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I guess you have a point tombking

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

Skip wrote:
First I want to thank you jy2 for this nice thread

And I want to know your opinion on adding a SM gate-libby to the Tau deathstar. Would make it even more deadly and mobile. Teleporting up to 24" without scattering (Farsight), make it a Lvl 2 psyker and you could also cast Null Zone...

Also 2 10 man tacticals in rhinos would add some nice scoring ability to the Tau army

Yes, an attached SM Librarian covers all the weaknesses in the Tau star, i.e. Mobility and Psychic Defence, and gives them a huge counter to re-rollstars like Pinkstar and Seer Council.

Deldar is kind of a misnomer- they're both Eldar. Only mon'keighs call them... Dark Eldar. Heck, only people outside the 40k universe call them Dark Eldar. Everyone else (themselves included) just considers them to be Eldar.

I dont think you can jump in the assault phase with a libby attached to the tau squad that would be the only draw back but having ATSKNF is huge for such a expensive squad

Edit: just posted in the wrong thread

Game #7 - Rematch - Farsight-Bomb Tau vs Seer Council Deldar

In the previous matchup between the two, the Deldar Seer Council seriously whipped Farsight's deathstar. However, going into that game, the Farsight Bomb was at 2-0 and the Seer Council at 1-1. Now they are both at 2-1 and tied for 1st. This rematch will determine who is the winner in this tournament of the deathstars.

For the seer council battles, I played against my friend and local Deldar expert, Grant (aka SonsofGrant here on dakka). His seer council is much feared in our area. So far I have played against them 4 times and I can honestly say that I hate Eldar, I hate Rues of Warding and I hate the seer council.

BTW, congrats to Grant for recently winning in our local RTT with his 1750 Double Trouble Beastpack Deer Council Dual Deathstar Deldar army. Grant, enjoy it while you still can, because in a few weeks when you get a new codex, your seer council will be history.


1000 Farsight-Bomb Tau

I changed up this list slightly. I've swapped out the Neuroweb Jammer and Target Lock on 1 suit for a Drone Controller. I think this will actually improve the list by making the drones better shooters.


Farsight
Shadowsun (Warlord)

1x Bodyguard - TL-Fusion Blasters, Vectored Retro-thrusters, 2x Gun Drones, Command & Control Node, Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite
1x Bodyguard - Missile Pods, Plasma Rifle, Vectored Retro-thrusters, 2x Gun Drones, Puretide Engram Neurochip
1x Bodyguard - Missile Pods, Plasma Rifle, Target Lock, 1x Gun Drone, Iridium Battlesuit
1x Bodyguard - Missile Pods, Plasma Rifle, Target Lock, 2x Gun Drones, Neuroweb System Jammer, Ongager Gauntlet
3x Bodyguard - Missile Pods, Plasma Rifle, Target Lock, 2x Gun Drones



1000 Jetseer Council Deldar

Baron Sathonyx

Farseer - Jetbike, Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Doom, Eldritch Storm, Guide, Mind War - Invisibility, Terrify, Puppet Master, Psychic Shriek
Farseer - Jetbike, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Fortune, Doom (Warlord)

6x Warlocks - Jetbikes, Destructors
2x Warlocks - Jetbikes
1x Warlock - Jetbike, Embolden
1x Warlock - Jetbike, Enhance

1000

Warlord Trait: Enemy uses the lowest LD within 12" of the Warlord


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment: Dawn of War


Initiative: Tau


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Pre-Game Thoughts:

While deldar psychic powers aren't really all that great, they hit the mother lode with possibly the best Warlord Trait they can get in this game and against Tau. Now they are forcing the Farsight Bomb to test on the gun drone's LD 7!!! Man, this is going to be a very dangerous game for Tau. Every morale test they are forced to make, they are in danger of falling back or getting swept. Almost makes me wish I didn't have any gun drones in the deathstar. All it takes is 1 turn of combat for deldar and it can very well be game over.

I will be playing the Farsight Bomb in this rematch and with 1 game against the Seer Council (with Tau) under my belt, you can bet that I will be more dangerous and more cunning than ever. No, this time I have a game plan and I am fully confident my Tau with be triumphant. I am somewhat concerned about his Warlord trait, but a true deathstar can and will fight through any and all adversities....or get tabled trying. If he thinks Farsight is going to be the pushover that he was in Game #6, I think my opponent's going to be in for a rude awakening.

