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Vulcan 190 pts
Tac Squad- meltagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, Rhino 220 pts
Tac Squad- meltagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, Rhino 220 pts
Tac Squad- meltagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, Rhino 220 pts
6x Sternguard- 2x heavyflamer, 4x combi-melta, Rhino 225 pts
6x Sternguard- 2x heavyflamer, 4x combi-melta, Rhino 225 pts
Dreadnaught- 2x twin-linked autocannons 125 pts
Predator- lascannon sponsons 120 pts
Predator- lascannon sponsons 120 pts
Predator- lascannon sponsons 120 pts
Landspeeder- mm/heavyflamer 70 pts
Landspeeder- mm/heavyflamer 70 pts
Landspeeder- mm/heavyflamer 70 pts

This is the list I want my counts as Salamanders to eventually become. Please tell me if there's any glaring weakness or if it's a solid list. Thanks.

I'd drop the heavy flamers from the sternguard. It stops them being mobile, and no-ones going to stand next to them voluntarily.

Heavyflamers are assault weapons so i can still move and fire them.

woodbok wrote:I'd drop the heavy flamers from the sternguard. It stops them being mobile, and no-ones going to stand next to them voluntarily.

Heavy flamers are assault weapons.

Ninja'd!

Dammit. I seem to remember a time where heavy weapons where heavy.

So what do you guys think about the list. I really miss my hammenator unit in this list but i think it's my most competitive list to date.

If you're running vulkan then a squad of hammernatirs is almost required. The TLAC dread is lost in this list, drop it or throw it in a pod with MM DCCW. The sternguard are good but drop pods suit them better. Actually if you have no termies then I would suggest going all DP.

The dreadnaught is for long range transport busting as you can never have to much (well almost never). I would like to have My LandRaiderCrusader in the list but people always yell at me about only putting 1 squad of terminators with 1 landraider in the list. The most common replys I get are either run 2 landraiders or non at all. And I don't really like the idea of running 2 landraiders in 2k because you can't fit much else in the list then. So I made a list without any landraiders.

TH/SS Termies are an auto include with Vulkan. There is no reason to not be fielding them as they are the best combat unit in the entire book. You're not getting the full effectiveness out of him if you don't field them.

I too don't like running Dual Raider since like you said, you sink too many points into them. I still run 1 Raider though, and lemme tell you, there's a reason they're an auto-include at this point level. The fact that Vulkan is basically a TH/SS (save wise) himself but strikes at I5 is insanely awesome, plus his relic blade is master-crafted and he has digital weapons. He's going to be hitting a lot and wounding a lot on MEQs.

I personally don't like running Sternguard with Vulkan because they really don't add much to the list that it doesn't already have, and their combat skills aren't so hot either.


Also, change your Tac Squads to MM instead of a ML. There's going to be people coming in here trying to prove me wrong about the choice, but here's why:

Normally you place your objectives midfield. The MM is TL and is AP1. AP1 is far superior as it's only a -1 to glance instead of -2 on a ML, and you're absolutely fine with hordes considering you have so many heavy flamers (8 to be exact). Your Tac squads sweep a 24" distance of vehicle denial.

Vulcan 190 pts
Tac Squad- meltagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, Rhino 220 pts
Tac Squad- meltagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, Rhino 220 pts
Tac Squad- meltagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, Rhino 220 pts
6x Sternguard- 2x heavyflamer, 4x combi-melta, Rhino 225 pts
6x Sternguard- 2x heavyflamer, 4x combi-melta, Rhino 225 pts
Dreadnaught- 2x twin-linked autocannons 125 pts
Predator- lascannon sponsons 120 pts
Predator- lascannon sponsons 120 pts
Predator- lascannon sponsons 120 pts
Landspeeder- mm/heavyflamer 70 pts
Landspeeder- mm/heavyflamer 70 pts
Landspeeder- mm/heavyflamer 70 pts

This is your best list to date and is exactly what I wanted to see.

5 Melta/Rhino units threatening both mech and infantry in the midfield.
7 anti-tank/transport units sitting in the back.
3 tank blocking/suicide melta units with a wide threat range.

My only concern is that your Land Speeders are going to have trouble getting cover while still being useful. Typhoons match well with Predators because the formar can hide behind the latter and get a permanent cover save, while the MM/HF variety needs to be a lot closer to the action to be useful.

