Marine can only walk or stand with his legs spread apart as to not crush his giant adamantium balls.

Also, lol @ some of those BL authors. Actually that makes me curious as to how large Goto makes Space Marines in his books. Was it ever mentioned there?

**Void__Dragon**

Lynata wrote:Obviously a Marine can only walk or stand with his legs spread apart as to not crush his giant adamantium balls.

Also, lol @ some of those BL authors. Actually that makes me curious as to how large Goto makes Space Marines in his books. Was it ever mentioned there?

Who do you think they are, guardsmen?

I don't know, I assume that the Multilasers that they have strapped to their feet adds a foot or two.

Actually, in a related topic, how tall were the Primarchs, on average?

They were said to tower over Space Marines, but I don't know how much.

**Kid_Kyoto**

There've been hints that the Heresy era marines were larger due to purer geneseed and better technology, one of the HH books had them at 3 meters (10' tall).

I also imagine it varies by chapter, I've heard GKs are a bit shorter and stockier due to Titan's higher gravity.

**Lynata**

Void__Dragon wrote:Who do you think they are, guardsmen?

Touché!

Concerning some of those sources - keep in mind that Black Library books cannot create canon; each "average height" given in various licensed works is, at the end of the day, part of that individual author's interpretation.
May suck concerning continuity, but GW has adopted the "Star Trek" way of dealing with their setting. On the other hand, things like those multilasers etc make me feel glad it's that way.

That doesn't have to mean that there aren't any Chapters with "Three Meter Marines" (could qualify as part of their geneseed mutation or genetical trait of the local recruitment stock, after all; the 7 feet are really just the official standard) - just that it's not "GW-approved" either.

**Smacks**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I've heard GKs are a bit shorter and stockier due to Titan's higher gravity.

Titan has higher Gravity? As in... compared to Earth?

**Jimsolo**

I'm glad I got in late on this one, because I would have thrown my lot in with the '9-10' crowd. Lynata, Smacks, thanks for the information.

But still...seven feet? I'm so underwhelmed. The photo Lynata linked, especially, is disappointing. (First off, if you're trying to give me a size comparison Jes, then maybe you should position yourself in the same pose as the drawing.) Seven feet outside of power armor I can dig, but if you stuck me in power armor I would be closing in on the seven foot mark.

In my head I still always see them between seven and eight feet tall out of the armor, with the armor adding about six inches. The size that the cited fluff (and scale drawing) has them at isn't really big enough to give me that 'giant among men' feel.

**Lynata**

Hmm, I don't actually think that power armour adds that much to one's height. Looking at the drawing, the soles and he (neglectable) helmet might account for, say, 6-8cm together, but that's about it.

That said, one shouldn't forget how wide Marines are. Whilst probably just a single head or two above most people, they look like they're easily three times as broad!

That "giant amongst men" thing is probably mainly cultivated via over-the-top appearances in various novels, I suppose. Keep in mind they have to fit into that Rhino somehow.

Oh, and - glad the pic is appreciated. I admit I'm a sucker for such details, and even though I've concentrated my research on SoB and IG, I often stumble upon the odd bit of cool Astartes fluff (mainly when looking for technical specs on various equipment).

**Smacks**

Jimsolo wrote:In my head I still always see them between seven and eight feet tall out of the armor, with the armor adding about six inches. The size that the cited fluff (and scale drawing) has them at isn't really big enough to give me that 'giant among men' feel.

I think perhaps height is one of those things that just keeps getting exaggerated. I think a lot of people also might fail to visualise just how tall 7 foot really is. Andre the giant was clearly a giant among men. His actual height was 6'9.75" (measured by the French Athletic Federation in 1970 at 24 years of age.). He dwarves Hulk Hogan (who I would personally consider a giant of a man).

I have a friend who is about 5 inches taller than me (he is a giant of a man). But when he stands in front of you, that 5 inches feels more like about a foot and a half. If a guy 7'+ tall with a muscular build, where to stand in front of me, I think he would probably appear monstrous, and feel double my height (In reality I'm considerably taller that 3'6"). I think even Andre the giant a 6'10 would find such a person huge and intimidating.

When people talk about someone 9-10 foot, I think it starts to get absurd. Such a person would be so tall that I'm not even sure we could interact with each other, it would be like hanging around with a giraffe. I don't think marines really need to be so tall to be impressive, 7 foot tall is already quite obscene IMO.

**UNREALPwnage**

Imagine a half ton basketball player. That is what you are looking at for the size and weight of a fully loaded out marine

**IvanTih**

Lynata wrote:
Void__Dragon wrote:Who do you think they are, guardsmen?
Touché!

Concerning some of those sources - keep in mind that Black Library books cannot create canon; each "average height" given in various licensed works is, at the end of the day, part of that individual author's interpretation.
May suck concerning continuity, but GW has adopted the "Star Trek" way of dealing with their setting. On the other hand, things like those multilasers etc make me feel glad it's that way.

Everything in 40k is canon and Goto isn't that bad, he actually gave a good options for the Space Marines Devastators because marines aren't limited to the weapons we see on the tabletop.