In any case, this ought to be fun.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:




-------------------------------------------------------------------


Turn 1




Turn 2




Turn 3




-------------------------------------------------------------------


Post-Game Thoughts:

MarkyMark wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

Skip wrote:
First I want to thank you jy2 for this nice thread

And I want to know your opinion on adding a SM gate-libby to the Tau deathstar. Would make it even more deadly and mobile. Teleporting up to 24" without scattering (Farsight), make it a Lvl 2 psyker and you could also cast Null Zone...

Also 2 10 man tacticals in rhinos would add some nice scoring ability to the Tau army

Yes, an attached SM Librarian covers all the weaknesses in the Tau star, i.e. Mobility and Psychic Defence, and gives them a huge counter to re-rollstars like Pinkstar and Seer Council.

Deldar is kind of a misnomer- they're both Eldar. Only mon'keighs call them... Dark Eldar. Heck, only people outside the 40k universe call them Dark Eldar. Everyone else (themselves included) just considers them to be Eldar.

I dont think you can jump in the assault phase with a libby attached to the tau squad that would be the only draw back but having ATSKNF is huge for such a expensive squad

their are no libbys with jump packs? that would solve this right up!!

maybe a farseer?

Theorius wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

Skip wrote:
First I want to thank you jy2 for this nice thread

And I want to know your opinion on adding a SM gate-libby to the Tau deathstar. Would make it even more deadly and mobile. Teleporting up to 24" without scattering (Farsight), make it a Lvl 2 psyker and you could also cast Null Zone...

Also 2 10 man tacticals in rhinos would add some nice scoring ability to the Tau army

Yes, an attached SM Librarian covers all the weaknesses in the Tau star, i.e. Mobility and Psychic Defence, and gives them a huge counter to re-rollstars like Pinkstar and Seer Council.

Deldar is kind of a misnomer- they're both Eldar. Only mon'keighs call them... Dark Eldar. Heck, only people outside the 40k universe call them Dark Eldar. Everyone else (themselves included) just considers them to be Eldar.

I dont think you can jump in the assault phase with a libby attached to the tau squad that would be the only draw back but having ATSKNF is huge for such a expensive squad

their are no libbys with jump packs? that would solve this right up!!

maybe a farseer?

Only jet pack units can move in assault phase, not jump packs. Farseer wouldnt make the deathstar fearless or stop them being run down

I guess that it makes sense to go for the 1/3 chance of an instant win by killing Shadowsun and hoping the rest of the tau deathstar doesn't come in but I would think that the Ravenwing would have done better to not shoot Shadowsun and try to assault but not kill her. That way on the 2/3 chance Farsight and company come in they can't shoot. RW can then kill Shadowsun or HnR out after Farsight is on the table so at least the deep strike card has been played.

Well maybe it won't matter depending on the Ld roll. Can't wait to see how it comes out.

Bonus Deathmatch #5 completed on p. 10.

How did the character scout Jim? (if I read that correctly.....)

Was quite close really if hit and run had passed I think the tau would have won this, cant say the DA deathstar worries me at all or would be a good addition in any game

That was not good tau tactics...NEVER DEEP STRIKE, the turn 1 shooting the. Jump 3d6 would have made the gap needed...sighs...

Regardless the failed overwatch AND the failed hit and run was the icing on the cake!!

JY2!!

Why are you using target lock instead of advanced targeting? Or the one that does overwatch at bs2?

Also drone controller can go on the command suit, his only hard point is vector thruster

Obligatory Gloat Post!

Nice to see my RW (clad in heretic's clothing) maintain their winning streak despite being proxied thousands of miles away

Deep Striking the Tau was quite unexpected, but it was either that or heavy turn one casualties.

MarkyMark wrote:
How did the character scout Jim? (if I read that correctly.....)

Was quite close really if hit and run had passed I think the tau would have won this, cant say the DA deathstar worries me at all or would be a good addition in any game

Scout is a unit-based USR that has no limitation on Characters, unlike Infiltrate.

It's kind of an anti-Deathstar Deathstar, but it functions much better as separate units so there's really no point taking it in any game.

ptlangley wrote:
I guess that it makes sense to go for the 1/3 chance of an instant win by killing Shadowsun and hoping the rest of the tau deathstar doesn't come in but I would think that the Ravenwing would have done better to not shoot Shadowsun and try to assault but not kill her. That way on the 2/3 chance Farsight and company come in they can't shoot. RW can then kill Shadowsun or HnR out after Farsight is on the table so at least the deep strike card has been played.

Well maybe it won't matter depending on the Ld roll. Can't wait to see how it comes out.

That is definitely a viable tactic, though the chances of her surviving an assault from a deathstar is slim to none.

MarkyMark wrote:
How did the character scout Jim? (if I read that correctly.....)