This notion of TH/SS Terminators being mandatory is nonsense. Are they nice units? Sure. Does every list need them? No.

I ran a Vulkan list with a single Land Raider for a very long time. It was good at beating the bad players who didn't know how to stop a Land Raider, but sucked against opponents who did.

The above list is a more balanced, TAC list that takes advantage of Vulkans special rules and doesn't crumble when a single unit is lost.

Thanks unbeliever87. I took all the advice I had previosly gotten on my other Vulcan threads and built this list. I play alot against Gornall and he's a really good player, I find my land raiders don't last long against him. Maybe with this list I will finally win a game. Now the tough part getting all the models.

Vulcan 190 pts
Tac Squad- meltagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, Rhino 220 pts
Tac Squad- meltagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, Rhino 220 pts
Tac Squad- meltagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, Rhino 220 pts
7x Sternguard- 2x heavyflamer, 4x combi-melta, 1x combi-flamer Rhino 255 pts
7x Sternguard- 2x heavyflamer, 4x combi-melta, 1x combi-flamer Rhino 255 pts
Predator- lascannon sponsons 120 pts
Predator- lascannon sponsons 120 pts
Predator- lascannon sponsons 120 pts
Landspeeder- typhoon missile launcher 90 pts
Landspeeder- typhoon missile launcher 90 pts
Landspeeder- typhoon missile launcher 90 pts

Is this a little better. Leaves me 10 pts to work with.

AresX8 wrote:TH/SS Termies are an auto include with Vulkan. There is no reason to not be fielding them as they are the best combat unit in the entire book. You're not getting the full effectiveness out of him if you don't field them.

I too don't like running Dual Raider since like you said, you sink too many points into them. I still run 1 Raider though, and lemme tell you, there's a reason they're an auto-include at this point level. The fact that Vulkan is basically a TH/SS (save wise) himself but strikes at I5 is insanely awesome, plus his relic blade is master-crafted and he has digital weapons. He's going to be hitting a lot and wounding a lot on MEQs.

If you don't want to run a Land Raider you don't have to. I had great success with 10 TH/SS terminators walking across the field or utilizing GoI, you'd need to add a librarian for that of course.

I actually disagree about what you're saying with Vulkan. I didn't like putting him in with Terminators because he doesn't add that much to the unit. Sure he has a 2+3+ I5 Str6 blade, sounds great on paper. But he only has 3 attacks base, 4 on the charge isn't that much better, and he gets to reroll ONE failure to hit and ONE failure to wound. Against most MEQ units he'll cause 2-4 wounds but if he is in with TH/SS termies he will most likely be going up against the your opponents hammer unit not regular Marines. Vulkan excels at killing off regular Marines, Guard, anything with a basic statline, and his heavy flamer helps with this role. That is why Vulkan is better utilized as a buffer to a Tac squad, or Sternguard Squad. He buffs their lack of CC prowess and fits in with the type of enemies those units would go after. Tac/Sternguard squads don't go after Hammer units, they go after normal units while Hammernators should be going after other Hammer units. Vulkan definitely helps take out regular units more than hammer units.

Sternguard are actually a good unit to pair with Vulkan. Although I would say a 10 man squad in Drop pod with 5 combi-melta 3 combi-flamer and 2 heavy flamers with Vulkan. You drop and combat squad, use the MGs to pop a transport and the twin linked flamers to roast whatever is inside. You should bear in mind that you need to position the two combat squads wisely. You want to give the flamer squad two possible targets should your melta fail to do its job and you don't want to allow your flamer squad to be blocked from using all those templates by the melta squad nor have the flamer squad giving cover saves to vehicles by being in the way of the melta group. It takes once or twice to practice it but the results can be fantastic.

ML and MM for tac squads in a Vulkan list really boils down to personal playstyle. I often took ML on squads I put in Razorbacks because I would combat squad and leave the ML in the back field. If I wasn't running any RBs I would take MM because they are better in the mid field as has already been pointed out.

If you put a 10 man sternguard unit in a droppod thats a 345 pt unit not including vulcan thats awfully expensive for a suicide unit don't you think?

starraptor wrote:If you put a 10 man sternguard unit in a droppod thats a 345 pt unit not including vulcan thats awfully expensive for a suicide unit don't you think?

