Looking to get into fantasy...

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**bombboy1252**

Hey I've been playing 40K for a while and was looking into fantasy, so I had a few questions I wanted to ask

-How differently do the 2 games play. I know in fantasy you move the guys in big square movement trays not individually.

-Does it use the 40k "points" system so you know you're playing a game with the same sized force.

-is their a general "good guys" faction like 40k has the boring space marines that always win, is their a fantasy counterpart for them?

-what race should I play, I like "evil" armies, but I like a "sophisticated" evil, you know...the guys who drink tea while they dismember you kind of evil.

If I could get some help before getting the main rulebook and an army book, I would be very thankful.

**cowpow16**

You get points as well in fantasy to make it even.

You could say there is the empire but they are not really boring in the sense of they are all the same they are more like imperial guard with more options and can win without being over powered adn broken.
There are lots of good guys lizard men HE Empire Bretonnia dwarfs and wood elves so there is lots to choose from adn they all have different units that are all very effective depending on the army build.

There is an added phase which is the magic phase where magic is cast or attempted to be cast.

Shooting is very different in the sense if how it is done and who can do it but its nothing you cant get used to.

Comabt also a little different but it all clicks fairly soon.

I suggest dark elves they are aware that they are evil and in their fluff ya they are evil and smart (fanatical but smart) some are just crazy but you cant be evil and not have the occasional crazy guy.
Avoid beastmen if you want the tea drinkers as well as green skins (since green skins just like in 40k not too smart but quite punchy).
Skaven are not too bad they may be rats but rats with a plan they dont drink tea but the elite are civilized you could say.

Daemons are daemons.

Vampire counts the vampires are the only ones with a brain pretty much so they make up for the armies lack of brainzzzz but im not sure they get together for tea.

Woc are cool but the smart ones dont drink tea and they eventually go crazy and turn into a spawn.

Thems be my thoughts.

**bombboy1252**

Thanks cowpow, I was a little worried if I got into fantasy that I wouldn't be able to learn BOTH sets of rules, as I'm still new to 40k as well. and I was thinking vampire counts, but the dark elves seem better suited for what I want in my army, and if I'm not mistaken they had the model that made me want to get into miniature gaming, I believe it was a special character who was mounted on a bad-a** dragon.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
whoa, just realized, did you say lizard men are GOOD, they just seem like they would be a bad guy army.

**cowpow16**

THey have a new plastic dragon which looks awesome and comes with some cool extra bits to build a a sorcerers or a dread lord.

Lizards are good guys i was a little surprised but their fluff proves it.

DE is something you would enjoy more from what you wrote.
They have different units where as VC have skeles grave guard adn zombies oh and ghouls woot.
But ya I suggest give the DE book a skim its pretty cool.

The rules are not too bad the main thing is the pre measuring you cant do that in 40k but thats the main thing but its not a hard thing to do both rules are some what similar especially in general how fighting works and such.

**bombboy1252**

I'm going to make a dark elves army with lots of the guys on raptors.........their friggen COOL, oh and the dragon

**Cerebrium**

Yep, Lizardmen are classed as good. They don't particularly like most of the other races, but they were made specifically to fight chaos, so that makes them "good".

**bombboy1252**

..........why were lizards made to fight chaos?? Just seems weird to me. Seems like elves would be a more...made to fight chaos, kind of army.

**GalacticZ**

The vast majority of goodly races were created by the Old Ones. A race of super advanced beings that preceeded all other races in warhamer. The Lizardmen were their first attempt at creating a new species of life forms. The lizardmen adored their creators and worshiped them like gods. Eventually, the power source that the old ones tapped into, now know as the realm of chaos, became corrupted and twisted and entities of chaos poured from rifts between dimensions to attempt to destroy the old ones, the lizardmen were the Old Ones first lines of defense. My lore might have some holes in it, but thats the jist of it.

This will explain it better to you; Since I know my lore is not perfect.

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Old_One

**cowpow16**

Hose little panzies can't stand up to chaos.
Lizards do a better job.

My friend also just started DE and said the same thing about the cold ones and the dragon.

