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I herd there was a Feast of Blades Qualifier tourney at A51 in the Dallas TX Area, so I decided to show up with Craftworld Avior.

The Tourney was a 3 Game 2000 Point Tourney that is a qualifier for the Feast of Blades tournament in Denver.

I brought a "non-conventional" Eldar list, but it suites my play style well and was ALOT of fun to play.

My List

Karandras (Big K)

JetFarseer, Warding, Fortune
7 Jetlocks on Bikes, enhance, Embolden

5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent cannons

5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent cannons

6 Striking Scorpians , Exarch with Claw
Wave Serpent Cannons

3 Guardian Jetbikes, Cannon
3 Guardian Jetbikes, Cannon

5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent with Scatter Lasers

5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent with Scatter Lasers

Fire Prism
Fire Prism




List Explanation

If you havent read any of my Batreps, I encourage you do because it explains my eldar playstyle, which is very aggressive.

The List above is Basic Mechdar. 2 Prisms for a str10 ap1 TL blast. Troop choices are standard with 4 scoring. Fire Dragons and their melta goodness is standard. The Jetseer council has Re-rollable 3+ armor saves with fortune, WS5 and INI5 with Enhance and can re-roll LD. The Jetseer council also gets 3 Str9 CC attacks on the charge. Karandras has 7 str8 PF attacks on the charge, and the striking scorpions support him.

Overall the list has the mobility of standard mechdar, but a Close Combat punch of 2 really strong units.

Game One

Game One I play Sarat's (sorry about spelling) Vulkan. I played his TAU at Railhead and hes one of my favorite opponents. He has a beutiful army and a great list, so I got ready for a tough game.

His List -

Libby- Force Sword, Psychic hood, Null Zone, Smite
Vulkan Hestan
Assult Terminators
Dred with CCW and Melta and flamer
3 Squads of 10 Tactical Marines in Rhino. 1 squad has 1 melta, 2 squads have flamers. Sarges have combi meltas.
2 Landspeeders with meltas
2 Vindicators

Mission

Deployment- Pitched
Primary - 4 Objectives
Secondary - Kill Points
Tertiary - there are 6 of them for every mission. Highest cost unit surviving, reserve 2 units, not going to ground, 3 units within 12" of your opponents board edge, finishing turn 5.

Deployment

there are 2 objecives in my backfield, and two to my left on my opponents side.

I deploy seer council in the center. I deploy jetbikes behind them as objective holders. I place DAVU serpents right. I place Fire dragons on the right and left center. I place Karandras and his wave serpent in the middle. I place fire prisms on a hill on the right with full view of the battlefield.




Sarat deploys heavy middle with a vidincator and land speeder on each flank. He takes advantage of cover.




Eldar Turn One

I win the roll the go first, and I opt to deploy and go first. This is mainly because I want fortune up on my jetseer squad without getting hooded first turn.

I Turbo boost Fire Dragons up on each side to get strikes in next turn. I turbo boost Karandras to the middle. I turbo Jetseer Right in order to charge vehicles, and to avoid an assult from his terminators and to avoid the flamestrom cannons that are ap3.




Shooting sees me stunning a Land Speeder and mabe causing one other effect. not much happened.

Salamanders Turn One

He Shuffles vindicators around to get shots. He Disembarks his Terminators but leaves the libby inside. moves his Landspeeder to get a shot. Immobolizes 1 or 2 of his rhinos on terrain. Shooting sees him shooting alot at my bikes with vindicators and such, and doing nothing. I had a pretty lucky turn avoiding alot of hits.






He drops a dred on my bikes. He causes 3 wounds with a TL flamer and I fail all 3 armor saves loosing the unit.



He assaults my fire dragon wave serpent and causes no effects.

Eldar Turn 2

This is where the game was won. I basically went for a HUGE strike and was able to take out some obscene amount of vehicles.

I try to fortune my bikes and he hood's it so it doesnt go off.

Bikes turbo boost away from dred on objective.


Karandras moves up to attack a rhino.


