DreamForge Games - Official News and Rumors Thread (KS coming March 25, pg 191)

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**Yonan**

Building sprues (ie. plastic)? Would it make more sense to go for pre-printed cardboard instead, especially at the size of leviathans? I really like my Deadzone tiles but there are some very good arguments for going cardboard instead, especially given the great 3d feel Battle Systems managed to pull out of theirs, rather than the rigid flat surfaces from for example DZC.

That tank would have substantial 3rd-party usage and do wonders for filling out the Eisenkern range into a cohesive force usable in a variety of games. Regardless, I'll likely be in for any of it given the quality you go for Mark and am still happy to back via kickstarter as I'm confident you'll have a much more accurate production estimate now.

**Kid_Kyoto**

NoseGoblin wrote:
Indeed, lots of things on the plate.

Buildings are the first after the KS completion, even if the Shadokesh are not yet available it will allow for combat between Eisenkern households in "Bad War" a term describing the Swiss Reisläufer and German Landsknecht fighting against each other as mercenaries for apposing sides. It would also allow you to use your Leviathans, which need tall cover in order to play an enjoyable game.

Then the Shadsokesh core infantry.

Then off to a Shadokesh walker or the StuG or light walker or another Shadokesh infantry such as the Ferals.... and onwards from there to fill out the Shadokesh and smaller releases for the Eisenkern such as an accessory set for the Valkir.

First off I'm eagerly awaiting my APCs, and anything else you come up with.

But is terrain really what people are crying out for now?

Pegasus' gothic terrain is cheap, good looking and as easy as legos. From what I've seen Dust's buildings are also ready to go pretty fast and Mantic's stuff is also pretty cool.

I know I'd much rather see light infantry/scavagers/rebels/wastelanders or some non-Nazi looking human faction than terrain.

Of course I have tubs of Pegasus stuff in storage so I'm not exactly normal.

**shasolenzabi**

I wonder what the tracked STuGs woulduse for power then as they would not need to do the hover tricks?

I also like the looks of the Protectorate's Russian styling.

**ski2060**

They would still use the Capacitor/battery, it would just give them a longer run time I would imagine.

**Jehan-reznor**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
NoseGoblin wrote:
Indeed, lots of things on the plate.

Buildings are the first after the KS completion, even if the Shadokesh are not yet available it will allow for combat between Eisenkern households in "Bad War" a term describing the Swiss Reisläufer and German Landsknecht fighting against each other as mercenaries for apposing sides. It would also allow you to use your Leviathans, which need tall cover in order to play an enjoyable game.

Then the Shadsokesh core infantry.

Then off to a Shadokesh walker or the StuG or light walker or another Shadokesh infantry such as the Ferals.... and onwards from there to fill out the Shadokesh and smaller releases for the Eisenkern such as an accessory set for the Valkir.

First off I'm eagerly awaiting my APCs, and anything else you come up with.

But is terrain really what people are crying out for now?

Pegasus' gothic terrain is cheap, good looking and as easy as legos. From what I've seen Dust's buildings are also ready to go pretty fast and Mantic's stuff is also pretty cool.

I know I'd much rather see light infantry/scavagers/rebels/wastelanders or some non-Nazi looking human faction than terrain.

Of course I have tubs of Pegasus stuff in storage so I'm not exactly normal.

Living in a tiny Japanese Apartment, scenery is always the lowest item on my list , or rather it is not on there

**Yonan**

^^ cardboard terrain is a huge plus for this, packs down to nothing.

**sonofruss**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
NoseGoblin wrote:
Indeed, lots of things on the plate.

Buildings are the first after the KS completion, even if the Shadokesh are not yet available it will allow for combat between Eisenkern households in "Bad War" a term describing the Swiss Reisläufer and German Landsknecht fighting against each other as mercenaries for apposing sides. It would also allow you to use your Leviathans, which need tall cover in order to play an enjoyable game.

Then the Shadsokesh core infantry.

Then off to a Shadokesh walker or the StuG or light walker or another Shadokesh infantry such as the Ferals.... and onwards from there to fill out the Shadokesh and smaller releases for the Eisenkern such as an accessory set for the Valkir.

First off I'm eagerly awaiting my APCs, and anything else you come up with.

But is terrain really what people are crying out for now?

Pegasus' gothic terrain is cheap, good looking and as easy as legos. From what I've seen Dust's buildings are also ready to go pretty fast and Mantic's stuff is also pretty cool.

I know I'd much rather see light infantry/scavagers/rebels/wastelanders or some non-Nazi looking human faction than terrain.

Of course I have tubs of Pegasus stuff in storage so I'm not exactly normal.

I would like some non Gothic Sci-Fy buildings personally and the background buildings look nice to me. And I might even top KK in Peg buildings.