Was quite close really if hit and run had passed I think the tau would have won this, cant say the DA deathstar worries me at all or would be a good addition in any game

I might be wrong, and I don't have my rulebook with me to look up right now, but I was under the impression that the characters could scout with the unit. I'll look it up when I get back unless someone can help quote the appropriate rules for Scout here.

The Ravenstar has decent offense. Where it suffers is its resiliency. It isn't nearly as survivable as the other deathstars here, though it isn't too bad if Sevrin can get Invisibility (assuming he can even get Telepathy at all). T5 with 3+ and even 5+ FNP will fall to weight-of-fire.

Theorius wrote:
That was not good tau tactics...NEVER DEEP STRIKE, the turn 1 shooting the. Jump 3d6 would have made the gap needed...sighs...

Regardless the failed overwatch AND the failed hit and run was the icing on the cake!!

JY2!!

Why are you using target lock instead of advanced targeting? Or the one that does overwatch at bs2?

Also drone controller can go on the command suit, his only hard point is vector thruster

I don't think you realize just how dangerous the Ravenstar is. They are going first and they can ignore cover with Perfect Timing. Farsight's unit is huge and they don't really have a large LOS-blocking terrain to hide behind (Ravenstar chose the side for Tau where it would be harder to hide behind LOS-blocking terrain). So that's 12" scout + 12" move + 18" range = 42" range. Then they're firing 16 twin-linked plasma shots which will probably insta-kill the suits due to Rad Grenades reducing Toughness by 1....and most likely without cover! The only way for Tau to avoid the Ravenstar alpha strike is to deploy entire outside their threat range....but that would probably take them out of their shooting range as well (except perhaps for a few missiles).

Any ways you put it, this match isn't really favorable for Tau unless they can get their alpha-strike first.

I like to build my deathstars as balanced, all-comer's deathstars. Thus, if you take this deathstar and put it in a regular Tau army, it would be able to function without making any changes to it. Hence, the target locks are there because they would be a necessity if the Farsight Bomb was actually in a real Tau army. Basically, I don't like to tailor my deathstars. Take any of my deathstars and put it in an existing army and they will function just fine.

I will update one of the bodyguards with a drone controller for future battles.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Obligatory Gloat Post!

Nice to see my RW (clad in heretic's clothing) maintain their winning streak despite being proxied thousands of miles away

Deep Striking the Tau was quite unexpected, but it was either that or heavy turn one casualties.

MarkyMark wrote:
How did the character scout Jim? (if I read that correctly.....)

Was quite close really if hit and run had passed I think the tau would have won this, cant say the DA deathstar worries me at all or would be a good addition in any game

Scout is a unit-based USR that has no limitation on Characters, unlike Infiltrate.

It's kind of an anti-Deathstar Deathstar, but it functions much better as separate units so there's really no point taking it in any game.

I just might have to kick it's (your deathstar's) butt with another deathstar (think pink ). It performed admirably in this game, but only by getting the right psychic power (Perfect Timing) and with a little help from the dice. They won't be so lucky next time.

Yes Jy2 try the pink star!, they dont care if they are t2! (or 1 even).

Chris is correct, units with at least one model with scout can scout. Never relised this before!

Perfectiming timing and misfortune would be very nice against the RW - star, still they have a 4 plus DTW against the squad and 5+ against the LoC heralds

Shame i dont have a table at mine (yet) I have all the correct models painted and ready to go to do this bat rep :(

 Dash2021 wrote:
Everything is going as planned *rubs hands together*

Realistically, if Deldar get misfortune (high likely hood), this becomes a difficult matchup for Tau. As Jy2 has pointed out several times now, all the Eldar player has to do is deploy out of first turn shooting range of the Tau and Eldar only have to endure one turn of fire before getting in combat.

Assuming all the Eldar players powers go off, and this is a pretty safe bet as Eldar psykers are possibly the most reliable in the game and Tau can only deny on a 6, Eldar can dish out a lot of wounds. In turn your opponent has to roll a bucket load of dice to save. Once in combat, precision strikes can be used to play a conservative game (take out H&R) or go for the throat (allocate to Stubborn model and try to run down). People tend to underestemate how much dmg the council can put out in HtH due to the lack of AP on their weapons. However between Doom, Prescience, and Misfortune you end up drowning your opponent in dice. Even against 2+ armor, the council's 40 attacks would put out 9-10 unsaved wounds.