“Keep in mind Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are worlds where half truths, lies, propaganda, politics, legends and myths exist. The absolute truth which is implied when you talk about “canonical background” will never be known because of this. Everything we know about these worlds is from the viewpoints of people in them which are as a result incomplete and even sometimes incorrect. The truth is mutable, debatable and lost as the victors write the history…
Here’s our standard line: Yes it’s all official, but remember that we’re reporting back from a time where stories aren’t always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it.
Let’s put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex… and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths.
I think the real problem for me, and I speak for no other, is that the topic as a “big question” doesn’t matter. It’s all as true as everything else, and all just as false/half-remembered/sort-of-true. The answer you are seeking is “Yes and no” or perhaps “Sometimes”. And for me, that’s the end of it.
Now, ask us some specifics, eg can Black Templars spit acid and we can answer that one, and many others. But again note thet answer may well be “sometimes” or “it varies” or “depends”.
But is it all true? Yes and no. Even though some of it is plainly contradictory? Yes and no. Do we deliberately contradict, retell with differences? Yes we do. Is the newer the stuff the truer it is? Yes and no. In some cases is it true that the older stuff is the truest? Yes and no. Maybe and sometimes. Depends and it varies.
It’s a decaying universe without GPS and galaxy-wide communication, where precious facts are clung to long after they have been changed out of all recognition. Read A Canticle for Liebowitz by Walter M Miller, about monks toiling to hold onto facts in the aftermath of a nucelar war; that nails it for me.
Sorry, too much splurge here. Not meant to sound stroppy.
To attempt answer the initial question: What is GW’s definition of canon? Perhaps we don’t have one. Sometimes and maybe. Or perhaps we do and I’m not telling you.”
-Marc Gascoigne

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Void__Dragon wrote:
Lynata wrote:Obviously a Marine can only walk or stand with his legs spread apart as to not crush his giant adamantium

Actually, in a related topic, how tall were the Primarchs, on average?

They were said to tower over Space Marines, but I don't know how much.

It depends on a primarch, Alpharius and Omegon were the shortest ones, tall approximately as or little more than a Space Marine, Ferrus Manus and Leman Russ IIRC were towering over the Terminators.

**the color purple**

Smacks wrote:
Jimsolo wrote:In my head I still always see them between seven and eight feet tall out of the armor, with the armor adding about six inches. The size that the cited fluff (and scale drawing) has them at isn't really big enough to give me that 'giant among men' feel.

I think perhaps height is one of those things that just keeps getting exaggerated. I think a lot of people also might fail to visualise just how tall 7 foot really is. Andre the giant was clearly a giant among men. His actual height was 6'9.75" (measured by the French Athletic Federation in 1970 at 24 years of age.). He dwarves Hulk Hogan (who I would personally consider a giant of a man).

I have a friend who is about 5 inches taller than me (he is a giant of a man). But when he stands in front of you, that 5 inches feels more like about a foot and a half. If a guy 7'+ tall with a muscular build, where to stand in front of me, I think he would probably appear monstrous, and feel double my height (In reality I'm considerably taller that 3'6"). I think even Andre the giant a 6'10 would find such a person huge and intimidating.

When people talk about someone 9-10 foot, I think it starts to get absurd. Such a person would be so tall that I'm not even sure we could interact with each other, it would be like hanging around with a giraffe. I don't think marines really need to be so tall to be impressive, 7 foot tall is already quite obscene IMO.

I agree with this. If marines were running around at 9-10', they would be stooping through doors and down corridors and simply wouldn't fit into vehicles like rhinos. And that's not even considering width. Space marines would be much, much bigger and broader than normal 7' humans. At 9' they would be turning sideways to get through openings built for people our size. The Horus Heresy series depicts marines and normal humans living comfortably on the same ships. Either the Imperium is vastly more generous than modern navies in providing moving and living space for their crews, or space marines are moving around in all those scenes bent over and strafing sideways.

**Kilkrazy**

Imperial ships are more like cathedrals than modern naval vessels.

**snake**

So 7ish feet...kinda underwhelming imo, but I guess it works. Although it does not mesh greatly with the giants-vastly-superior-to-men image. And fitting a half a ton of weight over a 7' frame would be very awkward. I guess marines are squares?

**Lynata**

IvanTih wrote:Everything in 40k is canon [...]

"Everything" cannot be canon, for that's like saying "yes" and "no" are both true - or that Tau have hooves (actual GW minis) as well as feet ("Xenology"). Where contradictions arise, one source is obviously either wrong or supersedes the other. George Mann - the Head of Publishing - has made it a little bit clearer than Marc Gascogne, who is "just" an author. The following is from the 2008 GW Annual Meeting, where he was confronted with this very question:

In further conversation, George emphasized that Black Library’s main objective was to “tell good stories”. He agreed that some points in certain novels could, perhaps, have benefited from the editor’s red pen (a certain multilaser was mentioned) but was at pains to explain that, just as each hobbyist tends to interpret the background and facts of the Warhammer and 40k worlds differently, so does each author. In essence, each author represents an “alternative” version of the respective worlds. After pressing him further, he explained that only the Studio material (rulebooks, codexes, army books and suchlike) was canonical in that is HAD to be adhered-to in the plots and background of the novels. There was no obligation on authors to adhere to facts and events as spelled out in Black Library work.