Enjoy the army.

**DukeRustfield**

Lizardmen came long before the Chaos became Chaos-y. They were the first race created by the Old Ones and were instituted to create the Great Plan--what that is, who knows. But then the gates blew up, the Old Ones vanished and the Lizardmen went all rambo on Chaos because they were interfering with the Great Plan.

Huh. Looking at the BRB timeline it seems the Old Ones came at 5600, made the races, then at 5900 the gates blew up. Seems like it was a lot longer than that, but I guess when you're Old Ones you get a lot done in a short period of time. But Warriors of Chaos don't begin to exist until >5900.

BTW, Ogres were the last race created by the Old Ones. Which shows they learned from their mistakes in all the previous races and ended with perfection

**bombboy1252**

Their he is.....in all his dragon glory.

**djdutton**

DE are very cool looking and have great background, only downside is that theyre an expensive army. Just try looking out for deals on ebay or ask around the local game store to see if anyone is selling.

**Nitros14**

Unnatural storm clouds gather overhead, blotting out the pale sun and casting a foreboding shadow across the battlefield. From the twilight the chittering of bats and the bestial howls of wolves fill the air. A chill descends over the land, striking dread into the hearts of mortals that dare stand against this nightmarish host.

Packs of Crypt Ghouls bound forwards, devolved cannibals baying like hounds, eager to feast on the flesh of the living. Shambling hordes of Zombies shuffle forward with lurching steps, wisps of green witchfire playing about their limbs and dragging them forward like demented puppets. Their tattered flesh is blotched and rotted, revealing bloodless veins and unbeating hearts, their lifeless eyes staring mindlessly ahead. Some are little more than skeletons while others bear a terrifying resemblance to the recently deceased.

Behind the Zombies rank upon rank of Skeletal Soldiers march resolutely forward, clutching the bronze swords and shields of old, glowing balefires burning within their empty eye sockets. All that they remember of their past lives is faint echoes of battles fought in ages past. All that they feel is the compulsion to fight and obey their masters as they did so many years ago. Mortals who dare stand against the undead horde are confronted with a ghastly apparition, for what soldier could remain unafraid with the vision of his own death lurching towards him?

Called forth from their rest by the magic of the dead, unquiet spirits roam the twilight fog. Their groaning cries pierce the soul and their chilling touch steals the life energy of the living, as if their fingers were daggers made of ice. Writhing with a pulsing nimbus of black energy, Wraiths and Banshees flow amidst the Undead throng, seeking the warmth of mortals. Mortal weapons merely pass through these supernatural horrors and their presence drives the living insane with dread.

Clad in the ancient armour of distant centuries Wights, Grave Guard and Black Knights plucked from their barrow graves march implacably forward, step after step, in a silent mockery of the Knightly Orders of Men. Their weapons are corroded with time and dusty with the years, held together by an evil magic that suffuses their being with an eerie green glow. The mere touch of their blades is enough to snuff out the life of a living man and they are sustained by a seething malevolence powerful enough to ignore blows that would mortally wound a living creature.

Behind these creatures the witchfires of the army highlight the haggard-faced Necromancers cloaked in the skins of men. With their magical urgings bone knits and flesh fuses as the fallen of the shambling Horde stumble back to their feet to resume the advance with lipless moans. The stench of death hangs over the army like a pall.

At the centre of this hideous parody of a Mortal army stands the most powerful and dangerous abomination: the Vampire Lord. It is this nightmare creature whose will has summoned the dead from their graves and it is its will that has bound the army together. Vampires are unbelievably ancient beings. Created 5,000 years before present day by Nagash they embody Necromancy: The magic of the past, of withered flesh and faded times. With unnatural strength, speed and toughness sucked from the souls of their prey the Vampire is a lethal Warrior-Sorceror that strikes a gripping fear into any who confronts it. Seeking dominion over all living things, a Vampire Lord raises its army from ancient battlefields and dusty tombs to overthrow the rule of mortals and reign over the survivors as an undying, merciless Emperor.

Few face the Vampire Counts and survive. The few who do are forever haunted by the memory.