Only if you use the unit foolishly. It generally requires 2 other drop pods in the list to use effectively. Like I said it takes a bit of practice to get it right but once you've mastered it the tactic is so effective it is nearly ridiculous. It certainly isn't for everybody/every play style.

unbeliever87 wrote:

Vulcan 190 pts
Tac Squad- meltagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, Rhino 220 pts
Tac Squad- meltagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, Rhino 220 pts
Tac Squad- meltagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, Rhino 220 pts
6x Sternguard- 2x heavyflamer, 4x combi-melta, Rhino 225 pts
6x Sternguard- 2x heavyflamer, 4x combi-melta, Rhino 225 pts
Dreadnaught- 2x twin-linked autocannons 125 pts
Predator- lascannon sponsons 120 pts
Predator- lascannon sponsons 120 pts
Predator- lascannon sponsons 120 pts
Landspeeder- mm/heavyflamer 70 pts
Landspeeder- mm/heavyflamer 70 pts
Landspeeder- mm/heavyflamer 70 pts

This is your best list to date and is exactly what I wanted to see.

5 Melta/Rhino units threatening both mech and infantry in the midfield.
7 anti-tank/transport units sitting in the back.
3 tank blocking/suicide melta units with a wide threat range.

My only concern is that your Land Speeders are going to have trouble getting cover while still being useful. Typhoons match well with Predators because the formar can hide behind the latter and get a permanent cover save, while the MM/HF variety needs to be a lot closer to the action to be useful.

This notion of TH/SS Terminators being mandatory is nonsense. Are they nice units? Sure. Does every list need them? No.

I ran a Vulkan list with a single Land Raider for a very long time. It was good at beating the bad players who didn't know how to stop a Land Raider, but sucked against opponents who did.

The above list is a more balanced, TAC list that takes advantage of Vulkans special rules and doesn't crumble when a single unit is lost.

What happens when he gets assaulted (Which he will be considering he's running a short-ranged list to take advantage of Vulkan)? The power of the list is in shooting, and he loses Combat Tactics when taking Vulkan. He has no PFs in any Tac/Sternguard squad, so he won't be able to at least kill something.

MM/HF Speeders are suicide units; their chief objective is to take out AV14 by deep striking in. Expecting them to live is giving too much credit to them.

It's very good. I'm not a big fan of the Heavy Flamers though; Vulkan means that regular flamers work just as well as heavy flamers, so I think you can take combi-flamers instead which still lets you retain special ammunition for the whole squad.

Combi-Flamers are fine anyway. Tank shock + Twin linked + special ammunition from the rest of the squad means that you shouldn't be needing more than a single shot. I've never used a flamer more than once in a single game anyway, they either cripple the horde in a single volley or die the next turn.

What happens when he gets assaulted

He loses a unit? Big deal, the beauty of min/max lists is that your individual units are so cheap, and you have so much redundancy everywhere else, that losing a single unit doesn't really matter. It's the complete opposite of a Land Raider list. Shocking how two lists with the same HQ can play differently, right?

MM/HF Speeders are suicide units; their chief objective is to take out AV14 by deep striking in. Expecting them to live is giving too much credit to them.

True. You don't need three of them to do this however, particularly when you have 5-6 Melta/Rhino units on the field already.

Vulcan 190 pts
Librarian- nullzone, avenger 100 pts
Tac Squad- meltagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, Rhino 220 pts
Tac Squad- meltagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, Rhino 220 pts
Tac Squad- meltagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, Rhino 220 pts
6x Sternguard- 3x combi-melta, 2x combi-flamer Rhino 210 pts
6x Sternguard- 3x combi-melta, 2x combi-flamer Rhino 210 pts
Predator- lascannon sponsons 120 pts
Predator- lascannon sponsons 120 pts
Predator- lascannon sponsons 120 pts
Landspeeder- typhoon missile launcher 90 pts
Landspeeder- typhoon missile launcher 90 pts
Landspeeder- typhoon missile launcher 90 pts

2k on the dot

I like it, though I don't think Heavy Fkamers are such a good diea with Vulkan. It's not like Dakka, of which you can't ever have enough. It's more like... Heads! One head os fine, two may work, but eventualy you'll have so much heads you wont' be able to walk properly! also, if you have different minds, they'll probably start fighting each other and biting their ears. Anyways...