Fire Dragons get out to shoot a vindicator. Striking Scorpians disembark to trap the marines in the rhino when I blow it up. Bikes line up a multi assault on 3 tanks and try to trap marines in rhino. Serpent moves to get shots.


Multi Assault


Fire Dragons blow up vindacotor #1 on my left flank.


Karandras assaults a rhino on the left and destroys it killing a marine.


Bikes Multi Assault. Blow up Land speeder. Destroyed the Vindicator and the rhino as well. Caused effects to all 3, dont remember which.


My Striking Scorpions blow up the rhino killing 2 marines. The Marines fail their morale and are trapped and die. This is where the middle right rhino is.

Turn ends with me destroying 2 vindicators, 2 rhinos, and a land speeder, and a squad of space marines. not to shabby.

Salamanders turn 2

His Land Raider kills 4 Fire Dragons


His Land Speeder whipes the fire dragon squad on my left.


His tactical Squad on my left rapid fires kandras and gets him down to 1 wound.
His reserved Tactical squad comes in and rapid fires my un-fortuned jetbike squad killing 4 warlocks including the enhance.

Eldar Turn 3

I get fortune up with 4 bikes left. Jetseers move to assault the tactical squad.


Karandras Lines up to take out a tac squad by himself!


And in the last second he is aided by brothers of the scorpion aspect and they whipe the tac squad.


Game Concludes

After my turn 3 I was going to win objectives and secondary.....so we just played for fun until like turn 6.






I whipe the last tac squad. He blows up a wave serpent. I destroy the land speeder. I kill a couple terminators. I kill the libby. I control 2 objectives and contest the other 2. I have more kill points and a couple of the Tertiaries. Sorat ends with Vulkan, a Land Raider, Dred left.

Game One Recap

Really fun game.

Only mistake I made was putting fire dragons on a vindicator instead of a land raider....but that was the mistake.

Overall my deployment was great. My Turn 2 strike was able to cripple him pretty bad. I was really happy to see karandras and my seer council whipe through tactical squads. Overall I think I played a solid mechdar game, killing the magority of his army while keeping the magority of mine alive.

Game 2 Vs. Philip's Mechdar

Philip's List
Eldrad, 6 FootLocks with 4 destructors some spears and embolden and enhance.
5 Fire dragons
7 Pathfinders
5 DAVU
5 DAVU
11 DAVU with bladestorm
11 DAVU with bladestorm
3 Wave serpents with Serpents/Cannons
3 Falcons with Scatter Lasers and Holo Fields

Mission
Deployment- SpearHead.
Primary- Lateral Table Quarters (draw a line from corner to corner). Win the quarter based on # of units, troops count as 2. IE a tactical squad counts as 2, a land raider counts as one.
Secondary- Kill Points
Tertiary - same

Deployment

I win the roll and decided to go second full reserves. The game is Won with table quarters. I know that my opponent and I will probably have large amounts of armor late game, and I know that if I have the last turn I can out skimmer him and win the game.

He deploys in a really spaced out manner, and turbo boosts around eventually ending heavy right.

My Eldar Opponent has a decent list. He has a couple flaws here and there, but if he uses his list well it actually some what counters me. I take this game very seriously because I know that in order to win I need to out strategize him because Im not sure I can just roll over his list. One of the main problems is that he has Eldrad, with 3 holo fielded falcons. These are virtually impossible to kill. In an Eldar v. Eldar match up one of the biggest things is Netralizing his fire dragons, while allowing my own to have free reign.




Philip Turn One

Shuffles around

Avior Turn One

Full Reserves

Philip Turn Two

Shuffles around. Eldrad is in the center of his formation with 2 DAVU serpents with 11 in them reserved.

Avior Turn Two

I roll reserves, and get my seer council, both squads of dragons, and one jetbike squad.
I keep the jetbikes on the board edge to avoid sniper fire.
I turbo boost both fire dragons towards falcons, and I turbo my seer council as well. This is basically a pincer attack. If his skimmers move 6" and shoot all weapons, my seer council can go tear them apart. If they move 12" nothing dies. Either my fire dragons will get through, or my seer council will get through. I also have outflanked Karandras (So you can see how Ive somewhat cornered him in his backfield.