This essentially mirrors what Gav Thorpe and Aaron Dembski-Bowden have mentioned on their blogs. The latter actually clearly stated he doesn't care what some other novel author writes if he thinks it's crap, as BL does give him the freedom to simply disregard it.
http://www.boomtron.com/2011/03/grimdark-ii-loose-canon/
Which is exactly what Gav wrote about GW sometimes adopting novel aspects they like, but not actually feeling in any way bound to do so.
http://mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/jumping-the-fence/

I have to add that - for many years! - I too thought that Black Library stuff was as canon as GW books. It was not until I noticed more and more contradictions, some of whom even go against the very spirit of an army, popped up that I actually went to investigate this further, looking for insider statements such as the ones mentioned above. Now I can rest easy, knowing that certain BL slip-ups can be ignored, whilst I'll still take inspiration from things that sounds like they'd fit.

**FuryTheBerserker**

the

english

metric

system!

(taken from Warhammer 40k wikia)

I hope you dont mind the size of the picture.

**Gorskar.da.Lost**

snake wrote:So 7ish feet...kinda underwhelming imo, but I guess it works. Although it does not mesh greatly with the giants-vastly-superior-to-men image. And fitting a half a ton of weight over a 7' frame would be very awkward. I guess marines are squares?

They are very, very stocky, yes. To be fair, it's more like 7'6'', which is actually quite an intimidating height, when you think about it. Given that the average human stands at around 6ft, this puts the marines (considering their width as well as height) as a considerable size advantage to them, which is further enhanced by the power armour.

**Lynata**

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:To be fair, it's more like 7'6''

As per GW, apparently not. Why the bartering for inches?

Smacks actually raised a very good point. 7 feet is freakishly huge already. There's really no need to go beyond this size as the established average just to prove a point. From an outside perspective, that just sounds as if their fans would perceive the Marines as not being "l33t" enough as they are as per what GW intended, or that they feel threatened that there's a chance the Astartes might get pushed out of the limelight every so often.

Personally, I find the whole "power creep" that takes places in various licensed works irritating, be it in relation to their size, their toughness or their equipment - especially given that it focuses on the most popular army with the intent to make them even more popular. It's like the Hollywood movies where every action movie has to incorporate more explosions than the prior one, until it reaches a point that just looks over the top. Though admittedly where that point lies depends heavily on one's personal preferences - but you get my drift...

Anyways, there seems to be a strong mythos-thing going on. Just look at how many people think the Movie Marines article is intended to present Marines in a "realistic" manner, when the article itself (and its very name!) clearly states the opposite.

**IvanTih**

Lynata wrote:*snip*

BL stuff has to adhere to the defined elements of the 40k setting, that's why we have Heretic Tomes after all.

And a lot of those contradictions can resolved by look at the size of the Imperium, after all a galaxy sized empire is full of a people with different opinion.

**Lynata**

IvanTih wrote:BL stuff has to adhere to the defined elements of the 40k setting, that's why we have Heretic Tomes after all.

That's the problem, for there are two things:

- authors DO make mistakes which do not get corrected by editors (Ecclesiarchy having its own battleships, Terminators doing backflips, Multilaser-Marines, D-cannons firing projectiles, Schola Progenium not being gender-divided, ... etc pp)
and
- novels still cannot establish any canon on their own (else BL would demand its writers to respect each other), so what's the point in pulling them as a source?

As Gav Thorpe said in the blog I linked above:
"On the other hand, if an author has a bit of a wobbly moment, there’s no pressure to feel that it has to be accepted into the worldview promulgated by the codexes and army books."

One question though, what's a Heretic Tome? I admit I've not heard of such thing yet.

IvanTih wrote:And a lot of those contradictions can resolved by look at the size of the Imperium, after all a galaxy sized empire is full of a people with different opinion.

Some, yes. As I said, uberhuge Marines in one book could be explained-away by thinking of geneseed mutations etc - but other things such as the cited examples on novel flaws are simply facts that are valid everywhere, be it due to the technical principle working as invented by GW, or because of some general rule promulgated by the studio material.
I, too, still like to adopt certain ideas from various novels that I personally like and where they do not contradict anything defined by GW. That said, I have to keep in mind that GW may overrule them any day. They don't feel in any way bound to what BL churns out.

**IvanTih**

Lynata wrote:
IvanTih wrote:BL stuff has to adhere to the defined elements of the 40k setting, that's why we have Heretic Tomes after all.
That's the problem, for there are two things:

- authors DO make mistakes which do not get corrected by editors (Ecclesiarchy having its own battleships, Terminators doing backflips, Multilaser-Marines, D-cannons firing projectiles, Schola Progenium not being gender-divided, ... etc pp)
and
- novels still cannot establish any canon on their own (else BL would demand its writers to respect each other), so what's the point in pulling them as a source?

I will see this thread later , but I edited the post above, so can you edit the quote?

**Lynata**

IvanTih wrote:I will see this thread later , but I edited the post above, so can you edit the quote?

Done!