The difference between this list and my lists are mianly the Predators. I'd rather throw in some Assault Termies with Vulkan. I know it isn't the best choice, but it feels right! If Vulkan was down there, he'd be surrounded by his best men! The elite! The first company! The guys with the freaking Tactical Dreadnought Armor and Thunder Hammers! Yes, I know Salamanders don't use too much Fast Attack and therefore shouldn't go in Land Speeders, but I want my lists to be good! I have to sacrifice the fluffy side sometimes, okay!? Shut up! I don't want to hear it! STAY AWAY FROM ME!

Don't get me wrong TH/SS Termies are nice I just feel that against my Most Hated Rival (LoL my best friend Gornall) They and their ride die before they do anything spectacular. So I came up with a list where if any single unit died I wouldn't feel the hurt to much.

:O You didn't tell us you had a rival in mind! Why didn't you tell us? Do we mean that little to you? After all we've done to you?

Anyways, what are you up against? What does he use? Full plasma, I guess? He's IG, right? If he can take out Termies so easy, he must have. But they'd still have their 3++ save... Okay, what is he running?

He's running

HQ
Draigo
Coteaz

Troops
5 Pallies with 2 MC Pyscannons/Wound Shenanigans (325 pts)
5 GKSS with Pyscannons and Psyback
5 GKSS with Pyscannons and Psyback
3 Warrior Acolytes with Psyback
3 Warrior Acolytes with Psyback
3 Warrior Acolytes with Psyback

Elites
5 Purifiers with Hammer and 2 Pyscannons and Psyback
5 Purifiers with Hammer and 2 Pyscannons and Psyback

Heavy
Pysfleman
Pysfleman
Naked Dreadknight

just the weight of fire takes them down and rending str 7 weapons tend to imobilize my land raiders alot plus we play with alot of terrain which also imobilizes my land raiders alot.

Against GKs... Th/SS Termies in LR are the best! For one GKs is kind of weak in terms shooting against AV14.

TH/SS Termies+Vulkan+Librarian= Dead GKs
TH/SS Termies+Vulkan+Librarian= Dead Purifiers
TH/SS Termies+Vulkan+Librarian= Dead Dreadknight
TH/SS Termies+Vulkan+Librarian= Dead Paladins

The key is to not get your termies into a bad position... like getting sprayed in a hail of stormbolters and psycannons. So I would drop the dread, a sternguard squad, a predator and maybe landspeeder for the termies, LR, and the librarian.

...
...
GAKKING. GREY. KNIGHTS. FUUUUUUUUU!!!

Okay, it's time to feth his gak up. You need to get some nice Demolishers. Those things feth their gak up good. You won't be using plasmas, but Meltas. It goes with your guy. The problem is getting too close... Stay the feth away form his CC units, take them down with demolishers. Take Land Speeders with MM to gain mobility and overcome the terrain. The ML in your Tacs won't do gak, give them MM. Flamers wont' do gak against the knights. They may be donkey-caves, bt they have nice gear. Your demolishers will be the most important part of your taskforce. Try taking out the anti-tank weapons so you can get your transports close fast.

Try taking out the anti-tank weapons so you can get your transports close fast.

This is quite possibly the worst piece of advice I have seen all week. His regular opponent is a mech based GK list, and your suggestion is to remove anti-tank wepaons and get closer to him.
Hint 1: You need anti-tank weapons to kill tanks, which his entire army is made up of. No, a Demolisher cannon doesn't count, see below.
Hint 2: GK are better than Vulkan lists at short/mid range. You don't want to be within 24" of them.

Your latest iteration is good, you just need to know how to play against your friends GK. Don't be agressive; stick back and use your Predators/Typhoons to take out his Dreadnoughts and whatever Razorbacks you can, then move in and concentrate on one squad at a time. Those Paladins are going to be a pain...sacrifice one or two Rhinos to block them in so you can conentrate on dismantling the rest of his army, then deal with them with your mobile meltas and lascannons.

I say keep the Heavy flamers, I've seen them work well against pretty much everything

I like your troops. Specifically I like the fact that there's three full squads and they're mounted. That'll work well with the speeders because it will give you the mobility to draw fire/ harass as you see fit.