**Azazelx**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

But is terrain really what people are crying out for now?
Pegasus' gothic terrain is cheap, good looking and as easy as legos. From what I've seen Dust's buildings are also ready to go pretty fast and Mantic's stuff is also pretty cool.
I know I'd much rather see light infantry/scavagers/rebels/wastelanders or some non-Nazi looking human faction than terrain.
Of course I have tubs of Pegasus stuff in storage so I'm not exactly normal.

The Terrain bit is somewhat head-scratching for me as well. I guess if he can get it cheap enough, it's got a broad buying audience.

So as not to derail the thread, could you PM me with any details on how you got the Pegasus stuff while not in the US?

**shasolenzabi**

So yeah, 1 box of close comabt Valkir for a command squad
1 Heavy weapon team as support
20 man squad, and a platoon

all 3 boxes makes a 30man platoon of potent troops

**Theophony**

I don't know, I like me some terrain. I have over 200 necromunda bulkheads and four or five sets of the cardboard to go with it. If the scenery looks like the buildings in marks pics then

. The dust buildings are nice, but I like the more modular use of the necromunda stuff. I also have a deadzone battlezone, but hate the clips and the fortified pieces are a pain. Pegasus are nice too, I have some of that, but would like something more to marks style.

Also wondering if the Shadowkesh ferals will operate like swarms?

**Azazelx**

sonofruss wrote:

I would like some non Gothic Sci-Fy buildings personally and the background buildings look nice to me. And I might even top KK in Peg buildings.

Take another look - the buildings in Mark's render don't exactly say "sci-fi" in any sense. As I said though, I'd buy if they looked good and are reasonably priced, and the Stug looks good. But at the moment, I don't care about any of that far-off stuff. I'm more interested in just getting the items in production delivered than speculating on what might come down the road. WGF's continued "China Says No" attitude on things like a coupon, or buying additional items and having them shipped from China makes me less and less tolerant of their interminable delays.

**Mathieu Raymond**

Did you do "ship when complete", Aza?

**Azazelx**

No. I paid for three waves. So their nice little gesture of shipping Wave 2 items to everyone for free did little for me. Didn't annoy me at the time, but as time drags on...

I'm waiting until I have all my stuff in hand to paint it at once. As the months of delays have turned into years, my interest in 40k - which is what these are forhas turned into a trickle and my main focus has turned elsewhere.

I don't believe we'll get anything in hand this year since WGF's promises aren't worth the gak they're written in, which will mean about 18 months since we received anything at all.

And Mark. For all the "blame me, not China" that you've attempted to defend them with does nothing for all of the "China Says No" they've come out with with regards to a coupon or the possibility of shipping extra stuff from China instead of exorbitant shipping from the US.

**Barzam**

Geez, last time I looked at this thread was when the table showing the KS status was put up. Now there's talk of buildings and pictures of flying STUGs!

**Yonan**

Some info on the STUGs from comments on Marks blog:

Thank you everyone! I will go into greater detail next month on the StuG's but I thought I would give you some information on them to help fill out the fluff portion:

This is my take on how the floating StuG works; It uses the same technology that is found in the ‘not hydraulics’ of the Leviathans (TR Bands) these are essentially pull push force generators encased in a tube to help direct the force. Far faster than a liquid system and far stronger, an overloaded reactor scan stiffen a Leviathan and tear it apart by supplying too much energy to the field generators.

The shield on the Crusader uses a field generator to supply a cone of push, the closer you are to the shield, the more concentrated and the stronger the force. The shield is used to slow incoming projectiles and deflect slow moving projectiles as well as pushing back lighter targets or assisting in buffeting away larger ones.

The StuG uses the same technology to provide lift, when it is low to the ground the cone for each TR band is more concentrated but less power is supplied to the banks of repulsors. In low flight the 40 or so TR bands act as invisible legs, alternating power and direction to provide a firm push from the surface and make micro movements possible as well as stabilization for firing the main gun. The normal operation height is 1 to 1.5 meters, this provides the vehicle a stable/firm/stiff platform and would indeed crush anyone under the vehicle.

The vehicle is capable of short hops as seen in the render, the TR bands are overcharged and it provides a cone of force that diminishes and widens the higher the vehicle moves from a surface, essentially distributing the weight over a vastly larger area. Someone under a StuG at full lift would feel the force, possibly by knocked over/down but not be crushed by it, those on the edge of the field would be pushed away from its center, knocked aside. At full lift the tank can get about 4 to 5 meter hops, it would be incapable of firing its gun as the lift no longer has firm stability, relying on the six small jets on the rear of the StuG for propulsion. The ride at this height is soft and not very responsive, this is why the StuG is banking, to gain a push surface from the debris and building.

Running the field at full strength uses a LOT of energy, the StuG does not have a reactor, it is simply too small to house one and upsizing an armored vehicle for a reactor adds too much weight, making the propulsion system impossible with Eisenkern technology. The StuG can operate for about two to three days on its capacitors before needing a recharge. If it spent its time at full vertical thrust, it would likely destroy the TR bands and the operational time would be hours instead of days.