All in all, the Seer Council just has the tools to get the job done against Tau. 80/20 odds favoring Eldar IMHO. Only deathstars that give the council problems have a combination of multi-wound, FNP, or 2+. Paladins have all of those so, ignoring everything else that can be said about the the two games showcased here, it's a bad matchup for the council. To win the Deldar have to play perfectly, with a lot of breaks going their way. Paladins, on the other hand, can win handily rolling just below avg. Council vs. Nob bikers would be nearly as bad.

As has already been said, deathstars are a paper -rock- scissors affair. They become truly nasty when you attach an army that compliments their weakness.

I'd probably go 60/40 for deldar but that's because I'm an optimist. After having some experience against them, I think I have a strategy in mind for the rematch (Farsight vs the Seer Council).

Yeah, there is an element of rock-paper-scissors to most of these deathstars. That is because they tend to over-emphasize a particular phase (i.e. shooting for Tau and the Pinkstar, shooting and assault for Draigowing and assault + mobility for the seer council) but can be exploited where they are weakest (Draigowing is slow, Pinkstar can be beaten in assault and is too reliant on psychic powers, Tau is weak in assault, seer council have weak shooting and problems against 2+ units).

Skip wrote:
First I want to thank you jy2 for this nice thread

And I want to know your opinion on adding a SM gate-libby to the Tau deathstar. Would make it even more deadly and mobile. Teleporting up to 24" without scattering (Farsight), make it a Lvl 2 psyker and you could also cast Null Zone...

Also 2 10 man tacticals in rhinos would add some nice scoring ability to the Tau army

You're welcome.

The SM librarian actually complements the Tau deathstar well. He gives them psychic defense, some good psychic buffs and excellent mobility. My only issue is that I think they may lose their assault move jump, which I think may be a better tactical option. ATSKNF is nice, but you are also going to have to give up some firepower in the form of 1 suit and some drones to fit him in. This build may require some playtesting.

For the purposes of these deathstar battles, scoring units aren't necessarily, though they would be nice to have in a real game.

 jy2 wrote:

Theorius wrote:
That was not good tau tactics...NEVER DEEP STRIKE, the turn 1 shooting the. Jump 3d6 would have made the gap needed...sighs...

Regardless the failed overwatch AND the failed hit and run was the icing on the cake!!

JY2!!

Why are you using target lock instead of advanced targeting? Or the one that does overwatch at bs2?

Also drone controller can go on the command suit, his only hard point is vector thruster

I don't think you realize just how dangerous the Ravenstar is. They are going first and they can ignore cover with Perfect Timing. Farsight's unit is huge and they don't really have a large LOS-blocking terrain to hide behind (Ravenstar chose the side for Tau where it would be harder to hide behind LOS-blocking terrain). So that's 12" scout + 12" move + 18" range = 42" range. Then they're firing 16 twin-linked plasma shots which will probably insta-kill the suits due to Rad Grenades reducing Toughness by 1....and most likely without cover! The only way for Tau to avoid the Ravenstar alpha strike is to deploy entire outside their threat range....but that would probably take them out of their shooting range as well (except perhaps for a few missiles).

Any ways you put it, this match isn't really favorable for Tau unless they can get their alpha-strike first.

I like to build my deathstars as balanced, all-comer's deathstars. Thus, if you take this deathstar and put it in a regular Tau army, it would be able to function without making any changes to it. Hence, the target locks are there because they would be a necessity if the Farsight Bomb was actually in a real Tau army. Basically, I don't like to tailor my deathstars. Take any of my deathstars and put it in an existing army and they will function just fine.

I will update one of the bodyguards with a drone controller for future battles.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Obligatory Gloat Post!

Nice to see my RW (clad in heretic's clothing) maintain their winning streak despite being proxied thousands of miles away

Deep Striking the Tau was quite unexpected, but it was either that or heavy turn one casualties.

MarkyMark wrote:
How did the character scout Jim? (if I read that correctly.....)

Was quite close really if hit and run had passed I think the tau would have won this, cant say the DA deathstar worries me at all or would be a good addition in any game

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Awww i stand to your wisdom on deep striking, sounds like it was super viable.

I personally agree 100% on the take all comers approuch, but the way some of these stars have been going they are not take all comers. Like that raven star is that REALLY a take all comers star? or one tooled to defeat other deathstars and would never see battle.

Part of the issue is i think the 1000k approuch (with i agree 100%) but tau are optimal at 1000, some of the other stars would work with less, and not take tons of these bells and whistles you are needing to throw in to get to 1k

any who!

great fight regardless! and thank you for your efforts logging all this stuff and answering all these questions!

 Tomb King wrote:
Fixed the list:

Drop the firewarriors as they are not needed.