As for the rival list you look good compared to it. More numbers and just as maneuverable. I'd prioritize the Dreads first and then try to avoid the Paladins. Hit his warriors and strike squads the hardest, they're relatively small and no troops means no objectives.

So looks like I won't be able to complete my list before I move. So Gornall is safe from it's wrath (untill I come and visit him that is). Any way the area I'm moving to is Watertown Ny. I use to live there 6 months ago so I happen to know there is a local gaming group (YAY). From what I remember Tau was very popular up there and so is Eldar. But there's a good variety. Like Nids, Horde Orks, Marines were starting to get popular (weird right that it wasn't already), Necrons. And a guy who litterally bought a new army every payday (Darn those G.I.s) So I was wondering how my list would fair against some of those army's plus just how it would hold up in an unknown setting period.

GK die like regular marines. So take the things in a Vulkan list that work against regular Marines. I played several GK players at our local FLGS with my Salamanders and only lost 1 game, this is what I took at 2k.

Vulkan
Libby in TDA with SS GoI, NZ

10 TH/SS Terminators
10 TH/SS Terminators

Tac Squad MG, MM, PF, Combimelta Rhino
Tac Squad MG, MM, PF, Combimelta Rhino

Vindicator w/ Siege Shield
Vindicator w/ Siege Shield
Vindicator w/ Siege Shield

It is redundant and he can't ignore 20 TH/SS terminators or the 3 Vindicators. It will force him to decide just what to go after, either decision is a bad one. Another route is to load up on Flamers/Meltas like you did. TL Flamers are awesome against marines, do they ignore armor? No, but they cause enough wounds that he is going to fail armor saves.

I like your list and all but it's exactly the type of list I'm trying to stay away from. By that I mean lists that put all their eggs in 1 bascket. I'm assuming your deepstriking those terminators what happens when you mishap which with that big of a group it's very likly to. At least on the boards I play on with all the terrain we have on it. And in objective based games with only 2 tac squads I feel it's going to be hard to win. We play the nova format alot so every game has obj as one of the win conditions in it. And it's come down to in the past the last win condition him having 1 more obj then me while I was winning in the main condition but not by enough darn kill points having to win by 3.

unbeliever87 wrote:

Try taking out the anti-tank weapons so you can get your transports close fast.

This is quite possibly the worst piece of advice I have seen all week. His regular opponent is a mech based GK list, and your suggestion is to remove anti-tank wepaons and get closer to him.
Hint 1: You need anti-tank weapons to kill tanks, which his entire army is made up of. No, a Demolisher cannon doesn't count, see below.
Hint 2: GK are better than Vulkan lists at short/mid range. You don't want to be within 24" of them.

Your latest iteration is good, you just need to know how to play against your friends GK. Don't be agressive; stick back and use your Predators/Typhoons to take out his Dreadnoughts and whatever Razorbacks you can, then move in and concentrate on one squad at a time. Those Paladins are going to be a pain...sacrifice one or two Rhinos to block them in so you can conentrate on dismantling the rest of his army, then deal with them with your mobile meltas and lascannons.

Oh my God Emperor. You completely misunderstood me. When I said "take out" I meant KILL and I meant for him to kill the other guy's anti-tank!

starraptor wrote:I like your list and all but it's exactly the type of list I'm trying to stay away from. By that I mean lists that put all their eggs in 1 bascket. I'm assuming your deepstriking those terminators what happens when you mishap which with that big of a group it's very likly to. At least on the boards I play on with all the terrain we have on it. And in objective based games with only 2 tac squads I feel it's going to be hard to win. We play the nova format alot so every game has obj as one of the win conditions in it. And it's come down to in the past the last win condition him having 1 more obj then me while I was winning in the main condition but not by enough darn kill points having to win by 3.

I never deep strike my terminators, with the exception of using GoI. 20 of them are resilient enough to make it across the board to whatever needs destroying. I have found that either through combat squads or ensuring that the terminators are contesting the enemy objectives that I can win objective missions. Against GK I will normally focus on trying to table my opponent first, they are just too good to attempt to win while leaving some of them alive, especially Paladins and Purifiers. YMMV but I have rarely lost a game when taking 20 TH/SS terminators.