Philip Turn Three

He moves black falcon with his fire dragons 6" towards my fire dragon serpent. He moves a couple tanks around 6" to get optimum shots. He gets 1 wave serpent in with 11 DAVU.
He opens up, and through some incredible shooting and some decent saves I loose 5 warlocks from my seer council (They didnt have fortune up because they were rerserved).



Avior Turn Three

My Army goes crazy at the loss of their seer council brotheren.

I roll reserves and get Karandras and his scorpians on the right flank. I also get my last GJB Squad, 2 DAVU serpents, 1 Prism.
My Fire dragons get out to shoot and assault the black falcon middle.
My Fire Dragons get out to shoot and assault the falcon on the right in the ruins.
My Seer Council moves to multi assault the two falcons.
Karandras moves to Assault the Wave Serpent in the Backfield that moved 6".

My fire Dragons blow up the black falcon. Shooting results in 4 Fire Dragons of his dead.
My Fire dragons take 2 weapons off the falcon middle. My Seer Council in Assault takes off another two weapons from the third falcon.
Karandras and his Exarch Blow up the Wave Serpent with 11 DAVU inside killing 3 and brace for close combat Show Down with Eldrad.





Overall a pretty insane turn. I have fortune on my Jetbikes. Ive also taken out 4/6 of his tanks and neutralized his fire dragons. I have 7 skimmers sitting in my backfield, and I really have no idea how he plans to take them out. At this point I think ive won the game based on the amount of my army that is still mobile. not to mention He cant deal with Karndras, a seer council, 2 fire dragon squads, and scorpions. Something wont be dead and it will wreck havoc.

Philip Turn 4

He Fortunes eldrad's unit, and dooms my seer council and big K. He moves his council out of transport and moves towards my scorpions and big K.

He disembarks everything except for 1 squad of 11 dire avengers.

Eldrad and his unit Destructor my scorpions and kill a few. Squad of 11 bladestorm my scorpions. Two squads of 5 shoot at my seer council and do nothing. Overall through all his shooting I think he kills 5 Scorpions.

He then assaults eldrad and warlocks into Karndras killing the Exarch. Karndras responds by killing a warlock drawing combat.
He also assaults a 5 man DAVU unit into my seer council loosing two.



Avior turn 4

The Game could end turn 5, so I move things around to get into a centralized location. I move Jetbikes up and get ready to turbo boost.

Both my fire dragon squads are at 3 and at 5 strength. The squad of 3 moves to shoot and assault a wave serpent in middle. Squad at 5 strength moves to shoot at last wave serpent in backfield.
I shoot and kill his last fire dragon.
I shoot and whipe a squad of 5 DAVU from scatter and shuriken cannon fire.
Fire Dragons weapon destroy and stun his wave serpent in middle.
Fire Dragons immobolize his wave serpent on board edge.
Seer council kills 2 more DAVU.

Karndras wins combat by two, killing two warlocks.



Philip Turn 5

He Turbo boosts his tanks around.
His Squad of 10 DAVU assault my squad of 5 fire dragons and wins combat by 2 but my fire dragons hold.
His pathfinders shoot and kill two fire dragons bringing the squad down to one.
Seer council whipes the squad of 3 Dire Avengers.



Avior turn 5

I turbo boost things around and win the game by holding all quarters.

My last Fire Dragon blows up his wave serpent.
My seer council charges into the 8 Dire Avengers whiping them.
I kill a pathfinder with scatter laser fire.
Karandras goes down after fighting outnumbered vailiantly!







Game Recap

My hardest game of the day. Holo Fields Kept his falcons from dying, so I had them flying around which was moderatly annoying. I played against a pretty decent eldar list, and did well. Karnadras once again did amazing. I was able to negate his fire dragons, while allowing my own to get 3rd turn retalation strikes which is a pretty huge deal. I got hit pretty hard turn 3 with my un fortuned council, but they served there purpose and took out a vehicle and 3 squads of dire avengers.