Tau/Dar WraithBomb

ShadowSun 175pts 2x shield drones

Tau Commander 217pts w/ vectored Retro-thrusters; plasma rifle x2; Onager Gauntlet, Repulsor Impact Field, Puretide Engram Neurochip, Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite, XV8-02 Crisis 'Iridium' Battlesuit; 1 shield drone)

6 fire warriors 54pts

Eldrad 210pts

10 Wraithguard with spirit seer Conceal 396pts

Yes the conceal gives a 5+ cover. The then stacks with shrouding and stealth. Making the 2+ cover save. Then fortune from eldrad gives them the re-roll to save. The list is seriously resilient. Still haven't decided if it should run plasma or missle for the commander. They ignore cover for all shooting. Have hit and run. The neurochip can help with counter attack, furious charge, monster hunter, stubborn, or tank hunter. Ide like to see this list vs Paladin star. I seriously think it eats it for lunch. The toughest match-up for this list would probably be the tau.

Ide like to see how this list does against the palistar. I think that would be its toughest match-up of all the deathstars listed. Could we get that match-up?

 jy2 wrote:

ptlangley wrote:
I guess that it makes sense to go for the 1/3 chance of an instant win by killing Shadowsun and hoping the rest of the tau deathstar doesn't come in but I would think that the Ravenwing would have done better to not shoot Shadowsun and try to assault but not kill her. That way on the 2/3 chance Farsight and company come in they can't shoot. RW can then kill Shadowsun or HnR out after Farsight is on the table so at least the deep strike card has been played.

Well maybe it won't matter depending on the Ld roll. Can't wait to see how it comes out.

That is definitely a viable tactic, though the chances of her surviving an assault from a deathstar is slim to none.

I think you could hold the bulk of the bikes further out to make sure only a handful of bikes make it into the initial assault and then holster your corvus hammers for the first round of assault. If there is a challenge you could accept and fight with a judo chop and bolt pistol for the first round. Save the force weapon for the next round or HnR if you can't get the job done in the second round. Plus you would have "Moral Support" so you should get 2 rerolls which you could use to try to fail to wound the first round. I don't think it would be that hard to keep her alive for one round.

The question would be what does farsight do, I presume he would deepstrike far away so that the ravenstar couldn't attack outright the next turn. So then it becomes a question of can the bikes close the gap before the the tau guns take them down. I expect they could.

I'll get to my responses a little later. Tonight is gaming night for me. Gonna go test out my Pinkstar....in an actual army!

 Tomb King wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:
Fixed the list:

Drop the firewarriors as they are not needed.

Tau/Dar WraithBomb

ShadowSun 175pts 2x shield drones

Tau Commander 217pts w/ vectored Retro-thrusters; plasma rifle x2; Onager Gauntlet, Repulsor Impact Field, Puretide Engram Neurochip, Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite, XV8-02 Crisis 'Iridium' Battlesuit; 1 shield drone)

6 fire warriors 54pts

Eldrad 210pts

10 Wraithguard with spirit seer Conceal 396pts

Yes the conceal gives a 5+ cover. The then stacks with shrouding and stealth. Making the 2+ cover save. Then fortune from eldrad gives them the re-roll to save. The list is seriously resilient. Still haven't decided if it should run plasma or missle for the commander. They ignore cover for all shooting. Have hit and run. The neurochip can help with counter attack, furious charge, monster hunter, stubborn, or tank hunter. Ide like to see this list vs Paladin star. I seriously think it eats it for lunch. The toughest match-up for this list would probably be the tau.

Ide like to see how this list does against the palistar. I think that would be its toughest match-up of all the deathstars listed. Could we get that match-up?

Strange, I thought I replied to this. In any case, I've added this battle to my queue - Wraithstar Taudar vs Paladinstar Grey Knights.

I don't have any of the eldar models for this battle, so expect to see some proxies.

ptlangley wrote:


I think you could hold the bulk of the bikes further out to make sure only a handful of bikes make it into the initial assault and then holster your corvus hammers for the first round of assault. If there is a challenge you could accept and fight with a judo chop and bolt pistol for the first round. Save the force weapon for the next round or HnR if you can't get the job done in the second round. Plus you would have "Moral Support" so you should get 2 rerolls which you could use to try to fail to wound the first round. I don't think it would be that hard to keep her alive for one round.

The question would be what does farsight do, I presume he would deepstrike far away so that the ravenstar couldn't attack outright the next turn. So then it becomes a question of can the bikes close the gap before the the tau guns take them down. I expect they could.