**Amaya**

Cavalry is currently weaker in this edition, so going Cold One heavy might be a bad idea. It really depends on local meta and how much you care about winning. If you enjoy painting and modeling more than the silly metagame, than by all means go Cold One and Dragon heavy, because those look suhweet.

**bombboy1252**

Amaya wrote:Cavalry is currently weaker in this edition, so going Cold One heavy might be a bad idea. It really depends on local meta and how much you care about winning. If you enjoy painting and modeling more than the silly metagame, than by all means go Cold One and Dragon heavy, because those look suhweet.

Not many people play fantasy at my FLGS anyway, so I think I would just be getting an army so that I could look at it, so winning isn't a problem because I probably wont play much sadly :(

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nitros14 wrote:
Unnatural storm clouds gather overhead, blotting out the pale sun and casting a foreboding shadow across the battlefield. From the twilight the chittering of bats and the bestial howls of wolves fill the air. A chill descends over the land, striking dread into the hearts of mortals that dare stand against this nightmarish host.

Packs of Crypt Ghouls bound forwards, devolved cannibals baying like hounds, eager to feast on the flesh of the living. Shambling hordes of Zombies shuffle forward with lurching steps, wisps of green witchfire playing about their limbs and dragging them forward like demented puppets. Their tattered flesh is blotched and rotted, revealing bloodless veins and unbeating hearts, their lifeless eyes staring mindlessly ahead. Some are little more than skeletons while others bear a terrifying resemblance to the recently deceased.

Behind the Zombies rank upon rank of Skeletal Soldiers march resolutely forward, clutching the bronze swords and shields of old, glowing balefires burning within their empty eye sockets. All that they remember of their past lives is faint echoes of battles fought in ages past. All that they feel is the compulsion to fight and obey their masters as they did so many years ago. Mortals who dare stand against the undead horde are confronted with a ghastly apparition, for what soldier could remain unafraid with the vision of his own death lurching towards him?

Called forth from their rest by the magic of the dead, unquiet spirits roam the twilight fog. Their groaning cries pierce the soul and their chilling touch steals the life energy of the living, as if their fingers were daggers made of ice. Writhing with a pulsing nimbus of black energy, Wraiths and Banshees flow amidst the Undead throng, seeking the warmth of mortals. Mortal weapons merely pass through these supernatural horrors and their presence drives the living insane with dread.

Clad in the ancient armour of distant centuries Wights, Grave Guard and Black Knights plucked from their barrow graves march implacably forward, step after step, in a silent mockery of the Knightly Orders of Men. Their weapons are corroded with time and dusty with the years, held together by an evil magic that suffuses their being with an eerie green glow. The mere touch of their blades is enough to snuff out the life of a living man and they are sustained by a seething malevolence powerful enough to ignore blows that would mortally wound a living creature.

Behind these creatures the witchfires of the army highlight the haggard-faced Necromancers cloaked in the skins of men. With their magical urgings bone knits and flesh fuses as the fallen of the shambling Horde stumble back to their feet to resume the advance with lipless moans. The stench of death hangs over the army like a pall.

At the centre of this hideous parody of a Mortal army stands the most powerful and dangerous abomination: the Vampire Lord. It is this nightmare creature whose will has summoned the dead from their graves and it is its will that has bound the army together. Vampires are unbelievably ancient beings. Created 5,000 years before present day by Nagash they embody Necromancy: The magic of the past, of withered flesh and faded times. With unnatural strength, speed and toughness sucked from the souls of their prey the Vampire is a lethal Warrior-Sorceror that strikes a gripping fear into any who confronts it. Seeking dominion over all living things, a Vampire Lord raises its army from ancient battlefields and dusty tombs to overthrow the rule of mortals and reign over the survivors as an undying, merciless Emperor.

Few face the Vampire Counts and survive. The few who do are forever haunted by the memory.

Oooh, I like that passage a lot, very eerie and dark.

**cowpow16**

In that case get somethin you like and more people will get into it.
Fantasy has did own at my gw but there are a few of us hard core guys that keep it alive and when everyone gets sick of the super broken 40k game play they will join us.