Overall I got Primary, secondary, and a few tertiaries putting me at table 1 for the 3rd game.

Game 3 Vs. BrianB's Dark Angels

Brians List
Bilial
Chaplain
5 Termies with Hammers and shields and whatnot
5 Termies with Hammers and shields and whatnot
Land Raider Crusader
Land Raider redeemer
10 Tac Marines in Rhino
10 Tac Marines in Rhino
2 Land Speeder Storms with missiles and meltas.

Mission
Deployment - Dawn of War
Primary - Kill Points
Secondary - 5 Objectives
Tertiary - Same

Deployment

Im not excited for a kill points mission vs. Deathstar DA, but whatever thats life.

I win the roll and decide to go first, my goal is to get a lead on kill points and run away.

I put my seer council at Mid Field, and come on Turn One.

Brian brings everything on turn one, but reserves 2 rhinos with tac marines.

Avior Turn One

I have 2 squads of GJB on each flank, but on the board edge to avoid getting shot at and breaking off the board. That or behind cover.
I Turbo Kandras up the middle, and put fire dragons on each side of him.
Seer council turbo's left.
Fire Prisms come in right and left with clear shots on the board and on the board edge.
Davu Serpents come in Right.



Brian Turn One

Brings on Land Raider with squad of 5 terminators in the middle left. Brings on Land Raider with Libby and Belial far left to counter the seer council. Brings vindicator left behind cover. Brings both landspeeders in middle right.
He opens up with his entire army and I pass all my saves on the jetbikes, probably around 20. He also whiffs his anti-tank shots.



Avior Turn Two

I boost seer council right in order to avoid his deathstar.
Fire Dragons turbo boost Left to get into next turn melta with land raider.
Fire Dragons move to blow up middle land raider.
Scorpion serpent moves 12" forward.

I shuffle tanks around in backfield to get shots on landspeeders.

Shooting I blow up a land speeder storm and stun the other one. My Fire dragons blow up the land raider. I then shoot everything else I have into the terminators. I think he rolls snake eyes and looses two of them.



Brian Turn Two

He Turbo Boosts his land speeder storm to my mid field.
He moves his Land Raider with Deathstar 12".
His Terminators assault my fire dragons whiping them.

KP is 2-1 avior.



Avior Turn Three

I move my seer council 12" to assault his squad of 3 terminators. Kandras gets out of his transport to play with the terminators.
Fire Dragons get out to Melta Land Raider.
I shuffle around for shots.

Fire Dragons blow up the Land Raider.
I blow up the last land speeder storm.

In Assault he causes 2 wounds on Karandras and I kill two Terminators drawing combat.

Kill Points are now 4-1 Avior.






Brian Turn Three

He brings a rhino on far left, and one middle right.

He assaults my fire dragons and whipes them out.




Terminator combat sees the last terminator killed with Karndras staying alive, enraged he looks at a vindicator.



Kill Points 5-2 Avior

Avior Turn 4

Karandras moves to assault vindicator.
Jetseer council moves to assault the marines in the rhino middle right.
I shuffle things around to get shots.

I blow up the rhino with Cannon fire from Jetbikes (lol).

Seer council assaults the tactical squad, and Karndras assaults and blows up the vindicator.

Turn 4-7 Recap

The Game goes to turn 7, and Ill just re-cap it.

My seer council wins combat with the tactical squad, bringing kill points 8-3.

My opponent has a rhino, a tactical squad, and his Terminator Belial unit. Ive lost 2 squads of fire dragons and Karndras.

Like a good Eldar player, I move everything away, and we finish 3 rounds in probably like 5 minutes.








Game Recap

I win Primary, Secondary, and most tertiary.

Overall it was a textbook game. Fire Dragons went towards his land raiders. I killed whatever I could and then ran away.