Everything your saying is valid and very tactically astute, so don't take my next sentence as an insult. I literally laughed out loud reading your strategy for keeping your opponent alive. The idea of hitting someone with a pistol and being so motivated by your friends that it makes you miss is awesome. Keep in mind, she's a unit of one, you can challenge and she HAS to accept. That's the way to go.

Can't you just see it:

"Azreal: You are amazing.
Shadowsun: I ought to be, after 20 years.
Azreal: Oh, there's something I ought to tell you.
Shadowsun: Tell me.
Azreal: I'm not left-handed either."

ptlangley wrote:
Can't you just see it:

"Azreal: You are amazing.
Shadowsun: I ought to be, after 20 years.
Azreal: Oh, there's something I ought to tell you.
Shadowsun: Tell me.
Azreal: I'm not left-handed either."

I don't really know what the normal criteria for an exalt is, but that more than met my standards...

Win

ptlangley wrote:
Can't you just see it:

"Azreal: You are amazing.
Shadowsun: I ought to be, after 20 years.
Azreal: Oh, there's something I ought to tell you.
Shadowsun: Tell me.
Azreal: I'm not left-handed either."

i laughed out loud so hard my cat jumped 5 feet, LOVE IT!!

I just had an EPIC Game #7 Rematch between Farsight Tau and Seer Council Eldar.....it was definitely the most exciting game of the series that I've played so far. We also had an audience watching during the game as most of my friends there have been following this thread as well. It was definitely a very good conclusion to the series, with one of us literally jumping for joy afterwards.


You have got to read the report when it comes out. But first, 1 more Bonus Deathmatch before the finale.


----------------------------------------------------------------


I also got in an actual game with my Pinkstar army against a Farsight Bomb Tau/Necron list.

I ran:

Lord of Change - Lvl 3, 2x Greater/1x Lesser Gift
4x Tzeentch Heralds - All Lvl 3, Grimoire, Portaglyph, 2x Conjuration Loci

2x20 Horrors

20x Seekers

2x Slaanesh Soulgrinders - Torrent


He ran:

Farsight
Shadowsun
5x Bodyguards with different load-outs, 10x gun drones
Necron Destroyer Lord - 2+, MSS

Riptide - Ion Accelerator, TL-Fusion, Overwatch-wargear

3 units of fire warriors
6x Necron Warriors - Night Scythe

6x Pathfinders
4x Wraiths


I didn't do a battle report for this because it ended prematurely, but I had everything going for my daemons. I got 4+ FNP and 3+ for my LoC with Precognition and Misfortune. The Heralds got 2x Perfect Timing, Misfortune and 2x Forewarning. I mean, I couldn't ask for any better powers/gifts.

My opponent failed to go first and told me that he has never gone first with his Tau yet. Thus, to give him a fighting chance, I opt to let him go first. He almost killed one of my Heralds on T1 but I manage to survive. I just advance. My LoC did shoot up his pathfinders and caused them to break, though I didn't get First Blood yet.

Then on T2, he focused his entire Farsight deathstar on my Warlord, the LoC. With a re-rollable 3+/4++ (only Forewarning, I used the Grimoire on my seekers) and 4+ FNP, my LoC survived the fire of his deathstar without so much as a scratch. Then before I got to my turn, he conceded because he was looking at assault by seekers with 2++ invuln's, the LoC and both Soulgrinders. And that's not including the shooting of my 2 deathstar horror units (with 2 Heralds and Perfect Timing each). And over 2 turns of shooting, he barely scratched my army!

When daemons are clicking on all 4 cyclinders like they were in our game, they are downright frightening. There is NO army that they can't beat when they are like this. They are also one of the most intimidating armies as well. I think I broke my opponent's spirit just by them not dying.

 jy2 wrote:
I just had an EPIC Game #7 Rematch between Farsight Tau and Seer Council Eldar.....it was definitely the most exciting game of the series that I've played so far. We also had an audience watching during the game as most of my friends there have been following this thread as well. It was definitely a very good conclusion to the series, with one of us literally jumping for joy afterwards.


You have got to read the report when it comes out. But first, 1 more Bonus Deathmatch before the finale.


----------------------------------------------------------------


I also got in an actual game with my Pinkstar army against a Farsight Bomb Tau/Necron list.

I ran:

Lord of Change - Lvl 3, 2x Greater/1x Lesser Gift
4x Tzeentch Heralds - All Lvl 3, Grimoire, Portaglyph, 2x Conjuration Loci

2x20 Horrors

20x Seekers

2x Slaanesh Soulgrinders - Torrent


He ran:

Farsight
Shadowsun
5x Bodyguards with different load-outs, 10x gun drones
Necron Destroyer Lord - 2+, MSS

Riptide - Ion Accelerator, TL-Fusion, Overwatch-wargear

3 units of fire warriors
6x Necron Warriors - Night Scythe

6x Pathfinders
4x Wraiths


I didn't do a battle report for this because it ended prematurely, but I had everything going for my daemons. I got 4+ FNP and 3+ for my LoC with Precognition and Misfortune. The Heralds got 2x Perfect Timing, Misfortune and 2x Forewarning. I mean, I couldn't ask for any better powers/gifts.