Its size and relatively thin armor make it an ideal candidate for a grav like assist, much larger and a vehicle would suffer from failures and limited operational times. It was made for the role of supporting the Valkir and has a similar recharge requirement as the Valkir power armor.

A Leviathan can be used as a recharge point but that is done only when the APC is not present as it is a huge target while standing around acting as a service station and it is also far too expensive a piece of equipment to tie up in this function.

For the Eisenkern, the APC is the center of their ground based military. Four hundred year of conflict with the Shadokesh has left its mark on the equipment and tactics. People, soldiers and citizens are the most important asset. The death toll is in the billions and the Eisenkern are slowly dying off as a people due to attrition. They find themselves more often in a defensive role, evacuating cities or protecting population hubs as the Shadokesh have a ‘burnt earth’ policy in regards to biological infestations.

The APC and its variants, are not just troop carriers but logistics and supply and recharge points for lighter vehicles and power armor, all the way down to the lowly Stormtrooper and their augmented armor. The APC is more heavily armored than the StuG, their importance on the field is reflective of this. No APC=No power, no supplies, no logistics and no rescue/support stations for trapped citizens.

**Alpharius**

Yeah, we had some of that here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3960/503411.page#7156701

but it is on the last page now, so thanks for re-posting!

**Yonan**

Doh!

**shasolenzabi**

Makes it kind of important that the Hanomags hide where possible to avoid loss of energy resupplies for the STuGs and and such. Loki/Odin/rocket battery version also likely to be decent armored resupply points, and the hanomag carrying, spare ammo/food/water.

The STuG's are merely a weapon platform.

Of course those Valkirs look tough too!

**catharsix**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
NoseGoblin wrote:
Indeed, lots of things on the plate.

Buildings are the first after the KS completion, even if the Shadokesh are not yet available ...

First off I'm eagerly awaiting my APCs, and anything else you come up with.

But is terrain really what people are crying out for now?

...

I have to echo the Vice Principal's concern here. I think people have been begging for Shadokesh stuff from almost the start of the Kickstarter - I'd like to add my opinion that models should take precedence over terrain, at least until we get a little bit for another faction. My personal opinion, but one that I'm pretty sure many people share.

-C6

**BobtheInquisitor**

Why do they need to be a dying people? Can't they just care about their soldiers' lives 'just because'?

**Yonan**

Why do they need to not be a dying people? ; p

**HisDivineShadow**

I can only hypothesize that throwing in the terrain to the line up is kind of busy work.

While we might initially go "why not do Shadokesh". Itb doesn't mean they aren't. As hopefully they have a very distinct, alien look, and currently unknown dynamics, it stands to reason their mold split phase might take a while.

Far more then say....buildings. which will probably only take an intern or two.

**Bolognesus**

That, and buildings are likely to have a pretty solid market in sci-fi gaming regardless of whether a potential buyer cares for Dreamforge in particular.

**Tannhauser42**

For all we know, Wargames Factory may have asked him to design some buildings, perhaps they want to get into the terrain market, too.

**inqscott**

That is a good point Tannhauser42, given the deal they gave Mark it's probably something he has to do to keep them happy. Because I think that Mark must know that an enemy force is sorely needed and the stug would sell well too. It's must be part of a prearranged deal.

**Gallahad**

"Mark, our engineers are bleeding out of their ears again, please make flat buildings with no flowy cloth or legs or moving parts! K Thanks xo xo Wei Kee"

**Mathieu Raymond**

Agreed that they are comparatively simple to make. And the style he goes for in his image would look great for anything from Malifaux to modern to near future on Earth.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Yonan wrote:
Why do they need to not be a dying people? ; p

Because that's been done to death.

**ski2060**

They're not the only dying people though. The Shadokesh are advancing on several fronts, killing everything in their way.

Human, Dhar-Hazier.. doesn't matter to the Shadokesh. All fuel for the fires.

**NoseGoblin**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Yonan wrote:
Why do they need to not be a dying people? ; p

Because that's been done to death.

Indeed, it has… But it is a simple fact of war, there is a winner and a loser, this is a war game not a game based around gardening and Smurfs painting rainbows

The Eisenkern are the buffer for all of the human factions against the Shadokesh and have been for four hundred years, so I would not assume they are doing well.

As to the buildings. You do not need a StuG to play the game, you do need terrain that blocks line of sight from 8.5” tall models. I have no interest in playing a game where two sides line up, move once and unload. As Robey finalizes the Alpha rules, I need to ready with the foundation, working terrain is part of that foundation.
When I started this many years ago, I knew what I wanted and how I wanted it to play the terrain is as important to the game quality as the miniatures themselves. The buildings have a Bladerunner feel 1920- 1940 architecture with pipes and greebles to sci-fi them, it fits with the Eisenkern esthetic but can be easily switched up to play WWII, contemporary zombie, etc by simply swapping out the bits packs.