My Dice were pretty good, my opponents were pretty bad. The only mistake he made was bringing in Belial far Left in order to counter my jetseer council, I dont think he anticipated me moving my seer council back to the right. If belial had been centralized to support the other terminator unit, Im not sure I would have won the primary.

Overall it was a great game, and Brian was fun to play against. The entire game was finished in like an hour and we had 0 rules disputes and it was like clock work.

Tournament Recap

I went 3-0 and Won the tournament that had around 12 people, I also qualified for the Feast of Blades tournament in Denver.

Overall it was alot of fun, and Im glad I went.

My List that I brought is a very non-standard eldar list. I dont think Ive EVER herd of a phoenix lord being used in competitive play. I think a seer council and Kandras is a SICK combination. Usually as an eldar player I cant really kill tactical squads and games are generally frusterating, but with those 2 units I was literally blowing through entire tac squads like it was a joke.

Its a REALLY fun list to play, and I think looking at it that its basically optimized.

As a final note I would like to say that I won a tournament fielding a phoenix lord, Nuff said rofl. Peace.

Its great to see reports with two nicely painted armies! I'm looking forward to the last 2 reports.

Smitty have you ever played on the East Coast? Your army looks very familiar.

Cool first game!

I'm very interested in how your Karandaras/Scorpion build pans out. I just tried a couple of games yesterday with Scorps/WS/Outflank option; mine didn't do that well.

Seeing how you essentially pinned your opponent in on turn 1 was very, very interesting. Makes me rethink a couple of strategies vs particular army builds.

Great report so far. Looking forward to rounds 2 and 3.

jesse wrote:Smitty have you ever played on the East Coast? Your army looks very familiar.

Ive wanted to a couple times, but as of yet I havent.

I wouldnt be surprised at all if there a couple alaitoc armies that look alot like mine.

bump

Smitty0305 wrote:The Jetseer council also gets 3 Str9 CC attacks on the charge.

Why do you think that?

I like the flexibility and knowing when to be aggressive. Karandaras was an interesting choice; closest I came was 2nd place in a tourney utilizing Maugan Ra. You did demonstrate the effectiveness of going first or second and definitely gives us Eldar players that there can still be some life in the codex.

Thanks for posting.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:The Jetseer council also gets 3 Str9 CC attacks on the charge.

Why do you think that?

Since his army list above doesn't list any singing spears I'll guess they all have witchblades. That gives them Witchblade, Shuriken Pistol for hth.
So we have 1 base attack + 1 extra CCW + 1 for charging = 3 attacks in a charge. The witchblades make them all Str 9.

Since he runs 7 of these, that's 21 str 9 attacks that can be spread pretty wide thanks to the big bike bases. Great for multi assaulting vehicles.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:The Jetseer council also gets 3 Str9 CC attacks on the charge.

Why do you think that?

Zrrr, because they do?

Against non-vehicles they just wound on a 2+

Grats on the win, look forward to seeing ya at FoB. I'll be running the Infinity stuff but I'll try to swing by and see your eldar. If I can find time maybe an Eldar civil war battle

Not to nitpick but you will want to clarify with chandler (guy running the invitational) on the seer council if you plan to run it since it's not WYSIWYG.

BlueDagger wrote:Grats on the win, look forward to seeing ya at FoB. I'll be running the Infinity stuff but I'll try to swing by and see your eldar. If I can find time maybe an Eldar civil war battle

Not to nitpick but you will want to clarify with chandler (guy running the invitational) on the seer council if you plan to run it since it's not WYSIWYG.

Not sure if im able to go to FoB but I want to.

And yea.....whychblades are sooo hard to model on bikes.

Kyrolon wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:The Jetseer council also gets 3 Str9 CC attacks on the charge.

Why do you think that?

Since his army list above doesn't list any singing spears I'll guess they all have witchblades. That gives them Witchblade, Shuriken Pistol for hth.
So we have 1 base attack + 1 extra CCW + 1 for charging = 3 attacks in a charge. The witchblades make them all Str 9.