My opponent failed to go first and told me that he has never gone first with his Tau yet. Thus, to give him a fighting chance, I opt to let him go first. He almost killed one of my Heralds on T1 but I manage to survive. I just advance. My LoC did shoot up his pathfinders and caused them to break, though I didn't get First Blood yet.

Then on T2, he focused his entire Farsight deathstar on my Warlord, the LoC. With a re-rollable 3+/4++ (only Forewarning, I used the Grimoire on my seekers) and 4+ FNP, my LoC survived the fire of his deathstar without so much as a scratch. Then before I got to my turn, he conceded because he was looking at assault by seekers with 2++ invuln's, the LoC and both Soulgrinders. And that's not including the shooting of my 2 deathstar horror units (with 2 Heralds and Perfect Timing each). And over 2 turns of shooting, he barely scratched my army!

When daemons are clicking on all 4 cyclinders like they were in our game, they are downright frightening. There is NO army that they can't beat when they are like this. They are also one of the most intimidating armies as well. I think I broke my opponent's spirit just by them not dying.

awesome!!! cant wait, wish i was there but i got sick this week :( would have been cool to see the final battle!!!!

as a side note....have you remembered to use the nueral web jammer? or is it just not doing alot due to the saves of most deathstars?

they GOT to be nerfing that grimoire soon i suspect? yes no?

I actually had to drop out 1 Target Lock and the Neural Jammer in order to fit in the Drone Controller. But it didn't matter as Eldar didn't really fire a shot. They just went straight for assault.

No, the Grimoire isn't going to get nerfed anytime soon. There's a 1/3 chance it will fail and when it does, daemons are probably going to lose that unit. Over the course of 1 game, you're going to fail 1 or 2 times and it'll probably be when you need it to work the most.

 jy2 wrote:
I actually had to drop out 1 Target Lock and the Neural Jammer in order to fit in the Drone Controller. But it didn't matter as Eldar didn't really fire a shot. They just went straight for assault.

No, the Grimoire isn't going to get nerfed anytime soon. There's a 1/3 chance it will fail and when it does, daemons are probably going to lose that unit. Over the course of 1 game, you're going to fail 1 or 2 times and it'll probably be when you need it to work the most.

The guy in my meta who runs Demons runs them with Fateweaver for that very reason (well, and the Warp Storm reroll). He essentially never loses Grimoire, although he runs it on Hounds rather than Seekers. Or, if he wants to tie up something scary, on Fateweever (making him immortal). It's extremely brutal. His list is entirely different than yours, and almost as scary to play against (it lacks the pure damage output, but imo it's more reliable), which I think is a sign of a codex with good internal balance.

 jy2 wrote:
I actually had to drop out 1 Target Lock and the Neural Jammer in order to fit in the Drone Controller. But it didn't matter as Eldar didn't really fire a shot. They just went straight for assault.

No, the Grimoire isn't going to get nerfed anytime soon. There's a 1/3 chance it will fail and when it does, daemons are probably going to lose that unit. Over the course of 1 game, you're going to fail 1 or 2 times and it'll probably be when you need it to work the most.

i personally thing 40k is lessened by these units with 2+ rerollable, it breaks the game. 3+ rerollable should be the best anything should be able to get RELIABLY

When a 400-500 point unit (your pink star) can weather 1000 pts of shooting from say a tau deathstar and lose barely anything....there is a problem. HECK you could buy a MINIMUM horror/seeker unit with no bells and whistles and it could survive 1k of tau shooting from the deathstar.

If the guy with the grimoire couldnt be in the unit he buffs then maybe, or he had to take a save or suffer a wound....needs some drawback a 1/3rd chance of failure is not enough.

I personally am HOPING they dont let it stack with the other invuln buffer thingy.

just my opinion!

ptlangley wrote:
Can't you just see it:

"Azreal: You are amazing.
Shadowsun: I ought to be, after 20 years.
Azreal: Oh, there's something I ought to tell you.
Shadowsun: Tell me.
Azreal: I'm not left-handed either."

Brilliant!

Well played, Sir, well played!