Also most people think fantasy is more expensive than 40k but that all depends on the army and points level.

**alex87**

As far as 'sophisticated evil' is concerned, DE's are really the only option in Fantasy... Unless you maybe went for a Lahmian style VCs army.
But in that case it's really just the vampires themselves who are slightly more sophisticated, the rest of the army are such silly billys!

**Vermillion**

cowpow16 wrote:In that case get somethin you like and more people will get into it.
Fantasy has did own at my gw but there are a few of us hard core guys that keep it alive and when everyone gets sick of the super broken 40k game play they will join us.

Also most people think fantasy is more expensive than 40k but that all depends on the army and points level.

Yep, just like in 40k an orc army will cost you a lot more than a daemons army. Sit down and make a list for an army and compare it to an average 40k list you will be surprised. Especially space marines, who were meant to be the "cheap" option. Think my friends TK army cost him less than an average SM army in the end, but then 3 sphinx kits gave him the 3 sphinxes and 3 or 4 other things by the time he finished getting blood out the plastics converting them up

I think the big offputting thing to most would be model count and having to paint them. It takes a certain insanity.. I mean dedication to do a skaven or goblin army by hand

**Grey Templar**

bombboy1252 wrote:I'm going to make a dark elves army with lots of the guys on raptors.........their friggen COOL, oh and the dragon

Then you might want Lizardmen,

"yo dawg, I heard you like Dinosaurs so i put Dinosaurs on your Dinosaurs so you can be a Dinosaur while riding a Dinosaur"

Lizardmen have rock hard combat troops, good magic from Slann, and some big monsters. The Slann taught the Elves how to use magic, they are that powerful.

BTW, Ogres were the last race created by the Old Ones. Which shows they learned from their mistakes in all the previous races and ended with perfection

Duke, you are my Hero

**cowpow16**

I was surprised myself how far I got with what I spent I mean 72 chaos warriors knights hound and some marauders plus a used hellcannon for just under 300 I spent way more than that on my blood angles.
But yes it's not super crazy expensive and a ranked up army looks so much cooler than a fully set up 40k army as well.

**Grey Templar**

It does depend. you generally get more models with Fantesy boxs then you do in 40k. a troops box usually has 12-16 models and costs the same as a 40k box that has 5-10.

For even more Nerd Rage look at the LotR models. for around the same price as the above boxs you get 24 models(granted, no command models and zero equipment options)

**Vermillion**

And most of the boxes do have stuff you'll always find useful, the WoC batallion is a great buy several times for example to have a really tough core.
My only problem is the TK one, 8 extra skeletons means how much extra in money?! :( Oh well, thats them off the list for the future when they're not FotM

**DukeRustfield**

Also, much like 40K, everyone CAN be evil (or good).

Lizardmen are pretty scorched earth. If the Great Plan or a prophesy calls for them to kill a bunch of innocent people, they will. Like Mazdamundi is currently trying to purge the world of non Old One races and get everyone back to "where they belong."

Empire is like the Imperium.

Dwarfs are greedy. And they're little bitches when it comes to grudges. If your great great great great grandfather pissed them off, they'll come and kill your kids.

High Elves are snobby and think little of other races.

AKA there's always a reason for every race to fight each other. And you can presumably model your army to be the meaner subset of that race.

**cowpow16**

You left out the best pars DE ad chaos are always evil no way around it tht hate everyone all te time.

**Vermillion**

Nah chaos can be good as some amount is needed to stop stagnation ala Michael Moorcock

**bombboy1252**

Grey Templar wrote:"yo dawg, I heard you like Dinosaurs so i put Dinosaurs on your Dinosaurs so you can be a Dinosaur while riding a Dinosaur"

I lol'd SO hard, I think I found something for my sig.

**angelshade00**

DukeRustfield wrote:
Dwarfs are greedy. And they're little bitches when it comes to grudges. If your great great great great grandfather pissed them off, they'll come and kill your kids.

Just HAD to exalt this!

Actually lol'd hard enough to wake my roomies next door.