Since he runs 7 of these, that's 21 str 9 attacks that can be spread pretty wide thanks to the big bike bases. Great for multi assaulting vehicles.

He never mentioned "against vehicles".

I love your army, and nice batreps.
Pic #3 had me worried though:



No. Just no.

great battle report.

but, I would never play an eldar/darkeldar army without flying stands for their skimmers, its basically cheating on so many levels.

Sallieman wrote:great battle report.

but, I would never play an eldar/darkeldar army without flying stands for their skimmers, its basically cheating on so many levels.

Look at my games, and find me an instance where I gained a cover or LOS advantage where 1 vertical inch would have effected the outcome.

If my opponents want them on bases , I put them on bases, but if they dont I find the bases unstable and poorly designed.

Btw I dont cheat.

Great Batrep!

I've never played Eldar, but now they look terrifying.

Smitty0305 wrote:

Sallieman wrote:great battle report.

but, I would never play an eldar/darkeldar army without flying stands for their skimmers, its basically cheating on so many levels.

Look at my games, and find me an instance where I gained a cover or LOS advantage where 1 vertical inch would have effected the outcome.

If my opponents want them on bases , I put them on bases, but if they dont I find the bases unstable and poorly designed.

Btw I dont cheat.

Your assuming my quarrel is with LoS when actually that would be the most minute problem of all.

If at any point the base wouldnt be able to rest in a certain position, then you wouldnt be able to land your skimmer there(example being in a gw ruin, the base wont steady there, but since you dont have any you could easily just balance the skimmers hull so it stays). Since you had no bases that problem could never arise. maybe this game there was no situations, but what about the game before, or the next game you play, or 20 games from now.

And yes technically you are cheating without bases! wether you think it or not. And just because a base is cumbersome to use doesnt allow someone to forfeit the use of it.

Sallieman wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:

Sallieman wrote:great battle report.

but, I would never play an eldar/darkeldar army without flying stands for their skimmers, its basically cheating on so many levels.

Look at my games, and find me an instance where I gained a cover or LOS advantage where 1 vertical inch would have effected the outcome.

If my opponents want them on bases , I put them on bases, but if they dont I find the bases unstable and poorly designed.

Btw I dont cheat.

Your assuming my quarrel is with LoS when actually that would be the most minute problem of all.

If at any point the base wouldnt be able to rest in a certain position, then you wouldnt be able to land your skimmer there(example being in a gw ruin, the base wont steady there, but since you dont have any you could easily just balance the skimmers hull so it stays). Since you had no bases that problem could never arise. maybe this game there was no situations, but what about the game before, or the next game you play, or 20 games from now.

And yes technically you are cheating without bases! wether you think it or not. And just because a base is cumbersome to use doesnt allow someone to forfeit the use of it.

Ohhh the internet.

You army looks awesome smitty!

I have to agree with sallieman though, the flying bases are really really important for game balance and the rules say you gotta have'm. As always if your opponent doesn't care in friendly games anything goes. Just sayin is all.

I can't see your pics (work firewalls block almost all hosting sites, please host on Dakka!) and I didn't see an answer to this question:

I put my seer council at Mid Field, and come on Turn One.

This was DoW deployment limiting you to 1 HQ and 2 Troops on the field. Did you deploy your Seer with the warlocks and if not, what squad was he paired with in reserve?

I like the list you're running - nice hybrid of seer council and mech eldar. As for Phoenix Lords being poor selections, I've seen Maugan Ra tear up, but he's largely considered to be the best of the bunch. I'm glad you prove that there's another exception to the rule when used wisely.

Bases are important, but not for what sallieman is claiming. There is a 'wobbly model' rule in the rulebook to address models that won't balance properly. It's not like the lack of base means there's no dangerous terrain test to be made.

Smitty0305 wrote:

Sallieman wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:

Sallieman wrote:great battle report.

but, I would never play an eldar/darkeldar army without flying stands for their skimmers, its basically cheating on so many levels.

Look at my games, and find me an instance where I gained a cover or LOS advantage where 1 vertical inch would have effected the outcome.