Exalted! +1

anonymou5 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
I actually had to drop out 1 Target Lock and the Neural Jammer in order to fit in the Drone Controller. But it didn't matter as Eldar didn't really fire a shot. They just went straight for assault.

No, the Grimoire isn't going to get nerfed anytime soon. There's a 1/3 chance it will fail and when it does, daemons are probably going to lose that unit. Over the course of 1 game, you're going to fail 1 or 2 times and it'll probably be when you need it to work the most.

The guy in my meta who runs Demons runs them with Fateweaver for that very reason (well, and the Warp Storm reroll). He essentially never loses Grimoire, although he runs it on Hounds rather than Seekers. Or, if he wants to tie up something scary, on Fateweever (making him immortal). It's extremely brutal. His list is entirely different than yours, and almost as scary to play against (it lacks the pure damage output, but imo it's more reliable), which I think is a sign of a codex with good internal balance.

I've tried Fateweaver in a few games before and I must say that I am less than impressed with him. That probably is just due to my playstyle, however. I prefer an army in which all my expensive units are also big threats as well. Fateweaver is a large force-multiplier....but he really isn't a very scary threat. I much prefer the LoC who is a force multiplier as well as a huge threat (that guy can literally win a game by himself!). Besides, where's the fun in daemons without a bit of randomness? Then they actually become kind of boring.... (Heck, if I want reliability, I'd just play and crush everyone with my necrons. ) No, I prefer daemons with their ups and their downs. That's what makes them so fun and also a challenge to play, at least for me.

Theorius wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
I actually had to drop out 1 Target Lock and the Neural Jammer in order to fit in the Drone Controller. But it didn't matter as Eldar didn't really fire a shot. They just went straight for assault.

No, the Grimoire isn't going to get nerfed anytime soon. There's a 1/3 chance it will fail and when it does, daemons are probably going to lose that unit. Over the course of 1 game, you're going to fail 1 or 2 times and it'll probably be when you need it to work the most.

i personally thing 40k is lessened by these units with 2+ rerollable, it breaks the game. 3+ rerollable should be the best anything should be able to get RELIABLY

When a 400-500 point unit (your pink star) can weather 1000 pts of shooting from say a tau deathstar and lose barely anything....there is a problem. HECK you could buy a MINIMUM horror/seeker unit with no bells and whistles and it could survive 1k of tau shooting from the deathstar.

If the guy with the grimoire couldnt be in the unit he buffs then maybe, or he had to take a save or suffer a wound....needs some drawback a 1/3rd chance of failure is not enough.

I personally am HOPING they dont let it stack with the other invuln buffer thingy.

just my opinion!

I agree. Re-rollable 2++'s really do break the game. It is just stupid. Fortunately for daemon opponents, they have a 1 in 3 chance of failing and they can only put it on 1 unit. So just go after the units without the Grimoire's protection. Then when the Grimoire fails, go after the unit that is cursed. It's all about target prioritization and that is how you play against daemons.

Honestly, I feel that eldar is even worse. If they get Invisibility, they will be getting re-rollabe 2+ cover and not very many armies can deal with that. Only perhaps 3 armies can handle invisible, fortuned eldar - an army that gets lucky with Perfect Timing (and they still may die to Runes of Warding), Space Wolves with Rune Priests and Tau. For the other armies, you're out of luck as the eldar will get it on very reliably.

I think it would be more fair for the Grimoire to give +1 Inv on a 2+ or +2 Inv on a 4+. After all, you're talking about an army where almost every unit only has a 5++ save and most cover only grants a 5++ save. Otherwise, daemons actually become too fragile almost.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

ptlangley wrote:
Can't you just see it:

"Azreal: You are amazing.
Shadowsun: I ought to be, after 20 years.
Azreal: Oh, there's something I ought to tell you.
Shadowsun: Tell me.
Azreal: I'm not left-handed either."

Lol.

Can you really use Moral Support to re-roll successful hits/wounds/saves?

Well done with your game Jy2, we have simular experince and tastes in building our daemon armies, and I do agree when daemons get good dice they are very good, heck on Wednesday I had two daemon princes, non iron armed on the ground survive 3 doom scythes death rays (thats two tests each) thanks to one having 3++ from grimoire and both having re rolling invul's. Turn 4 of that game he had 3 flyers on the board vector struck life leeched and FF'ed all 3 and the last one was down to 1 hull point saved both FF shots and I failed to pen with the life leech shots. Lost 2 heralds and 20 horrors but ended the game with daemon princes and lord of change with no wounds

I do and would still run the 2++ on my 20 horror squad with 2 heralds, why? I do have very weak scoring in my list so I need that solid scoring unit