If my opponents want them on bases , I put them on bases, but if they dont I find the bases unstable and poorly designed.

Btw I dont cheat.

Your assuming my quarrel is with LoS when actually that would be the most minute problem of all.

If at any point the base wouldnt be able to rest in a certain position, then you wouldnt be able to land your skimmer there(example being in a gw ruin, the base wont steady there, but since you dont have any you could easily just balance the skimmers hull so it stays). Since you had no bases that problem could never arise. maybe this game there was no situations, but what about the game before, or the next game you play, or 20 games from now.

And yes technically you are cheating without bases! wether you think it or not. And just because a base is cumbersome to use doesnt allow someone to forfeit the use of it.

Ohhh the internet.

whats that supposed to mean?

Sarigar wrote:Bases are important, but not for what sallieman is claiming. There is a 'wobbly model' rule in the rulebook to address models that won't balance properly. It's not like the lack of base means there's no dangerous terrain test to be made.

I dissagree good sir, the qualifying criteria for a skimmer being able to move and land somewhere is that it actually can.

pg 71

"A skimmer can even end its move over impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the model on top of it"

It's a lot harder to do that with a base... and that's sorta the point. Without the base you can balance it on a lot of terrain pieces you wouldn't normally be able to. Claiming wobbly model syndrome won't work unless your opponent agrees and that's not very likely in a competative setting.

As far as the wobbly model syndrome, I'll quote it for you

pg 13
"Sometimes you may find that a particular piece of terrain makes it hard to put a model exactly where you want. If you delicately balance it in place, it is very likely to fall as soon as somebody nudges the table, leaving your beautifully painted miniature chipped or even broken. In cases like this we find it is perfectly acceptable to leave the model in a safer position, AS LONG AS BOTH PLAYERS HAVE AGREED and know its "actual" location. If later on your enemy is considering shooting at the model, you will have to hold it back in the proper place so he can check line of sight. Of course if you prefer things to be completely clear and exact, then stick to simple, flat terrain!"

So basically, wobbly model syndrome is a suggestion for how to solve a potential problem, it's some sort of entitlement to fudge model placement.

There is nothing that states that if the model's base can't balance there flawlessly then you can't place the model. It does state that if the model can be placed there then it can land there. This means that if the base would technically fit there and be the majority stable then there is no issue with stating that that is where the model is, but not risking your model coming crashing down due to stability issues from poor design.

That being said, you should really use the bases, but I have harped on you about that one in the past. Really no excuse for having them that well painted and cutting the corner on something as important as the bases.

Gavin Thorne wrote:I can't see your pics (work firewalls block almost all hosting sites, please host on Dakka!) and I didn't see an answer to this question:

I put my seer council at Mid Field, and come on Turn One.

This was DoW deployment limiting you to 1 HQ and 2 Troops on the field. Did you deploy your Seer with the warlocks and if not, what squad was he paired with in reserve?

I like the list you're running - nice hybrid of seer council and mech eldar. As for Phoenix Lords being poor selections, I've seen Maugan Ra tear up, but he's largely considered to be the best of the bunch. I'm glad you prove that there's another exception to the rule when used wisely.

I posted my Farseer with his Warlock Retinue at mid field Pre-Turn 1 as my 1 HQ selection. They are 1 squad so they count as the 1 HQ unit.

I then brought every thing else from the board edge turn 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BlueDagger wrote:There is nothing that states that if the model's base can't balance there flawlessly then you can't place the model. It does state that if the model can be placed there then it can land there. This means that if the base would technically fit there and be the majority stable then there is no issue with stating that that is where the model is, but not risking your model coming crashing down due to stability issues from poor design.

That being said, you should really use the bases, but I have harped on you about that one in the past. Really no excuse for having them that well painted and cutting the corner on something as important as the bases.

As far as the flying bases go. I have them in my case. My opponents have the option of flying bases.

Id rather the discussion be about something else like tactics, movements, or actual decisions I made on unit selection and actual unit play and useage during the games.

If you want to talk about flying bases thats fine, but im going to ignore it because quite frankly it doesnt matter.

Good reps! Interesting to see Eldar win

Crablezworth wrote:

Sarigar wrote:Bases are important, but not for what sallieman is claiming. There is a 'wobbly model' rule in the rulebook to address models that won't balance properly. It's not like the lack of base means there's no dangerous terrain test to be made.

I dissagree good sir, the qualifying criteria for a skimmer being able to move and land somewhere is that it actually can.

pg 71

"A skimmer can even end its move over impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the model on top of it"

It's a lot harder to do that with a base... and that's sorta the point. Without the base you can balance it on a lot of terrain pieces you wouldn't normally be able to. Claiming wobbly model syndrome won't work unless your opponent agrees and that's not very likely in a competative setting.

As far as the wobbly model syndrome, I'll quote it for you

pg 13
"Sometimes you may find that a particular piece of terrain makes it hard to put a model exactly where you want. If you delicately balance it in place, it is very likely to fall as soon as somebody nudges the table, leaving your beautifully painted miniature chipped or even broken. In cases like this we find it is perfectly acceptable to leave the model in a safer position, AS LONG AS BOTH PLAYERS HAVE AGREED and know its "actual" location. If later on your enemy is considering shooting at the model, you will have to hold it back in the proper place so he can check line of sight. Of course if you prefer things to be completely clear and exact, then stick to simple, flat terrain!"

So basically, wobbly model syndrome is a suggestion for how to solve a potential problem, it's some sort of entitlement to fudge model placement.

Agreed about impassible terrain. Where was the impassible terrain anywhere in the report? Maybe I missed it. I've played in many competitive events and have never witnessed anyone not abiding to wobbly model syndrome as there are a multitude of reasons why some models won't stand properly in terrain.


Smitty made it clear in this and past reports that if the base becomes an issue with an opponent, he places them on bases.

The rules support skimmers ending their movement in difficult terrain, thus can be placed as such. Wobby model syndrome just alleviates some issues with the wide array of terrain that is used.

I understand both sides of the argument. My original bases for my scratch built wave serpents (before that carried a model) are close to the ground due to the wobbly factor. This was a non issue in 3rd and 4th Ed rules. I rarely have a problem with 5th Ed as well however I carry one base that I use for height measurement and use that when my opponent requests a measurement.

Not having a base due to the wobbly factor can hurt you as well, considering that that extra inch in height will give a falcon/wave serpent secondary weapon (as well as the shuriken cannon on the jet bikes) an chance to fire at your opponent.

I always discuss the situation in game play with my opponent. I really hate to see models get damaged just because of Rules as Written.

That is how I take care the situation. If my opponent agree or disagrees then that is fine by me.

Smitty0305 wrote:

Gavin Thorne wrote:I can't see your pics (work firewalls block almost all hosting sites, please host on Dakka!) and I didn't see an answer to this question:

I put my seer council at Mid Field, and come on Turn One.

This was DoW deployment limiting you to 1 HQ and 2 Troops on the field. Did you deploy your Seer with the warlocks and if not, what squad was he paired with in reserve?

I like the list you're running - nice hybrid of seer council and mech eldar. As for Phoenix Lords being poor selections, I've seen Maugan Ra tear up, but he's largely considered to be the best of the bunch. I'm glad you prove that there's another exception to the rule when used wisely.

I posted my Farseer with his Warlock Retinue at mid field Pre-Turn 1 as my 1 HQ selection. They are 1 squad so they count as the 1 HQ unit.

I then brought every thing else from the board edge turn 1.

I think, Smitty, that may have been an error. DOW allows a single HQ unit to be placed. The farseer and warlocks are two distinct units when selecting what to deploy. Since the warlocks are not a retinue (there may only be 1 or 2 left in the whole game) they are their own unit for deployment. Remember this applies to all other HQ "combos" as well. No Chapter Master + honor guard etc. It also extends to transports, since even a dedicated transport is a unit.